One of my players is playing as a fighter-cavalier. He's playing it fun and silly like a daring swashbuckler (I know, rogues can BE swashbucklers), and he's looking to multiclass. He likes the idea of a bard/fighter, but he's intimidated by spells. He also likes the idea of the aforementioned rogue/fighter.
So the question is this: has anybody got some fun ideas for multiclassing on a level 5 cavalier going onto level 6 and beyond?
The first question is what are his ability scores? Those will determine what he might multiclass into, and if he'll be any good at it. And be careful, if you don't plan a multiclass from the beginning, it can often be executed poorly and make the character not very effective.
In general, I'd say fighter/rogue is often a solid combination. But in this case. His only real subclass power so far is unwavering mark, which wants you to stand up there next to an enemy. This contrasts with the rogue maneuver of hitting hard and getting back out. So he'd have some abilities working against each other.
Beyond that a fighter cleric can be good. Also paladin, although it will get odd since the extra attack features from different classes don't stack, so he could go to pally 4, but pally 5 would be a dead level. But then level 6 pallys is where one of their best abilities come on, so it might be worth the nothing at level 5.
Also, if he's looking at it and the multiclass doesn't quite work. He could stick with fighter one more level to get the next asi, then boost a score that will help the mc work better, and take the second class at level 7.
Does he want to multiclass because he's finding fighter boring? You could always let him switch to a subclass with more active choices, like battlemaster, rune knight or echo knight.
No same DM will allow a 3e feat in 5e, it’s a very different game. Also, that’s not what the feat did/does. There has never been a feat that lets you get two levels every time you level up. That feat just let you switch back to pally if you took a level in another class, which mattered in 3e. But, since this is a very different game, it’s no longer relevant or useful.
No same DM will allow a 3e feat in 5e, it’s a very different game. Also, that’s not what the feat did/does. There has never been a feat that lets you get two levels every time you level up. That feat just let you switch back to pally if you took a level in another class, which mattered in 3e. But, since this is a very different game, it’s no longer relevant or useful.
The advice in this case is good but it's not strange for DMs to retrofit feats or abilities from other games or past editions.
Really need more information. Current ability scores, weapon used, feat or ASI's used? Does he have a 13 Charisma, if so a Swords Bard using the bardic inspiration as designed for Swords bard could be a lot of fun.
Rogue could work with cavalier, particularly if you allow mounts in your game. Cavalier's third level feature makes them solid mounted combatants. Pick up the mounted combatant feat on top of that... The character then gets advantage whenever mounted and attacking an unmounted creature smaller than their mounts (mounts must be at least large). That means that fighter/rogue will get advantage on, at least, medium and smaller unmounted targets, which will allow them to apply sneak attacks to those targets provided that they are using a finese weapon (which, based on your description of your player's character, seems likely).
The rogue could also add some fun to that sort of character's skillset with expertise (particularly, a smarmy cavalier's attempts to persuade or deceive).
That’s true. They can also ride huge or gargantuan mounts. My point was simply that being mounted with the mounted combatant feat gives the character additional ways to gain advantage to land their sneak attack.
That’s true. They can also ride huge or gargantuan mounts. My point was simply that being mounted with the mounted combatant feat gives the character additional ways to gain advantage to land their sneak attack.
Yeah. Good point. But if you’re mounted, you’ve got an adjacent ally, the mount, so sneak attack is always going to trigger. Of course, advantage is always better than not.
Is that true? I’m asking because the mounted combatant feat is pretty specific about stating that advantage is against creatures smaller than your mount. And mounts don’t get to take the attack action while they are mounted (they are limited to dash, disengage, and dodge for their action). I don’t think that they would count as an adjacent ally for the rogue in that case (but maybe a DM call?).
I guess a DM might rule otherwise, but I can't imagine it not being an adjacent ally. The definition of ally is pretty broad. If the fighter stood there and took the dodge action, the rogue would still get the benefit. If the monster was, for some reason, immune to the fighter's attacks but not the rogue's, it would still count as an adjacent ally.
The advantage part, definitely you need the feat to get advantage. But adjacent ally, I'd certainly say the mount fits the description.
To the OP's question, I think you are saying that you agree that rogue would be an interesting multi-class for a swashbuckling cavalier type (because it offers some built-in ways to get sneak attacks)?
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One of my players is playing as a fighter-cavalier. He's playing it fun and silly like a daring swashbuckler (I know, rogues can BE swashbucklers), and he's looking to multiclass. He likes the idea of a bard/fighter, but he's intimidated by spells. He also likes the idea of the aforementioned rogue/fighter.
So the question is this: has anybody got some fun ideas for multiclassing on a level 5 cavalier going onto level 6 and beyond?
The first question is what are his ability scores? Those will determine what he might multiclass into, and if he'll be any good at it. And be careful, if you don't plan a multiclass from the beginning, it can often be executed poorly and make the character not very effective.
In general, I'd say fighter/rogue is often a solid combination. But in this case. His only real subclass power so far is unwavering mark, which wants you to stand up there next to an enemy. This contrasts with the rogue maneuver of hitting hard and getting back out. So he'd have some abilities working against each other.
Beyond that a fighter cleric can be good. Also paladin, although it will get odd since the extra attack features from different classes don't stack, so he could go to pally 4, but pally 5 would be a dead level. But then level 6 pallys is where one of their best abilities come on, so it might be worth the nothing at level 5.
Also, if he's looking at it and the multiclass doesn't quite work. He could stick with fighter one more level to get the next asi, then boost a score that will help the mc work better, and take the second class at level 7.
Does he want to multiclass because he's finding fighter boring? You could always let him switch to a subclass with more active choices, like battlemaster, rune knight or echo knight.
str 15 con 16 dex 15 wis 9 int 8 cha 10
1-5 cavalier
6-8 barbarian: totem
9-20 cavalier
suggest items: giants belt, great axe +3
No same DM will allow a 3e feat in 5e, it’s a very different game.
Also, that’s not what the feat did/does. There has never been a feat that lets you get two levels every time you level up. That feat just let you switch back to pally if you took a level in another class, which mattered in 3e. But, since this is a very different game, it’s no longer relevant or useful.
The advice in this case is good but it's not strange for DMs to retrofit feats or abilities from other games or past editions.
Really need more information. Current ability scores, weapon used, feat or ASI's used? Does he have a 13 Charisma, if so a Swords Bard using the bardic inspiration as designed for Swords bard could be a lot of fun.
Rogue could work with cavalier, particularly if you allow mounts in your game. Cavalier's third level feature makes them solid mounted combatants. Pick up the mounted combatant feat on top of that... The character then gets advantage whenever mounted and attacking an unmounted creature smaller than their mounts (mounts must be at least large). That means that fighter/rogue will get advantage on, at least, medium and smaller unmounted targets, which will allow them to apply sneak attacks to those targets provided that they are using a finese weapon (which, based on your description of your player's character, seems likely).
The rogue could also add some fun to that sort of character's skillset with expertise (particularly, a smarmy cavalier's attempts to persuade or deceive).
To clarify, mounts don’t have to be large. They have to be one size larger than the rider. Small creatures can use medium mounts.
That’s true. They can also ride huge or gargantuan mounts. My point was simply that being mounted with the mounted combatant feat gives the character additional ways to gain advantage to land their sneak attack.
Yeah. Good point. But if you’re mounted, you’ve got an adjacent ally, the mount, so sneak attack is always going to trigger. Of course, advantage is always better than not.
Is that true? I’m asking because the mounted combatant feat is pretty specific about stating that advantage is against creatures smaller than your mount. And mounts don’t get to take the attack action while they are mounted (they are limited to dash, disengage, and dodge for their action). I don’t think that they would count as an adjacent ally for the rogue in that case (but maybe a DM call?).
I guess a DM might rule otherwise, but I can't imagine it not being an adjacent ally. The definition of ally is pretty broad. If the fighter stood there and took the dodge action, the rogue would still get the benefit. If the monster was, for some reason, immune to the fighter's attacks but not the rogue's, it would still count as an adjacent ally.
The advantage part, definitely you need the feat to get advantage. But adjacent ally, I'd certainly say the mount fits the description.
To the OP's question, I think you are saying that you agree that rogue would be an interesting multi-class for a swashbuckling cavalier type (because it offers some built-in ways to get sneak attacks)?