I'm curious as to what other people's thoughts are on the fighter's new Tactical Master feature.
Level 9: Tactical Master
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
I originally understood it as being able to choose a different property when you choose to make an attack, but before you roll to hit. However, I have seen multiple content creators interpret it to be that you can switch it out at any point. This interpretation would make masteries like Graze a lot better by guaranteeing that you will always be able to use a mastery whether you hit or not. While I would definitely like the second option more, I want to try to stick with what was intended.
I'd have thought it was a decision made before, or as, you make your attack. Usually features intended to be flexible in their timing tend to have it stated that you can make the decision after the success or failure is determined - or, at least, that's been my recollection?
I think most people will interpret their own way, but I'd like to know the intention behind it myself, as well. Does the choice to change Masteries end once dice are rolled?
There are also features that are more restrictive with when you can make a decision. Unfortunately, the only one I can pull from memory right now is the previous version of the Tactical Master feature back in UA5 when it was Weapon Adept. It had specific wording stating that the choice between which two masteries you could use had to be made before you knew if the attack hit or not.
All things considered, it won't matter that much for any other mastery property other than Graze. It would just be nice to have a little less ambiguity.
If your weapon has Graze, Tactical Master allows you to switch with Push/Sap/Slow after you know if you hit or miss.
Tactical Master says you can switch when you make the attack. The PHB defines "making an attack" and "making an attack roll" separately. The definition for "making an attack" has three steps, encompassing picking a target, determining modifiers, making the attack roll, rolling damage, and applying special effects.
I have a different question related to Tactical Master interpreting. In my character's DnDB character sheet, the Tactical Master fighter class feature is described this way:
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
Tactical Master: Push: 1 Action
Tactical Master: Sap: 1 Action
Tactical Master: Slow: 1 Action
Tactical Master: 1 Action
What is all this about? If it said 1 Attack and you were thereby saying you could substitute one of the alternative masteries for no more than one attack per turn, I'd get that. If you're trying to describe Action Surge conditions, and saying that in that event the additional action could let you use a new mastery property that you didn't use in the previous action(s) then I'd get that also. This seems to be saying something else but I don't have a clue what that might be. It just seems like fuzzy language or thinking or both, and needs clarification. Am I alone in this?
is an artifact of how the feature is implemented on D&D Beyond's character sheet. It's not part of the rules and isn't really relevant.
The class feature allows you to use Push, Sap, or Slow instead of a weapon's normal mastery property if it's one you have access to. This can be applied to any attack with such a weapon, including multiple times per turn and multiple times per action.
In normal English, 'when' refers to a specific point in time. That 'when' is 'when you make an attack'. Not 'midway through the entire process of attacking'. It doesn't really make any sense to let a Fighter 'double dip' masteries in the manner described. They get one and one only Mastery on that particular attack, chosen before they roll the dice.
In normal English, 'when' refers to a specific point in time. That 'when' is 'when you make an attack'. Not 'midway through the entire process of attacking'. It doesn't really make any sense to let a Fighter 'double dip' masteries in the manner described. They get one and one only Mastery on that particular attack, chosen before they roll the dice.
That’s very logical, but there really isn’t anything in the actual rules to support it. All of the mastery properties under discussion either can only be used on a miss (Graze) or can only be used on a hit (the other three) and there’s nothing in the rules stating that you have to choose one to use before you know whether you hit or miss.
How about double wielding Ligth Hammers wit the Nick property: Main attack main hand: Sap Main Attack Off hand: Nick
Could you then use Extra Attack to apply 2 other properties to the same weapons, so you'd get: Extra Attack main hand: Slow Bonus Action Off Hand: Push
or would, for the extra attack, the properties remain Sap and Nick in this case?
How about double wielding Ligth Hammers wit the Nick property: Main attack main hand: Sap Main Attack Off hand: Nick
Could you then use Extra Attack to apply 2 other properties to the same weapons, so you'd get: Extra Attack main hand: Slow Bonus Action Off Hand: Push
or would, for the extra attack, the properties remain Sap and Nick in this case?
Sure. Again, there’s nothing saying you have to use the same weapon mastery for all the attacks you make in the same action or the same turn.
To amplify this point further, using different swings, aiming at different points on the defender's body, (and therefore employing different techniques to evoke "mastery effects") is probably more common in real battles than trying to use the same mode of attack over and over again. If you don't vary the line of attack somewhat for almost every swing, it is exceedingly easy to defend against with parries, ducks, ripostes, and such.
How about double wielding Ligth Hammers wit the Nick property: Main attack main hand: Sap Main Attack Off hand: Nick
Could you then use Extra Attack to apply 2 other properties to the same weapons, so you'd get: Extra Attack main hand: Slow Bonus Action Off Hand: Push
or would, for the extra attack, the properties remain Sap and Nick in this case?
You can only ever get one additional attack from the Light property. If you're using a Nick weapon, you can take it during your Attack action. If you've replaced Nick with something else, you must take it during your Bonus Action.
So presuming you haven't reached level 11 (and 2+ extra attacks), you could get 2 Attack Action attacks with Slow/Push/Sap and one Bonus Action attack with Slow/Push/Sap or you could get 2 Attack Action attacks with Slow/Push/Sap and 1 Attack Action attack with Nick.
that is why the extra attack off hand, I specify it's a Bonus Action, not part of the main attack, like I did with the first set, where I did use the Nick property.
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I'm curious as to what other people's thoughts are on the fighter's new Tactical Master feature.
Level 9: Tactical Master
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
I originally understood it as being able to choose a different property when you choose to make an attack, but before you roll to hit. However, I have seen multiple content creators interpret it to be that you can switch it out at any point. This interpretation would make masteries like Graze a lot better by guaranteeing that you will always be able to use a mastery whether you hit or not. While I would definitely like the second option more, I want to try to stick with what was intended.
Let me know how you think it should work.
I'd have thought it was a decision made before, or as, you make your attack. Usually features intended to be flexible in their timing tend to have it stated that you can make the decision after the success or failure is determined - or, at least, that's been my recollection?
I think most people will interpret their own way, but I'd like to know the intention behind it myself, as well. Does the choice to change Masteries end once dice are rolled?
Eternal #DnD Dungeon Master
There are also features that are more restrictive with when you can make a decision. Unfortunately, the only one I can pull from memory right now is the previous version of the Tactical Master feature back in UA5 when it was Weapon Adept. It had specific wording stating that the choice between which two masteries you could use had to be made before you knew if the attack hit or not.
All things considered, it won't matter that much for any other mastery property other than Graze. It would just be nice to have a little less ambiguity.
If your weapon has Graze, Tactical Master allows you to switch with Push/Sap/Slow after you know if you hit or miss.
Tactical Master says you can switch when you make the attack. The PHB defines "making an attack" and "making an attack roll" separately. The definition for "making an attack" has three steps, encompassing picking a target, determining modifiers, making the attack roll, rolling damage, and applying special effects.
I have a different question related to Tactical Master interpreting. In my character's DnDB character sheet, the Tactical Master fighter class feature is described this way:
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
This stuff:
is an artifact of how the feature is implemented on D&D Beyond's character sheet. It's not part of the rules and isn't really relevant.
The class feature allows you to use Push, Sap, or Slow instead of a weapon's normal mastery property if it's one you have access to. This can be applied to any attack with such a weapon, including multiple times per turn and multiple times per action.
pronouns: he/she/they
In normal English, 'when' refers to a specific point in time. That 'when' is 'when you make an attack'. Not 'midway through the entire process of attacking'. It doesn't really make any sense to let a Fighter 'double dip' masteries in the manner described. They get one and one only Mastery on that particular attack, chosen before they roll the dice.
That’s very logical, but there really isn’t anything in the actual rules to support it. All of the mastery properties under discussion either can only be used on a miss (Graze) or can only be used on a hit (the other three) and there’s nothing in the rules stating that you have to choose one to use before you know whether you hit or miss.
pronouns: he/she/they
How about double wielding Ligth Hammers wit the Nick property:
Main attack main hand: Sap
Main Attack Off hand: Nick
Could you then use Extra Attack to apply 2 other properties to the same weapons, so you'd get:
Extra Attack main hand: Slow
Bonus Action Off Hand: Push
or would, for the extra attack, the properties remain Sap and Nick in this case?
Sure. Again, there’s nothing saying you have to use the same weapon mastery for all the attacks you make in the same action or the same turn.
pronouns: he/she/they
To amplify this point further, using different swings, aiming at different points on the defender's body, (and therefore employing different techniques to evoke "mastery effects") is probably more common in real battles than trying to use the same mode of attack over and over again. If you don't vary the line of attack somewhat for almost every swing, it is exceedingly easy to defend against with parries, ducks, ripostes, and such.
You can only ever get one additional attack from the Light property. If you're using a Nick weapon, you can take it during your Attack action. If you've replaced Nick with something else, you must take it during your Bonus Action.
So presuming you haven't reached level 11 (and 2+ extra attacks), you could get 2 Attack Action attacks with Slow/Push/Sap and one Bonus Action attack with Slow/Push/Sap or you could get 2 Attack Action attacks with Slow/Push/Sap and 1 Attack Action attack with Nick.
that is why the extra attack off hand, I specify it's a Bonus Action, not part of the main attack, like I did with the first set, where I did use the Nick property.