The sim-wish does work as advertised. The only reason it doesn’t is if the dm decides they want game balance to remain. And the main thing doesn’t really depend on subclass either. True polymorph and shapechange are unfightable. The top ones simply are better than average at surviving to do it or at going first and doing it before the fighter reacts. The illusionist isn’t better than most at either. I can’t really add to the magic jar debate though.
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The sim-wish does work as advertised. The only reason it doesn’t is if the dm decides they want game balance to remain. And the main thing doesn’t really depend on subclass either. True polymorph and shapechange are unfightable. The top ones simply are better than average at surviving to do it or at going first and doing it before the fighter reacts. The illusionist isn’t better than most at either. I can’t really add to the magic jar debate though.
You can assert all you want that possessing a creature is the same as being the creature. I don’t want to get into a “is not!” “is too!” argument with you.
But, I don’t think you’ve fully thought through that. For one thing, if you become the person you possess, that means you can’t be exorcised. After all, if you are whom you possess, then there is no longer two separate beings.
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don’t need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
Answer: You should read it… and also learn what a requirement is and what the phrase “The spell simply takes effect,” means as of right now you seem unable to comprehend what wish does.
This is not a blank slate as you are treating it.
Answer: No I’m not it treating it as a blank slate. Wish at it’s core replicates a spell but that spell is now instantaneous, 1 action, just like wish and it also requires no components (including costly ones), you don’t need the spell prepared or even have it on your spell list those are some of the things it alters it doesn’t change the range of the duplicated spell or make it do things it didn’t already do all it does is make you be able to cast the spell and have it “simply take effect.”
It doesn't mean that range can be ignored such that you can Dominate a Person who is anywhere in the multiverse away from you.
Answer: Range is not a requirement and I never said that wish ignores range (also see above with response 2).
It doesn't mean that all environmental restrictions are removed such that you can target that person even though that person is in an antimagic zone.
Answer: Um yeah no duh wish is still magic so wish cannot suddenly work on antimagic field unless a DM says so.
It doesn't mean that you can remove all target restrictions such that you can cast Dominate Person on a Plane. "Any requirements" doesn't actually mean any requirements. If it did, then you could Sequester the entire Abyss with a 9th level spell.
Answer: It is “any requirements in that spell“ not just any requirements as you say. As it has to be in the spell for the requirement to be ignored so you can cast the spell.
What it actually refers to is things like class, components, whether you know the target, etc. Parameters are not requirements.
Answer: Already addressed most of this in my second response so won’t say much to this.
Anyways I’ll say it again Wish has an duration of instantaneous, a casting time of one action, it allows the wizard to duplicate a spell of 8th level or lower, it enables that the spell can just “simply take effect,” and that you don’t need to meet any requirements of that spell even costly components.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
You just acknowledged that range is not a requirement of the spell. So, on what basis are you saying that range is not a.requirement, but casting time is? Break it down for me. Don’t just hand wave it or blow smoke. Don’t just assert things without evidence or even justification. Explain to me why you think range is not a requirement, but casting time is.
Wren, I didn’t confirm or deny any point of view on magic jar. Wish says the spell “takes effect,” so there is reason casting time would be ignored, but not a reason range would be ignored, because range is part of the effect but casting time is what happens before the effect. Deathknight knows the effect of wish.
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Wren, I didn’t confirm or deny any point of view on magic jar. Wish says the spell “takes effect,” so there is reason casting time would be ignored, but not a reason range would be ignored, because range is part of the effect but casting time is what happens before the effect. Deathknight knows the effect of wish.
Why do you think casting time is a requirement, but range isn’t. Why do you think “the spell just happens” would apply to one and not the other?
Anyways what I’m trying to say with magic jar you become the creature as your soul inhabits it and you control it.
No, you don’t become the creature. You _control_ the creature. That is not the same thing.
If you became the creature, then you’d have its class levels.
Answer: Read the Spell Magic Jar it specifically omits class features and you keep your mental ability scores and personality and such.
“Once you possess a creature's body, you control it. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature, though you retain your alignment and your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you can't use any of its class features.”
And when you possess a creature you have that creatures stats for all intents and purposes and are treated as that creature and as such are that creature.
Think of possession as if it is a condition and exorcise as the cure since while you are that creature you have the possession condition but if someone cures/removes that condition you cease to be that creature anymore hope that helps you understand.
But as King says the strategy works as I said and while you may have a hard time understanding it it does work by RAW even though I could understand why a DM might have their gripes with it as it is very strong but that is not the discussion we are having.
Anyways what I’m trying to say with magic jar you become the creature as your soul inhabits it and you control it.
No, you don’t become the creature. You _control_ the creature. That is not the same thing.
If you became the creature, then you’d have its class levels.
Answer: Read the Spell Magic Jar it specifically omits class features and you keep your mental ability scores and personality and such.
“Once you possess a creature's body, you control it. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature, though you retain your alignment and your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you can't use any of its class features.”
And when you possess a creature you have that creatures stats for all intents and purposes and are treated as that creature and as such are that creature.
Think of possession as if it is a condition and exorcise as the cure since while you are that creature you have the possession condition but if someone cures/removes that condition you cease to be that creature anymore hope that helps you understand.
But as King says the strategy works as I said and while you may have a hard time understanding it it does work by RAW even though I could understand why a DM might have their gripes with it as it is very strong but that is not the discussion we are having.
It doesn’t work by RAW, though you are able to use it if your GM permits.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
You just acknowledged that range is not a requirement of the spell. So, on what basis are you saying that range is not a.requirement, but casting time is? Break it down for me. Don’t just hand wave it or blow smoke. Don’t just assert things without evidence or even justification. Explain to me why you think range is not a requirement, but casting time is.
Answer: I’ll say this Wish once more the casting time is 1 action, duration Instantaneous, and a range of self. And since the wizard replicate the spell so you use it’s range It’s not that hard to understand.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
You just acknowledged that range is not a requirement of the spell. So, on what basis are you saying that range is not a.requirement, but casting time is? Break it down for me. Don’t just hand wave it or blow smoke. Don’t just assert things without evidence or even justification. Explain to me why you think range is not a requirement, but casting time is.
Answer: I’ll say this Wish once more the casting time is 1 action, duration Instantaneous, and a range of self. And since the wizard replicate the spell so you use it’s range It’s not that hard to understand.
Wish has a casting time because it doesn’t always duplicate a spell.
When it does duplicate a spell, it uses the spell’s features such as range and casting time. Yes, this means that if you duplicate a fireball with a Wish, you aren’t required to drop it at your feet.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
You just acknowledged that range is not a requirement of the spell. So, on what basis are you saying that range is not a.requirement, but casting time is? Break it down for me. Don’t just hand wave it or blow smoke. Don’t just assert things without evidence or even justification. Explain to me why you think range is not a requirement, but casting time is.
Answer: I’ll say this Wish once more the casting time is 1 action, duration Instantaneous, and a range of self. And since the wizard replicate the spell so you use it’s range It’s not that hard to understand.
Wish has a casting time because it doesn’t always duplicate a spell.
The casting time applies for spell replication. The casting time is a requirement because that is how long you must spend to cast the spell. Range is simply part of the effect of the spell.
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The casting time applies for spell replication. The casting time is a requirement because that is how long you must spend to cast the spell. Range is simply part of the effect of the spell.
Didn't you claim that this is RAW? I'd like a page number and direct quote.
“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
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“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
So, why do you ignore casting time and not range?
The casting time is in the spell: wish takes 1 action regardless of how you use it.
So if you use spell replication you replicate that spell in one action.
“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
So, why do you ignore casting time and not range?
The casting time is in the spell: wish takes 1 action regardless of how you use it.
So if you use spell replication you replicate that spell in one action.
“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
So, why do you ignore casting time and not range?
But if it doesn't take effect then and there, then there is no guarantee that it takes effect, like I don't think any other spell has language like that and if so, it's probably an action casting
If it it's a spell with a 24 hour casting time and you die...then it doesn't take effect If it's a one day spell like Clone then it probably doesn't "Simply take effect" because so much can happen over the course of the day
There is no direct quote, but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the casting time is ignored, and some evidence that range stays the same. The spell takes effect when the casting time is done. The wish only keeps the effect of the spell, and does not actually cast it. This is also how it ignores components. Does simulacrum take effect at the start or end of the casting time?
The range is part of the “effect” of the spell. Everything is kept except for the components, casting time, and other requirements to cast the spell. Once you’ve finished casting it, that’s the effect. Wish replicates that, including ranges.
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“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
So, why do you ignore casting time and not range?
But if it doesn't take effect then and there, then there is no guarantee that it takes effect, like I don't think any other spell has language like that and if so, it's probably an action casting
If it it's a spell with a 24 hour casting time and you die...then it doesn't take effect If it's a one day spell like Clone then it probably doesn't "Simply take effect" because so much can happen over the course of the day
This guy gets it.
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Anyways what I’m trying to say with magic jar you become the creature as your soul inhabits it and you control it.
No, you don’t become the creature. You _control_ the creature. That is not the same thing.
If you became the creature, then you’d have its class levels.
The sim-wish does work as advertised. The only reason it doesn’t is if the dm decides they want game balance to remain. And the main thing doesn’t really depend on subclass either. True polymorph and shapechange are unfightable. The top ones simply are better than average at surviving to do it or at going first and doing it before the fighter reacts. The illusionist isn’t better than most at either. I can’t really add to the magic jar debate though.
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You can assert all you want that possessing a creature is the same as being the creature. I don’t want to get into a “is not!” “is too!” argument with you.
But, I don’t think you’ve fully thought through that. For one thing, if you become the person you possess, that means you can’t be exorcised. After all, if you are whom you possess, then there is no longer two separate beings.
Answer: You should read it… and also learn what a requirement is and what the phrase “The spell simply takes effect,” means as of right now you seem unable to comprehend what wish does.
Answer: No I’m not it treating it as a blank slate.
Wish at it’s core replicates a spell but that spell is now instantaneous, 1 action, just like wish and it also requires no components (including costly ones), you don’t need the spell prepared or even have it on your spell list those are some of the things it alters it doesn’t change the range of the duplicated spell or make it do things it didn’t already do all it does is make you be able to cast the spell and have it “simply take effect.”
Answer: Range is not a requirement and I never said that wish ignores range (also see above with response 2).
Answer: Um yeah no duh wish is still magic so wish cannot suddenly work on antimagic field unless a DM says so.
Answer: It is “any requirements in that spell“ not just any requirements as you say. As it has to be in the spell for the requirement to be ignored so you can cast the spell.
Answer: Already addressed most of this in my second response so won’t say much to this.
Anyways I’ll say it again Wish has an duration of instantaneous, a casting time of one action, it allows the wizard to duplicate a spell of 8th level or lower, it enables that the spell can just “simply take effect,” and that you don’t need to meet any requirements of that spell even costly components.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
So I’m wondering where in that whole spell description of Wish where do you get the impression of “it still keeps the casting time” when the casting of Wish is one action and the spell is instantaneous so after you cast it there is nothing else you need to do.
You just acknowledged that range is not a requirement of the spell. So, on what basis are you saying that range is not a.requirement, but casting time is? Break it down for me. Don’t just hand wave it or blow smoke. Don’t just assert things without evidence or even justification. Explain to me why you think range is not a requirement, but casting time is.
Wren, I didn’t confirm or deny any point of view on magic jar. Wish says the spell “takes effect,” so there is reason casting time would be ignored, but not a reason range would be ignored, because range is part of the effect but casting time is what happens before the effect. Deathknight knows the effect of wish.
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Why do you think casting time is a requirement, but range isn’t. Why do you think “the spell just happens” would apply to one and not the other?
Answer: Read the Spell Magic Jar it specifically omits class features and you keep your mental ability scores and personality and such.
“Once you possess a creature's body, you control it. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature, though you retain your alignment and your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you can't use any of its class features.”
And when you possess a creature you have that creatures stats for all intents and purposes and are treated as that creature and as such are that creature.
Think of possession as if it is a condition and exorcise as the cure since while you are that creature you have the possession condition but if someone cures/removes that condition you cease to be that creature anymore hope that helps you understand.
But as King says the strategy works as I said and while you may have a hard time understanding it it does work by RAW even though I could understand why a DM might have their gripes with it as it is very strong but that is not the discussion we are having.
It doesn’t work by RAW, though you are able to use it if your GM permits.
Answer: I’ll say this Wish once more the casting time is 1 action, duration Instantaneous, and a range of self. And since the wizard replicate the spell so you use it’s range It’s not that hard to understand.
Wish has a casting time because it doesn’t always duplicate a spell.
When it does duplicate a spell, it uses the spell’s features such as range and casting time. Yes, this means that if you duplicate a fireball with a Wish, you aren’t required to drop it at your feet.
I’m still waiting for you to answer my question.
The casting time applies for spell replication. The casting time is a requirement because that is how long you must spend to cast the spell. Range is simply part of the effect of the spell.
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Didn't you claim that this is RAW? I'd like a page number and direct quote.
“The spell simply takes effect” in the wish spell.
That’s the quote.
Wish takes 1 action to cast, and it replicates the spell. “The spell simply takes effect” then and there so the casting time gets removed. The range doesn’t have any reason to be affected by replicating the spell so it isn’t.
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It does not say "the spell simply takes effect then and there." It says, "the spell simply takes effect." There is no wording which says that casting time is ignored, but range isn't. My PC is in Avernus. The target is on the 7th plane of hell. I want to Dominate him. I use Wish to duplicate Dominate Person. The spell simply takes effect. Nothing in that statement says that range isn't ignored.
So, why do you ignore casting time and not range?
The casting time is in the spell: wish takes 1 action regardless of how you use it.
So if you use spell replication you replicate that spell in one action.
https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/spells/wish/
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/106819/when-wish-is-used-to-emulate-a-spell-what-is-the-casting-time
I'm still waiting for any of you to give me a page number and direct quote which _actually_ says to use Wish' casting time, but not Wish' range.
But if it doesn't take effect then and there, then there is no guarantee that it takes effect, like I don't think any other spell has language like that and if so, it's probably an action casting
If it it's a spell with a 24 hour casting time and you die...then it doesn't take effect If it's a one day spell like Clone then it probably doesn't "Simply take effect" because so much can happen over the course of the day
There is no direct quote, but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the casting time is ignored, and some evidence that range stays the same. The spell takes effect when the casting time is done. The wish only keeps the effect of the spell, and does not actually cast it. This is also how it ignores components. Does simulacrum take effect at the start or end of the casting time?
The range is part of the “effect” of the spell. Everything is kept except for the components, casting time, and other requirements to cast the spell. Once you’ve finished casting it, that’s the effect. Wish replicates that, including ranges.
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This guy gets it.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands