I am new to D&D and was looking at potential characters to play. Ignoring multiclass options and looking at Eldritch Knight on it's own, I thought this would be a cool first character. I can front line for the party and have access to some spell casting but can also bypass some of the more confusing mechanics of a full caster class. This all seems really cool, but some of the mechanics seem like they add unnecessary friction to gameplay.
Fighter base class gives extra attack, but it reads as "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.". In addition, when you take the "attack action" on your turn then "The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.". This is super cool, but fights against Eldritch Knight. This is because Fighters get more than one extra attack when they take the attack action on their turn.
EKs have War Magic - "Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.". From the way I am interpreting this, then if I decide to do a cantrip on my turn, which I think I would like to do to fit the war mage theme (booming blade or green flame blade), then I am missing out on my potential damage output compared to taking the attack action. This is obviously not an issue at 7th level, but has negative synergy with the base fighter class when I reach 11th or 20th level.
So, at level 7 War magic upgrades my bonus attack from 2 attacks to 1 cantrip and 1 attack. Neat! However, at 11th level I am making a choice between 1 cantrip and 1 attack and 3 attacks per turn, which means War magic is now bad? I guess this may not be true mathematically based on the cantrip gaining more damage dice at certain levels, but depending on the weapon damage die and the cantrip damage die, this might be a wash. (I am re-reading how Booming blade works and actually think War magic is better than I thought when I wrote this but want to leave this anyway)
Finally, Eldrith Strike - "At 10th level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature's resistance to your spells. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn." - this seems really cool, but then I realize that it doesn't really work the way I would like it to considering War Magic. Not only that, it is only for it's saving throw which does not seem to matter for Turn 1: I cantrip and miss, I use my bonus action to attack the creature, which means that it has disadvantage if I cast a spell against it next turn. Best case scenario I cast my spell or cantrip against it on Turn 2 when I otherwise would have missed. This seems cool but in a lot of gameplay scenarios, that creature might not be alive on my next turn, which means this buff is a wasted opportunity. I guess this is theoretically really cool if I find a way to split my 2 attacks at lvl 10 or 3 attacks at lvl 11 against multiple targets. Then on my next turn I cast an AoE spell against the multiple targets to have a near guarantee that I do not waste my spell slot?
The best case scenario of alternating actions to use turn one as set up and turn two as a combo finisher is cool, but I worry about my ability to actually attack multiple targets and I worry about the targets still being alive on turn 2 (except in a boss encounter). For most ease of gameplay, it seems like War magic should allow me to attack or use my multi attack to cast the cantrip as a bonus action rather than one additional attack after a cantrip. This means on turn 1 I hit, then because I have hit the target with an attack they now have disadvantage which means my cantrip or spell is nearly guaranteed to hit, which might be broken but fits the half caster theme much better. That or it would be cool if my role in the party was to "hex" or sabotage enemies so that my allies spell abilities are more powerful or more likely to hit. For example, Eldritch Strike could apply to a back liners spell and could be balanced by the debuff being consumed by the next spell effect that hits the creature, not just my spells and not a debuff on all spell attacks against them in the round (I hit with a spell, the wizard hits with a spell, and a druid hits with a spell, but whoever hits first would consume the debuff).
I don't know how good it is and still think there is unnecessary friction with how certain mechanics work together between the fighter base class and the Eldritch Knight subclass. It seems like your bonus action is a hot commodity with multiple mechanics wanting to be used on your bonus action, but you only get one bonus action per turn. It almost seems like I want to be a support class for the full spell casters in the party making their effects more potent, but then most of my skill effects only apply to my actions against the target I debuff but I am not sure that I will be able to consume my debuff on the target given that they might die at the end of the round or I might need to change targets.
I still think it is a cool class, but just see some gaps in how my combat loop might happen compared to how well the skills of another class mechanically work together inside of the class and subclass and between my role and the party.
I’d add to wagnarokkr, when you play an EK, you’re usually better off using your spells for defense. Your int score typically isn’t all that high, so your spell attack bonus and your save DC is low. It’s good with cantrips. But most of the time you want spell slots on things like shield or blur — defensive spells or other buffs that don’t require an attack roll.
Od also add, if you are looking to be a melee type who also throws around spells, but doesn’t want to deal with lots of spells, you might also consider paladin or hexblade warlock.
I'll check out the 2024 version. I had settled on Paladin - it doesn't seem like I smite / cast spells as often as I thought a half caster would be, but I am still having fun with it from a storytelling / narrative perspective. The EK kit didn't seem "bad" but I just couldn't figure out how to make it mesh because it seemed like some of the features were fighting against itself or fighting against how I thought I would play the class.
That makes a lot more sense. I genuinely thought I would be using my cantrips / spells more so than being a melee martial class that uses spells for defense. Reading it as spells being a one off buff to dodge an attack or spell makes more sense.
I still think that some of the features should be triggerable by allies or that I could do my cantrip as a bonus action - that way my booming blade is more likely to hit on turn 1 than not.
Just going to say with 2024 rules if you take the guide background for shillelagh you can go all in on intelligence capping that so your spells are more effective than normal for a eldritch knight and sword and board fighters usually have the bonus action to spare to cast it in the beginning of a fight. You might have to wait until 4th to get warcaster to use it effectively. But that is also where your int jumps to 18 and starts to make a difference. Sure in this case your sword is either a club or staff and not a sword but I think that can be pretty slick.
As an EK, your mileage on cantrips is probably going to vary. I experimented recently in a one-shot, and honestly, used my cantrips more than I planned on at the level we played. I had firebolt (from infernal tiefling) and lightning lure (from magic initiate: wizard). In our first combat, I couldn't get to melee range because it was a melee heavy party in a narrow hallway. I stood in the back and threw firebolts. While less than ideal, it was better than nothing. After that, I found use in lightning lure to pull things closer to me. I'd expected to use it mostly to get enemies off squishies, but that was never an issue. There were a few occasions where I was not able to move close enough to attack with my melee weapon in a round, but I was able to move close enough to lightning lure things and pull them into melee range. I was planning to balrog a baddie off a short ledge he was on, but the party dealt with him before I could do that. It was a pity because I thought that was going to be cool. Now, whacking something with lightning lure or firebolt was not as good whacking things with my greatsword, but they offered me flexibility to engage when I otherwise might not have been able to.
That's really the key to eldritch knight; it adds tools to your kit. if you try to build it as a pocket wizard, you'll be sorely disappointed. If you choose spells that augment your ability to perform as a melee combatant, you can do some awesome things. Both the cantrips I selected were useful, and not in ways I'd imagined having to use them. Would I give up a greatsword attack to cast either of them? No, I would not. They were both very handy to have in instances where I was not able to make a greatsword attack, and both gave me options that our other melee characters simply did not have. I got to make attacks in rounds that with just my greatsword I would not have been able to. The utility of the spells I picked felt very good to use.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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I am new to D&D and was looking at potential characters to play. Ignoring multiclass options and looking at Eldritch Knight on it's own, I thought this would be a cool first character. I can front line for the party and have access to some spell casting but can also bypass some of the more confusing mechanics of a full caster class. This all seems really cool, but some of the mechanics seem like they add unnecessary friction to gameplay.
Fighter base class gives extra attack, but it reads as "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.". In addition, when you take the "attack action" on your turn then "The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.". This is super cool, but fights against Eldritch Knight. This is because Fighters get more than one extra attack when they take the attack action on their turn.
EKs have War Magic - "Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.". From the way I am interpreting this, then if I decide to do a cantrip on my turn, which I think I would like to do to fit the war mage theme (booming blade or green flame blade), then I am missing out on my potential damage output compared to taking the attack action. This is obviously not an issue at 7th level, but has negative synergy with the base fighter class when I reach 11th or 20th level.
So, at level 7 War magic upgrades my bonus attack from 2 attacks to 1 cantrip and 1 attack. Neat! However, at 11th level I am making a choice between 1 cantrip and 1 attack and 3 attacks per turn, which means War magic is now bad? I guess this may not be true mathematically based on the cantrip gaining more damage dice at certain levels, but depending on the weapon damage die and the cantrip damage die, this might be a wash. (I am re-reading how Booming blade works and actually think War magic is better than I thought when I wrote this but want to leave this anyway)
Finally, Eldrith Strike - "At 10th level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature's resistance to your spells. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn." - this seems really cool, but then I realize that it doesn't really work the way I would like it to considering War Magic. Not only that, it is only for it's saving throw which does not seem to matter for Turn 1: I cantrip and miss, I use my bonus action to attack the creature, which means that it has disadvantage if I cast a spell against it next turn. Best case scenario I cast my spell or cantrip against it on Turn 2 when I otherwise would have missed. This seems cool but in a lot of gameplay scenarios, that creature might not be alive on my next turn, which means this buff is a wasted opportunity. I guess this is theoretically really cool if I find a way to split my 2 attacks at lvl 10 or 3 attacks at lvl 11 against multiple targets. Then on my next turn I cast an AoE spell against the multiple targets to have a near guarantee that I do not waste my spell slot?
The best case scenario of alternating actions to use turn one as set up and turn two as a combo finisher is cool, but I worry about my ability to actually attack multiple targets and I worry about the targets still being alive on turn 2 (except in a boss encounter). For most ease of gameplay, it seems like War magic should allow me to attack or use my multi attack to cast the cantrip as a bonus action rather than one additional attack after a cantrip. This means on turn 1 I hit, then because I have hit the target with an attack they now have disadvantage which means my cantrip or spell is nearly guaranteed to hit, which might be broken but fits the half caster theme much better. That or it would be cool if my role in the party was to "hex" or sabotage enemies so that my allies spell abilities are more powerful or more likely to hit. For example, Eldritch Strike could apply to a back liners spell and could be balanced by the debuff being consumed by the next spell effect that hits the creature, not just my spells and not a debuff on all spell attacks against them in the round (I hit with a spell, the wizard hits with a spell, and a druid hits with a spell, but whoever hits first would consume the debuff).
I don't know how good it is and still think there is unnecessary friction with how certain mechanics work together between the fighter base class and the Eldritch Knight subclass. It seems like your bonus action is a hot commodity with multiple mechanics wanting to be used on your bonus action, but you only get one bonus action per turn. It almost seems like I want to be a support class for the full spell casters in the party making their effects more potent, but then most of my skill effects only apply to my actions against the target I debuff but I am not sure that I will be able to consume my debuff on the target given that they might die at the end of the round or I might need to change targets.
I still think it is a cool class, but just see some gaps in how my combat loop might happen compared to how well the skills of another class mechanically work together inside of the class and subclass and between my role and the party.
You may want to look into the new version of the Eldritch Knight from the 2024 Player's Handbook, which solves some of these issues.
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I’d add to wagnarokkr, when you play an EK, you’re usually better off using your spells for defense. Your int score typically isn’t all that high, so your spell attack bonus and your save DC is low. It’s good with cantrips. But most of the time you want spell slots on things like shield or blur — defensive spells or other buffs that don’t require an attack roll.
Od also add, if you are looking to be a melee type who also throws around spells, but doesn’t want to deal with lots of spells, you might also consider paladin or hexblade warlock.
I'll check out the 2024 version. I had settled on Paladin - it doesn't seem like I smite / cast spells as often as I thought a half caster would be, but I am still having fun with it from a storytelling / narrative perspective. The EK kit didn't seem "bad" but I just couldn't figure out how to make it mesh because it seemed like some of the features were fighting against itself or fighting against how I thought I would play the class.
That makes a lot more sense. I genuinely thought I would be using my cantrips / spells more so than being a melee martial class that uses spells for defense. Reading it as spells being a one off buff to dodge an attack or spell makes more sense.
I still think that some of the features should be triggerable by allies or that I could do my cantrip as a bonus action - that way my booming blade is more likely to hit on turn 1 than not.
Just going to say with 2024 rules if you take the guide background for shillelagh you can go all in on intelligence capping that so your spells are more effective than normal for a eldritch knight and sword and board fighters usually have the bonus action to spare to cast it in the beginning of a fight. You might have to wait until 4th to get warcaster to use it effectively. But that is also where your int jumps to 18 and starts to make a difference. Sure in this case your sword is either a club or staff and not a sword but I think that can be pretty slick.
As an EK, your mileage on cantrips is probably going to vary. I experimented recently in a one-shot, and honestly, used my cantrips more than I planned on at the level we played. I had firebolt (from infernal tiefling) and lightning lure (from magic initiate: wizard). In our first combat, I couldn't get to melee range because it was a melee heavy party in a narrow hallway. I stood in the back and threw firebolts. While less than ideal, it was better than nothing. After that, I found use in lightning lure to pull things closer to me. I'd expected to use it mostly to get enemies off squishies, but that was never an issue. There were a few occasions where I was not able to move close enough to attack with my melee weapon in a round, but I was able to move close enough to lightning lure things and pull them into melee range. I was planning to balrog a baddie off a short ledge he was on, but the party dealt with him before I could do that. It was a pity because I thought that was going to be cool. Now, whacking something with lightning lure or firebolt was not as good whacking things with my greatsword, but they offered me flexibility to engage when I otherwise might not have been able to.
That's really the key to eldritch knight; it adds tools to your kit. if you try to build it as a pocket wizard, you'll be sorely disappointed. If you choose spells that augment your ability to perform as a melee combatant, you can do some awesome things. Both the cantrips I selected were useful, and not in ways I'd imagined having to use them. Would I give up a greatsword attack to cast either of them? No, I would not. They were both very handy to have in instances where I was not able to make a greatsword attack, and both gave me options that our other melee characters simply did not have. I got to make attacks in rounds that with just my greatsword I would not have been able to. The utility of the spells I picked felt very good to use.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha