at 10th level, an battle master fighters superiority dice turn into d10s. Just to be clear, does this change all superiority dice i have, including ones granted by feats, fighting styles and potentially other classes if wizards decide to give other classes superiority dice, or only to superiority dice granted specifically by the battle master class? in other words an 10th level battle master fighter with the martial adept feat has 4d10 + 1d6 superiority dice, not 5d10, right?
A Battle Master with no additional superiority dice from feats, etc..., will have 5 at level 10.
Anyway, as to whether the Martial Adapt feat die is counted with or separately from the Battle Master dice, it is unclear. The D&D Beyond character sheet counts them separately if that's any indication. So I would guess they should be separate.
It would have been nice if Wizards had added a little clarification on this and other places in the PHB. For example:
At 10th level, your superiority dice (from this martial archetype) turn into d10s.
You have martial training that allows you to perform special combat maneuvers. You gain the following benefits:
You learn two maneuvers of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype in the fighter class. If a maneuver you use requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver's effects, the saving throw DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).
If you already have superiority dice, you gain one more; otherwise, you have one superiority die, which is a d6. This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
The later (2017?) errata changed it to say:
You have martial training that allows you to perform special combat maneuvers. You gain the following benefits:
You learn two maneuvers of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype in the fighter class. If a maneuver you use requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver's effects, the saving throw DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).
You gain one superiority die, which is a d6 (this die is added to any supe-riority dice you have from another source). This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
That leads me to believe that the d6 granted by this feat is separate.
You have martial training that allows you to perform special combat maneuvers. You gain the following benefits:
You learn two maneuvers of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype in the fighter class. If a maneuver you use requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver's effects, the saving throw DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).
If you already have superiority dice, you gain one more; otherwise, you have one superiority die, which is a d6. This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
The later (2017?) errata changed it to say:
You have martial training that allows you to perform special combat maneuvers. You gain the following benefits:
You learn two maneuvers of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype in the fighter class. If a maneuver you use requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver's effects, the saving throw DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).
You gain one superiority die, which is a d6 (this die is added to any supe-riority dice you have from another source). This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
That leads me to believe that the d6 granted by this feat is separate.
neat, but that is not the question i asked, and in fact the question i asked went under the assumption that we had several d8's before plus a single d6, what i asked was if the feature at tenth level increases the size of all your superiority dice, even that sepperate d6's?
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
and yet at the same time that feels kinda wrong, right? feels kinda weird to just do that?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
I meant that. What makes me sure is the fact that the made a specific errata separating the d6 from the rest of the pool of dice.
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
I meant that. What makes me sure is the fact that the made a specific errata separating the d6 from the rest of the pool of dice.
IamSposta is right. The superiority dice you gain from the Battle Master archetype are d8s to begin with. They become d10s and later on d12s as you gain levels as a fighter. Also their number will increase by gaining levels as a fighter. The superiority dice you gain from the Martial Adept feature will always be 1d6 which is just added to any pool of dice you have.
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
I meant that. What makes me sure is the fact that the made a specific errata separating the d6 from the rest of the pool of dice.
IamSposta is right. The superiority dice you gain from the Battle Master archetype are d8s to begin with. They become d10s and later on d12s as you gain levels as a fighter. Also their number will increase by gaining levels as a fighter. The superiority dice you gain from the Martial Adept feature will always be 1d6 which is just added to any pool of dice you have.
yes, clearly the intent by the game designers is for the feat granted superiorty dice to be unaffected by improved combat superiority, but that is not at all made clear by the rules as written currently
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
I meant that. What makes me sure is the fact that the made a specific errata separating the d6 from the rest of the pool of dice.
IamSposta is right. The superiority dice you gain from the Battle Master archetype are d8s to begin with. They become d10s and later on d12s as you gain levels as a fighter. Also their number will increase by gaining levels as a fighter. The superiority dice you gain from the Martial Adept feature will always be 1d6 which is just added to any pool of dice you have.
yes, clearly the intent by the game designers is for the feat granted superiorty dice to be unaffected by improved combat superiority, but that is not at all made clear by the rules as written currently
That’s because they were originally intended to be affected, but then they changed their minds and did a half-assed job with the errata. They only errataed the feat, not the subclass feature.
yes, clearly the intent by the game designers is for the feat granted superiorty dice to be unaffected by improved combat superiority, but that is not at all made clear by the rules as written currently
That’s because they were originally intended to be affected, but then they changed their minds and did a half-assed job with the errata. They only errataed the feat, not the subclass feature.
Apparently they changed their mind back (or at least Crawford has):
“If you're a Battle Master fighter and take the Martial Adept feat, the superiority die from the feat improves when you gain the Improved Combat Superiority feature, which intentionally makes no distinction between a die you get from the class and a die you get from the feat.”
I must be the crazy one here. The text text that is making the rest of you think that it's clearly seperate makes me think that it's clearly not. It says that's added to your existing pool, indicating that is no different than any other superiority dice... To me that reads that it'll be treated like any existing superiority dice you may already have, otherwise I wouldn't expect them to talk about it as a pool.
If it's added to the pool of your existing dice, and your battlemaster feature says that your dice are d8's, I find it to be pretty clear that the added dice is also a d8 or d10 (depending on level)
You gain one superiority die, which is a d6 (this die is added to any superiority dice you have from another source). This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.
You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.
At 10th level, your superiority dice turn into d10s. At 18th level, they turn into d12s.
So... If you are a Battle Master and get the Martial Adept feat, you gain 1d6 and add it to your pool of d8s. There is no discussion here. If you put a normal potato into a sack of sweet potatoes it doesn't become a sweet potato all of a sudden. Same thing with dollar bills, if that is easier to understand. The value of 1 dollar bill doesn't increase when you put it into your wallet filled with 5 dollar bills. Although that would be awesome ^^
The strange thing here is that according to the wording of the Improved Combat Superiority feature all your superiority dice are turned into d10s or d12s. At this point, the 1d6 from the Martial Adept feat suddenly becomes a bigger sweet potato... I mean a 10 dollar bill... I mean 1d10/1d12. So your sack/wallet of superiority dice becomes magical at 10th level, turning all the sweet superiority dice you get into bigger, more delicious dollar bills!
I hope this finally clears up the confusion. In my opinion, it is a design flaw to make this so complicated. They could have just made the d6 from the feat into a d8 and nobody would have asked this question.
And yes, it seems WOTC are also uncertain, how to tread this subject. In my last post, I was certain that only the d8s increase, but according to the wording of the subclass feature, all superiority dice are affected by Improved Combat Superiority. This is because by adding the 1d6 of the feat into the pool of your d8s, it also becomes one of your superiority dice.
Wow, if what Crawford says is what's supposed to happen, then they REALLY need to clean up the wording of the Battle Master, Martial Adept feat, and Superior Technique fighting style.
Does advantage of disadvantage that was applied to the roll, apply to an superiority dice added to that roll?
If i have disadvantage on stealth checks, do i roll with disadvantage on the dice roll when i use ambush?
No, and no.
If you have “disadvantage on your next attack against a creature” that would only apply to the d20 you roll “to hit” that creature with an attack. Even the damage roll against that creature (presuming you hit) is unaffected by the disadvantage. If you use a Maneuver that would add a Superiority die to either the attack or damage rolls, it is also unaffected by that disadvantage as they are not “the attack roll.”
If your character has “disadvantages on Dexterity (Stealth) checks, then that only applies to d20 roll you make for that character in an attempt to hide.
Advantage and disadvantage only apply to exactly whatever they say they apply to, nothing more.
By strict reading of the RAW would indeed turn it to d10. If you gain a superiority die which is added to your superiority die and that at L10, your superiority die become d10, since the d6 is also your superiority die, then it would be upgraded reading it plainly.
Oh, but wait. It is going to get even more interesting if they keep the Squire and various Order feats in the upcoming Dragonlance setting as providing maneuvers and Superiority Dice since they appear to be trying to separate the Squire dice from the other sources with the line "you can use them only with the maneuver you gain from this feat and with any maneuvers you gain from feats that have this feat as a prerequisite" and their recovery from short or long rest to only a long rest. I interested n seeing where this finally lands.
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at 10th level, an battle master fighters superiority dice turn into d10s. Just to be clear, does this change all superiority dice i have, including ones granted by feats, fighting styles and potentially other classes if wizards decide to give other classes superiority dice, or only to superiority dice granted specifically by the battle master class? in other words an 10th level battle master fighter with the martial adept feat has 4d10 + 1d6 superiority dice, not 5d10, right?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
A Battle Master with no additional superiority dice from feats, etc..., will have 5 at level 10.
Anyway, as to whether the Martial Adapt feat die is counted with or separately from the Battle Master dice, it is unclear. The D&D Beyond character sheet counts them separately if that's any indication. So I would guess they should be separate.
It would have been nice if Wizards had added a little clarification on this and other places in the PHB. For example:
At 10th level, your superiority dice (from this martial archetype) turn into d10s.
The original wording of the feat was as follows:
The later (2017?) errata changed it to say:
That leads me to believe that the d6 granted by this feat is separate.
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neat, but that is not the question i asked, and in fact the question i asked went under the assumption that we had several d8's before plus a single d6, what i asked was if the feature at tenth level increases the size of all your superiority dice, even that sepperate d6's?
or did you mean with "the d6 granted by this feat is sepperate" that the d6 will not transform at 10th level, and in that case what makes you so shure? it is after all still in your pool of superiority dice, and the feature seemingly makes no distinction between diffrent sizes of superiority dice, right? it says "your superiority dice turn into d10's", void of any clarification, it really does seem that it will affect all of your superiority dice does it not?
and yet at the same time that feels kinda wrong, right? feels kinda weird to just do that?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I meant that. What makes me sure is the fact that the made a specific errata separating the d6 from the rest of the pool of dice.
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IamSposta is right. The superiority dice you gain from the Battle Master archetype are d8s to begin with. They become d10s and later on d12s as you gain levels as a fighter. Also their number will increase by gaining levels as a fighter. The superiority dice you gain from the Martial Adept feature will always be 1d6 which is just added to any pool of dice you have.
yes, clearly the intent by the game designers is for the feat granted superiorty dice to be unaffected by improved combat superiority, but that is not at all made clear by the rules as written currently
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That’s because they were originally intended to be affected, but then they changed their minds and did a half-assed job with the errata. They only errataed the feat, not the subclass feature.
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Apparently they changed their mind back (or at least Crawford has):
“If you're a Battle Master fighter and take the Martial Adept feat, the superiority die from the feat improves when you gain the Improved Combat Superiority feature, which intentionally makes no distinction between a die you get from the class and a die you get from the feat.”
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/1250815333331382274?s=21
I must be the crazy one here. The text text that is making the rest of you think that it's clearly seperate makes me think that it's clearly not. It says that's added to your existing pool, indicating that is no different than any other superiority dice... To me that reads that it'll be treated like any existing superiority dice you may already have, otherwise I wouldn't expect them to talk about it as a pool.
If it's added to the pool of your existing dice, and your battlemaster feature says that your dice are d8's, I find it to be pretty clear that the added dice is also a d8 or d10 (depending on level)
Feat: Martial Adept
Battle Master Feature: Combat Superiority - Superiority Dice
Battle Master Feature: Improved Combat Superiority
So... If you are a Battle Master and get the Martial Adept feat, you gain 1d6 and add it to your pool of d8s. There is no discussion here. If you put a normal potato into a sack of sweet potatoes it doesn't become a sweet potato all of a sudden. Same thing with dollar bills, if that is easier to understand. The value of 1 dollar bill doesn't increase when you put it into your wallet filled with 5 dollar bills. Although that would be awesome ^^
The strange thing here is that according to the wording of the Improved Combat Superiority feature all your superiority dice are turned into d10s or d12s. At this point, the 1d6 from the Martial Adept feat suddenly becomes a bigger sweet potato... I mean a 10 dollar bill... I mean 1d10/1d12. So your sack/wallet of superiority dice becomes magical at 10th level, turning all the sweet superiority dice you get into bigger, more delicious dollar bills!
I hope this finally clears up the confusion. In my opinion, it is a design flaw to make this so complicated. They could have just made the d6 from the feat into a d8 and nobody would have asked this question.
And yes, it seems WOTC are also uncertain, how to tread this subject. In my last post, I was certain that only the d8s increase, but according to the wording of the subclass feature, all superiority dice are affected by Improved Combat Superiority. This is because by adding the 1d6 of the feat into the pool of your d8s, it also becomes one of your superiority dice.
Wow, if what Crawford says is what's supposed to happen, then they REALLY need to clean up the wording of the Battle Master, Martial Adept feat, and Superior Technique fighting style.
Does advantage of disadvantage that was applied to the roll, apply to an superiority dice added to that roll?
If i have disadvantage on stealth checks, do i roll with disadvantage on the dice roll when i use ambush?
No, and no.
If you have “disadvantage on your next attack against a creature” that would only apply to the d20 you roll “to hit” that creature with an attack. Even the damage roll against that creature (presuming you hit) is unaffected by the disadvantage. If you use a Maneuver that would add a Superiority die to either the attack or damage rolls, it is also unaffected by that disadvantage as they are not “the attack roll.”
If your character has “disadvantages on Dexterity (Stealth) checks, then that only applies to d20 roll you make for that character in an attempt to hide.
Advantage and disadvantage only apply to exactly whatever they say they apply to, nothing more.
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By strict reading of the RAW would indeed turn it to d10. If you gain a superiority die which is added to your superiority die and that at L10, your superiority die become d10, since the d6 is also your superiority die, then it would be upgraded reading it plainly.
Oh, but wait. It is going to get even more interesting if they keep the Squire and various Order feats in the upcoming Dragonlance setting as providing maneuvers and Superiority Dice since they appear to be trying to separate the Squire dice from the other sources with the line "you can use them only with the maneuver you gain from this feat and with any maneuvers you gain from feats that have this feat as a prerequisite" and their recovery from short or long rest to only a long rest. I interested n seeing where this finally lands.