What would you all recommend for cantrips for Eldritch Knight? Currently I'm thinking going Variant Human so was considering Light. But the race may change. Focusing on melee, but thought a ranged cantrip might be nice to have in case obstacles keep me from closing the distance. But I could also just use a crossbow or bow.
There are a few I was thinking, but since I only have 2 to choose from I'm not sure.
Was thinking Toll the Dead as it has a higher damage (if the target is already damaged), but worried that as a save spell it might be harder as I level since target saves will get better.
Ray of Frost or Frostbite for disadvantage or restricting movement.
Chill Touch for necrotic damage. Create Bonfire to deny access to a square and damage, and Firebolt are good choices, but fire gets resisted more.
Was also considering Lightning Lure to damage and draw the enemy closer to me to engage in melee.
And cantrips like Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mending are also good ones I'm considering.
I put aside Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as it doesn't work with Extra Attack from 5th level on.
So of all the good cantrips available, does anyone have advice on what would be good for a melee Eldritch Knight?
What would you all recommend for cantrips for Eldritch Knight? Currently I'm thinking going Variant Human so was considering Light. But the race may change. Focusing on melee, but thought a ranged cantrip might be nice to have in case obstacles keep me from closing the distance. But I could also just use a crossbow or bow.
There are a few I was thinking, but since I only have 2 to choose from I'm not sure.
Was thinking Toll the Dead as it has a higher damage (if the target is already damaged), but worried that as a save spell it might be harder as I level since target saves will get better.
Ray of Frost or Frostbite for disadvantage or restricting movement.
Chill Touch for necrotic damage. Create Bonfire to deny access to a square and damage, and Firebolt are good choices, but fire gets resisted more.
Was also considering Lightning Lure to damage and draw the enemy closer to me to engage in melee.
And cantrips like Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mending are also good ones I'm considering.
I put aside Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as it doesn't work with Extra Attack from 5th level on.
So of all the good cantrips available, does anyone have advice on what would be good for a melee Eldritch Knight?
Booming blade/GFB work really, really well at level 7 because you get the bonus attack. Depending on your setup, it can even be superior to your three attacks at level 11.
Unless you rolled well or want to gimp another important ability, boosting INT is kind of a trap. You get good access to defensive spells - make the most of that. Any full caster will be better at ranged spell attacks. Conversely, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good, and Absorb Elements will be your bread and butter. Those don't need INT at all. Put those points into DEX or STR and con. Even wisdom is better, for the saves.
For ranged attacks, just bond with a spear or another thrown weapon :) You can use your STR instead of INT.
On an EK, you aren't looking for the best spells. You want the best abjuration or evocation spells. And, yes, Shield and Absorb Elements are both good. Shield helps vs. attacks, Absorb vs. AOE. Protection from Evil and Good makes you a beast against many commons opponents.
They are, since at 7th level you get to make a weapon attack as a bonus action after casting a cantrip. If you have a 16 INT (for argument's sake), you can deal weapon damage + 1d8 fire to a target, then 1d8+3 to a second target, then make another weapon attack. That's not a bad setup when you're trying to perform crowd control, especially as it allows you to get some damage onto an enemy that's outside of your weapon's reach. Booming Blade only targets a single enemy, but it can be really useful for locking down an opponent and preventing them from getting past you to a squishier party member.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Keep in mind that magic weapons could make BB and GFB less viable and higher levels. If you want to keep them relevant, Warcaster is a great feat to trigger GFB or BB on an opportunity attack which is really nasty.
One attack cantrip that is often overlooked is shocking grasp. It’s a melee spell attack, but will get advantage against someone in metal armor. Additionally, you take away the target’s reaction.
So, while in general I agree with other posters that shield, absorb elements, and other defensive spells are valuable and don’t require high int, I wanted to give shocking grasp a shout out.
I like the idea of shocking grasp but as a fighter would I be better served attacking.
I always debate between GFB or BB and which would be more useful. Would one be better than the other if I went PAM/Sentinel? I had also considered lightning lure figuring I could pull a target into PAM opportunity attack.
Edit: If I go with GWM instead of PAM would it work with GFB/BB? The feat doesn’t specify when you take the Attack Action.
Following on burnyay’s comment on warcaster feat would lightning lure pull and trigger a OA from polearm master but then warcaster allow the use of GFB or BB (or any other spell that qualifies) instead of just the weapon attack? PAM only says you get an OA when they come within reach and warcaster says you can cast a 1 action spell instead of weapon attack so GFB/BB would qualify. Edit: Although I just realized Lightning Lure only does damage if they are within 5 feet of you
or would GFB be out since it affects more than one target and warcaster says only that target.for a spell?
It all depends on your idea of what "good" means. I see lots of "stupid EK" builds that dump intelligence, but I personally don't like having Eldritch Strike being undermined by that.
For ranged attack spells, I personally like fire bolt or ray of frost. The former has a longer range and can creatively affect the environment, but the latter slows and lets you chase into melee easier.
Create bonfire, frostbite and thunderclap all take advantage of Eldritch Strike and can often be followed up with the bonus action attack.
Light lets you see without needing a torch. Prestidigitation and minor illusion are very versatile in creative hands. Blade ward helps keep you alive in melee and you can follow up with the bonus attack. Gust is niche, but it can break grapples or kick around dropped items at a distance.
Shield is incredibly useful, so you use it all the time - you are constantly getting attacked.
Absorb Energy is nearly useless, at least if you have a single wizard 5th level or greater on your side.
To use Absorb Energy:
Must be one of the weaker damage types
Must NOT have used your shield that round
And the Wizard must NOT have counterespelled.
Basically, Absorb Energy and Featherfall are both "Life savers when you need them once in a lifetime." spells. Yeah, they do great work, but most of the time they are a waste of resources to prepare.
You're assuming that the wizard will want to counterspell the effect, the wizard has a spell slot available to counterspell the effect, and the effect is something that can be counterspelled.
That's great on the first encounter of the day when you're up against an enemy spellslinger.
Doesn't work so well when you've got a black dragon giving you an acid bath or a sorcerer Subtle Spelling a Fireball at you.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I am not saying it isn't useful. I am saying that my personal experience is that Absorb Energy never gets used. Yes, it SHOULD be helpful, but every time I memorized it, did not use it.
I recently fought a Dragon and thought I was going to need it, but nope, did not happen. Mainly because it only protects the caster and if going up against a Dragon you REALLY NEED the rest of your party, so we look for ways to negate it. In this case, we slept near the lair in a Tiny Hut, and the Dragon discovered us before the spell expired. Everyone ran back inside, including me.
I've taken Absorb Energy in several games had had it turn out to be useful each time. And quite frankly, if the GM let the entire party be protected from a dragon's breath weapon by turtling inside Leomond's Tiny Hut, the GM softballed that dragon.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like the idea of shocking grasp but as a fighter would I be better served attacking.
For pure damage, sure. But Shocking Grasp helps your friends move away from enemies without provoking opportunity attacks and against really powerful spellcasters prevents Counterspell.
Absorb Elements is a no-brainer for an Eldritch Knight, Fighters already have high AC and there's tons of things that deal damage of an applicable element that can't be counterspelled. And even when counterspell is an option it's often more cost-effective halve the damage with a 1st level slot than to burn a whole 3rd level slot on stopping the spell.
Shocking grasp is particularly great against enemies with the Reactive trait. I recall fighting evil monks and even a marilith where SG saved everyone's bacon. Purposefully move away to bait an AoO, then punish when it can't block SG.
My EK went with thunderclap. On round one, get in range of as many enemies as possible and hit as many as you can to trigger Eldritch Strike. On your next turn you cycle with the Thunderclap and your chances of connecting go way up. At 11th level, that can be up to 3d6 damage each against 3 enemies with disadvantage (not even counting other enemies that are nearby). Alternate 3 attacks and the cantrip each round and you’ll maximize this damage.
Elemental Adept (Thunder) ups this damage slightly. At level 11 your damage is upped by 0.5 per target, and at 17 it’s upped by 0.67 per target. That sounds trivial but when multiplied over many targets over multiple rounds it adds up quickly.
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What would you all recommend for cantrips for Eldritch Knight? Currently I'm thinking going Variant Human so was considering Light. But the race may change. Focusing on melee, but thought a ranged cantrip might be nice to have in case obstacles keep me from closing the distance. But I could also just use a crossbow or bow.
There are a few I was thinking, but since I only have 2 to choose from I'm not sure.
Was thinking Toll the Dead as it has a higher damage (if the target is already damaged), but worried that as a save spell it might be harder as I level since target saves will get better.
Ray of Frost or Frostbite for disadvantage or restricting movement.
Chill Touch for necrotic damage. Create Bonfire to deny access to a square and damage, and Firebolt are good choices, but fire gets resisted more.
Was also considering Lightning Lure to damage and draw the enemy closer to me to engage in melee.
And cantrips like Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mending are also good ones I'm considering.
I put aside Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as it doesn't work with Extra Attack from 5th level on.
So of all the good cantrips available, does anyone have advice on what would be good for a melee Eldritch Knight?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Oh, and is it worth having both absorb elements and shield as 1st level spells since they are both reactions?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Booming blade/GFB work really, really well at level 7 because you get the bonus attack. Depending on your setup, it can even be superior to your three attacks at level 11.
Unless you rolled well or want to gimp another important ability, boosting INT is kind of a trap. You get good access to defensive spells - make the most of that. Any full caster will be better at ranged spell attacks. Conversely, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good, and Absorb Elements will be your bread and butter. Those don't need INT at all. Put those points into DEX or STR and con. Even wisdom is better, for the saves.
For ranged attacks, just bond with a spear or another thrown weapon :) You can use your STR instead of INT.
On an EK, you aren't looking for the best spells. You want the best abjuration or evocation spells. And, yes, Shield and Absorb Elements are both good. Shield helps vs. attacks, Absorb vs. AOE. Protection from Evil and Good makes you a beast against many commons opponents.
I hadn’t thought about protection from evil and good thanks.
I hadn’t thought BB or GFB would be worth it on a fighter after extra attack.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
They are, since at 7th level you get to make a weapon attack as a bonus action after casting a cantrip. If you have a 16 INT (for argument's sake), you can deal weapon damage + 1d8 fire to a target, then 1d8+3 to a second target, then make another weapon attack. That's not a bad setup when you're trying to perform crowd control, especially as it allows you to get some damage onto an enemy that's outside of your weapon's reach. Booming Blade only targets a single enemy, but it can be really useful for locking down an opponent and preventing them from getting past you to a squishier party member.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Keep in mind that magic weapons could make BB and GFB less viable and higher levels. If you want to keep them relevant, Warcaster is a great feat to trigger GFB or BB on an opportunity attack which is really nasty.
One attack cantrip that is often overlooked is shocking grasp. It’s a melee spell attack, but will get advantage against someone in metal armor. Additionally, you take away the target’s reaction.
So, while in general I agree with other posters that shield, absorb elements, and other defensive spells are valuable and don’t require high int, I wanted to give shocking grasp a shout out.
I like the idea of shocking grasp but as a fighter would I be better served attacking.
I always debate between GFB or BB and which would be more useful. Would one be better than the other if I went PAM/Sentinel? I had also considered lightning lure figuring I could pull a target into PAM opportunity attack.
Edit: If I go with GWM instead of PAM would it work with GFB/BB? The feat doesn’t specify when you take the Attack Action.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Looks like it should unless there's been specific errata on it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Following on burnyay’s comment on warcaster feat would lightning lure pull and trigger a OA from polearm master but then warcaster allow the use of GFB or BB (or any other spell that qualifies) instead of just the weapon attack? PAM only says you get an OA when they come within reach and warcaster says you can cast a 1 action spell instead of weapon attack so GFB/BB would qualify.
Edit: Although I just realized Lightning Lure only does damage if they are within 5 feet of you
or would GFB be out since it affects more than one target and warcaster says only that target.for a spell?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It all depends on your idea of what "good" means. I see lots of "stupid EK" builds that dump intelligence, but I personally don't like having Eldritch Strike being undermined by that.
For ranged attack spells, I personally like fire bolt or ray of frost. The former has a longer range and can creatively affect the environment, but the latter slows and lets you chase into melee easier.
Create bonfire, frostbite and thunderclap all take advantage of Eldritch Strike and can often be followed up with the bonus action attack.
Light lets you see without needing a torch. Prestidigitation and minor illusion are very versatile in creative hands. Blade ward helps keep you alive in melee and you can follow up with the bonus attack. Gust is niche, but it can break grapples or kick around dropped items at a distance.
Shield is incredibly useful, so you use it all the time - you are constantly getting attacked.
Absorb Energy is nearly useless, at least if you have a single wizard 5th level or greater on your side.
To use Absorb Energy:
Basically, Absorb Energy and Featherfall are both "Life savers when you need them once in a lifetime." spells. Yeah, they do great work, but most of the time they are a waste of resources to prepare.
You're assuming that the wizard will want to counterspell the effect, the wizard has a spell slot available to counterspell the effect, and the effect is something that can be counterspelled.
That's great on the first encounter of the day when you're up against an enemy spellslinger.
Doesn't work so well when you've got a black dragon giving you an acid bath or a sorcerer Subtle Spelling a Fireball at you.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I am not saying it isn't useful. I am saying that my personal experience is that Absorb Energy never gets used. Yes, it SHOULD be helpful, but every time I memorized it, did not use it.
I recently fought a Dragon and thought I was going to need it, but nope, did not happen. Mainly because it only protects the caster and if going up against a Dragon you REALLY NEED the rest of your party, so we look for ways to negate it. In this case, we slept near the lair in a Tiny Hut, and the Dragon discovered us before the spell expired. Everyone ran back inside, including me.
I've taken Absorb Energy in several games had had it turn out to be useful each time. And quite frankly, if the GM let the entire party be protected from a dragon's breath weapon by turtling inside Leomond's Tiny Hut, the GM softballed that dragon.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
For pure damage, sure. But Shocking Grasp helps your friends move away from enemies without provoking opportunity attacks and against really powerful spellcasters prevents Counterspell.
Absorb Elements is a no-brainer for an Eldritch Knight, Fighters already have high AC and there's tons of things that deal damage of an applicable element that can't be counterspelled. And even when counterspell is an option it's often more cost-effective halve the damage with a 1st level slot than to burn a whole 3rd level slot on stopping the spell.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Shocking grasp is particularly great against enemies with the Reactive trait. I recall fighting evil monks and even a marilith where SG saved everyone's bacon. Purposefully move away to bait an AoO, then punish when it can't block SG.
A lot of good information to consider. Thanks to everyone for your input.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
My EK went with thunderclap. On round one, get in range of as many enemies as possible and hit as many as you can to trigger Eldritch Strike. On your next turn you cycle with the Thunderclap and your chances of connecting go way up. At 11th level, that can be up to 3d6 damage each against 3 enemies with disadvantage (not even counting other enemies that are nearby). Alternate 3 attacks and the cantrip each round and you’ll maximize this damage.
Elemental Adept (Thunder) ups this damage slightly. At level 11 your damage is upped by 0.5 per target, and at 17 it’s upped by 0.67 per target. That sounds trivial but when multiplied over many targets over multiple rounds it adds up quickly.