Over the years of 5e I've heard two major complaints ad nauseam. The ranger is terrible, and the monk and its subclasses are broken. The community spoke, and WoTC listened and did much to fix the ranger with Tasha's. I appreciate that WoTC listened, and I kinda think they heard us about monks in Tasha's as well, but the initial fixes they offered didn't really address the issues monks have. So with a new (or just updated) edition in development and the ever-increasing amount of content coming out, I was wondering how you feel we should convince them to address issues with the monk?
Also to list some complaints I've heard or made for clarity. These are obviously not a comprehensive list.
1. Poor utility outside of combat, with what abilities they do have not meshing well. For example, what's the point of being able to talk to anyone if you don't have the charisma to do anything with it.
2. Poor damage scaling in tier 3 and tier 4.
3. The poor balancing of stunning strike. If you take a lot of short rests it is a very powerful ability, if your group doesn't take a lot of short rests you can rapidly run out of meaningful options.
4. The fact that rogues can disengage for free but the monk costs resources to do the same thing.
5. Poor resource allocation across multiple subclasses. The 4 elements monk and sun soul being obvious examples that are pushed to use a resource that already has short/long rest issues.
6. A personal complaint of mine is the lack of an effective weapon striker-type monk. The Kensei monk attempted this, and while functional mechanically, thematically was terrible. It was a monk that focused on weapons that encouraged you not to use those weapons. Except as a bow monk, the Kensei is now very nerfed with Tasha's.
7. Being perhaps the most MAD class in the game.
8. Insufficient Magic item choices.
9. The weird thematic issue that unlike several other classes that get subclasses at level three your subclass could radically alter how you play, making level 1 and 2 choices not always align with level 3 play. For example, the Sun Soul acting as a ranged plinker has no feature that feeds into that in the first two levels. On the other hand a fighter who becomes a samurai would just be a better fighter. Additionally the issues of storytelling feed into this. A 1/3 caster can be learning from the wizard. But who taught you to shoot fireballs without spell casting? Did you always know it? If so why didn't it come up before level 3? Also if it requires an item (again looking at the kensei) why did you not have this item before hand?
10. The overburdened action economy. The base class at level 1 gives you a lot to do with your action and bonus action, and it continues to stack on for the rest of your career. This means that some features never see a lot of use because you already had a better way to spend that action or bonus action.
Now again this isn't a comprehensive list. I also don't want to seem like I'm saying no one should play a monk. My first character was a monk, and I still like them as an inclusion in the game. I just want them to come into their own as a class on par with their peers, and want to foster a discussion on how to convince WoTC to make those changes.
You have some good points and hopefully WotC will hear what we are saying. I'm not sure what DDB analytics shows what the DDB community thinks of the Monk, but once the acquisition of DDB by WotC is complete, they will have that info. You might also like to check out This Thread that touches on many of your issues or what we would like to see in the 2024 edition.
I assure you I'm following that thread closely. It has been insightful and it was really the motivation to ask "ok we have these opinions. Now, what can we do about it?"
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are any Simple and Martial Weapons, that don't have the heavy and special properties. You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons that you have proficiency and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield: (This also takes into account "Dedicated Weapon" feature)
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you. (this is not really a Disengage, but it allows the monk to attack an opponent and keep running.)
You can make one unarmed attack as a bonus action. (This is an independent attack on the main action and this is also a variant of the "Ki-Fueled Attack" feature).
Dao of Slaughter
At 15th level, the mastery on martial arts and ki grants you the ability to exploit the weak points of the opponents. You gain a bonus damage rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of +1) on all enemies you have an advantage over.
I find that it suits a martial arts master and leads the monk to exploit his techniques to have an advantage over his opponent. Unfortunately this feature can be abused by "Reckless Attack" (Barbarian class).
I thought that the monk has a tactical problem because he gives too much importance to both his action and his bonus action. Very often the bonus action is a sacrifice for many features in other classes. The monk has 2 normal attacks as an action and 1+1 bonus attacks. Making it difficult to optimize it. I would try to have more attacks as an action or as a bonus action.
So I tried a variant where the bonus attacks are not dependent on the main attack, but as a bonus action you can make an unarmed attack. At 5th level he gets another bonus unarmed attack and the "flurry of blow" adds another unarmed attack. Leading to 1 attack as a main action and 2+1 bonus attacks. This allow the monk to do attacks spell / cantrip + unarmed attacks. Since the bonus attacks are not dependent on the main attack the Disengage, Hide or Sprint actions can be done without then losing the bonus action.
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you make your bonus action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki power to make one unarmed strikes as part of your bonus action.
Extra Unarmed Attack
Beginning at 5th level, after attacking with your bonus unarmed attack or with your secondary weapon as part of the same bonus action you can make an unarmed attack.
This in addition to making the monk class more practical would make it interesting to the magical classes that want to fight in melee. If you have any critiques I would be delighted to hear them. If you are interested here is the link to the full verion.
Ki
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you make your bonus action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki power to make one unarmed strikes as part of your bonus action.
Reactive Defense. You can spend 1 ki power to use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC for that attack, potentially causing the attack to miss you.
World Energies. You learn 1 of the following spells. Burning Hands, Earth Tremor, Frost Fingers, Inflict Wonds, Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Thunderwave As an action, as an action, you can cast this spell by using 1 ki power per spell level (max:1ki x 1/2 monk level), the spell is performed without providing material components.
Martial Style
Archery. You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons
Blind Monk. You have blindsight with a range of 10 feet. Within that range, you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in darkness. Moreover, you can see an invisible creature within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.
Close Quarters Shooter. When making a ranged attack while you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature, you do not have disadvantage on the attack roll. Your ranged attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover against targets within 30 feet of you. You have a +1 bonus to attack rolls on ranged attacks.
Defensive Stance. As an action, you can enter a defensive stance that lasts until the start of your next turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach.
Divine Sense. As an action you can activate your divine sense on the region around you. For 1 minute per ki power you use, you can sense whether the following types of presences are present within 1 mile of you: Lawful good, Neutral good, Chaotic good, Lawful neutral, Neutral, Chaotic neutral, Lawful evil, Neutral evil, Chaotic evil. This feature doesn’t reveal the creatures’ location or number.
Eight Extraordinary Meridians. Your ki pool increases by a number equal to your wisdom modifier. Additionally, when you score a critical hit you regain 1 ki power.
Flurry of Weapon Attacks. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki power to treat monk weapons as unarmed strikes for the purposes of other class abilities. (This is for being able to make multiple attacks with the main weapon(s)).
Interception. When a creature you can see hits a target, other than you, within 5 feet of you with an attack, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage the target takes by 1d10 + your proficiency bonus (to a minimum of 0 damage). You must be wielding a monk weapon to use this reaction.
Ki Warrior. You learn two cantrips of your choice. They count as ranger spells for you. Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of these cantrips with another cantrip.
Ki Transfer. When you learn a spell, for racial reasons or other class abilities this spell(s) can be fueled by your ki power. 1 ki is equivalent to a level 1 spell.
Athlete. You have a swimming speed and a climbing speed equal to your normal speed, and you gain a +1 bonus to armor class.
Mask of Many Faces. You can cast Disguise Self at will, without expending ki point.
Mixed Martial Arts. You learn one MMA Technique of your choice from among those available to the Combat Master archetype. The Mixed Martial arts use your ki power to fuel the MMA technique. 1 ki power is expended when you use it.
Monkey Step. You become difficult to pin down during a fight. You can move up to half your movement speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
Protection. When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a monk weapon.
Staff Control. When you use a quarterstaff, or a spear, they gain the reach property, and your jump distance is doubled.
Thrown Weapon Fighting. You can draw a monk weapon that has the thrown property as part of the attack you make with the weapon. In addition, when you hit with a ranged attack using a thrown weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll.
Turtle Breathing Art. You can hold your breath for a number of hours equal to half of your monk level, and you gain a swimming speed equal to your walking speed. Additionally, you can use your action to give this same power to up to 4 people within 60 feet of you by consuming 1 ki power.
Two-Weapon Fighting. When you engage in two monk weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Wrestler. When you are totally unarmed, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with unarmed attacks.
With all this maybe I exaggerated a little, but on some things you could take a hint.
I haven't been following this thread as closely lately so I apologize if I have this incorrect. But you are proposing that the monk only have 1 attack when taking the Attack Action and then a Bonus action Unarmed strike (with Flurry of Blows adding the second unarmed strike for 1 ki as the Monk currently uses it). But when monks get the Extra Attack feature at level 5 they don't get a second attack as part of the Attack Action, but as an additional Unarmed Strike as a Bonus action?
Do you worry that this will lead to Multiclass dips into Monk to get this, at least 2 levels to get FoB and possibly 5 to get 3 attacks as a bonus action? I see a lot of builds that look to weaponize their bonus action (dual wielding, Polearm Master BA attack, etc), do we need to add dipping Monk to this list? Do you think this would take away from the Monk as a straight class and move it into the territory of MC dips like we see so many Hexblade dips?
It is true that having a unarmed attack as a bonus action is convenient, but you have to think that many classes sacrifice the bonus action. Above all they must follow the rule of the monk weapons, without armor and shield. At low level it is like having "Two-Weapon Fighting" with 1d4 + dex and at 5th level it is a bonus action that is not increased by "Action Surge". The only ones that would gain are magic classes and some particular fighters. Like rogues with the "mobile" feat or the Swashbucklerng.
It's an interesting concept. I would argue that just making unarmed strikes take part on the attack action following the triggering attack would be sufficient of a change to the base class to allow WOTC to make changes to subclasses to make them good. Similar to how the beast barbarian takes two attacks for each attack it makes with its claws. This frees up your bonus action, allowing you to do interesting things on your turn other than attack. You could bring this out heavily with the subclasses. Some wouldn't even need revision.
1. The shadow monk would be perfectly functional as-is but if you move the casting to a bonus action it is great.
2. The Kensei would have its unarmed strike on the action portion now meaning you get your ac boost while still using a sword for one or two attacks. Maybe add the ability to replace all unarmed strikes with your weapon, making you considered ac or damage. Would have to seriously rework the Kensei shot though if you did that.
3. The open hand monk would need some minor rewording of its open hand technique but otherwise be good.
4. Mercy a minor rewording as well.
5. Elements would need a lot of work as always. The elements monk has too high a price for access to some of its abilities, and too high a ki cost still that needs to be resolved.
6. The sun soul main ability would benefit from all attacks as part of the attack action making level 3 a very good ability. Level 6 and 17 need a complete rework because a single fire ability when everything else is radiant isn't thematic. The level 17 ability is a pitiful amount of damage, is kinda weird in that the low hp monk wants to be hit, and is insufficient to act as a deterrent.
7. Long death is good as is.
8. I haven't played drunken master, so just guessing here but it seems like it would be good as is.
9. I haven't played astral monk yet either but I think not needing ki to flurry would put it at the right balance of ki cost for it's current ability set.
10. Dragon monks' first two abilities would be good as is, I think the two top abilities could benefit from some minor changes like range improved area for the aura, but are otherwise ok.
Overall making flurry part of the attack action gives the monk a very nice power boost, excuses that step of the wind and patient defense costs a limited resource and opens up an avenue for creativity for the designers for future subclasses while allowing them space to improve or change existing subclasses without hurting the core themes. Additionally, if it only has a trigger cost, not a ki cost, then the problem of limited resources for the class is resolved on most subclasses, allowing only minor tweaks to the most ki intensive subclasses. This would hold true for both games played with intended numbers of short rests and those that don't.
The only problems left to resolve would be feats and magic items. A few purpose-designed feats and one ASI added at higher tier 2 would resolve feats. There are actually some good feats out for some of the monks that they just can't afford to take. A few magic items. Overall work on WOTC part would be about 20 lines of text to the classes and subclasses. Not a difficult endeavor on their part, and brings the class in line with the capabilities of the rogue and fighter, though a little between the two.
As for magic items I would propose: 1) A variety of tattoos with different powers. 2) Some necklace that will regenerate ki faster or once a day allows you to roll a martial die + wisdom modifier to absorb ki in the environment and recharge. https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/4619468-ksitigarbha-ferrying-the-soul-scripture 3) Some martial arts books that teach special techniques, like battle master's but using ki and martial dice. 4) Magic robes for monks 5) Bracelets of defense +1 / +2 / +3 6) Bracelets of attack +1 / +2 / +3
As for feats I would propose: 1) Something that allows you to increase damage based on the run-up taken before attacking (like charge) 2) Something similar, but less powerful to "Great Weapon Master" and "Sharpshooter" for melee weapons that are not heavy or unarmed attacks. 3) Your unarmed attacks receive the same magical and special properties as the weapon you wield. 4) You may change a saving throw of one of your magic/special attacks a number of times equal to your proficiency per day.
Over the years of 5e I've heard two major complaints ad nauseam. The ranger is terrible, and the monk and its subclasses are broken. The community spoke, and WoTC listened and did much to fix the ranger with Tasha's. I appreciate that WoTC listened, and I kinda think they heard us about monks in Tasha's as well, but the initial fixes they offered didn't really address the issues monks have. So with a new (or just updated) edition in development and the ever-increasing amount of content coming out, I was wondering how you feel we should convince them to address issues with the monk?
Also to list some complaints I've heard or made for clarity. These are obviously not a comprehensive list.
1. Poor utility outside of combat, with what abilities they do have not meshing well. For example, what's the point of being able to talk to anyone if you don't have the charisma to do anything with it.
2. Poor damage scaling in tier 3 and tier 4.
3. The poor balancing of stunning strike. If you take a lot of short rests it is a very powerful ability, if your group doesn't take a lot of short rests you can rapidly run out of meaningful options.
4. The fact that rogues can disengage for free but the monk costs resources to do the same thing.
5. Poor resource allocation across multiple subclasses. The 4 elements monk and sun soul being obvious examples that are pushed to use a resource that already has short/long rest issues.
6. A personal complaint of mine is the lack of an effective weapon striker-type monk. The Kensei monk attempted this, and while functional mechanically, thematically was terrible. It was a monk that focused on weapons that encouraged you not to use those weapons. Except as a bow monk, the Kensei is now very nerfed with Tasha's.
7. Being perhaps the most MAD class in the game.
8. Insufficient Magic item choices.
9. The weird thematic issue that unlike several other classes that get subclasses at level three your subclass could radically alter how you play, making level 1 and 2 choices not always align with level 3 play. For example, the Sun Soul acting as a ranged plinker has no feature that feeds into that in the first two levels. On the other hand a fighter who becomes a samurai would just be a better fighter. Additionally the issues of storytelling feed into this. A 1/3 caster can be learning from the wizard. But who taught you to shoot fireballs without spell casting? Did you always know it? If so why didn't it come up before level 3? Also if it requires an item (again looking at the kensei) why did you not have this item before hand?
10. The overburdened action economy. The base class at level 1 gives you a lot to do with your action and bonus action, and it continues to stack on for the rest of your career. This means that some features never see a lot of use because you already had a better way to spend that action or bonus action.
Now again this isn't a comprehensive list. I also don't want to seem like I'm saying no one should play a monk. My first character was a monk, and I still like them as an inclusion in the game. I just want them to come into their own as a class on par with their peers, and want to foster a discussion on how to convince WoTC to make those changes.
For point 8 I got a few magic items that are convenient even specific for monk: Eldritch claw tattoo, Insignia of claws, Dragonhide Belt, Staff of striking, Blood fury tattoo, Gloves of soul catching. with this items u can make a big difference on the monk and u can exclude the two legendary items and u would still build a nice monk with those items.
For point 9 there is a thematic issue u might not know but for a monk/martial artist/ cultivator they cultivate their body, soul and energy of their body and there are different lvls in that cultivation that can be manifested, for me at least i think it make sense.
Example on the class is at lvl 1 u got no ki but with ur hard training u had a small breakthrough and now u can accumulate it at lvl 2, but at lvl 3 u learn how to channel that ki.
For the rest of the points from the OP i support. The main issue is resource and u can fix that by either add more ki or eliminating that cost from some abilities.
How about giving the Monk proficiency with light and medium armor, and removing the restrictions on Monk abilities that don't work if you're wearing armour?
If you give them too many weapon proficiencies you take away from the Kensei, but removing the heavy/two-handed restrictions will open up some options.
Although they do need to retain their distinction from the Fighter.
How about giving the Monk proficiency with light and medium armor, and removing the restrictions on Monk abilities that don't work if you're wearing armour?
If you give them too many weapon proficiencies you take away from the Kensei, but removing the heavy/two-handed restrictions will open up some options.
Although they do need to retain their distinction from the Fighter.
I just don’t know what light and medium armor does for the monk even if you remove the restrictions. Unless you are still keeping the WIS bonus, which might be too much. Light armor, you still need to focus on DEX and with studded leather and 20 DEX you are at 17 AC. Same with half plate and 14 DEX. If you add a shield that takes it to 19.
I guess that makes you a bit less mad or opens up STR monks, but WIS is still needed for your Save DC for Stunning Strike, etc and you still don’t make it to 20 AC without magic armor (although you can get higher AC depending on the magic armor you have).
Medium and light armour both use dexterity, and don't have strength requirements, which means you're not distracting from the primary combat stat of Monks, and having options to gain AC rather than Wisdom means you can spend ASIs on feats without leaving yourself more vulnerable. Yes, it's true that your stunning strike save will be lower, but you don't have to use stunning strike because you'll have options. And no, you wouldn't be maintaining the Wisdom bonus, any more than Barbarians get their Constitution bonus when they wear light or medium armour.
Removing the heavy/two-handed limitation from Monk weapons again means that you don't need to invest in strength to use something like a glaive. Like a Hexblade Warlock you're using your primary stat for your combat stat. It's kind of ridiculous that you can use a spear two-handed for D8 damage, but you can't use a two-handed greatclub for d8 damage. That opens up feats like Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master as viable options for Monk (although PAM doesn't bring as much since Monk would still get their bonus unarmed attack each turn) bringing their damage up to match other melee characters. Fighters will still have their third attack, and Paladins their improved divine smite, so you won't be detracting from them, but you're still a Monk with all the Monk benefits.
We should wait until 2024 for a monk redesign and in the meantime make our voices heard by coming up with new ideas and alternatives so that the people with the authority to make these changes are aware that there is a problem with the design of some characters and that a change needs to be made. I'm sure that these people for inspiration will go looking for ideas on the net to see what the players like and how to make us happy.
In the meantime, I'm having fun creating a new version of the monk and doing my part by coming up with ideas. If you have any comments on my redesign you can write it on redit.com
Methinks youse forgots to mention: Monks should have d10 hit dice. No reason that archer Fighters and Rangers (who generally try to stay out of melee) should get d10, but Monks only get d8.
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Over the years of 5e I've heard two major complaints ad nauseam. The ranger is terrible, and the monk and its subclasses are broken. The community spoke, and WoTC listened and did much to fix the ranger with Tasha's. I appreciate that WoTC listened, and I kinda think they heard us about monks in Tasha's as well, but the initial fixes they offered didn't really address the issues monks have. So with a new (or just updated) edition in development and the ever-increasing amount of content coming out, I was wondering how you feel we should convince them to address issues with the monk?
Also to list some complaints I've heard or made for clarity. These are obviously not a comprehensive list.
1. Poor utility outside of combat, with what abilities they do have not meshing well. For example, what's the point of being able to talk to anyone if you don't have the charisma to do anything with it.
2. Poor damage scaling in tier 3 and tier 4.
3. The poor balancing of stunning strike. If you take a lot of short rests it is a very powerful ability, if your group doesn't take a lot of short rests you can rapidly run out of meaningful options.
4. The fact that rogues can disengage for free but the monk costs resources to do the same thing.
5. Poor resource allocation across multiple subclasses. The 4 elements monk and sun soul being obvious examples that are pushed to use a resource that already has short/long rest issues.
6. A personal complaint of mine is the lack of an effective weapon striker-type monk. The Kensei monk attempted this, and while functional mechanically, thematically was terrible. It was a monk that focused on weapons that encouraged you not to use those weapons. Except as a bow monk, the Kensei is now very nerfed with Tasha's.
7. Being perhaps the most MAD class in the game.
8. Insufficient Magic item choices.
9. The weird thematic issue that unlike several other classes that get subclasses at level three your subclass could radically alter how you play, making level 1 and 2 choices not always align with level 3 play. For example, the Sun Soul acting as a ranged plinker has no feature that feeds into that in the first two levels. On the other hand a fighter who becomes a samurai would just be a better fighter. Additionally the issues of storytelling feed into this. A 1/3 caster can be learning from the wizard. But who taught you to shoot fireballs without spell casting? Did you always know it? If so why didn't it come up before level 3? Also if it requires an item (again looking at the kensei) why did you not have this item before hand?
10. The overburdened action economy. The base class at level 1 gives you a lot to do with your action and bonus action, and it continues to stack on for the rest of your career. This means that some features never see a lot of use because you already had a better way to spend that action or bonus action.
Now again this isn't a comprehensive list. I also don't want to seem like I'm saying no one should play a monk. My first character was a monk, and I still like them as an inclusion in the game. I just want them to come into their own as a class on par with their peers, and want to foster a discussion on how to convince WoTC to make those changes.
You have some good points and hopefully WotC will hear what we are saying. I'm not sure what DDB analytics shows what the DDB community thinks of the Monk, but once the acquisition of DDB by WotC is complete, they will have that info. You might also like to check out This Thread that touches on many of your issues or what we would like to see in the 2024 edition.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I assure you I'm following that thread closely. It has been insightful and it was really the motivation to ask "ok we have these opinions. Now, what can we do about it?"
I'm trying to build a new version of the monk.
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Mz734bN8gWVYvErwFpw
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are any Simple and Martial Weapons, that don't have the heavy and special properties. You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons that you have proficiency and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield: (This also takes into account "Dedicated Weapon" feature)
Dao of Slaughter
At 15th level, the mastery on martial arts and ki grants you the ability to exploit the weak points of the opponents. You gain a bonus damage rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of +1) on all enemies you have an advantage over.
I find that it suits a martial arts master and leads the monk to exploit his techniques to have an advantage over his opponent. Unfortunately this feature can be abused by "Reckless Attack" (Barbarian class).
I thought that the monk has a tactical problem because he gives too much importance to both his action and his bonus action. Very often the bonus action is a sacrifice for many features in other classes. The monk has 2 normal attacks as an action and 1+1 bonus attacks. Making it difficult to optimize it. I would try to have more attacks as an action or as a bonus action.
So I tried a variant where the bonus attacks are not dependent on the main attack, but as a bonus action you can make an unarmed attack. At 5th level he gets another bonus unarmed attack and the "flurry of blow" adds another unarmed attack. Leading to 1 attack as a main action and 2+1 bonus attacks. This allow the monk to do attacks spell / cantrip + unarmed attacks. Since the bonus attacks are not dependent on the main attack the Disengage, Hide or Sprint actions can be done without then losing the bonus action.
Extra Unarmed Attack
Beginning at 5th level, after attacking with your bonus unarmed attack or with your secondary weapon as part of the same bonus action you can make an unarmed attack.
This in addition to making the monk class more practical would make it interesting to the magical classes that want to fight in melee. If you have any critiques I would be delighted to hear them. If you are interested here is the link to the full verion.
Ki
Martial Style
With all this maybe I exaggerated a little, but on some things you could take a hint.
I haven't been following this thread as closely lately so I apologize if I have this incorrect. But you are proposing that the monk only have 1 attack when taking the Attack Action and then a Bonus action Unarmed strike (with Flurry of Blows adding the second unarmed strike for 1 ki as the Monk currently uses it). But when monks get the Extra Attack feature at level 5 they don't get a second attack as part of the Attack Action, but as an additional Unarmed Strike as a Bonus action?
Do you worry that this will lead to Multiclass dips into Monk to get this, at least 2 levels to get FoB and possibly 5 to get 3 attacks as a bonus action? I see a lot of builds that look to weaponize their bonus action (dual wielding, Polearm Master BA attack, etc), do we need to add dipping Monk to this list? Do you think this would take away from the Monk as a straight class and move it into the territory of MC dips like we see so many Hexblade dips?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It is true that having a unarmed attack as a bonus action is convenient, but you have to think that many classes sacrifice the bonus action. Above all they must follow the rule of the monk weapons, without armor and shield. At low level it is like having "Two-Weapon Fighting" with 1d4 + dex and at 5th level it is a bonus action that is not increased by "Action Surge". The only ones that would gain are magic classes and some particular fighters. Like rogues with the "mobile" feat or the Swashbucklerng.
It's an interesting concept. I would argue that just making unarmed strikes take part on the attack action following the triggering attack would be sufficient of a change to the base class to allow WOTC to make changes to subclasses to make them good. Similar to how the beast barbarian takes two attacks for each attack it makes with its claws. This frees up your bonus action, allowing you to do interesting things on your turn other than attack. You could bring this out heavily with the subclasses. Some wouldn't even need revision.
1. The shadow monk would be perfectly functional as-is but if you move the casting to a bonus action it is great.
2. The Kensei would have its unarmed strike on the action portion now meaning you get your ac boost while still using a sword for one or two attacks. Maybe add the ability to replace all unarmed strikes with your weapon, making you considered ac or damage. Would have to seriously rework the Kensei shot though if you did that.
3. The open hand monk would need some minor rewording of its open hand technique but otherwise be good.
4. Mercy a minor rewording as well.
5. Elements would need a lot of work as always. The elements monk has too high a price for access to some of its abilities, and too high a ki cost still that needs to be resolved.
6. The sun soul main ability would benefit from all attacks as part of the attack action making level 3 a very good ability. Level 6 and 17 need a complete rework because a single fire ability when everything else is radiant isn't thematic. The level 17 ability is a pitiful amount of damage, is kinda weird in that the low hp monk wants to be hit, and is insufficient to act as a deterrent.
7. Long death is good as is.
8. I haven't played drunken master, so just guessing here but it seems like it would be good as is.
9. I haven't played astral monk yet either but I think not needing ki to flurry would put it at the right balance of ki cost for it's current ability set.
10. Dragon monks' first two abilities would be good as is, I think the two top abilities could benefit from some minor changes like range improved area for the aura, but are otherwise ok.
Overall making flurry part of the attack action gives the monk a very nice power boost, excuses that step of the wind and patient defense costs a limited resource and opens up an avenue for creativity for the designers for future subclasses while allowing them space to improve or change existing subclasses without hurting the core themes. Additionally, if it only has a trigger cost, not a ki cost, then the problem of limited resources for the class is resolved on most subclasses, allowing only minor tweaks to the most ki intensive subclasses. This would hold true for both games played with intended numbers of short rests and those that don't.
The only problems left to resolve would be feats and magic items. A few purpose-designed feats and one ASI added at higher tier 2 would resolve feats. There are actually some good feats out for some of the monks that they just can't afford to take. A few magic items. Overall work on WOTC part would be about 20 lines of text to the classes and subclasses. Not a difficult endeavor on their part, and brings the class in line with the capabilities of the rogue and fighter, though a little between the two.
Thanks, I didn't think my monk variant had such good synergy with the existing subclasses.
In the first link is my variation of the monk class with all the elements in blue color varying from the orginal. Probably the changes are many and many are exaggerated, but so I can also see which are more important and which are not. As ThriKreenWarrior says, this thread (which he started) contains so many brilliant ideas from so many people motivated to change and improve the monk class. https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/monk/128560-the-new-evolution-of-the-monk-core-class?page=24#c466
This link, on the other hand, contains my own variation that I'm improving by following tips left and right.
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Mz734bN8gWVYvErwFpw
As for magic items I would propose:
1) A variety of tattoos with different powers.
2) Some necklace that will regenerate ki faster or once a day allows you to roll a martial die + wisdom modifier to absorb ki in the environment and recharge. https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/4619468-ksitigarbha-ferrying-the-soul-scripture
3) Some martial arts books that teach special techniques, like battle master's but using ki and martial dice.
4) Magic robes for monks
5) Bracelets of defense +1 / +2 / +3
6) Bracelets of attack +1 / +2 / +3
As for feats I would propose:
1) Something that allows you to increase damage based on the run-up taken before attacking (like charge)
2) Something similar, but less powerful to "Great Weapon Master" and "Sharpshooter" for melee weapons that are not heavy or unarmed attacks.
3) Your unarmed attacks receive the same magical and special properties as the weapon you wield.
4) You may change a saving throw of one of your magic/special attacks a number of times equal to your proficiency per day.
For point 8 I got a few magic items that are convenient even specific for monk: Eldritch claw tattoo, Insignia of claws, Dragonhide Belt, Staff of striking, Blood fury tattoo, Gloves of soul catching. with this items u can make a big difference on the monk and u can exclude the two legendary items and u would still build a nice monk with those items.
For point 9 there is a thematic issue u might not know but for a monk/martial artist/ cultivator they cultivate their body, soul and energy of their body and there are different lvls in that cultivation that can be manifested, for me at least i think it make sense.
Example on the class is at lvl 1 u got no ki but with ur hard training u had a small breakthrough and now u can accumulate it at lvl 2, but at lvl 3 u learn how to channel that ki.
For the rest of the points from the OP i support. The main issue is resource and u can fix that by either add more ki or eliminating that cost from some abilities.
How about giving the Monk proficiency with light and medium armor, and removing the restrictions on Monk abilities that don't work if you're wearing armour?
If you give them too many weapon proficiencies you take away from the Kensei, but removing the heavy/two-handed restrictions will open up some options.
Although they do need to retain their distinction from the Fighter.
I just don’t know what light and medium armor does for the monk even if you remove the restrictions. Unless you are still keeping the WIS bonus, which might be too much. Light armor, you still need to focus on DEX and with studded leather and 20 DEX you are at 17 AC. Same with half plate and 14 DEX. If you add a shield that takes it to 19.
I guess that makes you a bit less mad or opens up STR monks, but WIS is still needed for your Save DC for Stunning Strike, etc and you still don’t make it to 20 AC without magic armor (although you can get higher AC depending on the magic armor you have).
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Medium and light armour both use dexterity, and don't have strength requirements, which means you're not distracting from the primary combat stat of Monks, and having options to gain AC rather than Wisdom means you can spend ASIs on feats without leaving yourself more vulnerable. Yes, it's true that your stunning strike save will be lower, but you don't have to use stunning strike because you'll have options. And no, you wouldn't be maintaining the Wisdom bonus, any more than Barbarians get their Constitution bonus when they wear light or medium armour.
Removing the heavy/two-handed limitation from Monk weapons again means that you don't need to invest in strength to use something like a glaive. Like a Hexblade Warlock you're using your primary stat for your combat stat. It's kind of ridiculous that you can use a spear two-handed for D8 damage, but you can't use a two-handed greatclub for d8 damage. That opens up feats like Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master as viable options for Monk (although PAM doesn't bring as much since Monk would still get their bonus unarmed attack each turn) bringing their damage up to match other melee characters. Fighters will still have their third attack, and Paladins their improved divine smite, so you won't be detracting from them, but you're still a Monk with all the Monk benefits.
Yall either way I think we are off-topic. How do we convince WoTC to make changes, so we can have more fun?
We should wait until 2024 for a monk redesign and in the meantime make our voices heard by coming up with new ideas and alternatives so that the people with the authority to make these changes are aware that there is a problem with the design of some characters and that a change needs to be made. I'm sure that these people for inspiration will go looking for ideas on the net to see what the players like and how to make us happy.
https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/evolution-sixth-edition-2024#:~:text=D&D 5E was released in,roleplaying for the first time.
In the meantime, I'm having fun creating a new version of the monk and doing my part by coming up with ideas. If you have any comments on my redesign you can write it on redit.com
https://www.reddit.com//r/UnearthedArcana/comments/uj7jjp/the_monk_is_a_different_class_from_the_fighter_it/
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Mz734bN8gWVYvErwFpw
Methinks youse forgots to mention: Monks should have d10 hit dice. No reason that archer Fighters and Rangers (who generally try to stay out of melee) should get d10, but Monks only get d8.