Most games end up not using feats but not because people don't like them its because most games end by 10th level and unless you're a fighter you mostly want to raise your primary stat to 20 instead of a feat.
Fighters suffer greatly in a feat-less game and I would never run a game without one.
That being said I realize that games without them exist but I do feel they add more than they detract.
I have also never seen a game with MC that did not allow feats so you are truly a unicorn!
Not taking a feat because you would rather have an ASI is not the same as not being allowed to take feats. And these are being taken as the bonus feat of the race, which cannot be used on a full ASI.
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
I maintain that unless you are a VHuman grapple monk that unarmed fighting style just isn't worth it when compared to Custom Lineage + Half Feat as a damage boost. When talking about dipping to get UFS, you're either putting off extra attack, or taking it after level 5, when martial arts has scaled and reduced the benefits of the style. Neither of which sound appealing to me.
Not taking a feat because you would rather have an ASI is not the same as not being allowed to take feats. And these are being taken as the bonus feat of the race, which cannot be used on a full ASI.
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
I maintain that unless you are a VHuman grapple monk that unarmed fighting style just isn't worth it when compared to other Custom Lineage + Half Feat. When talking about dipping to get UFS, you're either putting off extra attack, or taking it after level 5, when martial arts has scaled and reduced the benefits of the style. Neither of which sound appealing to me.
Yeah this is generally the idea I have when discussing builds...
I assume you have feats and can MC if not then its pretty much just....go with monk? you don't really have much of a choice lol.
Overall IMO its not worth it to discuss featless/MC builds as they are literally just...what subclass do you pick and thats about it.
So roughly only about ~15-20% of players take feats. They talk a little bit about it but they did mention that most players max ASI as a very real possibility.
It would make sense to me as 8th level I know I struggle with maxing my main ASI vs. taking a feat...I almost always go ASI as it effects so much.
You know what's up. Lol. But yeah, that's exactly the kind of build I'm talking about wanting unarmed fighting style. If only tortles got a bonus feat.
They could take it later I suppose. I'm not sure it's worth a feat even still though. But the idea of a ninja turtle grappling an enemy, running up a wall, and then jumping off said was makes me happy.
You know what's up. Lol. But yeah, that's exactly the kind of build I'm talking about wanting unarmed fighting style. If only tortles got a bonus feat.
They could take it later I suppose. I'm not sure it's worth a feat even still though. But the idea of a ninja turtle grappling an enemy, running up a wall, and then jumping off said was makes me happy.
It would be an interesting fighting style for a battlerager.
Hmmm. While I like the idea of the ninja turtle grappler, I feel like it should have a longsword, a pair of shortswords, a quarterstaff, or 2 sets of two short clubs attached together by a chain. Hmmm. Might have to make one of those now.
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
There are more than just the two of you reading the forum. It makes it seem as if Feats are a requirement rather than an option. New GMs might feel they must include them.
The fact that your conversation needs Feats proves that they are a crutch. Every GM can run their game the way they want =)
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
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"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
There are more than just the two of you reading the forum. It makes it seem as if Feats are a requirement rather than an option. New GMs might feel they must include them.
The fact that your conversation needs Feats proves that they are a crutch. Every GM can run their game the way they want =)
You really don't get it.
I was trying to engage in a discussion that involves feats. I was comparing the merits of two different builds with feats.
It's like if you were trying to discuss the merits of chess openings and I mentioned some people play checkers.
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
There are more than just the two of you reading the forum. It makes it seem as if Feats are a requirement rather than an option. New GMs might feel they must include them.
The fact that your conversation needs Feats proves that they are a crutch. Every GM can run their game the way they want =)
You really don't get it.
I was trying to engage in a discussion that involves feats. I was comparing the merits of two different builds with feats.
It's like if you were trying to discuss the merits of chess openings and I mentioned some people play checkers.
Plus feats aren't a "crutch" they are a part of the game that a lot of people use. Honestly I appreciate the discussion including feats because you can always bring it to your DM and see what they think.
That's one of my favorite things about this game and this edition in particular.... You have a lot of flex to do whatever you want!
My OH monk is currently level 9, but thinking out to 20 I am leaning towards taking that final level in Wizard or Cleric. For cleric I am thinking either light or tempest domain. The 4 pts of ki at level 20 is underwhelming. I think a little bit of magic flair adds some interesting utility.
My OH monk is currently level 9, but thinking out to 20 I am leaning towards taking that final level in Wizard or Cleric. For cleric I am thinking either light or tempest domain. The 4 pts of ki at level 20 is underwhelming. I think a little bit of magic flair adds some interesting utility.
Cleric is a good one. You can get some healing word which works as well at 1st level and 20th level.
If you know you're going to 20 and want a dip I recommend hexblade warlock. If you have the charisma of course. If not go wizard, which I'm assuming you mentioned because you have the intelligence. Either one allows you to wield a Staff of Power as your quarterstaff. Work with your DM to get it as your endgame weapon and the warlock/wizard dip will feel amazing. Warlock is my pick because of hexblade's curse and hex stacking so well with the monk routine, but wizard has plenty of good defensive utility to add. If you can work out something with your DM to eventually get a staff of power (not unreasonable in a campaign stretching to 20) then I think these dips will feel so much better than cleric.
Dipping a level into druid could also be really cool to be able to use a Staff of the Woodlands.
Basically I think you should take a dip that allows you to wield a cool caster specific staff as your weapon.
If you know you're going to 20 and want a dip I recommend hexblade warlock. If you have the charisma of course. If not go wizard, which I'm assuming you mentioned because you have the intelligence. Either one allows you to wield a Staff of Power as your quarterstaff. Work with your DM to get it as your endgame weapon and the warlock/wizard dip will feel amazing. Warlock is my pick because of hexblade's curse and hex stacking so well with the monk routine, but wizard has plenty of good defensive utility to add. If you can work out something with your DM to eventually get a staff of power (not unreasonable in a campaign stretching to 20) then I think these dips will feel so much better than cleric.
Dipping a level into druid could also be really cool to be able to use a Staff of the Woodlands.
Basically I think you should take a dip that allows you to wield a cool caster specific staff as your weapon.
Huh thats something I never thought about for a final level dip like this....but you are much more likely to encounter such things at level 20 so it makes a lot of sense.
Exactly! I don't like to consider magic items on characters until the really high levels. At that point you're bound to have something.
If there is ever a time to approach a DM about acquiring a specific powerful item it's for level 20 play.
And even if your DM is completely unwilling to work with you on a specific magic item drop, you will most likely find at least one cool staff by 20. Again, assuming you have the intelligence for the wizard dip, there are plenty of awesome staves that you could find and use (staff of power is just the best one)
One of the players in the campaign I currently DM does not allow feats when it’s his turn to DM.
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Most games end up not using feats but not because people don't like them its because most games end by 10th level and unless you're a fighter you mostly want to raise your primary stat to 20 instead of a feat.
Fighters suffer greatly in a feat-less game and I would never run a game without one.
That being said I realize that games without them exist but I do feel they add more than they detract.
I have also never seen a game with MC that did not allow feats so you are truly a unicorn!
Not taking a feat because you would rather have an ASI is not the same as not being allowed to take feats. And these are being taken as the bonus feat of the race, which cannot be used on a full ASI.
And that's totally cool if your game has no feats. Doesn't pertain to comparing two builds that use feats though.
I maintain that unless you are a VHuman grapple monk that unarmed fighting style just isn't worth it when compared to Custom Lineage + Half Feat as a damage boost. When talking about dipping to get UFS, you're either putting off extra attack, or taking it after level 5, when martial arts has scaled and reduced the benefits of the style. Neither of which sound appealing to me.
Yeah this is generally the idea I have when discussing builds...
I assume you have feats and can MC if not then its pretty much just....go with monk? you don't really have much of a choice lol.
Overall IMO its not worth it to discuss featless/MC builds as they are literally just...what subclass do you pick and thats about it.
Feat data from DnD Beyond if anyone is curious:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/02/14/top-feats-and-top-feats-by-class-dndbeyond/
So roughly only about ~15-20% of players take feats. They talk a little bit about it but they did mention that most players max ASI as a very real possibility.
It would make sense to me as 8th level I know I struggle with maxing my main ASI vs. taking a feat...I almost always go ASI as it effects so much.
They could take it later I suppose. I'm not sure it's worth a feat even still though. But the idea of a ninja turtle grappling an enemy, running up a wall, and then jumping off said was makes me happy.
It would be an interesting fighting style for a battlerager.
Hmmm. While I like the idea of the ninja turtle grappler, I feel like it should have a longsword, a pair of shortswords, a quarterstaff, or 2 sets of two short clubs attached together by a chain. Hmmm. Might have to make one of those now.
There are more than just the two of you reading the forum. It makes it seem as if Feats are a requirement rather than an option. New GMs might feel they must include them.
The fact that your conversation needs Feats proves that they are a crutch. Every GM can run their game the way they want =)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You really don't get it.
I was trying to engage in a discussion that involves feats. I was comparing the merits of two different builds with feats.
It's like if you were trying to discuss the merits of chess openings and I mentioned some people play checkers.
Plus feats aren't a "crutch" they are a part of the game that a lot of people use. Honestly I appreciate the discussion including feats because you can always bring it to your DM and see what they think.
That's one of my favorite things about this game and this edition in particular.... You have a lot of flex to do whatever you want!
My OH monk is currently level 9, but thinking out to 20 I am leaning towards taking that final level in Wizard or Cleric. For cleric I am thinking either light or tempest domain. The 4 pts of ki at level 20 is underwhelming. I think a little bit of magic flair adds some interesting utility.
Cleric is a good one. You can get some healing word which works as well at 1st level and 20th level.
If you know you're going to 20 and want a dip I recommend hexblade warlock. If you have the charisma of course. If not go wizard, which I'm assuming you mentioned because you have the intelligence. Either one allows you to wield a Staff of Power as your quarterstaff. Work with your DM to get it as your endgame weapon and the warlock/wizard dip will feel amazing. Warlock is my pick because of hexblade's curse and hex stacking so well with the monk routine, but wizard has plenty of good defensive utility to add. If you can work out something with your DM to eventually get a staff of power (not unreasonable in a campaign stretching to 20) then I think these dips will feel so much better than cleric.
Dipping a level into druid could also be really cool to be able to use a Staff of the Woodlands.
Basically I think you should take a dip that allows you to wield a cool caster specific staff as your weapon.
Huh thats something I never thought about for a final level dip like this....but you are much more likely to encounter such things at level 20 so it makes a lot of sense.
Exactly! I don't like to consider magic items on characters until the really high levels. At that point you're bound to have something.
If there is ever a time to approach a DM about acquiring a specific powerful item it's for level 20 play.
And even if your DM is completely unwilling to work with you on a specific magic item drop, you will most likely find at least one cool staff by 20. Again, assuming you have the intelligence for the wizard dip, there are plenty of awesome staves that you could find and use (staff of power is just the best one)
Yeah one of the main reasons I considered wizard was for one of the cool staves to use as a quarterstaff.