It matters when your spell casters w/o Devil's Sight need to see a target, and then there's the part about ticking of your fellow players. Your mileage may vary
You mean 3 attacks with close to half the chance of hitting compared to 2 slightly weaker attacks at most with a much higher chance of hitting.
Half the chance? That isn't how the math works.
Say you are attacking an enemy with an ac of 15. At level 5, your eldritch blast would have at least a +4 to hit (assuming you're dedicated to having the lowest possible char score), while a shot with a shortbow would have a +7.
That means the eldritch blast needs to roll an 11 or higher, while the shortbow needs to roll an 8 or higher. That isn't close to "half the chance." Its a 45% chance for the eldritch blast and 60% chance for the shortbow, which is only a 15% difference. And the chances for both go up dramatically if you are specifically abusing the unseen attacker rule for advantage, which is the whole point of this thread.
That difference can go up to 20% if dex is maxed out and char is never touched, but while that isn't ideal, it still isn't as massive 50%. a magic shortbow could even take that farther, but even a +3 bow wouldn't get to a 50% difference.
You're really over-estimating the difference in hit chance.
It's actually 3 attacks vs. 3 attacks if all we care about is hitting the opponent
How is it 3 attacks vs 3 attacks? There is no way for a shadow monk to give themselves a 3rd ranged attack.
Further, if your going to call the difference in damage negligible from 1d8 to 1d10... Or even 1d6 to 1d8 as you did in your measurement about how monks damage doesn't really improve past level 6. That means the damage difference is negligible between Eldritch Blast and MA from a Monk. Also while we're considering such things. the Monks Damage is actually higher. Because Even if you take Agonizing blast as your second Invocation. That's only a +1 to the damage. 1d10+1 is an average damage of 6 basically (6.5 when people are trying to get somewhat technical) per blast. The Monk with +4 to +5 is looking at an average damage of 7-8 on a d6 and 8-9 on a d8.
1d10 and 1d6 from Hex is a lot bigger than 1d6+4. Its the difference between a short sword and a greatsword. Throw in hex blade's curse and the eldritch blast has an improved crit range and at least a +1 to damage too. But if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character.
But lets also be realistic here; a monk who isn't a dedicated archer is going to occasionally have to go through the pain of switching weapons to use their bow in combat, especially if they are using monk weapons at those lower levels do get some d8 or d10 hits in. That means that in a lot of combats, its the difference between taking a hand off a staff for an eldritch blast vs just not making a ranged attack that opening turn.
And there are the famous naked prison escapes all monk players salivate over, cause they get to shine. You might not have your shortbow if you shawshank a prison break, but they can't take eldritch blast from you.
So even if a shadow monk with 2 levels of warlock doesn't exclusively use eldritch blast over their bow, its a useful option.
And then when we throw in other factors besides Damage. Like the Potential for Stunning Strike, which if it works not only generates automatic advantage for the second strike but potentially action economy for not having to defend or disengage from that target, but also generates Advantage for other members of the party if they target that individual.
You can't stunning strike with a ranged attack, so its not a real concern. Now if you really just want to play a stun bot for a hardcore combat game, I guess it would make sense to avoid multiclassing altogether, but the point of this thread is finding a way to pick up Devil's Sight to spam the unseen attacker rule, and there is only one means of doing that.
Also your automatically proficient with it as a monk since it's a simple weapon and it doesn't have the Heavy or special property so you can use Dedicated Weapon on it which turns it into a monk weapon.
I'll let you in on a secret; you're proficient with eldritch blast if you take levels in Warlock too.
I'll just end by mentioning there would be a cool factor to all this for me. I would reflavor my eldritch blast. Im a shadow monk: I probably want to be a ninja. So my eldtrich blasts will be played off as shuriken, or ki enfused throwing weapons. Ones I can use despite still having my staff in my other hand. When I use the shield spell or smite from my hexblade classes, its part of my ninja training and another trick or technique.
Oh. Now you want to get the math correct. When before you were saying a +1 vs a +5. Because you realized that the gap is much bigger than you said.
a +4 is Half of a +8. Which is what a +5 would give at level 5. That's where half comes from. But now your avoiding the hyperbolic to attack me when I point out the falsety in your claiming that the differences are small. This would be a 20% difference. Sure. And I'm full aware of that. That's double 20% that the +4 is giving you. Because while it's a 20% difference between the two. It's not necessarily actually a 20% difference like I said. That plus 7 to plus 8 modifier is basically double the +3 to +4 modifier.
Further. It's 3 attacks because I didn't limit it to ranged. In fact for most of the comparison I didn't make that limitation. I made a comparison between MA and Eldritch Blast. Your limiting it to the short bow. Not me. But MA is primarily not ranged so that's a smoke screen limitation to make a false comparison when you insist that it has to be a bow. Thus that means that the Monk with MA is primarily 3 attacks (2 Attack Action Attacks and 1 Bonus Action attack) for MA exactly like i said when all your doing is comparing attacks and damage.
Your also incorrect that there is no way to get 3 attacks with a short bow. Focused AIM if you wish it can give you 3 attacks with a short bow. You only have to use it once on a single attack. Regardless of if you need the actual +2 to the attack or not. This one expenditure of Ki is enough to use Ki Fueled strike to make a 3rd bow attack. So it is entirely possible to have 3 attacks even with your inserted limitation of the short bow. though again. I was not working under the short bow limitation to begin with in my analysis and that should be obvious in the way I stated several things. Including bringing up the short bow and mentioning that Eldritch Blasts only advantage would be ranged. Not the other things you said.
Further 1d10 and 1d6 is not bigger than 1d6+4(or +5) 1d10+1d6 is is 5+3=8 total average damage. I had already stated that 1d6+4(or +5) was 7-8 average damage. They are the same. This sort of matches at level 5. But at level 11 when you'd get that third Eldritch Blast Attack. It is not 1d6+4. It is most likely 1d8+5. Though I made allowances for those that might not have fully maxed Dex as quick as possible by keeping the possibility of +4 as well. Which ups our Average Damage per attack to 8-9 damage. If you Use Dedicated Weapon. The 1d8 does apply to the short bow as well because you've made it a Monk Weapon making MA damage apply to it because Dedicated Weapon circumvents the restriction against Monk Weapons only being Melee weapons.
Further. You are completely incorrect on Eldritch Blast having Increased Crit Range. There is nothing the increases Eldritch Blasts ability to crit that does not work for MA or even the Short bow. Your Trying to imply that HexBlades curse is an advantage specifically to Eldritch Blast and it's not, nor does it apply to all targets that you might want to attack or guarantee that you will have it available for combat. If you were trying to imply this increased Chance to Crit is from Advantage. Then that is a false comparison because there are lots of ways to get advantage. Some of them even possessed by the Monk that are not compatible with Eldritch Blast. So there is no actual improvement to Crit Chance for Eldritch Blast over The Shadow Monk using MA, or Even the Bow really. If your trying to imply that Eldritch Blast gets a single instance of Advantage automatically to all of it's multiple attacks. You would be entirely mistaken on this front as well because there is nothing in the wording of Eldritch Blast that makes them Simultaneous. This means that by RaW Only one of the attacks would get the Advantage Modifier. If your going to attempt to use Jeremy Crawford to try to refute this. Be aware that not only is what he says on Twitter only Semi-Official at Best but he has actually ruled on it both ways on various spells that all work in the same fashion as Eldritch Blast.
On the Matter of Switching Weapons, On any other Character besides a Monk this is far more of a concern. But the Monk is Always armed and does not need both hands free to make unarmed attacks with Martial Arts. So not only do they take one hand off of the Bow when they are not using it to attack. But they don't actually need their hands to make Martial Arts hits. This need to switch is not a problem that is somehow unique and extra burdening to the monk. It's actually less of a burden to the monk than to other classes for this predictable instance. And it's a problem that becomes even less of an issue as their damage dice goes up because most if not all of the reason to need to switch to another weapon tends to get negated. Furthermore, It is not the Opening Turn where this becomes an issue for most any character. Weapon Switching Only becomes a complication for Successive Turns. So for the Opening Turn it is just as easy for a Monk to draw their bow and make attacks with it as it is to draw a staff and then use one hand to cast Eldritch Blast. So this is another way that your representation of the situation is not quite correct.
Finally. your secret is not a secret. I never said that you weren't proficient. My point which does not change because of your snark about proficiency does not change. It does not actually require any more investment than a bit of gold to get a short bow and some arrows. It still does require an investment and an affect on your gaining of abilities to take not only 1 but two levels of Warlock.
The point of this thread is not to make Devil's Sight to work or to talk it up and talk other things down. It's a question on if it does work and if it is worth it. The Reality is that no it does not work. No it's not really worth it. And Attempts to try and make it worth it are going to cost you in a variety of ways and not really necessarily be worth it either. Two Level's of Warlock are decent for Rule of Cool. But Rule of Cool isn't what was asked about or for.
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
How much does blinding allies really matter though? It messes with spells that require sight, sure, but any disadvantage on attack rolls are nullified by the opponent also being blinded.
it's more than just that. They often don't know what squares to target to know if that role they are making even has a chance to hit. or if they are shooting the arrow in the right direction or things like that. There is more to being blind than just the rules for Obscured. There is a lot of visual information that is lost and may take rolls just to aproximate. You often don't just hinder just your parties ability to see for a straight role. You often hinder their party to even target the enemy. Which is something that often gets missed. And just one of the many reasons why the whole "Darkness spell as a combat tool" Sounds cool. But functions poorly, Even when you solve it for yourself in the party. The whole disadvantage for not seeing the target but advantage because they can't see the attack coming thing only comes into play when you can actually manage to aim at the right square.
Oh. Now you want to get the math correct. When before you were saying a +1 vs a +5. Because you realized that the gap is much bigger than you said.
a +4 is Half of a +8. Which is what a +5 would give at level 5. That's where half comes from. But now your avoiding the hyperbolic to attack me when I point out the falsety in your claiming that the differences are small. This would be a 20% difference. Sure. And I'm full aware of that. That's double 20% that the +4 is giving you. Because while it's a 20% difference between the two. It's not necessarily actually a 20% difference like I said. That plus 7 to plus 8 modifier is basically double the +3 to +4 modifier.
The game isn't designed assuming someone can attain +5 in a stat by level 5. If we are going to generously roll up stats, why not assume the monk put even just a 14 or 16 in Char, thinking they might go that route?
I moved to talking about a level 5 character because its simpler than discussing post level 11, the time when the ranged attacks would be noticeably changed (and where campaigns generally tend to be rushing to a conclusion).
And the difference will always only be 5% per increase in Dex. Its a 20% in hit chance even if it is technically a 100% increase in the raw number. But focusing on that 100% number really exaggerates the increase in hit chance. You still roll a di to determine the actual hit.
Further. It's 3 attacks because I didn't limit it to ranged. In fact for most of the comparison I didn't make that limitation. I made a comparison between MA and Eldritch Blast. Your limiting it to the short bow. Not me. But MA is primarily not ranged so that's a smoke screen limitation to make a false comparison when you insist that it has to be a bow. Thus that means that the Monk with MA is primarily 3 attacks (2 Attack Action Attacks and 1 Bonus Action attack) for MA exactly like i said when all your doing is comparing attacks and damage.
Well I obviously did limit it to range by calling it a nice ranged option to have on hand. Why would you ever want to fire eldritch blast at someone at disadvantage in melee range? And when did I say we should plan out a monk who never throws a punch? You're arguing a strawman there.
Your also incorrect that there is no way to get 3 attacks with a short bow. Focused AIM if you wish it can give you 3 attacks with a short bow
The goofy thing is, you can use Focused Aim for Eldritch blasts too. I did not realize that until I went back to read up Focused Aim. Its kind of dumb though, since it burns through ki at an exorbitant rate, and a monk who took 2 levels of Warlock wouldn't have it at level 5 for our comparison anyways. But lets just recognize that even a level 5 monk only has 5 ki points anyways... so they will get to abuse Focused Aim for only one turn per combat, and not get to do much else with ki.
Further 1d10 and 1d6 is not bigger than 1d6+4(or +5) 1d10+1d6 is is 5+3=8 total average damage. I had already stated that 1d6+4(or +5) was 7-8 average damage. They are the same. This sort of matches at level 5. But at level 11 when you'd get that third Eldritch Blast Attack. It is not 1d6+4. It is most likely 1d8+5. Though I made allowances for those that might not have fully maxed Dex as quick as possible by keeping the possibility of +4 as well. Which ups our Average Damage per attack to 8-9 damage. If you Use Dedicated Weapon. The 1d8 does apply to the short bow as well because you've made it a Monk Weapon making MA damage apply to it because Dedicated Weapon circumvents the restriction against Monk Weapons only being Melee weapons.
True, the damage isn't that different before level 11, even if eldritch blast + Hex has a higher ceiling for damage, and better damage on crits. But those are admittedly small considerations.
Further. You are completely incorrect on Eldritch Blast having Increased Crit Range. There is nothing the increases Eldritch Blasts ability to crit that does not work for MA or even the Short bow. Your Trying to imply that HexBlades curse is an advantage specifically to Eldritch Blast and it's not
Me, in the post you are responding to "but if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character."
On the Matter of Switching Weapons, On any other Character besides a Monk this is far more of a concern.
Its far more of a concern for the monk now than ever, with the expansion to monk weapons. Maybe you would be willing to pass up on practically using a d10 or d8 weapon to always have your ranged option ready, at least for the start of any combat.
Furthermore, It is not the Opening Turn where this becomes an issue for most any character.
RAW, what a character has equipped in a situation dictates what they have out. Putting away a staff or sword to pull out out a bow takes up the action and the free interaction for drawing a weapon.
But that is kind of a dumb rule, and I prefer tables that ignore it.
Finally. your secret is not a secret. I never said that you weren't proficient. My point which does not change because of your snark about proficiency does not change. It does not actually require any more investment than a bit of gold to get a short bow and some arrows. It still does require an investment and an affect on your gaining of abilities to take not only 1 but two levels of Warlock.
Yeah. Of course its an investment. Read the title of the thread. Its about getting devil sight on a monk; there is only two ways to do that. Take spell casting from another class and pick up the eldritch adept feat, or take 2 levels of warlock.
Im not claiming that would be the perfect monk. Im just saying it could be fun for a shadow monk who wants to spam darkness, and not dreadfully underpowered.
The point of this thread is not to make Devil's Sight to work or to talk it up and talk other things down. It's a question on if it does work and if it is worth it. The Reality is that no it does not work. No it's not really worth it. And Attempts to try and make it worth it are going to cost you in a variety of ways and not really necessarily be worth it either. Two Level's of Warlock are decent for Rule of Cool. But Rule of Cool isn't what was asked about or for.
You don't think Devil's sight works on a shadow monk? Seems like an odd claim. They can get it, and they can see in their casting of Darkness. It checks out there.
As to whether it would be worth it, I'll just point you to your own arguments. Adding an average of +3 to your hit chance through advantage is pretty worthwhile, whether you are using your fists, your bow, or an eldritch blast.
And Rule of Cool is about bending rules for cool moments. This build is rules legit.
And I notice that you didn't really mention anything about the naked prison break and having eldritch blast and MA. Do you at least agree it would fill the one shortcoming a monk might have in that scenario?
I play a 9th level Shadow Monk in our current campaign. Instead of an ASI, I took the feat Eldritch Adept and picked up Devil's Sight after clearing it with the DM. I figured the combo of Eldritch Sight and Darkness would be unstoppable, even OP especially since we have a Hexblade Warlock in our group. I had visions of the two of us being a shock commando team, wiping up the bad guys. It has NOT turned out that way. The darkness being so large an area has made it difficult to use without blinding the other party members. I use it much less than I expected I would. I only combo it maybe once every 3 or 4 games. I've actually used silence on the backline magic users more. Also, I find being a Monk and dipping into other classes not to be great. Monks get so many great things, especially at each level after 6th, it's hard to pass up. If you want Devil's Sight, take the feat Eldritch Adept. Don't multiclass into Warlock. If you REALLY want to multiclass, take 1 level of Fighter and take the fighting style Blind Fighting and save your ASI for increasing Dex or Wis. That way you'll also get Second Wind which is great for a Monk. Just be sure to take Monk first, then the multiclass. Or multiclass 2 levels into Rogue for Cunning Action. Remember, if you multiclass, though, that's KI points you don't get and that will hurt, especially in your early levels
How much does blinding allies really matter though? It messes with spells that require sight, sure, but any disadvantage on attack rolls are nullified by the opponent also being blinded.
it's more than just that. They often don't know what squares to target to know if that role they are making even has a chance to hit. or if they are shooting the arrow in the right direction or things like that. There is more to being blind than just the rules for Obscured. There is a lot of visual information that is lost and may take rolls just to aproximate. You often don't just hinder just your parties ability to see for a straight role. You often hinder their party to even target the enemy. Which is something that often gets missed. And just one of the many reasons why the whole "Darkness spell as a combat tool" Sounds cool. But functions poorly, Even when you solve it for yourself in the party. The whole disadvantage for not seeing the target but advantage because they can't see the attack coming thing only comes into play when you can actually manage to aim at the right square.
Yeah, it is a headache to DM.
Nothing in the rules specifically say you do not know where the enemy is enough to just know where they are through context clues. The Unseen Attacker part of the rules makes as if another rule requiring it exists, but its never stated a DM needs to run perception checks. But that feels tedious and rules' lawyery.
But surely a 15 radius isn't too debilitating to the team in most situations?
Oh. Now you want to get the math correct. When before you were saying a +1 vs a +5. Because you realized that the gap is much bigger than you said.
a +4 is Half of a +8. Which is what a +5 would give at level 5. That's where half comes from. But now your avoiding the hyperbolic to attack me when I point out the falsety in your claiming that the differences are small. This would be a 20% difference. Sure. And I'm full aware of that. That's double 20% that the +4 is giving you. Because while it's a 20% difference between the two. It's not necessarily actually a 20% difference like I said. That plus 7 to plus 8 modifier is basically double the +3 to +4 modifier.
The game isn't designed assuming someone can attain +5 in a stat by level 5. If we are going to generously roll up stats, why not assume the monk put even just a 14 or 16 in Char, thinking they might go that route?
I moved to talking about a level 5 character because its simpler than discussing post level 11, the time when the ranged attacks would be noticeably changed (and where campaigns generally tend to be rushing to a conclusion).
And the difference will always only be 5% per increase in Dex. Its a 20% in hit chance even if it is technically a 100% increase in the raw number. But focusing on that 100% number really exaggerates the increase in hit chance. You still roll a di to determine the actual hit.
Further. It's 3 attacks because I didn't limit it to ranged. In fact for most of the comparison I didn't make that limitation. I made a comparison between MA and Eldritch Blast. Your limiting it to the short bow. Not me. But MA is primarily not ranged so that's a smoke screen limitation to make a false comparison when you insist that it has to be a bow. Thus that means that the Monk with MA is primarily 3 attacks (2 Attack Action Attacks and 1 Bonus Action attack) for MA exactly like i said when all your doing is comparing attacks and damage.
Well I obviously did limit it to range by calling it a nice ranged option to have on hand. Why would you ever want to fire eldritch blast at someone at disadvantage in melee range? And when did I say we should plan out a monk who never throws a punch? You're arguing a strawman there.
Your also incorrect that there is no way to get 3 attacks with a short bow. Focused AIM if you wish it can give you 3 attacks with a short bow
The goofy thing is, you can use Focused Aim for Eldritch blasts too. I did not realize that until I went back to read up Focused Aim. Its kind of dumb though, since it burns through ki at an exorbitant rate, and a monk who took 2 levels of Warlock wouldn't have it at level 5 for our comparison anyways. But lets just recognize that even a level 5 monk only has 5 ki points anyways... so they will get to abuse Focused Aim for only one turn per combat, and not get to do much else with ki.
Further 1d10 and 1d6 is not bigger than 1d6+4(or +5) 1d10+1d6 is is 5+3=8 total average damage. I had already stated that 1d6+4(or +5) was 7-8 average damage. They are the same. This sort of matches at level 5. But at level 11 when you'd get that third Eldritch Blast Attack. It is not 1d6+4. It is most likely 1d8+5. Though I made allowances for those that might not have fully maxed Dex as quick as possible by keeping the possibility of +4 as well. Which ups our Average Damage per attack to 8-9 damage. If you Use Dedicated Weapon. The 1d8 does apply to the short bow as well because you've made it a Monk Weapon making MA damage apply to it because Dedicated Weapon circumvents the restriction against Monk Weapons only being Melee weapons.
True, the damage isn't that different before level 11, even if eldritch blast + Hex has a higher ceiling for damage, and better damage on crits. But those are admittedly small considerations.
Further. You are completely incorrect on Eldritch Blast having Increased Crit Range. There is nothing the increases Eldritch Blasts ability to crit that does not work for MA or even the Short bow. Your Trying to imply that HexBlades curse is an advantage specifically to Eldritch Blast and it's not
Me, in the post you are responding to "but if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character."
On the Matter of Switching Weapons, On any other Character besides a Monk this is far more of a concern.
Its far more of a concern for the monk now than ever, with the expansion to monk weapons. Maybe you would be willing to pass up on practically using a d10 or d8 weapon to always have your ranged option ready, at least for the start of any combat.
Furthermore, It is not the Opening Turn where this becomes an issue for most any character.
RAW, what a character has equipped in a situation dictates what they have out. Putting away a staff or sword to pull out out a bow takes up the action and the free interaction for drawing a weapon.
But that is kind of a dumb rule, and I prefer tables that ignore it.
Finally. your secret is not a secret. I never said that you weren't proficient. My point which does not change because of your snark about proficiency does not change. It does not actually require any more investment than a bit of gold to get a short bow and some arrows. It still does require an investment and an affect on your gaining of abilities to take not only 1 but two levels of Warlock.
Yeah. Of course its an investment. Read the title of the thread. Its about getting devil sight on a monk; there is only two ways to do that. Take spell casting from another class and pick up the eldritch adept feat, or take 2 levels of warlock.
Im not claiming that would be the perfect monk. Im just saying it could be fun for a shadow monk who wants to spam darkness, and not dreadfully underpowered.
The point of this thread is not to make Devil's Sight to work or to talk it up and talk other things down. It's a question on if it does work and if it is worth it. The Reality is that no it does not work. No it's not really worth it. And Attempts to try and make it worth it are going to cost you in a variety of ways and not really necessarily be worth it either. Two Level's of Warlock are decent for Rule of Cool. But Rule of Cool isn't what was asked about or for.
You don't think Devil's sight works on a shadow monk? Seems like an odd claim. They can get it, and they can see in their casting of Darkness. It checks out there.
As to whether it would be worth it, I'll just point you to your own arguments. Adding an average of +3 to your hit chance through advantage is pretty worthwhile, whether you are using your fists, your bow, or an eldritch blast.
And Rule of Cool is about bending rules for cool moments. This build is rules legit.
And I notice that you didn't really mention anything about the naked prison break and having eldritch blast and MA. Do you at least agree it would fill the one shortcoming a monk might have in that scenario?
So now it's unrealistic you say? Now the math is problematic and difference because your not the one using arbitrary forms of it to push your point?
Do you not see the problem with your selective behavior over everything? This whole rant suggests that you don't. That you don't understand the sheer double standard that your pushing with this argument. All these reasons that the way I did things was wrong but it was ok when you did it. You started with arguing for that +5. Using it as an example at all levels whether it was fully fitting by the balance of the game or not when it was being used in favor of your chosen version of play and supporting it's "Superiority" in play as a choice.
That 100% difference in actual percentage actually makes a lot of difference. Quit Marginalizing it. Quit giving all kinds of unfounded excuses why it's not. It's not just the die roll that matters. The Number that your rolling against is also greatly important. I picked 15 on purpose. Because It shows the difference while keeping it somewhat realistic at low level. However the Issue of that 20% is far more obvious if I had picked 20AC. Because that wipes out all of those digits on the die that don't actually matter what they are because they aren't lower than 15. The number that turns that +1 when combined with a proficiency of +3 to requiring a 16 instead of 11 despite the fact that the number you had to roll against only increased by 5. While that +8 means that a 12 needs to be rolled. I could have argued this from the beginning and you clearly would have complained that "20 AC isn't realistic". Yet the higher the level that you get. The more realistic it actually is. However when it comes to practicality in game, this Difference is exactly why various things that increase accuracy to offset the major negative modifier from GWM and SharpShooter are valued so highly. Because this difference in modifier values does matter. Even at low level. And even when we take into account that the game is balanced towards a lower to hit needed. That does not stop anybody from arguing in favor of +5's as early as possible and every damage addative they can think of. Including trying to find ways to get things like a 20 in a stat by level 4 despite the fact that it's not necessarily needed.
Further. No. Your calling it a nice ranged option Does not in any way limit comparisons to ranged. This is a false equivalence. This is the true straw man argument here. This is just highlighting an advantage of having it. But not only does it not limit the comparisons to ranged but it's not necessarily as nice as your saying when you consider all the other factors. Which I've laid out several of them.
But even more than that. Hex Blades Curse does not increase ability to hit. It has a small chance of increasing damage occasionally thorugh the 19 to 20 crit. Trying to argue yet again that Hex Blades Curse improves Accuracy is a lie. So you can only be talking about damage when your talking about Hex Blades curse. The reason being that realistically at all but the highest levels a roll of 19 is almost never a miss to be turned into a hit by it being in your critical range. You realistically have to be attacking against an AC of 24+ at level 5 to hit that point and against an AC of 32+ at max level. Numbers that are so rare they might as well be labeled impossible. Sure a shield spell or something on the right character might be able to do it. But anything that isn't a class based creature or particularly home made by the DM will not be able to reach those numbers normally even with a shield spell. So unless your party are a bunch of min-maxers and your actually planning on attacking your party at some point. This is not a true evaluation nor is it actually a concern to be considered.
If you want to talk about damage. Sure. It can get you a little more damage by having a little extra crit. But that doesn't invalidate my pointed out fact that it doesn't just apply to eldritch blast even though you applied it to that spell only in favor of Eldritch Blast over other forms of combat. And for that Matter if we're going to get into it again. Hex does not only apply to Eldritch Blast Either. Which means that even if you took 2 levels of Hexblade Warlock. Eldritch Blast with a crappy +1 Charisma is not your best choice. The Short Bow with the better modifier and the damage from Hex is actually better. But I didn't think that I had to point this out. consdering that the Bow is actually doing just as well as Eldritch Blast without Hex it should have been obvious that it's going to do better with Hex. 1d6+1d6+4 (or +5) is going to be 10-11 average damage versus the 8 average damage of EB+Hex.
A little known fact about the Warlock because everybody is caught up on Eldritch Blast and just how awesome it is. Is that A Pact of the Blade Warlock with a bow can do as much damage in 2 shots of a long bow as all 4 blasts of eldritch blast when the only hex added into the mix. Sometimes more. And It pulls it off at level 12 rather than level 17 with an average damage of 18-28 per shot Depending on if you have sharp shooter damage in that particular shot or not. Before any bonuses for magical bows. Meaning that in just 2 shots they are doing 36-56 damage with room to do more. 4 hits from eldritch blast at a +5 bonus is only 10 average damage per hit. Meaning that if all 4 land you have an average of 40 damage. The best you can add on additional to Eldritch Blast to improve it from there is Hexblades curse which is going to net you an additional 2-6 damage per hit depending on your level and it's only against one target per short rest (I double checked and it has no mechanic to move it like hex), But the short bow can not only get that additional proficiency based damage but also bonus damage from magical weapons meaning a +1 to +3 in basic as well. Which basically means at 17th level when you have all 4 blasts. EB does jump up to 64 average damage if all 4 hit against the same target in optimal conditions. The Bow on the other hand which is decently likely to be +3 by that time (and may possess other damaging rider abilities) is doing an additional 16 damage for a total of 52-72 average damage a turn under those same conditions (and likely leaning towards the 72 thanks to the magical weapon offsetting much of sharp shooters negative modifier).
I point this out because if you are weapon focused. Then even on the Warlock EB is not the strongest option. It's great if you are spell caster based so your likely not Pact of the Blade and your likely not Hexblade. So it's a strong staple for your average warlock to rely on but pact of the blade Warlocks can do better. So if your focusing on Weapons with your Shadow monk for your fighting. Even if you take 2 levels of Warlock. Why would you want EB really except for maybe at the highest levels so that your ranged option matches what your main option can do instead of being weaker? Even if you took 2 levels of Warlock. If your looking to maximize that ranged, even at low level, Take Improved Pact Weapon for the +1 attack and damage on the bow. you can summon it out of nothing for an action. But you can dismiss it for no action. Which just means yet another way to consider for lessening the burden of weapon switching if you choose and if you don't unsummon it or let it get too far from you for too long. And I'm sure there are other synergies that I'm forgetting.
Also. on the further subject of Weapon Switching. It's not more of a concern than ever on monks. The reason being that It wasn't a big concern to begin with. Throwing Ranged in does not somehow make it more of a concern. The Character is either going to primarily be melee and only use Range in specific circumstances. Or it's going to turn primarily ranged and only need a backup weapon for when it gets into melee. This doesn't create this big need for weapon switching. Even if they change this on the fly in the middle of combat. The biggest reason being that they are never weaponless and thus impotent without a weapon like other characters. So they can choose to hold onto that bow and deal Martial Arts damage, which by a certain level is going to match weapon damage as often as not as a shadow Monk. They can choose to drop that bow once they've engaged and go with their primary form of combat in weapon damage and retrieve it later, Or they can primarily stay at ranged where a melee weapon becomes much less of a problem because of their superior movement capabilities with little reason to ever get in close range combat for the weapon damage to actually make any significant difference since it would be a rare occurence, Which incidentally is exactly what Kensai archer's do already. Stay primarily at Range and find ways through their ki to fire their bow a third time on their bonus action, Which they have better built in ways of doing than the shadow monk.
Ironically. As much as Warlock and Monk are both classes that actually thrive to a fair extent on following them straight through. If you know a game is going to level 20. a 5 level multi-class into monk is a way to power up the already very powerful bow wielding Pact of the Blade Warlock by adding ki Feuled Strike and focused aim into their arsenal so that they can get a 3rd shot off with the bow for 5 turns.
Finally. no it's not odd. Your so caught up in rule of cool. You fail to see that the whole thing is selfish. Not as practical or useful as it's made out to be. And it's coolness factor wears off so far that it quickly just becomes annoying to anybody but those that either has any consideration for the rest of their party or has had the chance to play it out for a bit to see how it goes wrong for the player. it blocks out all of the rest of your party from a large part of the battlefield unless they have ways to deal with it. Which is not necessarily likely. It stops you from being able to be healed. Doesn't protect you from anything AoE. And it's size is not small. 15 food radius means that it's a giant 30' circle. It's an entire round of movement. Assuming nothing gets in your way. So all the enemies can't be attacked beyond it by your party. They can't reliably be attacked in it by anybody but you more than likely. you can't be healed if they manage to hit you back because your healer can't find you. Your Party is likely to not really likely if you do it more than a couple times. specially in most places that you'd really likely want to use it. Like the middle of the battlefield or in somewhat tight corridors to force them into the darkness. It is heavily debilitating to most adventuring groups in many environments. it's not niche where it's problematic. Making it work in ways that doesn't debilitate your party either makes the usage ineffective or takes to much effort to make it worth it.
It is literally one of those ideas that sounds cool in theory. But it loses all of that and just becomes frustrating for all but the one character doing it in practice. And if the player of that character cares about their group and getting help from them then they suddenly have a build they can't really use. And players have joined this thread to express basically that.
As for the very niche naked prison break? It's not worth talking about. Specially on a Shadow Monk. Shadow Monks are basically purpose built to make prison breaks a joke even more than clever rogues. They have pass without Trace and usually a good stealth skill. Unless your dice rolls really suck and are trying to get you killed or your obsessed with fighting your way out. The Shadow Monk and/or the Rogue are just going to go find the parties gear and bring it back and they aren't going to be fighting naked. But the EB doesn't really bring anything to the table for fighting naked anyway. The Monk is already purpose built for finding naked and the combat in such scenario's is almost always short range. Your very unlikely to be sniping guards off with EB and even if you do the bodies are probably likely to be found for some reason, not to mention trying to do so breaks your stealth which could inadvertently get you spotted as well. The easiest way to do it is to just use your super stealth. Figure out where the parties gear is. Bring it back to them, or enough of it to be able to have a real fighting chance and then escape. If you don't have to worry about clunky non-stealthy party members. Escape prison and do your best to never give them any clue how you did it just in case and be done with the whole encounter, fighting is usually not required and your unlikely to leave your stuff behind.
D&D Beyond lets you take Eldritch Adept for the shadow monk as a feat.
D&D Beyond does not allow you to swap out your Psionic Sorcery spells on an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. Does that mean that Aberrant Mind sorcerers cannot do this? No. It's just a limitation of the character builder.
But it gives me good talking points with DM, as an action you can spend 2 Ki points to CAST darkness, darkvision, pass with out trace , or silence, in my opinion that makes you a SPELLCASTER right?
But it gives me good talking points with DM, as an action you can spend 2 Ki points to CAST darkness, darkvision, pass with out trace , or silence, in my opinion that makes you a SPELLCASTER right?
A Barbarian can take the Magic Initiate feat and spam cantrips all day long. Does that make the Barbarian a spellcaster?
But it gives me good talking points with DM, as an action you can spend 2 Ki points to CAST darkness, darkvision, pass with out trace , or silence, in my opinion that makes you a SPELLCASTER right?
The feat requires either the spell casting feature or pact magic feature not just the ability to cast spells. Look at the monk. Do you see anywhere on the monk table under the features column that says “spellcasting”? Or “Pact Magic”? If you do then you can take Eldritch Adept, if not, you can’t.
True, your DM can overrule that pre-requisite (its already been done officially for classes that were released as race specific). Or you could even take a level of cleric to make the point moot.
RAW and RAI, you are supposed to have the spellcasting feature, but Beyond doesn't recognize feat pre-requisites. An alternative is getting blind sight from the Fighter feat in Tasha's.
Its still probably not worth it for a shadow monk though. Darkness itself is a pretty rough spell to depend on since it messes with the rest of the party, especially spellcasters. It gums up everything to depend on surrounding an enemy in darkness as some constant strategy you would grab a feat to make work.
I would suggest not taking a feat to see in darkness. Casting darkness on an enemy to wail on them in melee is much less useful than casting darkness near them to teleport to/from and hide in between turns, and you don't need special vision for that. Even if you do fight an enemy in Darkness, if they lack special sight you both just attack normally.
Is it too OP? No, monks are one of the weaker classes in the game due to their reliance on ki and flurry of blows to keep up damage wise with the other martials. There are ways to remedy this such as with an eldritch claw tattoo, but otherwise monks are far from oppressive.
Your mileage may vary as there are many different combat situations, in some where darkness may be very beneficial, but there are a few drawbacks to consider: In my experience combat tends to last 3-4 rounds tops, if you cast darkness the first round you're sacrificing maybe one of three rounds you could be dealing damage. You might be more reliable the two next rounds but most likely your damage over the whole encounter would have been higher if you had just attacked instead. Monks don't get proficiency in con saves before very late in the game, meaning if you are especially unlucky you might not get to take advantage of the darkness before you've lost concentration, even then you might not be able to keep it up for more than one round. It's also going to mess up with the abilities of your teammates just as much as your enemies, to the point where it can neuter their abilities.
You're also sacrificing your ability score increases to pick up the feat. If you are using point buy and start with a 16 in dexterity and wisdom this means you won't reach the cap of those abilities before level 19, or in most cases before the game is over.
I've played both with fighter / shadow monk and Shadow Monk / Warlock. Playing a monk means I wanted the character in melee anyway, so wouldn't consider eldritch blast even a reason to do this.
By going fighter first to get the con save this character was much more powerful, as there was little risk of darkness going down. Overall I thought this was better than the Warlock. The advantages to the warlock where the Shield spell, devils sight, and hexblade's curse. The other reason to try the Warlock was rolled stats and half drow that allowed the charisma to be pumped. But I certainly wouldn't be putting more into Charisma to use EB - simply not efficient.
The multiclassing is better than taking the feat I feat anyway, as it's a small dip and you need the ASI for your abilities. Also, by taking fighter you are now a longsword wielding death dealer...and you can attack two handed with it while busting out knees caps with kicks. Finally the battlemaster using riposte and brace to get extra attacks.
I've played both with fighter / shadow monk and Shadow Monk / Warlock. Playing a monk means I wanted the character in melee anyway, so wouldn't consider eldritch blast even a reason to do this.
By going fighter first to get the con save this character was much more powerful, as there was little risk of darkness going down. Overall I thought this was better than the Warlock. The advantages to the warlock where the Shield spell, devils sight, and hexblade's curse. The other reason to try the Warlock was rolled stats and half drow that allowed the charisma to be pumped. But I certainly wouldn't be putting more into Charisma to use EB - simply not efficient.
The multiclassing is better than taking the feat I feat anyway, as it's a small dip and you need the ASI for your abilities. Also, by taking fighter you are now a longsword wielding death dealer...and you can attack two handed with it while busting out knees caps with kicks. Finally the battlemaster using riposte and brace to get extra attacks.
I find the idea interesting, unfortunately on the level of Ability Scores distribution it is inefficient. I would almost be more inclined in taking the ranger class with Druidic Warrior fighting style. Although the ranger spells of 1st level and higher are only rechargeable with long rest.
Unfortunately, feats in dnd 5e are unfair, designed only for certain classes and make the game unbalanced. This above all for classes that in principle are MAD and have little chance to acquire them. So in some cases, yes, a multiclass is better than a feat, but this does not apply to all classes.
Thank you all for your feedback, I have decided to go with Way of the Openhand , so no magic is involved. What do you think of takibng a Level of Rogue and when would you do it?
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It matters when your spell casters w/o Devil's Sight need to see a target, and then there's the part about ticking of your fellow players. Your mileage may vary
Oh. Now you want to get the math correct. When before you were saying a +1 vs a +5. Because you realized that the gap is much bigger than you said.
a +4 is Half of a +8. Which is what a +5 would give at level 5. That's where half comes from. But now your avoiding the hyperbolic to attack me when I point out the falsety in your claiming that the differences are small. This would be a 20% difference. Sure. And I'm full aware of that. That's double 20% that the +4 is giving you. Because while it's a 20% difference between the two. It's not necessarily actually a 20% difference like I said. That plus 7 to plus 8 modifier is basically double the +3 to +4 modifier.
Further. It's 3 attacks because I didn't limit it to ranged. In fact for most of the comparison I didn't make that limitation. I made a comparison between MA and Eldritch Blast. Your limiting it to the short bow. Not me. But MA is primarily not ranged so that's a smoke screen limitation to make a false comparison when you insist that it has to be a bow. Thus that means that the Monk with MA is primarily 3 attacks (2 Attack Action Attacks and 1 Bonus Action attack) for MA exactly like i said when all your doing is comparing attacks and damage.
Your also incorrect that there is no way to get 3 attacks with a short bow. Focused AIM if you wish it can give you 3 attacks with a short bow. You only have to use it once on a single attack. Regardless of if you need the actual +2 to the attack or not. This one expenditure of Ki is enough to use Ki Fueled strike to make a 3rd bow attack. So it is entirely possible to have 3 attacks even with your inserted limitation of the short bow. though again. I was not working under the short bow limitation to begin with in my analysis and that should be obvious in the way I stated several things. Including bringing up the short bow and mentioning that Eldritch Blasts only advantage would be ranged. Not the other things you said.
Further 1d10 and 1d6 is not bigger than 1d6+4(or +5) 1d10+1d6 is is 5+3=8 total average damage. I had already stated that 1d6+4(or +5) was 7-8 average damage. They are the same. This sort of matches at level 5. But at level 11 when you'd get that third Eldritch Blast Attack. It is not 1d6+4. It is most likely 1d8+5. Though I made allowances for those that might not have fully maxed Dex as quick as possible by keeping the possibility of +4 as well. Which ups our Average Damage per attack to 8-9 damage. If you Use Dedicated Weapon. The 1d8 does apply to the short bow as well because you've made it a Monk Weapon making MA damage apply to it because Dedicated Weapon circumvents the restriction against Monk Weapons only being Melee weapons.
Further. You are completely incorrect on Eldritch Blast having Increased Crit Range. There is nothing the increases Eldritch Blasts ability to crit that does not work for MA or even the Short bow. Your Trying to imply that HexBlades curse is an advantage specifically to Eldritch Blast and it's not, nor does it apply to all targets that you might want to attack or guarantee that you will have it available for combat. If you were trying to imply this increased Chance to Crit is from Advantage. Then that is a false comparison because there are lots of ways to get advantage. Some of them even possessed by the Monk that are not compatible with Eldritch Blast. So there is no actual improvement to Crit Chance for Eldritch Blast over The Shadow Monk using MA, or Even the Bow really. If your trying to imply that Eldritch Blast gets a single instance of Advantage automatically to all of it's multiple attacks. You would be entirely mistaken on this front as well because there is nothing in the wording of Eldritch Blast that makes them Simultaneous. This means that by RaW Only one of the attacks would get the Advantage Modifier. If your going to attempt to use Jeremy Crawford to try to refute this. Be aware that not only is what he says on Twitter only Semi-Official at Best but he has actually ruled on it both ways on various spells that all work in the same fashion as Eldritch Blast.
On the Matter of Switching Weapons, On any other Character besides a Monk this is far more of a concern. But the Monk is Always armed and does not need both hands free to make unarmed attacks with Martial Arts. So not only do they take one hand off of the Bow when they are not using it to attack. But they don't actually need their hands to make Martial Arts hits. This need to switch is not a problem that is somehow unique and extra burdening to the monk. It's actually less of a burden to the monk than to other classes for this predictable instance. And it's a problem that becomes even less of an issue as their damage dice goes up because most if not all of the reason to need to switch to another weapon tends to get negated. Furthermore, It is not the Opening Turn where this becomes an issue for most any character. Weapon Switching Only becomes a complication for Successive Turns. So for the Opening Turn it is just as easy for a Monk to draw their bow and make attacks with it as it is to draw a staff and then use one hand to cast Eldritch Blast. So this is another way that your representation of the situation is not quite correct.
Finally. your secret is not a secret. I never said that you weren't proficient. My point which does not change because of your snark about proficiency does not change. It does not actually require any more investment than a bit of gold to get a short bow and some arrows. It still does require an investment and an affect on your gaining of abilities to take not only 1 but two levels of Warlock.
The point of this thread is not to make Devil's Sight to work or to talk it up and talk other things down. It's a question on if it does work and if it is worth it. The Reality is that no it does not work. No it's not really worth it. And Attempts to try and make it worth it are going to cost you in a variety of ways and not really necessarily be worth it either. Two Level's of Warlock are decent for Rule of Cool. But Rule of Cool isn't what was asked about or for.
it's more than just that. They often don't know what squares to target to know if that role they are making even has a chance to hit. or if they are shooting the arrow in the right direction or things like that. There is more to being blind than just the rules for Obscured. There is a lot of visual information that is lost and may take rolls just to aproximate. You often don't just hinder just your parties ability to see for a straight role. You often hinder their party to even target the enemy. Which is something that often gets missed. And just one of the many reasons why the whole "Darkness spell as a combat tool" Sounds cool. But functions poorly, Even when you solve it for yourself in the party. The whole disadvantage for not seeing the target but advantage because they can't see the attack coming thing only comes into play when you can actually manage to aim at the right square.
The game isn't designed assuming someone can attain +5 in a stat by level 5. If we are going to generously roll up stats, why not assume the monk put even just a 14 or 16 in Char, thinking they might go that route?
I moved to talking about a level 5 character because its simpler than discussing post level 11, the time when the ranged attacks would be noticeably changed (and where campaigns generally tend to be rushing to a conclusion).
And the difference will always only be 5% per increase in Dex. Its a 20% in hit chance even if it is technically a 100% increase in the raw number. But focusing on that 100% number really exaggerates the increase in hit chance. You still roll a di to determine the actual hit.
Well I obviously did limit it to range by calling it a nice ranged option to have on hand. Why would you ever want to fire eldritch blast at someone at disadvantage in melee range? And when did I say we should plan out a monk who never throws a punch? You're arguing a strawman there.
The goofy thing is, you can use Focused Aim for Eldritch blasts too. I did not realize that until I went back to read up Focused Aim. Its kind of dumb though, since it burns through ki at an exorbitant rate, and a monk who took 2 levels of Warlock wouldn't have it at level 5 for our comparison anyways. But lets just recognize that even a level 5 monk only has 5 ki points anyways... so they will get to abuse Focused Aim for only one turn per combat, and not get to do much else with ki.
True, the damage isn't that different before level 11, even if eldritch blast + Hex has a higher ceiling for damage, and better damage on crits. But those are admittedly small considerations.
Me, in the post you are responding to "but if you are really focused on landing hits rather than dealing damage, hex and hex blade's curse help the monk with a shortbow too. Its still a plus for the character."
Its far more of a concern for the monk now than ever, with the expansion to monk weapons. Maybe you would be willing to pass up on practically using a d10 or d8 weapon to always have your ranged option ready, at least for the start of any combat.
RAW, what a character has equipped in a situation dictates what they have out. Putting away a staff or sword to pull out out a bow takes up the action and the free interaction for drawing a weapon.
But that is kind of a dumb rule, and I prefer tables that ignore it.
Yeah. Of course its an investment. Read the title of the thread. Its about getting devil sight on a monk; there is only two ways to do that. Take spell casting from another class and pick up the eldritch adept feat, or take 2 levels of warlock.
Im not claiming that would be the perfect monk. Im just saying it could be fun for a shadow monk who wants to spam darkness, and not dreadfully underpowered.
You don't think Devil's sight works on a shadow monk? Seems like an odd claim. They can get it, and they can see in their casting of Darkness. It checks out there.
As to whether it would be worth it, I'll just point you to your own arguments. Adding an average of +3 to your hit chance through advantage is pretty worthwhile, whether you are using your fists, your bow, or an eldritch blast.
And Rule of Cool is about bending rules for cool moments. This build is rules legit.
And I notice that you didn't really mention anything about the naked prison break and having eldritch blast and MA. Do you at least agree it would fill the one shortcoming a monk might have in that scenario?
Yeah, it is a headache to DM.
Nothing in the rules specifically say you do not know where the enemy is enough to just know where they are through context clues. The Unseen Attacker part of the rules makes as if another rule requiring it exists, but its never stated a DM needs to run perception checks. But that feels tedious and rules' lawyery.
But surely a 15 radius isn't too debilitating to the team in most situations?
So now it's unrealistic you say? Now the math is problematic and difference because your not the one using arbitrary forms of it to push your point?
Do you not see the problem with your selective behavior over everything? This whole rant suggests that you don't. That you don't understand the sheer double standard that your pushing with this argument. All these reasons that the way I did things was wrong but it was ok when you did it. You started with arguing for that +5. Using it as an example at all levels whether it was fully fitting by the balance of the game or not when it was being used in favor of your chosen version of play and supporting it's "Superiority" in play as a choice.
That 100% difference in actual percentage actually makes a lot of difference. Quit Marginalizing it. Quit giving all kinds of unfounded excuses why it's not. It's not just the die roll that matters. The Number that your rolling against is also greatly important. I picked 15 on purpose. Because It shows the difference while keeping it somewhat realistic at low level. However the Issue of that 20% is far more obvious if I had picked 20AC. Because that wipes out all of those digits on the die that don't actually matter what they are because they aren't lower than 15. The number that turns that +1 when combined with a proficiency of +3 to requiring a 16 instead of 11 despite the fact that the number you had to roll against only increased by 5. While that +8 means that a 12 needs to be rolled. I could have argued this from the beginning and you clearly would have complained that "20 AC isn't realistic". Yet the higher the level that you get. The more realistic it actually is. However when it comes to practicality in game, this Difference is exactly why various things that increase accuracy to offset the major negative modifier from GWM and SharpShooter are valued so highly. Because this difference in modifier values does matter. Even at low level. And even when we take into account that the game is balanced towards a lower to hit needed. That does not stop anybody from arguing in favor of +5's as early as possible and every damage addative they can think of. Including trying to find ways to get things like a 20 in a stat by level 4 despite the fact that it's not necessarily needed.
Further. No. Your calling it a nice ranged option Does not in any way limit comparisons to ranged. This is a false equivalence. This is the true straw man argument here. This is just highlighting an advantage of having it. But not only does it not limit the comparisons to ranged but it's not necessarily as nice as your saying when you consider all the other factors. Which I've laid out several of them.
But even more than that. Hex Blades Curse does not increase ability to hit. It has a small chance of increasing damage occasionally thorugh the 19 to 20 crit. Trying to argue yet again that Hex Blades Curse improves Accuracy is a lie. So you can only be talking about damage when your talking about Hex Blades curse. The reason being that realistically at all but the highest levels a roll of 19 is almost never a miss to be turned into a hit by it being in your critical range. You realistically have to be attacking against an AC of 24+ at level 5 to hit that point and against an AC of 32+ at max level. Numbers that are so rare they might as well be labeled impossible. Sure a shield spell or something on the right character might be able to do it. But anything that isn't a class based creature or particularly home made by the DM will not be able to reach those numbers normally even with a shield spell. So unless your party are a bunch of min-maxers and your actually planning on attacking your party at some point. This is not a true evaluation nor is it actually a concern to be considered.
If you want to talk about damage. Sure. It can get you a little more damage by having a little extra crit. But that doesn't invalidate my pointed out fact that it doesn't just apply to eldritch blast even though you applied it to that spell only in favor of Eldritch Blast over other forms of combat. And for that Matter if we're going to get into it again. Hex does not only apply to Eldritch Blast Either. Which means that even if you took 2 levels of Hexblade Warlock. Eldritch Blast with a crappy +1 Charisma is not your best choice. The Short Bow with the better modifier and the damage from Hex is actually better. But I didn't think that I had to point this out. consdering that the Bow is actually doing just as well as Eldritch Blast without Hex it should have been obvious that it's going to do better with Hex. 1d6+1d6+4 (or +5) is going to be 10-11 average damage versus the 8 average damage of EB+Hex.
A little known fact about the Warlock because everybody is caught up on Eldritch Blast and just how awesome it is. Is that A Pact of the Blade Warlock with a bow can do as much damage in 2 shots of a long bow as all 4 blasts of eldritch blast when the only hex added into the mix. Sometimes more. And It pulls it off at level 12 rather than level 17 with an average damage of 18-28 per shot Depending on if you have sharp shooter damage in that particular shot or not. Before any bonuses for magical bows. Meaning that in just 2 shots they are doing 36-56 damage with room to do more. 4 hits from eldritch blast at a +5 bonus is only 10 average damage per hit. Meaning that if all 4 land you have an average of 40 damage. The best you can add on additional to Eldritch Blast to improve it from there is Hexblades curse which is going to net you an additional 2-6 damage per hit depending on your level and it's only against one target per short rest (I double checked and it has no mechanic to move it like hex), But the short bow can not only get that additional proficiency based damage but also bonus damage from magical weapons meaning a +1 to +3 in basic as well. Which basically means at 17th level when you have all 4 blasts. EB does jump up to 64 average damage if all 4 hit against the same target in optimal conditions. The Bow on the other hand which is decently likely to be +3 by that time (and may possess other damaging rider abilities) is doing an additional 16 damage for a total of 52-72 average damage a turn under those same conditions (and likely leaning towards the 72 thanks to the magical weapon offsetting much of sharp shooters negative modifier).
I point this out because if you are weapon focused. Then even on the Warlock EB is not the strongest option. It's great if you are spell caster based so your likely not Pact of the Blade and your likely not Hexblade. So it's a strong staple for your average warlock to rely on but pact of the blade Warlocks can do better. So if your focusing on Weapons with your Shadow monk for your fighting. Even if you take 2 levels of Warlock. Why would you want EB really except for maybe at the highest levels so that your ranged option matches what your main option can do instead of being weaker? Even if you took 2 levels of Warlock. If your looking to maximize that ranged, even at low level, Take Improved Pact Weapon for the +1 attack and damage on the bow. you can summon it out of nothing for an action. But you can dismiss it for no action. Which just means yet another way to consider for lessening the burden of weapon switching if you choose and if you don't unsummon it or let it get too far from you for too long. And I'm sure there are other synergies that I'm forgetting.
Also. on the further subject of Weapon Switching. It's not more of a concern than ever on monks. The reason being that It wasn't a big concern to begin with. Throwing Ranged in does not somehow make it more of a concern. The Character is either going to primarily be melee and only use Range in specific circumstances. Or it's going to turn primarily ranged and only need a backup weapon for when it gets into melee. This doesn't create this big need for weapon switching. Even if they change this on the fly in the middle of combat. The biggest reason being that they are never weaponless and thus impotent without a weapon like other characters. So they can choose to hold onto that bow and deal Martial Arts damage, which by a certain level is going to match weapon damage as often as not as a shadow Monk. They can choose to drop that bow once they've engaged and go with their primary form of combat in weapon damage and retrieve it later, Or they can primarily stay at ranged where a melee weapon becomes much less of a problem because of their superior movement capabilities with little reason to ever get in close range combat for the weapon damage to actually make any significant difference since it would be a rare occurence, Which incidentally is exactly what Kensai archer's do already. Stay primarily at Range and find ways through their ki to fire their bow a third time on their bonus action, Which they have better built in ways of doing than the shadow monk.
Ironically. As much as Warlock and Monk are both classes that actually thrive to a fair extent on following them straight through. If you know a game is going to level 20. a 5 level multi-class into monk is a way to power up the already very powerful bow wielding Pact of the Blade Warlock by adding ki Feuled Strike and focused aim into their arsenal so that they can get a 3rd shot off with the bow for 5 turns.
Finally. no it's not odd. Your so caught up in rule of cool. You fail to see that the whole thing is selfish. Not as practical or useful as it's made out to be. And it's coolness factor wears off so far that it quickly just becomes annoying to anybody but those that either has any consideration for the rest of their party or has had the chance to play it out for a bit to see how it goes wrong for the player. it blocks out all of the rest of your party from a large part of the battlefield unless they have ways to deal with it. Which is not necessarily likely. It stops you from being able to be healed. Doesn't protect you from anything AoE. And it's size is not small. 15 food radius means that it's a giant 30' circle. It's an entire round of movement. Assuming nothing gets in your way. So all the enemies can't be attacked beyond it by your party. They can't reliably be attacked in it by anybody but you more than likely. you can't be healed if they manage to hit you back because your healer can't find you. Your Party is likely to not really likely if you do it more than a couple times. specially in most places that you'd really likely want to use it. Like the middle of the battlefield or in somewhat tight corridors to force them into the darkness. It is heavily debilitating to most adventuring groups in many environments. it's not niche where it's problematic. Making it work in ways that doesn't debilitate your party either makes the usage ineffective or takes to much effort to make it worth it.
It is literally one of those ideas that sounds cool in theory. But it loses all of that and just becomes frustrating for all but the one character doing it in practice. And if the player of that character cares about their group and getting help from them then they suddenly have a build they can't really use. And players have joined this thread to express basically that.
As for the very niche naked prison break? It's not worth talking about. Specially on a Shadow Monk. Shadow Monks are basically purpose built to make prison breaks a joke even more than clever rogues. They have pass without Trace and usually a good stealth skill. Unless your dice rolls really suck and are trying to get you killed or your obsessed with fighting your way out. The Shadow Monk and/or the Rogue are just going to go find the parties gear and bring it back and they aren't going to be fighting naked. But the EB doesn't really bring anything to the table for fighting naked anyway. The Monk is already purpose built for finding naked and the combat in such scenario's is almost always short range. Your very unlikely to be sniping guards off with EB and even if you do the bodies are probably likely to be found for some reason, not to mention trying to do so breaks your stealth which could inadvertently get you spotted as well. The easiest way to do it is to just use your super stealth. Figure out where the parties gear is. Bring it back to them, or enough of it to be able to have a real fighting chance and then escape. If you don't have to worry about clunky non-stealthy party members. Escape prison and do your best to never give them any clue how you did it just in case and be done with the whole encounter, fighting is usually not required and your unlikely to leave your stuff behind.
D&D Beyond lets you take Eldritch Adept for the shadow monk as a feat.
What ddb programming allows you to put on a character sheet is not a valid source of evidence to base a ruling on.
D&D Beyond does not allow you to swap out your Psionic Sorcery spells on an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. Does that mean that Aberrant Mind sorcerers cannot do this? No. It's just a limitation of the character builder.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
You could take a level in cleric for the spell casting feature to get eldritch adept and choose something like death so you get more tanky.
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
But it gives me good talking points with DM, as an action you can spend 2 Ki points to CAST darkness, darkvision, pass with out trace , or silence, in my opinion that makes you a SPELLCASTER right?
A Barbarian can take the Magic Initiate feat and spam cantrips all day long. Does that make the Barbarian a spellcaster?
The feat requires either the spell casting feature or pact magic feature not just the ability to cast spells. Look at the monk. Do you see anywhere on the monk table under the features column that says “spellcasting”? Or “Pact Magic”? If you do then you can take Eldritch Adept, if not, you can’t.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It all ends up in my DM's Hands anyways.
True, your DM can overrule that pre-requisite (its already been done officially for classes that were released as race specific). Or you could even take a level of cleric to make the point moot.
RAW and RAI, you are supposed to have the spellcasting feature, but Beyond doesn't recognize feat pre-requisites. An alternative is getting blind sight from the Fighter feat in Tasha's.
Its still probably not worth it for a shadow monk though. Darkness itself is a pretty rough spell to depend on since it messes with the rest of the party, especially spellcasters. It gums up everything to depend on surrounding an enemy in darkness as some constant strategy you would grab a feat to make work.
I would suggest not taking a feat to see in darkness. Casting darkness on an enemy to wail on them in melee is much less useful than casting darkness near them to teleport to/from and hide in between turns, and you don't need special vision for that. Even if you do fight an enemy in Darkness, if they lack special sight you both just attack normally.
Is it too OP? No, monks are one of the weaker classes in the game due to their reliance on ki and flurry of blows to keep up damage wise with the other martials. There are ways to remedy this such as with an eldritch claw tattoo, but otherwise monks are far from oppressive.
Your mileage may vary as there are many different combat situations, in some where darkness may be very beneficial, but there are a few drawbacks to consider: In my experience combat tends to last 3-4 rounds tops, if you cast darkness the first round you're sacrificing maybe one of three rounds you could be dealing damage. You might be more reliable the two next rounds but most likely your damage over the whole encounter would have been higher if you had just attacked instead. Monks don't get proficiency in con saves before very late in the game, meaning if you are especially unlucky you might not get to take advantage of the darkness before you've lost concentration, even then you might not be able to keep it up for more than one round. It's also going to mess up with the abilities of your teammates just as much as your enemies, to the point where it can neuter their abilities.
You're also sacrificing your ability score increases to pick up the feat. If you are using point buy and start with a 16 in dexterity and wisdom this means you won't reach the cap of those abilities before level 19, or in most cases before the game is over.
Finish the quote...
"Shadow Arts. Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells.".
Duplicate is the key word that precludes true spellcasting. You are creating the effects by tapping into the Shadowfell, not arcane or divine magic.
I've played both with fighter / shadow monk and Shadow Monk / Warlock. Playing a monk means I wanted the character in melee anyway, so wouldn't consider eldritch blast even a reason to do this.
By going fighter first to get the con save this character was much more powerful, as there was little risk of darkness going down. Overall I thought this was better than the Warlock. The advantages to the warlock where the Shield spell, devils sight, and hexblade's curse. The other reason to try the Warlock was rolled stats and half drow that allowed the charisma to be pumped. But I certainly wouldn't be putting more into Charisma to use EB - simply not efficient.
The multiclassing is better than taking the feat I feat anyway, as it's a small dip and you need the ASI for your abilities. Also, by taking fighter you are now a longsword wielding death dealer...and you can attack two handed with it while busting out knees caps with kicks. Finally the battlemaster using riposte and brace to get extra attacks.
I find the idea interesting, unfortunately on the level of Ability Scores distribution it is inefficient. I would almost be more inclined in taking the ranger class with Druidic Warrior fighting style. Although the ranger spells of 1st level and higher are only rechargeable with long rest.
Unfortunately, feats in dnd 5e are unfair, designed only for certain classes and make the game unbalanced. This above all for classes that in principle are MAD and have little chance to acquire them. So in some cases, yes, a multiclass is better than a feat, but this does not apply to all classes.
Thank you all for your feedback, I have decided to go with Way of the Openhand , so no magic is involved. What do you think of takibng a Level of Rogue and when would you do it?