I'm relatively new to D&D (I've only been to three sessions so far), and at my last one, I created a half-orc paladin named Asuzall. Long story short, he's chaotic good and worships Tyr, who, if you don't know, is very lawful good. How should I handle it? Should I embrace my differences? Since I will probably take the Oath of Devotion, I will have to follow its tenets. Most of them are understandable... except for Honesty. If I lie to get myself out of a sticky situation, must I seek absolution or become an Oathbreaker? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Hi Zev! I.C. Is correct mechanically. In terms of game lore you and your DM will have to decide what would constitute a violation to your oath and whether your alignment would prohibit it. First ask yourself what makes Asuzall Chaotic? Does he have an inability to follow laws, or just laws he sees as unjust? If he entered a tyrants kingdom would he try to lead an army or a rebellion? Rebellions are chaotic messy affairs. Does this make him the sort to be on guard outside the temple in the holy city? Obviously no, or at least not for long as he might wander off after seeing 'injustice' when the apple cart merchant takes someones spot, but this doesnt make him less devout necessarily. Have fun with your build.
Oh and if your alignment is Chaotic Evil because you are a homicidal serial killer with uncontrollable compulsions, (then sorry I.C.) at that stage it would violate most oaths. Alignments are broad brush strokes. The good guy might get angry and start a fight, he is still good, The evil tyrant might be a loving grandma, she is still evil. Narrowing down why they act within the boundaries should help both your character flesh itself out and you coming to a comfortable solution here :) have fun!
Hi Zev! I.C. Is correct mechanically. In terms of game lore you and your DM will have to decide what would constitute a violation to your oath and whether your alignment would prohibit it. First ask yourself what makes Asuzall Chaotic? Does he have an inability to follow laws, or just laws he sees as unjust? If he entered a tyrants kingdom would he try to lead an army or a rebellion? Rebellions are chaotic messy affairs. Does this make him the sort to be on guard outside the temple in the holy city? Obviously no, or at least not for long as he might wander off after seeing 'injustice' when the apple cart merchant takes someones spot, but this doesnt make him less devout necessarily. Have fun with your build.
Oh and if your alignment is Chaotic Evil because you are a homicidal serial killer with uncontrollable compulsions, (then sorry I.C.) at that stage it would violate most oaths. Alignments are broad brush strokes. The good guy might get angry and start a fight, he is still good, The evil tyrant might be a loving grandma, she is still evil. Narrowing down why they act within the boundaries should help both your character flesh itself out and you coming to a comfortable solution here :) have fun!
He sums it up pretty well. To be honest, I would've just chosen a deity with a similar alignment to my character, so it makes more thematical sense for said character to follow him. But as Moondruid and the other person said, there is no mechanical difference. It takes far more than a difference in alignment to break an oath. I would look into the lore and teachings of the deity you mentioned, though, if you want to understand more about how that deity would react to having a follower of a different alignment. I know some deities despise certain alignments.
Yes now that 5e opened the gates to paladinhood, all people who wanted the power without the restrictions can finally play the way they want. At least there are still oaths, some of which are more easily interpreted. But the powers is really what some people are after, oaths are just a means to get it.
This class was and still should be the hardest to roleplay because of the risks of falling out of favor from the gods and your oath.
The Oath of Devotion compels you to be honest, not stupid. If evil cultists demand to know where their child sacrifice is, misleading them is a-ok. If you promise to said child sacrifice that you'll find their parents after saving them and just dump them at the nearest orphanage and move on, that's a violation.
That said, it is only when you willfully, repeatedly and unrepentantly break the Oath that you risk becoming an Oathbreaker.
It states "they stand against the forces of evil" and "...hunt the forces of evil" and "...lives on the front line of the cosmic struggle against evil". Finally "as guardians against the forces of wickedness, paladins are rarely of an evil alignment".
Later on on page 122 when referring to alignments it states"Lawful Good. Creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society. Gold dragons, paladins, and most dwarves are lawful good."
DMG p. 91 states "A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker"
I can see how you'd certainly take it to mean that paladins can only be Lawful good it is a bit unclear but paladins in 5e have always been allowed to be of any alignment except Oathbreaker (specific example pointed out by rule). It never says they MUST be of any alignment but does call out the one specific alignment requirement for the Oathbreaker.
For paladins it's all about the tenets of their oath and upholding that than their actual alignment.
According to pages 82 and 122 of the 5e Player's Handbook, Paladins must be Lawful Good (p82 mentions in several places that Paladins fight against evil, and p122 specifically lists Paladins as being lawful good)- not sure what 5th edition source you guys are looking at? Page 83 mentions paladins are "rarely evil" but the DMG specifically states that an evil paladin is a fallen or anti-paladin and receives Oathbreaker instead of Sacred Oath (and if they atone they would again return from an evil alignment and regain sacred oath). The DMG even refers to evil paladins as not being "true paladins".
As such, there are no evil paladins, only evil fallen paladins. Someone who starts as evil alignment, can't take Paladin class.
Did you create an account simply to try and troll people with this flamebait? :D
So I'm a Chaotic neutral paladin and I want to take an oath of vengeance when I hit level three. Would this work or should go with devotion or ancients instead?
so far my oath of devotion paladin has lied alot, but never been called up on it due to him only lieing to enemies. he has an intelligence score of 5, so i am playing his stupid and oblivious to whats going on around him. as long as he is truthful to his god bahamut (or as he refers to them as "master") and his friends he sees it as upholding the oath.
As I play it, across the board in 5e alignment does not affect a Paladin's use of their abilities at all. Like alignments it'll very from DM to DM but for me their connection to their powers is their Oath, and their adherence to it which is open to interpretation (i.e. with Oath of Devotion's Honesty can you avoid the truth with the enemy? Sure, just don't outright volunteer lies) and great for allowing player freedom.
For example, I'd be fine with an Oath of Vengeance paladin stealing a horse to go save a stolen child from a hag, or working with a bandit to get the kid back. But if the Oath of Vengeance paladin made a deal with the hag instead of slaying it then that would break their oath.
To me, the question of law and chaos is dependent upon the society at large. In this case, a paladin who adheres to her oath and deity's tenets could be chaotic if the society at large doesn't hold with those tenets. In that case, the paladin would be free to break the law if the law was contrary to her faith. Also, remember that deities have alignments. Since that is the case, there must be some sort of overarching realm of morality that is even higher than the gods which governs the gods' (and everyone else's) alignments. So, in short, if a paladin's god is chaotic, then point stands to reason that the paladin could be chaotic as well.
Frankly, this is a prime example of why alignment is poorly defined. Is someone "lawful" someone who follows the law without question, someone that adheres to strict rules, or someone who believes in order over chaos? Every paladin adheres to the rules of their oath, so in that respect, they are all lawful. But a paladin of Tyr is chaotic to devils, and a paladin of Silvanus is chaotic to those that advocate for building great cities on forest-land.
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I'm relatively new to D&D (I've only been to three sessions so far), and at my last one, I created a half-orc paladin named Asuzall. Long story short, he's chaotic good and worships Tyr, who, if you don't know, is very lawful good. How should I handle it? Should I embrace my differences? Since I will probably take the Oath of Devotion, I will have to follow its tenets. Most of them are understandable... except for Honesty. If I lie to get myself out of a sticky situation, must I seek absolution or become an Oathbreaker? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
There are no alignment requirements for being a Paladin. Any character of any alignment can follow a sacred oath's tenets.
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Hi Zev! I.C. Is correct mechanically. In terms of game lore you and your DM will have to decide what would constitute a violation to your oath and whether your alignment would prohibit it. First ask yourself what makes Asuzall Chaotic? Does he have an inability to follow laws, or just laws he sees as unjust? If he entered a tyrants kingdom would he try to lead an army or a rebellion? Rebellions are chaotic messy affairs. Does this make him the sort to be on guard outside the temple in the holy city? Obviously no, or at least not for long as he might wander off after seeing 'injustice' when the apple cart merchant takes someones spot, but this doesnt make him less devout necessarily. Have fun with your build.
Oh and if your alignment is Chaotic Evil because you are a homicidal serial killer with uncontrollable compulsions, (then sorry I.C.) at that stage it would violate most oaths. Alignments are broad brush strokes. The good guy might get angry and start a fight, he is still good, The evil tyrant might be a loving grandma, she is still evil. Narrowing down why they act within the boundaries should help both your character flesh itself out and you coming to a comfortable solution here :) have fun!
He sums it up pretty well. To be honest, I would've just chosen a deity with a similar alignment to my character, so it makes more thematical sense for said character to follow him. But as Moondruid and the other person said, there is no mechanical difference. It takes far more than a difference in alignment to break an oath. I would look into the lore and teachings of the deity you mentioned, though, if you want to understand more about how that deity would react to having a follower of a different alignment. I know some deities despise certain alignments.
Yes now that 5e opened the gates to paladinhood, all people who wanted the power without the restrictions can finally play the way they want. At least there are still oaths, some of which are more easily interpreted. But the powers is really what some people are after, oaths are just a means to get it.
This class was and still should be the hardest to roleplay because of the risks of falling out of favor from the gods and your oath.
And I, for one, say THANK SOLUS PRIME FOR THAT.
Now you've lost me.
What that means is you you have to see what the Oath of Devotion means to you and how you and your DM interpret it to be. An play it from there.
The Oath of Devotion compels you to be honest, not stupid. If evil cultists demand to know where their child sacrifice is, misleading them is a-ok. If you promise to said child sacrifice that you'll find their parents after saving them and just dump them at the nearest orphanage and move on, that's a violation.
That said, it is only when you willfully, repeatedly and unrepentantly break the Oath that you risk becoming an Oathbreaker.
If your asked by Cultists where their sacrifice is you could also honestly answer:
Safe from the likes of you, (charge)
Die!
Now why would I tell you that?
Well thats an admission of guilt if I have ever heard one! Your all under arrest, please resist.
"What I told you was true ... from a certain point of view."
It states "they stand against the forces of evil" and "...hunt the forces of evil" and "...lives on the front line of the cosmic struggle against evil". Finally "as guardians against the forces of wickedness, paladins are rarely of an evil alignment".
Later on on page 122 when referring to alignments it states"Lawful Good. Creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society. Gold dragons, paladins, and most dwarves are lawful good."
DMG p. 91 states "A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker"
I can see how you'd certainly take it to mean that paladins can only be Lawful good it is a bit unclear but paladins in 5e have always been allowed to be of any alignment except Oathbreaker (specific example pointed out by rule). It never says they MUST be of any alignment but does call out the one specific alignment requirement for the Oathbreaker.
For paladins it's all about the tenets of their oath and upholding that than their actual alignment.
Did you create an account simply to try and troll people with this flamebait? :D
So I'm a Chaotic neutral paladin and I want to take an oath of vengeance when I hit level three. Would this work or should go with devotion or ancients instead?
Any help?
Chaotic Neutral can very easily go for Vengeance, yes.
so far my oath of devotion paladin has lied alot, but never been called up on it due to him only lieing to enemies. he has an intelligence score of 5, so i am playing his stupid and oblivious to whats going on around him. as long as he is truthful to his god bahamut (or as he refers to them as "master") and his friends he sees it as upholding the oath.
As I play it, across the board in 5e alignment does not affect a Paladin's use of their abilities at all. Like alignments it'll very from DM to DM but for me their connection to their powers is their Oath, and their adherence to it which is open to interpretation (i.e. with Oath of Devotion's Honesty can you avoid the truth with the enemy? Sure, just don't outright volunteer lies) and great for allowing player freedom.
For example, I'd be fine with an Oath of Vengeance paladin stealing a horse to go save a stolen child from a hag, or working with a bandit to get the kid back. But if the Oath of Vengeance paladin made a deal with the hag instead of slaying it then that would break their oath.
To me, the question of law and chaos is dependent upon the society at large. In this case, a paladin who adheres to her oath and deity's tenets could be chaotic if the society at large doesn't hold with those tenets. In that case, the paladin would be free to break the law if the law was contrary to her faith. Also, remember that deities have alignments. Since that is the case, there must be some sort of overarching realm of morality that is even higher than the gods which governs the gods' (and everyone else's) alignments. So, in short, if a paladin's god is chaotic, then point stands to reason that the paladin could be chaotic as well.
Frankly, this is a prime example of why alignment is poorly defined. Is someone "lawful" someone who follows the law without question, someone that adheres to strict rules, or someone who believes in order over chaos? Every paladin adheres to the rules of their oath, so in that respect, they are all lawful. But a paladin of Tyr is chaotic to devils, and a paladin of Silvanus is chaotic to those that advocate for building great cities on forest-land.