. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
1. "Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action."
2. "Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells."
3. "Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to increase the level of an elemental discipline spell that you cast..."
4. "Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above..."
Nothing in any of those refute my post. These are different situations. The "once" in all of these situations restricts it so that you can't use this feature earlier than when you fulfill the prerequisite, while the "once" in the Hide in Plain Sight feature restricts the hiding benefit to immediately after you camouflage yourself. Let's go down them one-by-one.
1.This means that once you get to a level where you get the Extra Attack feature, you can choose to either attack twice by yourself, or you can have the beast take the Attack action and you can attack once. Your reading of Hide in Plain Sight if applied to this feature would mean "once you gain this feature and take the Attack action, you can choose to delay the attacks whenever you want and have them trigger at any time with no duration". That's not how any of this works.
2. Yeah, like above, if you spend the resources, you then add the spell to your spellbook and can prepare it as other spells. Nothing in here makes what I said incorrect. What your reading of Hide in Plain Sight would do to this feature would make it so you can choose when to make the spell appear in the spellbook instead of it happening immediately, and then choose to prepare it like you normally prepare spells. Again, that's an incorrect reading of both this feature and Hide in Plain Sight.
3. Same as above. This feature would be non-sensical if you tried to read it the way you're reading Hide in Plain Sight.
4. If you applied your Hide in Plain Sight reading to this spell, this specific part of it would function as it is currently written due to its "for the rest of the duration as described above". If it didn't have that last bit, your reading applied to this would make it so you could delay when you read someone's mind until whenever you choose to after you detect them with no restriction based on the spell's duration.
Your reading is wrong. Looking up whenever the rules uses the word "once" won't make your argument valid.
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. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
1. "Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action."
2. "Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells."
3. "Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to increase the level of an elemental discipline spell that you cast..."
4. "Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above..."
Nothing in any of those refute my post. These are different situations. The "once" in all of these situations restricts it so that you can't use this feature earlier than when you fulfill the prerequisite, while the "once" in the Hide in Plain Sight feature restricts the hiding benefit to immediately after you camouflage yourself. Let's go down them one-by-one.
1.This means that once you get to a level where you get the Extra Attack feature, you can choose to either attack twice by yourself, or you can have the beast take the Attack action and you can attack once. Your reading of Hide in Plain Sight if applied to this feature would mean "once you gain this feature and take the Attack action, you can choose to delay the attacks whenever you want and have them trigger at any time with no duration". That's not how any of this works.
2. Yeah, like above, if you spend the resources, you then add the spell to your spellbook and can prepare it as other spells. Nothing in here makes what I said incorrect. What your reading of Hide in Plain Sight would do to this feature would make it so you can choose when to make the spell appear in the spellbook instead of it happening immediately, and then choose to prepare it like you normally prepare spells. Again, that's an incorrect reading of both this feature and Hide in Plain Sight.
3. Same as above. This feature would be non-sensical if you tried to read it the way you're reading Hide in Plain Sight.
4. If you applied your Hide in Plain Sight reading to this spell, this specific part of it would function as it is currently written due to its "for the rest of the duration as described above". If it didn't have that last bit, your reading applied to this would make it so you could delay when you read someone's mind until whenever you choose to after you detect them with no restriction based on the spell's duration.
Your reading is wrong. Looking up whenever the rules uses the word "once" won't make your argument valid.
I refute your post.
What do the words "can" and "try" mean? Honestly. This is all plain english.
. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
Number one. It ONLY matters if the DM allows it.
Number two. Those tweets have been wrong and/or corrected multiple times, to the point of the game officially stating that the tweets are not official, as you all are no doubt aware. Take the beast master and beast taking their turn together. There is a tweet from JC saying NOPE, but Tasha’s and other places in the PHB where he said NOPE once before in a tweet are now NOT NOPE. Like controlled mounts.
1) No, it doesn't. If the DM allows it, great for you. However, stop trying to pretend like the feature is good because your DM made it good. It's bad as written, and your table's version is a houserule. This is like me going to a thread talking about why the Dragonborn breath weapon sucks and saying "at my table, the breath weapon lasts for a whole minute, so this feature is good!!!" No. Houserules don't make the RAW good. I seriously can't believe that this needs to be stated.
2) Never did I ever mention "tweets" or "Jeremy Crawford" in my post. Never. That was the others. I quoted the book and showed why it didn't work how you said it did. The rest of this second point is a bunch of irrelevant words that my brain doesn't understand the intent of.
Are we done now?
1. That is how other people read it. Plain and simple. Do you track ammunition, food and water, spell components, encumbrance, and use the daily encounter xp rules for combat CR in the DMG? All 100% RAW. If you don't use it, it's a house rule. Big deal.
Yeah, no. You're not going to pull a "but that's my opinion!!!" on me. Your opinion on this feature can be wrong. People think that the Earth is flat, but that doesn't make it true or a valid opinion to have.
Also, all the rest of that is guidelines. All of the DMG is guidelines. Hide in Plain Sight is in the PHB, in the rules for the Ranger class. Those aren't guidelines. If you have fun changing them, more power to you, but that has no place in a discussion about the RAW of the feature. That is a big deal in this discussion.
2. Yeah. That was a general response. Anytime anyone coughs up a JC tweet like it means something i giggle.
Keep general responses to posts not responding to me, please. I expect posts responding to me to actually talk about what I was talking about, not what other people were.
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. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
1. "Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action."
2. "Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells."
3. "Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to increase the level of an elemental discipline spell that you cast..."
4. "Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above..."
Nothing in any of those refute my post. These are different situations. The "once" in all of these situations restricts it so that you can't use this feature earlier than when you fulfill the prerequisite, while the "once" in the Hide in Plain Sight feature restricts the hiding benefit to immediately after you camouflage yourself. Let's go down them one-by-one.
1.This means that once you get to a level where you get the Extra Attack feature, you can choose to either attack twice by yourself, or you can have the beast take the Attack action and you can attack once. Your reading of Hide in Plain Sight if applied to this feature would mean "once you gain this feature and take the Attack action, you can choose to delay the attacks whenever you want and have them trigger at any time with no duration". That's not how any of this works.
2. Yeah, like above, if you spend the resources, you then add the spell to your spellbook and can prepare it as other spells. Nothing in here makes what I said incorrect. What your reading of Hide in Plain Sight would do to this feature would make it so you can choose when to make the spell appear in the spellbook instead of it happening immediately, and then choose to prepare it like you normally prepare spells. Again, that's an incorrect reading of both this feature and Hide in Plain Sight.
3. Same as above. This feature would be non-sensical if you tried to read it the way you're reading Hide in Plain Sight.
4. If you applied your Hide in Plain Sight reading to this spell, this specific part of it would function as it is currently written due to its "for the rest of the duration as described above". If it didn't have that last bit, your reading applied to this would make it so you could delay when you read someone's mind until whenever you choose to after you detect them with no restriction based on the spell's duration.
Your reading is wrong. Looking up whenever the rules uses the word "once" won't make your argument valid.
I refute your post.
Yeah, you're going to have to look up what refute means. Here you go:
Just because you disagree, it doesn't mean that your opinion is valid.
What do the words "can" and "try" mean? Honestly. This is all plain english.
"Try" means that you can take the action associated with hiding (which is the Hide action). "Can" means that you have a choice to do it or not. If you do take the Hide action immediately after putting on the camouflage, you get the bonus to the Stealth check from the Hide action. If you don't, you have to use the feature again in order to get the bonus when you actually do decide to take the Hide action. Again, this is like saying that when you cast a spell that says you "can choose targets", that you don't have to choose targets and can instead decide to target someone whenever you want to without wasting the spell. If you waste the feature, you waste the feature. You don't get an always-ready chameleon skin to blend you into your environment.
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I always thought something different until others convinced me that the create and move was real. so, lets assume this tweet is still valid. It still doesn't refute the second wording issue. camouflage changes from a noun to a verb. so you spend a minute crafting a object to a specific location. You move you are no longer camouflaged (verb). The object camouflage (Noun) still exists. next phase says "Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage (verb) yourself again to gain this benefit." This could mean the requirement is to create a camouflaged (noun) is already fulfilled. so you could hide again in the same location (possibly a similar looking one) following normal hide rules + Hide in plain sight rules. "you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are"
. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
You are deliberately switching definitions of "once".
Once means after OR It can mean a single time. The sentence structure shows that it means after and not a single time. After has no time requirements associated with it. JC however did associate a time.
So I will be going back to my original interpretation for in game use. An object created to look like a specific surface. Honestly it makes more sense in my mind as it basically is how real world army rangers move (And fictional Ninjas).
And before you go denying the validity of JC, Frank, look down at the comments to that tweet. Dan Dillon, two years after making that podcast you posted is commenting "Ugh. Damn." and acknowledging it doesn't work.
You can direct all anti-JC sentiments towards me Frank.
Dan Dillon, your source of information, is a colleague of JC's and openly defers to this ruling in response to the tweet. But go ahead, keep giggling.
. . . That's not what the feature says. At all. It says "Once you are camouflaged this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface". Note the "once". That means, as soon as the camouflage is created, you have to use the whole feature. This is like saying you can drink a healing potion before combat and wait for the healing effect to happen until after you take damage. No. The feature isn't two parts. It's one part, camouflage to enhance your hiding when you spend 1 minute to create it. It's not camouflage that you activate whenever you feel like it. It doesn't matter if the DM allows it. The feature doesn't work that way.
Number one. It ONLY matters if the DM allows it.t
Number two. Those tweets have been wrong and/or corrected multiple times, to the point of the game officially stating that the tweets are not official, as you all are no doubt aware. Take the beast master and beast taking their turn together. There is a tweet from JC saying NOPE, but Tasha’s and other places in the PHB where he said NOPE once before in a tweet are now NOT NOPE. Like controlled mounts.
I love when people use the "well he changes his mind" argument. No where else does the possibility of a a future change factor in to whether someone thinks a current ruling is valid. Go look for more recent thoughts on the subject. There are none. If one were ever to come out, then we can revisit. But saying the guy changes his mind doesn't mean anything. He is still the only individual given any shred of credibility as a guide to the rules outside of published material/SAC.
No one is saying you have to follow what he says. But to deny completely the validity of using his words as a way to provide a framework for understanding the ability is what makes me giggle.
And I can't get over just how illogical this "prime and release" interpretation is:
Ranger wakes up, having camped at the riverbank. Sticks some twigs in their hair, wipes mud on their face. Goes for a jog. Goes for a swim. Takes a hike in the mountains. Ends up in a cave. Needs to hide in the cave. Presses against a wall because somehow the twigs and mud from the riverbank help them hide in a completely different environment. But then they move five feet, and poof, camouflage instantly destroyed.
The fact there are no provisions in the ability to cover the limitations of movement in between said prime and release tells me that in no way was this how the ability was designed to be used.
"You can direct all anti-JC sentiments towards me Frank." Nice. I appreciate it.
Logic in a world with arcane and divine magical super powers, eh? Interesting.
I know many of you want to die on the hill that the ranger sucks. That is fine. Applying camouflage, moving, and then hiding is not only done in real life by hunters, military, and the like all the time, it actually makes sense in game. The having to redo the camouflage is not because you move, it's because once you use it, it will be recognized. Snipers apply camouflage and move all the time. Using the "no movement between applying" reading I would agree that it is a silly and almost useless ability. Why...why...would we assume that that is the way the ability works? Given the words? Given the way the optional replacement ability works? The replacement that is meant to be an equal power swap. THAT makes zero sense.
Look, I've no horse in this race but I just have to laugh at people saying "it is plain English". Nothing plain about the language, so many differences from each dialect (as I'm sure there are in each language), it is nigh on impossible to have a plain talk. The rain in Spain falls mainly on it. If I call you mate I am likely calling you a four letter word starting with c, but I might mean mate, and conversely if I call you a c word I'm probably calling you mate, but I might just mean it too.
Anyway, I'm going to leave this super literal interpretation for everyone to enjoy.
Starting at 10th level, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage.
If I do not have access to fresh mud, I can't create the camouflage. It hasn't rained, therefore I cannot create it, and this day old mud is past its use by date.
If I do not have access to dirt, I can't create the camouflage.
If I do not have access to plants, I can't create the camouflage.
If I do not have access to soot, I can't create the camouflage.
If I do not have access to other (I'm guessing at least one) naturally occurring materials, I can't create the camouflage.
There was no or to tell me (or you) any of these were optional, therefore they are all required! So please ursine this in mind next time you try to hide in plain sight.
I know many of you want to die on the hill that the ranger sucks. That is fine. Applying camouflage, moving, and then hiding is not only done in real life by hunters, military, and the like all the time, it actually makes sense in game. The having to redo the camouflage is not because you move, it's because once you use it, it will be recognized. Snipers apply camouflage and move all the time. Using the "no movement between applying" reading I would agree that it is a silly and almost useless ability. Why...why...would we assume that that is the way the ability works? Given the words? Given the way the optional replacement ability works? The replacement that is meant to be an equal power swap. THAT makes zero sense.
Dude. Would you just quit it with that crap. You have been in conversations where I have said how much I love the Ranger despite whatever aspects of the class I don't like. We've talked together about tactics that don't get utilized enough and how the Ranger is often misunderstood. NEVER, have I said that the Ranger sucks, and certainly have I never communicated that I want it to. When you look back through the "Why does Ranger Suck" thread you will see plenty of reasonable contributors with similar relationships to the Ranger. Stop trying to feed this idea that there is some rabid anti-Ranger player base out there. It's actually mostly very reasonable people with reasonable complaints about some of the PHB Ranger abilities.
I'm not even going to entertain this HiPs debate anymore because you have gone full-circle back to extreme zealot mode Frank and I won't give it the time of day other than to point out how toxic of an attitude it is.
Ironically Frank, you are the one feeding the kind of negativity into the community that you seem so keen on trying to fight against. I'm honestly insulted that you would lump me into this "ranger hater" group of yours because we have been in dialogue before. It's like you're willfully ignoring everything I've said just so you can perpetuate this state of victimhood.
I know many of you want to die on the hill that the ranger sucks. That is fine. Applying camouflage, moving, and then hiding is not only done in real life by hunters, military, and the like all the time, it actually makes sense in game. The having to redo the camouflage is not because you move, it's because once you use it, it will be recognized. Snipers apply camouflage and move all the time. Using the "no movement between applying" reading I would agree that it is a silly and almost useless ability. Why...why...would we assume that that is the way the ability works? Given the words? Given the way the optional replacement ability works? The replacement that is meant to be an equal power swap. THAT makes zero sense.
Dude. Would you just quit it with that crap. You have been in conversations where I have said how much I love the Ranger despite whatever aspects of the class I don't like. We've talked together about tactics that don't get utilized enough and how the Ranger is often misunderstood. NEVER, have I said that the Ranger sucks, and certainly have I never communicated that I want it to. When you look back through the "Why does Ranger Suck" thread you will see plenty of reasonable contributors with similar relationships to the Ranger. Stop trying to feed this idea that there is some rabid anti-Ranger player base out there. It's actually mostly very reasonable people with reasonable complaints about some of the PHB Ranger abilities.
I'm not even going to entertain this HiPs debate anymore because you have gone full-circle back to extreme zealot mode Frank and I won't give it the time of day other than to point out how toxic of an attitude it is.
Ironically Frank, you are the one feeding the kind of negativity into the community that you seem so keen on trying to fight against. I'm honestly insulted that you would lump me into this "ranger hater" group of yours because we have been in dialogue before. It's like you're willfully ignoring everything I've said just so you can perpetuate this state of victimhood.
I’m very sorry. That bolded sentence was extreme, unnecessary, and careless words from a zealot. I apologize, HeironymusZot.
Nothing in any of those refute my post. These are different situations. The "once" in all of these situations restricts it so that you can't use this feature earlier than when you fulfill the prerequisite, while the "once" in the Hide in Plain Sight feature restricts the hiding benefit to immediately after you camouflage yourself. Let's go down them one-by-one.
1.This means that once you get to a level where you get the Extra Attack feature, you can choose to either attack twice by yourself, or you can have the beast take the Attack action and you can attack once. Your reading of Hide in Plain Sight if applied to this feature would mean "once you gain this feature and take the Attack action, you can choose to delay the attacks whenever you want and have them trigger at any time with no duration". That's not how any of this works.
2. Yeah, like above, if you spend the resources, you then add the spell to your spellbook and can prepare it as other spells. Nothing in here makes what I said incorrect. What your reading of Hide in Plain Sight would do to this feature would make it so you can choose when to make the spell appear in the spellbook instead of it happening immediately, and then choose to prepare it like you normally prepare spells. Again, that's an incorrect reading of both this feature and Hide in Plain Sight.
3. Same as above. This feature would be non-sensical if you tried to read it the way you're reading Hide in Plain Sight.
4. If you applied your Hide in Plain Sight reading to this spell, this specific part of it would function as it is currently written due to its "for the rest of the duration as described above". If it didn't have that last bit, your reading applied to this would make it so you could delay when you read someone's mind until whenever you choose to after you detect them with no restriction based on the spell's duration.
Your reading is wrong. Looking up whenever the rules uses the word "once" won't make your argument valid.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I refute your post.
What do the words "can" and "try" mean? Honestly. This is all plain english.
Yeah, no. You're not going to pull a "but that's my opinion!!!" on me. Your opinion on this feature can be wrong. People think that the Earth is flat, but that doesn't make it true or a valid opinion to have.
Also, all the rest of that is guidelines. All of the DMG is guidelines. Hide in Plain Sight is in the PHB, in the rules for the Ranger class. Those aren't guidelines. If you have fun changing them, more power to you, but that has no place in a discussion about the RAW of the feature. That is a big deal in this discussion.
Keep general responses to posts not responding to me, please. I expect posts responding to me to actually talk about what I was talking about, not what other people were.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yeah, you're going to have to look up what refute means. Here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?q=def of refute&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS938US938&oq=def of refute&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l9.1666j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Just because you disagree, it doesn't mean that your opinion is valid.
"Try" means that you can take the action associated with hiding (which is the Hide action). "Can" means that you have a choice to do it or not. If you do take the Hide action immediately after putting on the camouflage, you get the bonus to the Stealth check from the Hide action. If you don't, you have to use the feature again in order to get the bonus when you actually do decide to take the Hide action. Again, this is like saying that when you cast a spell that says you "can choose targets", that you don't have to choose targets and can instead decide to target someone whenever you want to without wasting the spell. If you waste the feature, you waste the feature. You don't get an always-ready chameleon skin to blend you into your environment.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I always thought something different until others convinced me that the create and move was real. so, lets assume this tweet is still valid. It still doesn't refute the second wording issue. camouflage changes from a noun to a verb. so you spend a minute crafting a object to a specific location. You move you are no longer camouflaged (verb). The object camouflage (Noun) still exists. next phase says "Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage (verb) yourself again to gain this benefit." This could mean the requirement is to create a camouflaged (noun) is already fulfilled. so you could hide again in the same location (possibly a similar looking one) following normal hide rules + Hide in plain sight rules. "you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are"
You are deliberately switching definitions of "once".
Once means after OR It can mean a single time. The sentence structure shows that it means after and not a single time. After has no time requirements associated with it. JC however did associate a time.
So I will be going back to my original interpretation for in game use. An object created to look like a specific surface. Honestly it makes more sense in my mind as it basically is how real world army rangers move (And fictional Ninjas).
You can direct all anti-JC sentiments towards me Frank.
Dan Dillon, your source of information, is a colleague of JC's and openly defers to this ruling in response to the tweet. But go ahead, keep giggling.
I love when people use the "well he changes his mind" argument. No where else does the possibility of a a future change factor in to whether someone thinks a current ruling is valid. Go look for more recent thoughts on the subject. There are none. If one were ever to come out, then we can revisit. But saying the guy changes his mind doesn't mean anything. He is still the only individual given any shred of credibility as a guide to the rules outside of published material/SAC.
No one is saying you have to follow what he says. But to deny completely the validity of using his words as a way to provide a framework for understanding the ability is what makes me giggle.
And I can't get over just how illogical this "prime and release" interpretation is:
Ranger wakes up, having camped at the riverbank. Sticks some twigs in their hair, wipes mud on their face. Goes for a jog. Goes for a swim. Takes a hike in the mountains. Ends up in a cave. Needs to hide in the cave. Presses against a wall because somehow the twigs and mud from the riverbank help them hide in a completely different environment. But then they move five feet, and poof, camouflage instantly destroyed.
The fact there are no provisions in the ability to cover the limitations of movement in between said prime and release tells me that in no way was this how the ability was designed to be used.
"You can direct all anti-JC sentiments towards me Frank." Nice. I appreciate it.
Logic in a world with arcane and divine magical super powers, eh? Interesting.
I know many of you want to die on the hill that the ranger sucks. That is fine. Applying camouflage, moving, and then hiding is not only done in real life by hunters, military, and the like all the time, it actually makes sense in game. The having to redo the camouflage is not because you move, it's because once you use it, it will be recognized. Snipers apply camouflage and move all the time. Using the "no movement between applying" reading I would agree that it is a silly and almost useless ability. Why...why...would we assume that that is the way the ability works? Given the words? Given the way the optional replacement ability works? The replacement that is meant to be an equal power swap. THAT makes zero sense.
Look, I've no horse in this race but I just have to laugh at people saying "it is plain English". Nothing plain about the language, so many differences from each dialect (as I'm sure there are in each language), it is nigh on impossible to have a plain talk. The rain in Spain falls mainly on it. If I call you mate I am likely calling you a four letter word starting with c, but I might mean mate, and conversely if I call you a c word I'm probably calling you mate, but I might just mean it too.
Anyway, I'm going to leave this super literal interpretation for everyone to enjoy.
There was no or to tell me (or you) any of these were optional, therefore they are all required! So please ursine this in mind next time you try to hide in plain sight.
Shout out to the Oxford comma.
Dude. Would you just quit it with that crap. You have been in conversations where I have said how much I love the Ranger despite whatever aspects of the class I don't like. We've talked together about tactics that don't get utilized enough and how the Ranger is often misunderstood. NEVER, have I said that the Ranger sucks, and certainly have I never communicated that I want it to. When you look back through the "Why does Ranger Suck" thread you will see plenty of reasonable contributors with similar relationships to the Ranger. Stop trying to feed this idea that there is some rabid anti-Ranger player base out there. It's actually mostly very reasonable people with reasonable complaints about some of the PHB Ranger abilities.
I'm not even going to entertain this HiPs debate anymore because you have gone full-circle back to extreme zealot mode Frank and I won't give it the time of day other than to point out how toxic of an attitude it is.
Ironically Frank, you are the one feeding the kind of negativity into the community that you seem so keen on trying to fight against. I'm honestly insulted that you would lump me into this "ranger hater" group of yours because we have been in dialogue before. It's like you're willfully ignoring everything I've said just so you can perpetuate this state of victimhood.
I’m very sorry. That bolded sentence was extreme, unnecessary, and careless words from a zealot. I apologize, HeironymusZot.
Apology accepted Frank. I appreciate it.