I did a quick search on the Ranger forums for any previous topics like this and didn't really find anything, so here goes.
I'm playing a wood elf Ranger Beastmaster (8)/ Cleric (1) - I kind of accidentally became the glass cannon of the group when I really wanted to be more of a support/ crowd-control/ de-buffer. I'm seeing a common thing w/ Rangers to build their own utility arrows - but I don't want to do even more damage, so I'm thinking things like grappling arrows, net arrows, flash-bang arrows - arrows that do low to no damage but stack debuffs on the targets, buffs on my allies and practical things like the grappling or net arrow.
All of this is nothing new, but I'm looking at purchasing artificers initiate as my next feat and I'm wondering if the following makes sense:
select woodworkers tools as my artisan's tool kit
create non-magical arrows that have effects
for example: purchasing or crafting a blindness poison (like malice) and then adding to an aerosol disperser arrowhead using the artificer initiate feat presents me with an arrow that creates an AoE blindness cloud - since the arrowhead isn't designed to actually wound but disperse, the damage would be minimal (D4 bludgeoning)
My questions are:
does this make sense from the intention of the feat?
are there any community resources that I can take a look at?
am i missing any balance implications that would worry a DM?
I think this all sounds very fun and creative. I have to tell you that there isn’t a lot of technical RAW support for what you’re describing. The game can easily support this kind of creativity, but it will take direct coordination with your dungeon master.
Instead of or addition to all of this wonderful crafting stuff, rangers have spells specifically designed to do these kinds of things. Ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, fog cloud, spike growth, just to name a few. These all either proc right off an attack, like an arrow shot like Hawkeye, or could be flavored as such, like fog cloud or spike growth happens because of an arrow shot.
Flavor is free. So use the spells a ranger has to do what you want to do. In addition, communicate with your DM to make the most of skill checks, tool proficiencies, money, and downtime to make the stuff you’re trying to make.
Thanks, the way you put it allowed me to present the ideas to my DM clearly & in a way that doesn't seem to imbalance anything. Instead of D8+6+sharpshooter feat +10+(2D10 Poison) it'd be more like D4+6+AoE DC15 Blind for D3 rounds
The tradeoff between debuffs / buffs and damage seems to be a fair tradeoff to make combat more interesting and hopefully more effective.
On a similar note here are some things the game does support.
Harvesting poison from the dmg Chapter 8. harvesting disease may also be a thing. PHB Rangers certainly should get a bonus to checks related to their enemies and terrain.
Poisoning caltrops and regular traps.
Crafted poisons. fabricate spells or using tools. There are some that mimic spells (See truth serum.) more could be homebrewed based off of others.
crafting nets and tools. Forge cleric, lizard folk : cunning artisan, Artificer class (LVL10 Magic item adept.)
Poisoner feat.
DMG chapter 9 Crafting magic items. it gives rules for creating items so something like a exploding arrow should be an alteration of a real game item, spell or feature and its rarity mimic the original.
re-flavor spell scrolls (like frank suggested) remember a spell just has to be on your list to use it. with both cleric and ranger you are set really well. so even if you didn't take lightning arrow you could pull out a magic scroll that is a "lighting arrow". I always liked to do this with restoration and healing (moss or other plant that is really a scroll you "feed" to some one instead of touch)
I like where this is going. Quick thoughts of how I would play it. (this is all personal opinion so...)
Request to change your magic focus to be your arrows. This is effect would allow you to launch effect arrow which are really just spells. this would not create worry from the DM as you basically just asked for an additional resource to be use for spell casting
take a single level of the artificer. Yes I know it will be a three-class dig and MADD as heck but... would give you a small list of wizard spell, magic tinkering for more effect arrows (glow stick arrows). heck do two levels and start infusing the bow as a repeater.
Alchemist kit. then request if you can attach viles to arrow to increase the range of the vile you created(normally 20ft improvised weapon throw range). Alchemist kit allows you to create alchemist fire, acid, oil perfume (stink bomb?)etc. Create a puff of thick smoke is a DC 10 but I can see asking to make it large as a DC 15-20 to be a good smoke bomb
I did a quick search on the Ranger forums for any previous topics like this and didn't really find anything, so here goes.
I'm playing a wood elf Ranger Beastmaster (8)/ Cleric (1) - I kind of accidentally became the glass cannon of the group when I really wanted to be more of a support/ crowd-control/ de-buffer. I'm seeing a common thing w/ Rangers to build their own utility arrows - but I don't want to do even more damage, so I'm thinking things like grappling arrows, net arrows, flash-bang arrows - arrows that do low to no damage but stack debuffs on the targets, buffs on my allies and practical things like the grappling or net arrow.
All of this is nothing new, but I'm looking at purchasing artificers initiate as my next feat and I'm wondering if the following makes sense:
select woodworkers tools as my artisan's tool kit
create non-magical arrows that have effects
for example: purchasing or crafting a blindness poison (like malice) and then adding to an aerosol disperser arrowhead using the artificer initiate feat presents me with an arrow that creates an AoE blindness cloud - since the arrowhead isn't designed to actually wound but disperse, the damage would be minimal (D4 bludgeoning)
My questions are:
does this make sense from the intention of the feat?
are there any community resources that I can take a look at?
am i missing any balance implications that would worry a DM?
Thanks and I appreciate any feedback.
It seems like you're taking the Artificer Initiate feat just for proficiency in woodcarver's tools. No other aspect of the feat aids in the crafting of items, magical or non-magical. If you're looking to create "trick arrows" in the vein of Green Arrow or Hawkeye, I wonder if the Skilled feat would be a better choice. That would allow you to become proficient in things like tinker's tools, poisoner's kit, alchemist supplies, etc. that could aid in the design and crafting of your specialty arrows.
I suspect that it’s not just the crafting or your right skilled would be a better choice with herbalism kit, alchemist’s kit and woodworkers tools. But artificer initiate also grants a cantrip (booming blade, green flame blade, Lightning lure) and a L1 spell ( Tasha’s caustic brew) that would potentially benefit the ranger and some of the ideas presented. I like this idea although I have a little trouble seeing a ranger as a glass canon.
I would (as a DM) require Tinker’s Tools more than Woodcarvers to make them.
For the Grappling Arrow, it would require something in the head to collapse into the structure so as to expand the head and really wedge it in there good. (Like a wall anchor). The. It’s just 100 ft of string through a loop on the arrow so it can be used to pull the silk rope up for climbing because the rope would be too heavy all by itself and the arrow wouldn’t fly.
Net Arrows would be impractical by the laws of physics (too heavy to fly), and Nets suck this edition. Luckily Rangers have Ensnaring Strike for that.
Flashbangs would be something like elemental sodium/potassium sealed in wax and a vial of water with magnesium. The vial would smash on target, hopefully also rupturing the wax, the elemental s/p would get wet and ignite for the “bang,” and set off the magnesium for the “flash.” (Alchemist Supplies required.) I imagine something like 1d2/3 Bludgeoning damage & Con save or Stunned for a round. The range would be reduced due to the 1/2 lb. vial of water. 40/80 for a shortbow, 75/150 for a longbow.
"It seems like you're taking the Artificer Initiate feat just for proficiency in woodcarver's tools.".
KInda sorta - the additional cantrip and first level spell really kinds of rounds out the feat for me. For example, using some flavor, I can use poison spray that procs off an arrow hit. (yay flavor!)
The first level spell addition (feather fall) really helps because in our campaign, we "liberated" an air ship from some lawful evil folks who ... no longer can use the ship.... and now I can be an AIRBORNE RANGER. Our party has a habit of jumping off the side of the ship into sketchy situations.
I had a serious issue with very low HP rolls - not complaining because it's added a bit of necessity to the tactics i'm running & that "flaw" of being kind of frail, I actively use that to my advantage at times
I like where this is going. Quick thoughts of how I would play it. (this is all personal opinion so...)
Request to change your magic focus to be your arrows. This is effect would allow you to launch effect arrow which are really just spells. this would not create worry from the DM as you basically just asked for an additional resource to be use for spell casting
take a single level of the artificer. Yes I know it will be a three-class dig and MADD as heck but... would give you a small list of wizard spell, magic tinkering for more effect arrows (glow stick arrows). heck do two levels and start infusing the bow as a repeater.
Alchemist kit. then request if you can attach viles to arrow to increase the range of the vile you created(normally 20ft improvised weapon throw range). Alchemist kit allows you to create alchemist fire, acid, oil perfume (stink bomb?)etc. Create a puff of thick smoke is a DC 10 but I can see asking to make it large as a DC 15-20 to be a good smoke bomb
i am so gonna have to play with this - like i thought i was being clever, you just made it so much better. thanks!
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I did a quick search on the Ranger forums for any previous topics like this and didn't really find anything, so here goes.
I'm playing a wood elf Ranger Beastmaster (8)/ Cleric (1) - I kind of accidentally became the glass cannon of the group when I really wanted to be more of a support/ crowd-control/ de-buffer. I'm seeing a common thing w/ Rangers to build their own utility arrows - but I don't want to do even more damage, so I'm thinking things like grappling arrows, net arrows, flash-bang arrows - arrows that do low to no damage but stack debuffs on the targets, buffs on my allies and practical things like the grappling or net arrow.
All of this is nothing new, but I'm looking at purchasing artificers initiate as my next feat and I'm wondering if the following makes sense:
My questions are:
Thanks and I appreciate any feedback.
I think this all sounds very fun and creative. I have to tell you that there isn’t a lot of technical RAW support for what you’re describing. The game can easily support this kind of creativity, but it will take direct coordination with your dungeon master.
Instead of or addition to all of this wonderful crafting stuff, rangers have spells specifically designed to do these kinds of things. Ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, fog cloud, spike growth, just to name a few. These all either proc right off an attack, like an arrow shot like Hawkeye, or could be flavored as such, like fog cloud or spike growth happens because of an arrow shot.
Flavor is free. So use the spells a ranger has to do what you want to do. In addition, communicate with your DM to make the most of skill checks, tool proficiencies, money, and downtime to make the stuff you’re trying to make.
Thanks, the way you put it allowed me to present the ideas to my DM clearly & in a way that doesn't seem to imbalance anything. Instead of D8+6+sharpshooter feat +10+(2D10 Poison) it'd be more like D4+6+AoE DC15 Blind for D3 rounds
The tradeoff between debuffs / buffs and damage seems to be a fair tradeoff to make combat more interesting and hopefully more effective.
On a similar note here are some things the game does support.
I like where this is going. Quick thoughts of how I would play it. (this is all personal opinion so...)
I totally forgot about walloping ammunition these can be crafted or taken as an artificer infusion.
It seems like you're taking the Artificer Initiate feat just for proficiency in woodcarver's tools. No other aspect of the feat aids in the crafting of items, magical or non-magical. If you're looking to create "trick arrows" in the vein of Green Arrow or Hawkeye, I wonder if the Skilled feat would be a better choice. That would allow you to become proficient in things like tinker's tools, poisoner's kit, alchemist supplies, etc. that could aid in the design and crafting of your specialty arrows.
I suspect that it’s not just the crafting or your right skilled would be a better choice with herbalism kit, alchemist’s kit and woodworkers tools. But artificer initiate also grants a cantrip (booming blade, green flame blade, Lightning lure) and a L1 spell ( Tasha’s caustic brew) that would potentially benefit the ranger and some of the ideas presented. I like this idea although I have a little trouble seeing a ranger as a glass canon.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I would (as a DM) require Tinker’s Tools more than Woodcarvers to make them.
For the Grappling Arrow, it would require something in the head to collapse into the structure so as to expand the head and really wedge it in there good. (Like a wall anchor). The. It’s just 100 ft of string through a loop on the arrow so it can be used to pull the silk rope up for climbing because the rope would be too heavy all by itself and the arrow wouldn’t fly.
Net Arrows would be impractical by the laws of physics (too heavy to fly), and Nets suck this edition. Luckily Rangers have Ensnaring Strike for that.
Flashbangs would be something like elemental sodium/potassium sealed in wax and a vial of water with magnesium. The vial would smash on target, hopefully also rupturing the wax, the elemental s/p would get wet and ignite for the “bang,” and set off the magnesium for the “flash.” (Alchemist Supplies required.) I imagine something like 1d2/3 Bludgeoning damage & Con save or Stunned for a round. The range would be reduced due to the 1/2 lb. vial of water. 40/80 for a shortbow, 75/150 for a longbow.
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KInda sorta - the additional cantrip and first level spell really kinds of rounds out the feat for me. For example, using some flavor, I can use poison spray that procs off an arrow hit. (yay flavor!)
The first level spell addition (feather fall) really helps because in our campaign, we "liberated" an air ship from some lawful evil folks who ... no longer can use the ship.... and now I can be an AIRBORNE RANGER. Our party has a habit of jumping off the side of the ship into sketchy situations.
I had a serious issue with very low HP rolls - not complaining because it's added a bit of necessity to the tactics i'm running & that "flaw" of being kind of frail, I actively use that to my advantage at times
i am so gonna have to play with this - like i thought i was being clever, you just made it so much better. thanks!
keanu_whoa.gif