By 20th level Paladins can turn into angels for a minute, Clerics can speak directly to their god and get any favour they want, and Wizards become gods and Rangers get...
"At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. Once on each of your turns, you can add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the damage roll of an attack you make against one of your favored enemies. You can choose to use this feature before or after the roll, but before any effects of the roll are applied."
This sucks in my opinion. Devotion Paladins get their secondary ability modifier to attack rolls when they reach 3rd level (for 1 min), and blade singers get their primary modifier to damage while blade singing at lvl 14 (for 1-2 min).
Personally i think the Ranger should gain the ability to add +6(basically prof bonus) to their Attack roll, Damage, Armor class, or one type of Ability Check
The issue with this question is that 5th edition does not try to make the feature at level X worth being earned at level X. Instead, the game is designed so that all 20 levels of one class are "worth it" compared to all 20 levels of another class - with some getting their best features early, some getting them late, and a mix of in-betweens.
The ranger class, in my opinion, can seem a bit underwhelming because it's best features aren't big and flashy like those of some other classes are, and their most unique trait as a class is to be packed with more numerous "ribbon" features than any other class.
As to what I can answer of the question regarding Foe Slayer; I think the ability is pretty cool, while not being particularly outstanding - but I know my positive opinion on it is based upon my assumptions as a DM, specifically that if someone is playing a ranger in my campaign, I will be helping them to have good choices for their favored enemies (ones they'll actually be facing frequently) rather than leaving them to guess at what will or won't feature in the campaign. So I don't think the feature is so bad that a ranger player would rather fit in 1 level of another class than go straight ranger from 1st to 20th.
Following this line of thinking, the level 20 feature of the bard is even more underwhelming.
But I agree with @AaronOfBarbaria. Besides, you can use Foe Slayer once on each of your turn...it doesn't expire. It is quite useful and appropriate for the class.
By 20th level Paladins can turn into angels for a minute, Clerics can speak directly to their god and get any favour they want, and Wizards become gods and Rangers get...
"At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. Once on each of your turns, you can add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the damage roll of an attack you make against one of your favored enemies. You can choose to use this feature before or after the roll, but before any effects of the roll are applied."
This sucks in my opinion. Devotion Paladins get their secondary ability modifier to attack rolls when they reach 3rd level (for 1 min), and blade singers get their primary modifier to damage while blade singing at lvl 14 (for 1-2 min).
How can we make rangers lvl 20 awesome?
Easy: by making their 20th level fighter. Or rogue. Or wizard. Or... well you get the idea. Some class 'capstones' basically dare players not to multiclass, and ranger is a shining example. As to how to make the lvl 20 ability worthwhile? How about advantage vs favored enemies- on attacks, saves, ability checks, everything. Lvl 20 abilities are supposed to be a little broken, and this would do that while featuring the thing that makes Rangers unique from other classes: expertise vs specific creatures. (Like calling an exterminator, except for aberrations, instead of bugs...)
The UA Revised Ranger version of this capstone applies to all enemies, not just favored, which is in itself a massive improvement. Actually makes it pretty solid.
i like where the revised ranger is going with foe slayer, and i agree it makes it far better. But i still find myself wanting more.
maybe if once per turn they got to add their wis mod to both the attack roll and damage. or they got to choose at the start of their turns (like barbs reckless attack) whether to add their wis mod to their damage of attack rolls. maybe something like what FinleyFair said, at the end of every short rest they got advantage or something to their choice of Saves, Attack rolls, Ability checks or other stuff.
i do agree that the ability is thematically appropriate, but if the oath of the ancients paladin can become an avatar of nature why can't the ranger (i don't know what mechanical buffs this would do)
It would be cool if you got the bonus of wisdom on your rolls, but after each favoured enemy you kill, your turn begins again. So long as you make a kill, you keep going.
Really it's only defense being 1 5th level spell slot and an asi
and lvl 20 doesn't have those anymore, heck taking druid levels there massively improves your spell slots and even if you only take a single level in it and get a level 6 spellslot for it it's still better than this!
Or take a single level in rogue, getting sneak attack, expertise and thieves cant
Or 3 levels and arcane trickster, still get that 2nd 5 level spell slot cunning action and 2d6 sneak attack
Or go fighter a for action surge and cool subclass action, or again the subspellcaster route
Or **** level 17-20 intirely as they suck and go druid 4 for even more spellslots, shapechange, an asi, a cool druid subclass...yeah honestly 16 ranger 4 druid is just a better ranger than a ranger
Wow high level ranger abilities are so bad it's better to just go completely of track...
You could go cleric for spiritual weapon more spellslots, channel divinity, a banger spell list and a subclass
Or sorcerer for creative use of ur spells and cool shit depending on your subclass
So i disagree, level 20-17 ranger needs an upgrade.Honestly depending on the subclass going even more of script might be the right choice here.
Hunter subclass for example could use a dropout at 11 or 12. The rest could be more druid and fighter. Wich is ridiculous but it's just more effective.or even crazier stuff
Foe slayer is fine. Not great but fine. The fact that you choose after the roll means you will be able to get either a hit you would have missed or the extra damage every time you attack a valid target. This combined with 5th level slots gives a lot of potential. But if it's not enough the fact that it might encourage a small dip can also boon.
Never played a game after level 20 in 5E anyway so its never bothered me. In my homebrew fix to Ranger I had a damage bonus applied to Favored Enemy (for the Ranger and his Beast if he had one) equal to the Ranger's Proficiency Bonus, for Foe Slayer it simply added half Favored Enemy bonus (+3) to attack vs FEs for the Ranger and his Beast.
As Rosco hinted at the great benefits of foe slayer are that you get to apply it to your to hit rolls - this is far bigger than a lot of folks realize Giving you an extra 15-25% chance AFTER you roll to try and make sure you hit. You apply it to damage only if you don’t need it/can’t use it on the to hits.
As Rosco hinted at the great benefits of foe slayer are that you get to apply it to your to hit rolls - this is far bigger than a lot of folks realize Giving you an extra 15-25% chance AFTER you roll to try and make sure you hit. You apply it to damage only if you don’t need it/can’t use it on the to hits.
If you talked to your DM and made good selections it should apply to most of your foes especially the begs. How many high level foes are not humans/ elves/ aberations/ fiends or dragons? Or undead - this is where session zeros are so important - you should have clues or outright advice from the DM about what foes to favor.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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By 20th level Paladins can turn into angels for a minute, Clerics can speak directly to their god and get any favour they want, and Wizards become gods and Rangers get...
"At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. Once on each of your turns, you can add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the damage roll of an attack you make against one of your favored enemies. You can choose to use this feature before or after the roll, but before any effects of the roll are applied."
This sucks in my opinion. Devotion Paladins get their secondary ability modifier to attack rolls when they reach 3rd level (for 1 min), and blade singers get their primary modifier to damage while blade singing at lvl 14 (for 1-2 min).
How can we make rangers lvl 20 awesome?
Personally i think the Ranger should gain the ability to add +6(basically prof bonus) to their Attack roll, Damage, Armor class, or one type of Ability Check
The issue with this question is that 5th edition does not try to make the feature at level X worth being earned at level X. Instead, the game is designed so that all 20 levels of one class are "worth it" compared to all 20 levels of another class - with some getting their best features early, some getting them late, and a mix of in-betweens.
The ranger class, in my opinion, can seem a bit underwhelming because it's best features aren't big and flashy like those of some other classes are, and their most unique trait as a class is to be packed with more numerous "ribbon" features than any other class.
As to what I can answer of the question regarding Foe Slayer; I think the ability is pretty cool, while not being particularly outstanding - but I know my positive opinion on it is based upon my assumptions as a DM, specifically that if someone is playing a ranger in my campaign, I will be helping them to have good choices for their favored enemies (ones they'll actually be facing frequently) rather than leaving them to guess at what will or won't feature in the campaign. So I don't think the feature is so bad that a ranger player would rather fit in 1 level of another class than go straight ranger from 1st to 20th.
Following this line of thinking, the level 20 feature of the bard is even more underwhelming.
But I agree with @AaronOfBarbaria. Besides, you can use Foe Slayer once on each of your turn...it doesn't expire. It is quite useful and appropriate for the class.
I think Ranger, like Bard, is safely one of the classes you can dip into another class without losing much.
The UA Revised Ranger version of this capstone applies to all enemies, not just favored, which is in itself a massive improvement. Actually makes it pretty solid.
i like where the revised ranger is going with foe slayer, and i agree it makes it far better. But i still find myself wanting more.
maybe if once per turn they got to add their wis mod to both the attack roll and damage. or they got to choose at the start of their turns (like barbs reckless attack) whether to add their wis mod to their damage of attack rolls. maybe something like what FinleyFair said, at the end of every short rest they got advantage or something to their choice of Saves, Attack rolls, Ability checks or other stuff.
i do agree that the ability is thematically appropriate, but if the oath of the ancients paladin can become an avatar of nature why can't the ranger (i don't know what mechanical buffs this would do)
It would be cool if you got the bonus of wisdom on your rolls, but after each favoured enemy you kill, your turn begins again. So long as you make a kill, you keep going.
Nah Ranger levels 18-20 are complete garbage
Really it's only defense being 1 5th level spell slot and an asi
and lvl 20 doesn't have those anymore, heck taking druid levels there massively improves your spell slots and even if you only take a single level in it and get a level 6 spellslot for it it's still better than this!
Or take a single level in rogue, getting sneak attack, expertise and thieves cant
Or 3 levels and arcane trickster, still get that 2nd 5 level spell slot cunning action and 2d6 sneak attack
Or go fighter a for action surge and cool subclass action, or again the subspellcaster route
Or **** level 17-20 intirely as they suck and go druid 4 for even more spellslots, shapechange, an asi, a cool druid subclass...yeah honestly 16 ranger 4 druid is just a better ranger than a ranger
Wow high level ranger abilities are so bad it's better to just go completely of track...
You could go cleric for spiritual weapon more spellslots, channel divinity, a banger spell list and a subclass
Or sorcerer for creative use of ur spells and cool shit depending on your subclass
So i disagree, level 20-17 ranger needs an upgrade.Honestly depending on the subclass going even more of script might be the right choice here.
Hunter subclass for example could use a dropout at 11 or 12. The rest could be more druid and fighter. Wich is ridiculous but it's just more effective.or even crazier stuff
Foe slayer is fine. Not great but fine. The fact that you choose after the roll means you will be able to get either a hit you would have missed or the extra damage every time you attack a valid target. This combined with 5th level slots gives a lot of potential. But if it's not enough the fact that it might encourage a small dip can also boon.
Never played a game after level 20 in 5E anyway so its never bothered me. In my homebrew fix to Ranger I had a damage bonus applied to Favored Enemy (for the Ranger and his Beast if he had one) equal to the Ranger's Proficiency Bonus, for Foe Slayer it simply added half Favored Enemy bonus (+3) to attack vs FEs for the Ranger and his Beast.
As Rosco hinted at the great benefits of foe slayer are that you get to apply it to your to hit rolls - this is far bigger than a lot of folks realize Giving you an extra 15-25% chance AFTER you roll to try and make sure you hit. You apply it to damage only if you don’t need it/can’t use it on the to hits.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If only it applied to all your enemies...
If you talked to your DM and made good selections it should apply to most of your foes especially the begs. How many high level foes are not humans/ elves/ aberations/ fiends or dragons? Or undead - this is where session zeros are so important - you should have clues or outright advice from the DM about what foes to favor.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.