They suck, most of their abilities are situational, subclasses aren’t better, I mean beast master you just get a beast which uses its turn oh if that isn’t bad enough let’s make it it needs to be your challenge rating. Prove me wrong. :)
The original 5E ranger was weak. But most of the subclasses since then have been an improvement. Also the Tasha’s cauldron provided a big fix to the base class and the beast master
The original 5E ranger was weak. But most of the subclasses since then have been an improvement. Also the Tasha’s cauldron provided a big fix to the base class and the beast master
Hmmmm true. They did update all classes in Tasha’s didn’t they. I don’t actually have Tasha’s though so I don’t know improvements. Please elaborate.
The phb ranger was fine within the context of phb and role-playing. It filled a niche in the game that no other classes could provide. That being said, it was not designed for every player type.
Tashas gave a broader appeal. Many abilities were reduced for reliability but people who never used such features don't care.
Hide in plain sight is the only way to beat truesight high perception creatures while being observed in your hiding place. The new one gives bonus action invisibility for short term.
Primeval awareness could beat non-detection and be used to for triangulation. Primal awareness gives free known spells and a single use of those spells (still situational but reliable)
Tashas beastmaster has clean action economy but the beasts loose unique traits like blindsight or poison.
And more...
Overall having both (tasha's and phb) allows to most ranger players to find an appealing build as you could mix and match features by choice.
Too be honest I have a rule about who I play with and it all comes down to how they treat the ranger. Players who are bigoted and unfair to phb rangers will probably not be fun to play with because they don't play the same game or have the same social contract as me.
Rangers never sucked. Even the PHB version. As mentioned above, Gloomstalkers with CBE + SS are probably the most powerful martial characters in the game, surpassing even Paladins and Fighters — and I’ll explain why.
The main competitive advantage of Rangers since PHB times is their amazing spell list. It’s not as big as Wizards or Druids, but it’s super versatile. After TCoE their spell list got barely broken.
The problem is that people usually thinks that the only spell Rangers should cast is Hunter’s Mark. Of course that a modest +1d6 damage bonus will feel bad and I do agree that Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer are situational at best. But so as Second Wind, or Divine Sense, or Disease Immunity.
When you analyze thoroughly spells Rangers have available and see things like Absorb Elements, Goodberry, Ensnaring Strike, Fog Cloud, Longstrider; Silence, Pass Without Trace, Spike Growth (only PHB), plus the potential of a full martial character with fighting style, extra attack and several amazing combat perks from subclasses, you realize how truly powerful Rangers are. And I don’t even mention spells from other sourcebooks like Entangle, Zephyr’s Strike, Aid, Summon Beast and etc.
Paladins have probably a comparable if not best spell list, they are also half-casters, have Divine Smite and their lovely aura at level 6. But their opportunity cost to cast a spell always diminishes against investing in Smite. Rangers don’t need to worry about that. And most of their best spells have a good duration and can serve in more than one encounter.
Any spell slots left after finishing the day and preparing to long rest? Just cast a bunch of Goodberries for breakfast.
Pass Without Trace is probably one of the best level 2 spells in the game if the DM follows RAW for surprise and stealth rules — a full surprise round to your entire party is immensely powerful.
Believe me… I have saw seasoned Rangers trivializing hard encounters with just some goodberries, Pass Without Trace and a couple arrows properly boosted by Sharpshooter.
I am new to D&D, so have only played a ranger at this point. Our party of 6 includes two rangers. One took hunter and I took drakewarden. We typically stay at back of party and drop enemies with longbow. My drake will advance and assist or distract during combats - dodge is a great action for the drake. It will also circle around and cut off escape or hit targets further out. I use summon beast spell now that we are level 5, and that again is hugely useful for controlling battlefield. Beast can be placed next to my drake and the two can help keep enemy from flanking us. It can also take damage and allow our paladin and barbarian to survive better.
I think what matters do we have fun with that character - and I do. The rest of the party seems appreciative of the abilities.
Our party was in a wooded battle the other night with a few forest giants. We did well and the giant leader was the only one standing but hurt badly. I shifted hadhunters mark on it and favored ememy giants, plus Natural explorer favored terrian forest and cast pass with out trace as we let it escape. Followed shortly behinf and found it in their lair. Killed the giant band leader and found lots of treasure.
Not sure if Rangers are super powerful but they hold their own and lend so much to a party. Incidently we were low on supplies so I feed everybody with good berries and also found nuts and a deer we smoked for the next day.
Every class has ribbon abilities. Battlemasters have artesan’s tool and Know your Enemy. Bear Totem Barbarians have free cast of minor spells. Paladins have Divine Sense and Sacred Health. I would say that that Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer are situational, but they are really good when applicable.
A basic PHB Ranger Hunter at level 5 with Horde Breaker, Archery fighting style, CBE and Pass Without Trace is attacking 3-4x times every round, with a consistent +2 bonus to hit and probably having an entire full surprise round before enemies can even act.
And then at level 9 you get Conjure Animals and suddenly Rangers are the new DPR king attacking twice in a row + eight wolves with Pack Tactics. 10 attacks in a round. This is crazy.
After I responded the first time I realized the original poster's name has a history of starting ranger related topics with extreme titles. Maybe its the same person. It's at least partially meme. Apparently, either way it's not considered trolling if you hate on ranger no matter how blatant.
The forums have been relatively calm for the ranger hate. Some people need to feed such discussions otherwise they can't get their jollies at night.
If you don't like a class, don't play it. If you don't know how to play a class, don't play it. Why does every single gottdang comment section have to have a dozen threads entitled, "This class sucks!" or "This spell sucks!" or "This game sucks!" ???
If you don't like it, don't play it. But other people do like it, so why not just keep your negative attitude to yourself and let other people have their own fun? Not every idea that pops into your head needs to be typed onto the internet.
Hmmmmmm, did it occur to you that no opinion is wrong my good sir, it’s an opinion, I’m asking if I have missed something and listed the things that I believe make it bad so people can prove me wrong and I can get a better understanding of them.
The original 5E ranger was weak. But most of the subclasses since then have been an improvement. Also the Tasha’s cauldron provided a big fix to the base class and the beast master
Thank you. Well said.
It wasn't even original 5e ranger was weak.
Most of a rangers' "weakness" comes from bad DM'ing:
"Favored terrain is situational and..." Why is the DM not working with the players, letting them know general topographic landscapes of a planet that they live on, were born on, and have been living in their whole lives? A 110 year old wood elf ranger would definitely know if there are, forests, or mountains, or etc. In the world he lives in, and how much of the world is covered by what. Unless there is literally no knowledge of the world outside of villages and travel between villages is exceedingly rare. Or the setting is you are literally "shifted" to somewhere like you're in an Isekai.
Rangers have been designed to be a Utility/support class from the get go. Much like Monk. They don't need to have the highest DPR because they can still do a good amount of DPR and from any range. They don't need to be the fastest movement speed, because in specific terrains, or in difficult terrains, they move quicker than the fastest of Tabaxi monks. They are better at stealth missions that don't involve actuallyu stealing/picking locks than Rogues are, and they can make their party around them better at it as well where the rogue has to solo it.
Most parties, and DMs, do not really... "allow time for ambushes" which is a shame, but rangers are very suited to pulling off ambushes. Leroy Jenkins is the enemy to rangers' ambush capabilities and there are many Leroy Jenkins.
Even the original beastmaster- it's bad. Truthfully. BUT, It was good, if one wanted to play a small race character that would of had limited movement speed, because now they can use different beasts as a mount. EX: forest gnome - not a popular ranger race choice. But a gnome forest ranger beast master riding their Panther/beast of the land/beast of the sea (for sea campaigns) beast companion, is very very threatening. - Think Mongolian Horseback Archers, and how that strategy was able to conquer 1/2 the known world.
Even the original beastmaster was fine if you were willing to build around5e expectations. Methods of of gaining skills and saves (via training<skills only> or magic items). Need a damage boost follow the raw poison harvesting rules and it becomes an interesting trade off. Use the extra reaction,the extra concentration, use equipment, use tactics, use "fail forward" death opportunities. Bond custom npcs the dm brings(pirate's monkey thief pet or trained adventure animals or the smart carrion bird following adventures or enemies).
The action economy "hurts feelings" but you Gain alot if you're willing to take advantage of it.
Anyone that says rangers are bad have never actually played one or has no clue how to build and play them. I recently played a swarmkeeper in a party of 6 players and was consistently out performing all of them in combat and exploration. The only thing she wasn’t good at was the face role.
They suck, most of their abilities are situational, subclasses aren’t better, I mean beast master you just get a beast which uses its turn oh if that isn’t bad enough let’s make it it needs to be your challenge rating. Prove me wrong. :)
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
The original 5E ranger was weak. But most of the subclasses since then have been an improvement. Also the Tasha’s cauldron provided a big fix to the base class and the beast master
Hmmmm true. They did update all classes in Tasha’s didn’t they. I don’t actually have Tasha’s though so I don’t know improvements. Please elaborate.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
The phb ranger was fine within the context of phb and role-playing. It filled a niche in the game that no other classes could provide. That being said, it was not designed for every player type.
Tashas gave a broader appeal. Many abilities were reduced for reliability but people who never used such features don't care.
Hide in plain sight is the only way to beat truesight high perception creatures while being observed in your hiding place. The new one gives bonus action invisibility for short term.
Primeval awareness could beat non-detection and be used to for triangulation. Primal awareness gives free known spells and a single use of those spells (still situational but reliable)
Tashas beastmaster has clean action economy but the beasts loose unique traits like blindsight or poison.
And more...
Overall having both (tasha's and phb) allows to most ranger players to find an appealing build as you could mix and match features by choice.
Too be honest I have a rule about who I play with and it all comes down to how they treat the ranger. Players who are bigoted and unfair to phb rangers will probably not be fun to play with because they don't play the same game or have the same social contract as me.
My 4th level ranger gloomstalker with crossbow expert can do a potential of 28 points of damage per round, and that is without magic.
Rangers never sucked. Even the PHB version. As mentioned above, Gloomstalkers with CBE + SS are probably the most powerful martial characters in the game, surpassing even Paladins and Fighters — and I’ll explain why.
The main competitive advantage of Rangers since PHB times is their amazing spell list. It’s not as big as Wizards or Druids, but it’s super versatile. After TCoE their spell list got barely broken.
The problem is that people usually thinks that the only spell Rangers should cast is Hunter’s Mark. Of course that a modest +1d6 damage bonus will feel bad and I do agree that Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer are situational at best. But so as Second Wind, or Divine Sense, or Disease Immunity.
When you analyze thoroughly spells Rangers have available and see things like Absorb Elements, Goodberry, Ensnaring Strike, Fog Cloud, Longstrider; Silence, Pass Without Trace, Spike Growth (only PHB), plus the potential of a full martial character with fighting style, extra attack and several amazing combat perks from subclasses, you realize how truly powerful Rangers are. And I don’t even mention spells from other sourcebooks like Entangle, Zephyr’s Strike, Aid, Summon Beast and etc.
Paladins have probably a comparable if not best spell list, they are also half-casters, have Divine Smite and their lovely aura at level 6. But their opportunity cost to cast a spell always diminishes against investing in Smite. Rangers don’t need to worry about that. And most of their best spells have a good duration and can serve in more than one encounter.
Any spell slots left after finishing the day and preparing to long rest? Just cast a bunch of Goodberries for breakfast.
Pass Without Trace is probably one of the best level 2 spells in the game if the DM follows RAW for surprise and stealth rules — a full surprise round to your entire party is immensely powerful.
Believe me… I have saw seasoned Rangers trivializing hard encounters with just some goodberries, Pass Without Trace and a couple arrows properly boosted by Sharpshooter.
I am new to D&D, so have only played a ranger at this point. Our party of 6 includes two rangers. One took hunter and I took drakewarden. We typically stay at back of party and drop enemies with longbow. My drake will advance and assist or distract during combats - dodge is a great action for the drake. It will also circle around and cut off escape or hit targets further out. I use summon beast spell now that we are level 5, and that again is hugely useful for controlling battlefield. Beast can be placed next to my drake and the two can help keep enemy from flanking us. It can also take damage and allow our paladin and barbarian to survive better.
I think what matters do we have fun with that character - and I do. The rest of the party seems appreciative of the abilities.
Our party was in a wooded battle the other night with a few forest giants. We did well and the giant leader was the only one standing but hurt badly. I shifted hadhunters mark on it and favored ememy giants, plus Natural explorer favored terrian forest and cast pass with out trace as we let it escape. Followed shortly behinf and found it in their lair. Killed the giant band leader and found lots of treasure.
Not sure if Rangers are super powerful but they hold their own and lend so much to a party. Incidently we were low on supplies so I feed everybody with good berries and also found nuts and a deer we smoked for the next day.
Every class has ribbon abilities. Battlemasters have artesan’s tool and Know your Enemy. Bear Totem Barbarians have free cast of minor spells. Paladins have Divine Sense and Sacred Health. I would say that that Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer are situational, but they are really good when applicable.
A basic PHB Ranger Hunter at level 5 with Horde Breaker, Archery fighting style, CBE and Pass Without Trace is attacking 3-4x times every round, with a consistent +2 bonus to hit and probably having an entire full surprise round before enemies can even act.
Rangers suck?
Tell that to my Ranger who’s the only one who managed to come through a near-TPK with any HP left.
If I haven’t offended you, don’t worry. I’m sure I’ll get to you eventually.
Really though, I don’t think they suck. I’m not going to elaborate more because several people hears have already done a great job.
If I haven’t offended you, don’t worry. I’m sure I’ll get to you eventually.
And then at level 9 you get Conjure Animals and suddenly Rangers are the new DPR king attacking twice in a row + eight wolves with Pack Tactics. 10 attacks in a round. This is crazy.
After I responded the first time I realized the original poster's name has a history of starting ranger related topics with extreme titles. Maybe its the same person. It's at least partially meme. Apparently, either way it's not considered trolling if you hate on ranger no matter how blatant.
The forums have been relatively calm for the ranger hate. Some people need to feed such discussions otherwise they can't get their jollies at night.
Hmmmmmm, did it occur to you that no opinion is wrong my good sir, it’s an opinion, I’m asking if I have missed something and listed the things that I believe make it bad so people can prove me wrong and I can get a better understanding of them.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
It wasn't even original 5e ranger was weak.
Most of a rangers' "weakness" comes from bad DM'ing:
"Favored terrain is situational and..." Why is the DM not working with the players, letting them know general topographic landscapes of a planet that they live on, were born on, and have been living in their whole lives? A 110 year old wood elf ranger would definitely know if there are, forests, or mountains, or etc. In the world he lives in, and how much of the world is covered by what. Unless there is literally no knowledge of the world outside of villages and travel between villages is exceedingly rare. Or the setting is you are literally "shifted" to somewhere like you're in an Isekai.
Rangers have been designed to be a Utility/support class from the get go. Much like Monk. They don't need to have the highest DPR because they can still do a good amount of DPR and from any range. They don't need to be the fastest movement speed, because in specific terrains, or in difficult terrains, they move quicker than the fastest of Tabaxi monks. They are better at stealth missions that don't involve actuallyu stealing/picking locks than Rogues are, and they can make their party around them better at it as well where the rogue has to solo it.
Most parties, and DMs, do not really... "allow time for ambushes" which is a shame, but rangers are very suited to pulling off ambushes. Leroy Jenkins is the enemy to rangers' ambush capabilities and there are many Leroy Jenkins.
Even the original beastmaster- it's bad. Truthfully. BUT, It was good, if one wanted to play a small race character that would of had limited movement speed, because now they can use different beasts as a mount. EX: forest gnome - not a popular ranger race choice. But a gnome forest ranger beast master riding their Panther/beast of the land/beast of the sea (for sea campaigns) beast companion, is very very threatening. - Think Mongolian Horseback Archers, and how that strategy was able to conquer 1/2 the known world.
Blank
Even the original beastmaster was fine if you were willing to build around5e expectations. Methods of of gaining skills and saves (via training<skills only> or magic items). Need a damage boost follow the raw poison harvesting rules and it becomes an interesting trade off. Use the extra reaction,the extra concentration, use equipment, use tactics, use "fail forward" death opportunities. Bond custom npcs the dm brings(pirate's monkey thief pet or trained adventure animals or the smart carrion bird following adventures or enemies).
The action economy "hurts feelings" but you Gain alot if you're willing to take advantage of it.
Anyone that says rangers are bad have never actually played one or has no clue how to build and play them. I recently played a swarmkeeper in a party of 6 players and was consistently out performing all of them in combat and exploration. The only thing she wasn’t good at was the face role.
Rangers are fun and interesting. Lots to do to help a party survive through out a day and they more than hold their own in combat.
I don’t understand why you replied to me?
must have clicked on the wrong post reply