I wonder how much of it would be changed from the UA? If so I know people have called it "just a better beastmaster" but I haven't played the class or really looked at it too much.
I wonder how much of it would be changed from the UA? If so I know people have called it "just a better beastmaster" but I haven't played the class or really looked at it too much.
It was one of their earlier attempts at doing things based upon your proficiency bonus and through using extra spell slots we see in Primal companion but that's where the similarity kind of ends other than being a pet subclass.
your Dragon Companion is just a summoned animal without concentration. It only sticks around in an amount of time based upon your proficiency bonus so it is not potentially permanent like the beast masters pet. you summon it free for once and then you can just keep popping it out when it dies for a spell slot a piece after that.
On top of that has a damage immunity type picked each time you summon it. (acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison I believe) which it can use it's reaction when someone hits within 30 feet of it to add that damage type to their strike (doesn't have to be the ranger, doesn't even have to be a party member ironically) The damage from this and it's immunity type much match because they are based upon it's "draconic essence" so basically it's elemental type. It's own basic attack is melee but it does 1d6 plus it's elemental type in damage for the hit.
It starts out small and it's ac starts at 14+ your Proficiency bonus so it's armor is typically a little better on the Drake compared to the primal companion counterparts it most resembles but their HP will work out to the same when you ignore the fact that you can just resummon it. Mind you. This is all just level 3.
At level 7 the PC gets resistance based upon that same draconic essence thing that can be switched based upon summoning. The Drake gains either a swim (and water breathing) or fly speed at this level. AND the Damage of the beast for it's basic melee attack goes up by an additional 1d6 of elemental damage.
At 11th level the PC, not the Drake, gets a breath weapon that hits a 30' cone and does 6d6 damage of an elemental type for 6d6 damage (dex save for half) of one of the elemental types for the Draconic essence but this time it is completely independent of what the Drake's element is. The damage scales to 8d6 automatically from this feature at level 15, And this is repeatable every time after the first for a 3rd level or higher spell slot. This is completely independent of the Drake and the drake gets nothing. This power doesn't even require the drake to be summoned to use it.
At level 15. The Drake immediately goes from being Small to Being Large. No change to it's base stats for the change. But the physical and elemental damage go up by 1d6 at this level. (effectively being 2d6 over the base level 3 for the elemental damage from stacking with level 7). And whenever you and the Drake are within 30 feet. you can now use the PC's reaction to gain resistance to one instance of damage for either the pc or the drake. literally any kind of damage. Even worse than any kind of damage is the use of the wording Instance and not type of damage, Which means depending on how you interpret it. This could anything from one type of damage in a multi-type hit or it actually is instant resistance to many types of damage all accrued in a singular instance of damage which could lead to some saying you could try to do something like jump through a prismatic wall and gain resistance to all of the 8 or 10 kinds of damage it deals by using this ability. Most might be ok with it blocking the double damage types like an ice storm or the damage another drake wardens drake would do but i think you can see the potential abuse her.
So it's not just a better beast master. it is pretty OP thing that mostly dwarfs everything about the Beast Master in one way or another. It Feels almost like the only thing it's missing in a homebrew's attempt to power game is to have the Drake be able to multi attack long about level 11 where the drake itself doesn't get any abilities of it's own, and then claiming it's perfectly balanced when it starts single handedly chewing through combat encounters.
If it’s OP, it will get “nerfed” for the official release and people will hate it like favored foe. LOL!
Damned if they do...
Or it just comes out....like Twilight cleric.
Twilight Cleric isn't that OP. People just don't know how to deal with it because they'd been discounting healing and stuff for a long time now. The irony is that Twilight Cleric is overcome primarily by their favorite tactic. Lot of small things making many attacks to overwhelm things. The other way to deal with it is the vast number of ways to incapacitate people that many haven't learned about because all anybody ever espouses is more damage. Even though incapacitation shuts down a lot of things. Another Thing to note about the power is that it has a weakness of they have to end their turn within 30' of the Cleric for them to gain any benefits. But they have to take their actions first. Several kinds of things that inflict frightened actually make the target run away to the best of your ability. Several forms of charm can be used to make them move away from the Cleric. Thus the power doesn't work and even the hp doesn't work. Also even if they are removing frightened or charmed. That is a turn they aren't getting any kind of temp hp and temp hp doesn't stack. yes 2-10hp is like getting an extra level's worth of health on a low level character. But considering that many low level threats can concievably cut through low level party health in jus a turn or two. This jus lengthens the fight. Primarily because this is not actual healing. So any damage you do past the temp hp is still chipping their hp down so unless the Twilight Druid is doing a lot of healing to keep things topped up. It's very easy to shove characters into positions where yes they have temp hp but their actual hp is very low and thus they are still in threat of being knocked out or even dying without the buffer. Also since Temp HP is not healing. They do not get it when they are unconcious and it does not bring them back up on their feet. So when you knock them down they need actual healing. This is something that I've seen a few people misunderstand about Temp HP.
As for Drakewarden… I just don't like it in general. I also don't think it's better than the Beast Master, as you're trading flexibility and customisation for a complicated bit of extra damage; it's stronger at earlier levels thanks to having a bonus action attack command right away, but beyond that its damage is actually more minor than you might think at higher levels. Damage resistance and the dragon's breath ability are good, but I like Beast Master better both mechanically and thematically, in spite of its own problems. Being able to cast a spell on both yourself and your companion simultaneously is a great feature, and IMO better than the uncanny dodge the Drakewarden gets.
The main advantage the Drakewarden has is being able to re-summon the dragon with a spell slot, and that's probably the most OP part (should be higher than 1st level); but if you're playing a campaign with a DM who actually likes the idea of their Beast Master player having fun then they shouldn't be killing off the pet at every chance anyway. Beast Master is one of those sub-classes where a DM should be happy to make some allowances because the pet creature is usually fun for everyone when properly integrated.
I dunno, it has its strengths if all you care about from a pet creature is damage, but it's just so boring mechanically and it doesn't really capture the theme IMO. The Beast Master is riddled with issues, but mechanically it fits its theme really well, and is a lot of fun with a little DM support (equipment for the pet, tweaked stats so you can up-scale weaker creatures that better fit your character etc.). Personally I hope that Drakewarden is either not included, reduced down to just being a new special "dragon companion" profile for Beast Master (like the special companions in Tasha's) or redesigned heavily.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
A 6th level Twilight cleric with 4 friends get into a fight....
The twilight cleric throws up its CD to help and puts out 9.5 HP per person per round....this means that in 1 round they add 38 HP to the table.
that means if the fight lasts 3 rounds they have added 114 HP to the table...granted this is spread out but that is a LOT of THP.
A CR 6 creature per the DMG should put out about 39–44 damage per round. This reduced by just 9.5 every round (assuming only 1 person benefits from this CD) drops the offensive CR of the creature by 2 levels at least (CR4 = 27-32 damage).
Now is this insurmountable by the DM? No you just throw harder creatures at them.....but still that is a bit much in my book for a single ability that returns on a short rest that does not even require concentration.
My main issue with it is that it highly encourages you as a DM to focus fire that Twilight cleric nearly all the time....which doesn't seem fun for me as a DM or for the Cleric player.
To the point about lower levels...its actually affects higher level CRs more often if they are pure damage monsters. At level 10 you are seeing offensive CRs drop to CR7 which is a pretty big drop in numbers.
Now a good DM will know this and figure out a way around it no problem....but an inexperienced DM will struggle with this as they will need to push the encounters to a higher level than they might feel comfortable.
I would be fine with one in a campaign but I do think the ability is overbalanced.
A 6th level Twilight cleric with 4 friends get into a fight....
The twilight cleric throws up its CD to help and puts out 9.5 HP per person per round....this means that in 1 round they add 38 HP to the table.
that means if the fight lasts 3 rounds they have added 114 HP to the table...granted this is spread out but that is a LOT of THP.
A CR 6 creature per the DMG should put out about 39–44 damage per round. This reduced by just 9.5 every round (assuming only 1 person benefits from this CD) drops the offensive CR of the creature by 2 levels at least (CR4 = 27-32 damage).
Now is this insurmountable by the DM? No you just throw harder creatures at them.....but still that is a bit much in my book for a single ability that returns on a short rest that does not even require concentration.
My main issue with it is that it highly encourages you as a DM to focus fire that Twilight cleric nearly all the time....which doesn't seem fun for me as a DM or for the Cleric player.
To the point about lower levels...its actually affects higher level CRs more often if they are pure damage monsters. At level 10 you are seeing offensive CRs drop to CR7 which is a pretty big drop in numbers.
Now a good DM will know this and figure out a way around it no problem....but an inexperienced DM will struggle with this as they will need to push the encounters to a higher level than they might feel comfortable.
I would be fine with one in a campaign but I do think the ability is overbalanced.
This is misrepresentative. Really any enemy that is not hit on average will not be gaining new Temp HP from round to round.
So the huge numbers of Temp HP only apply to the first round. Every round following assuming that everybody in the party is not getting hit. Which realistically even with Temp HP they should not be doing. The Average temp Hp of 9 per person is only putting somewhere between 9 and 27 hp depending on what is doing the hitting. How many they are and how spread out their targets are.
On top of this. Your average level 60 Character has around 55hp give or take. So If you still have an overflow of Damage that is a quarter to half of their hp and all of the party is taking this much a turn. The Party is standing a good chance of losing even if the Twilight Cleric does have all 5 people within their circle and gaining Temp Hp. But this is also making them more likely to be hit by AoE attacks from fireball as well for being grouped up. There is also the issue that temp hp are not being gained if it's being used to remove certain conditions, assuming the person is even within the range of it to have those conditions removed which reduces it's effectiveness as well.
The Temp HP is nice. But the characters are going to fall. And again. Each character that falls is not going to get it's temp HP for the turn. Reducing the amount of HP that is put into play anyway. And for those groups that are used to using healing for something besides quick Yoyo's after a persons hp has been deminished to the point that they are unconcious they are mostly dealing with These kinds of HP being put back in over potentially multiple turns anyway.
For Example the Shepard Druid is capable of putting just as much Hp into play each turn as the Twilight Druid. The switch up is that it's actual healing instead of Temp HP so it doesn't stack above and beyond. But at the same time. I does apply to those that get knocked unconscious as an alternative. So there are moments where they aren't doing as much and there are moments where they are managing more within their effective radius. A 6th level Shepard Druid with a simple healing word and it's spirit effect which lasts a similar time is going to put Roughly the same amount of healing potential as the Twilight Cleric's temp Hp. Thanks to the fact that it's doing 6hp to all of them in the same 30 meter radius that does not have to be perfectly centered on the druid and the average 6hp from a 1st level healing word.
While the resources are a bit different. The end results of what the Twilight Cleric is doing have already been in the game for a while. The Resource Costs are slightly in the favor of the Twilight Cleric since the key component for each of them recharges on a short rest. But the positioning advantage is on the part of the Shepard Druid.
Like I said. Just target and overwhelm the crap out of it with damage. Or use various things that will incapacitate. it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be. Most just haven't really figured out how to deal with it so it seems OP even though it's something that's already existed but they haven't bothered to use much or had DM's use against them when they could be.
A 6th level Twilight cleric with 4 friends get into a fight....
The twilight cleric throws up its CD to help and puts out 9.5 HP per person per round....this means that in 1 round they add 38 HP to the table.
that means if the fight lasts 3 rounds they have added 114 HP to the table...granted this is spread out but that is a LOT of THP.
A CR 6 creature per the DMG should put out about 39–44 damage per round. This reduced by just 9.5 every round (assuming only 1 person benefits from this CD) drops the offensive CR of the creature by 2 levels at least (CR4 = 27-32 damage).
Now is this insurmountable by the DM? No you just throw harder creatures at them.....but still that is a bit much in my book for a single ability that returns on a short rest that does not even require concentration.
My main issue with it is that it highly encourages you as a DM to focus fire that Twilight cleric nearly all the time....which doesn't seem fun for me as a DM or for the Cleric player.
To the point about lower levels...its actually affects higher level CRs more often if they are pure damage monsters. At level 10 you are seeing offensive CRs drop to CR7 which is a pretty big drop in numbers.
Now a good DM will know this and figure out a way around it no problem....but an inexperienced DM will struggle with this as they will need to push the encounters to a higher level than they might feel comfortable.
I would be fine with one in a campaign but I do think the ability is overbalanced.
This is misrepresentative. Really any enemy that is not hit on average will not be gaining new Temp HP from round to round.
So the huge numbers of Temp HP only apply to the first round. Every round following assuming that everybody in the party is not getting hit. Which realistically even with Temp HP they should not be doing. The Average temp Hp of 9 per person is only putting somewhere between 9 and 27 hp depending on what is doing the hitting. How many they are and how spread out their targets are.
On top of this. Your average level 60 Character has around 55hp give or take. So If you still have an overflow of Damage that is a quarter to half of their hp and all of the party is taking this much a turn. The Party is standing a good chance of losing even if the Twilight Cleric does have all 5 people within their circle and gaining Temp Hp. But this is also making them more likely to be hit by AoE attacks from fireball as well for being grouped up. There is also the issue that temp hp are not being gained if it's being used to remove certain conditions, assuming the person is even within the range of it to have those conditions removed which reduces it's effectiveness as well.
The Temp HP is nice. But the characters are going to fall. And again. Each character that falls is not going to get it's temp HP for the turn. Reducing the amount of HP that is put into play anyway. And for those groups that are used to using healing for something besides quick Yoyo's after a persons hp has been deminished to the point that they are unconcious they are mostly dealing with These kinds of HP being put back in over potentially multiple turns anyway.
For Example the Shepard Druid is capable of putting just as much Hp into play each turn as the Twilight Druid. The switch up is that it's actual healing instead of Temp HP so it doesn't stack above and beyond. But at the same time. I does apply to those that get knocked unconscious as an alternative. So there are moments where they aren't doing as much and there are moments where they are managing more within their effective radius. A 6th level Shepard Druid with a simple healing word and it's spirit effect which lasts a similar time is going to put Roughly the same amount of healing potential as the Twilight Cleric's temp Hp. Thanks to the fact that it's doing 6hp to all of them in the same 30 meter radius that does not have to be perfectly centered on the druid and the average 6hp from a 1st level healing word.
While the resources are a bit different. The end results of what the Twilight Cleric is doing have already been in the game for a while. The Resource Costs are slightly in the favor of the Twilight Cleric since the key component for each of them recharges on a short rest. But the positioning advantage is on the part of the Shepard Druid.
Like I said. Just target and overwhelm the crap out of it with damage. Or use various things that will incapacitate. it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be. Most just haven't really figured out how to deal with it so it seems OP even though it's something that's already existed but they haven't bothered to use much or had DM's use against them when they could be.
The strategy to just target them to turn it off seems like it might get old pretty fast for the DM and the player is my point
If you spend most fights getting incapacitated or downed because of your abilities then it's likely not going to be very fun for you
A 6th level Twilight cleric with 4 friends get into a fight....
The twilight cleric throws up its CD to help and puts out 9.5 HP per person per round....this means that in 1 round they add 38 HP to the table.
that means if the fight lasts 3 rounds they have added 114 HP to the table...granted this is spread out but that is a LOT of THP.
A CR 6 creature per the DMG should put out about 39–44 damage per round. This reduced by just 9.5 every round (assuming only 1 person benefits from this CD) drops the offensive CR of the creature by 2 levels at least (CR4 = 27-32 damage).
Now is this insurmountable by the DM? No you just throw harder creatures at them.....but still that is a bit much in my book for a single ability that returns on a short rest that does not even require concentration.
My main issue with it is that it highly encourages you as a DM to focus fire that Twilight cleric nearly all the time....which doesn't seem fun for me as a DM or for the Cleric player.
To the point about lower levels...its actually affects higher level CRs more often if they are pure damage monsters. At level 10 you are seeing offensive CRs drop to CR7 which is a pretty big drop in numbers.
Now a good DM will know this and figure out a way around it no problem....but an inexperienced DM will struggle with this as they will need to push the encounters to a higher level than they might feel comfortable.
I would be fine with one in a campaign but I do think the ability is overbalanced.
This is misrepresentative. Really any enemy that is not hit on average will not be gaining new Temp HP from round to round.
So the huge numbers of Temp HP only apply to the first round. Every round following assuming that everybody in the party is not getting hit. Which realistically even with Temp HP they should not be doing. The Average temp Hp of 9 per person is only putting somewhere between 9 and 27 hp depending on what is doing the hitting. How many they are and how spread out their targets are.
On top of this. Your average level 60 Character has around 55hp give or take. So If you still have an overflow of Damage that is a quarter to half of their hp and all of the party is taking this much a turn. The Party is standing a good chance of losing even if the Twilight Cleric does have all 5 people within their circle and gaining Temp Hp. But this is also making them more likely to be hit by AoE attacks from fireball as well for being grouped up. There is also the issue that temp hp are not being gained if it's being used to remove certain conditions, assuming the person is even within the range of it to have those conditions removed which reduces it's effectiveness as well.
The Temp HP is nice. But the characters are going to fall. And again. Each character that falls is not going to get it's temp HP for the turn. Reducing the amount of HP that is put into play anyway. And for those groups that are used to using healing for something besides quick Yoyo's after a persons hp has been deminished to the point that they are unconcious they are mostly dealing with These kinds of HP being put back in over potentially multiple turns anyway.
For Example the Shepard Druid is capable of putting just as much Hp into play each turn as the Twilight Druid. The switch up is that it's actual healing instead of Temp HP so it doesn't stack above and beyond. But at the same time. I does apply to those that get knocked unconscious as an alternative. So there are moments where they aren't doing as much and there are moments where they are managing more within their effective radius. A 6th level Shepard Druid with a simple healing word and it's spirit effect which lasts a similar time is going to put Roughly the same amount of healing potential as the Twilight Cleric's temp Hp. Thanks to the fact that it's doing 6hp to all of them in the same 30 meter radius that does not have to be perfectly centered on the druid and the average 6hp from a 1st level healing word.
While the resources are a bit different. The end results of what the Twilight Cleric is doing have already been in the game for a while. The Resource Costs are slightly in the favor of the Twilight Cleric since the key component for each of them recharges on a short rest. But the positioning advantage is on the part of the Shepard Druid.
Like I said. Just target and overwhelm the crap out of it with damage. Or use various things that will incapacitate. it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be. Most just haven't really figured out how to deal with it so it seems OP even though it's something that's already existed but they haven't bothered to use much or had DM's use against them when they could be.
The strategy to just target them to turn it off seems like it might get old pretty fast for the DM and the player is my point
If you spend most fights getting incapacitated or downed because of your abilities then it's likely not going to be very fun for you
you don't just have to incap or down them. There are lots of ways to deal with the issue as I pointed out and your focusing on just one. Targetting individuals to some extent short circuits it just as well. And many players push this tactic as the ultimate thing to do and the power behind various different spells despite the easy dispatchability of the things those spells tend to create. It's easy for the DM to do this to the players too and use different tactics from battle to battle for different reasons. I named 3 different simple ways in just my two posts that can easily short circuit the percieved power of the ability that any DM can use. And even shown that the same kind of threat is nothing new if players wanted to use it. But those all can be expanded upon for lots of different tactics applicable to different kinds of fights and different creatures in those fights just like DM's are already doing.
Overwhelming a targets temp HP does not have to be done just on the Cleric. It can be done to just about anybody in the party. Your being very narrow to use this just as something to do to the druid. If your only targetting a couple people it doesn't matter whether they have 3 or 12 people within that effect. It's doing very little except for on those couple of people your primarily targetting. This makes all that potential for temp hp every turn drop through the floor. Partly because that theoretical math is badly done and it assumes optimal conditions for the powers usage. which in play isn't necessarily going to happen and it's something DM's can manage just fine. Things like Chill touch that make it hard to replace hp beyond the temp or draining effects that strengthen the enemies effective HP from your own are a couple of more advanced ways to add into the mix and might even lead to situations where the Party just feels like they are strengthening the enemy depending on how they are used. Possession is another advanced tactic that can just mess with everybody when it comes to the ability So the party is beating on themselves to try and solve the possession issue. Another way to do things is to use certain tactics expecting the Twilight Cleric to break it. Charm that barbarian. Sure it's going to break at the end of it's turn. But the devestation that barbarian is likely to cause to any member of the party before the end of their turn is going to be significant. Stun people to take them out of the fight. The ability has no answer to that. Doesn't even have to be the cleric. use various abilities to shove the Cleric around the battlefield to make it harder to manage the affect and keep it going on their party members. put them up against corporeal undead where the channel divinity might be better used at Repelling a bunch of them to manage numbers. There is literaly all kinds of things you can do.
That makes it more likely. But let's wait and see. There are more ways than just drake warden to do a dragon themed Ranger. One of them that comes to mind for me is to dump the drake and just give the ranger a few dragon inspired abilities. Which would honestly be my preference. And it doesn't give us any ideas how much they might have changed it if it is the drake warden.
We need to sell a new book. Everyone loves player options. Let’s make the beast master more of a tanky, damage focused, combat subclass!
That’s great! The game is mostly combat these days anyways.
While we’re at it let’s replace all of the Rangers expiration abilities with more combat focused ones.
Another great idea!
Of course if we’re going to do that we should help the monk out a little bit as well. Maybe give it even more attacks?
Also a great idea! Monks are really terrible.
You know, players really hate it when they lose combats. We should add something for clerics or druids that gives temporary hit points over and over and over again. That way combat encounters are even more lopsided in favor of the players.
That’s a great idea too. Players these days really don’t like challenging combats with a risk of losing their characters.
Oh! Here’s a good idea! How about if druids can use their short rest ability do use the find familiar spell? Everyone loves familiars!
That’s a super idea it’s thematic, but most importantly a lot of fun!
I have an even better idea! How about we add some spells that allow every spellcaster in the game to have control of an additional creature on the battlefield?! That way everybody has a friend, and druids, wizards, artificers, and Rangers can have two or more!
Perfect!
And even though no one complains about their combat abilities, now that we’ve boosted all the other classes we have to give a boost to rogues and paladins as well. How about if we add some thing that allows Rogues to use their sneak attack all the time, even when they have a solo mission?
Sounds good to me!
And how about if we give paladins the ability to regain spell slots on a short rest, guaranteeing they are constantly able to use their divine smite?
Also perfect! Players hate running out of resources and not be able to use all of their abilities for every combat.
Great. Let’s do it. But also, make sure each class now has a weaponized bonus action. Players hate not being able to use every single possible action every turn.
Easy. Done.
Well, it’s been a year and players seem to love the new options.
They sure do! But have you noticed how much longer combines are taking?
Yes I half. Everyone complained before about how much time combat took, whether it was players taking their turns or having too many creatures on the battlefield from conjure spells.
Yes. For some reason it just takes forever to get through even medium and counter Combat and dungeon Masters have to have a lot more enemies for each combat because four players are now controlling 10 different creatures for each combat.
We need to sell a new book. Everyone loves player options. Let’s make the beast master more of a tanky, damage focused, combat subclass!
That’s great! The game is mostly combat these days anyways.
While we’re at it let’s replace all of the Rangers expiration abilities with more combat focused ones.
Another great idea!
Of course if we’re going to do that we should help the monk out a little bit as well. Maybe give it even more attacks?
Also a great idea! Monks are really terrible.
You know, players really hate it when they lose combats. We should add something for clerics or druids that gives temporary hit points over and over and over again. That way combat encounters are even more lopsided in favor of the players.
That’s a great idea too. Players these days really don’t like challenging combats with a risk of losing their characters.
Oh! Here’s a good idea! How about if druids can use their short rest ability do use the find familiar spell? Everyone loves familiars!
That’s a super idea it’s thematic, but most importantly a lot of fun!
I have an even better idea! How about we add some spells that allow every spellcaster in the game to have control of an additional creature on the battlefield?! That way everybody has a friend, and druids, wizards, artificers, and Rangers can have two or more!
Perfect!
And even though no one complains about their combat abilities, now that we’ve boosted all the other classes we have to give a boost to rogues and paladins as well. How about if we add some thing that allows Rogues to use their sneak attack all the time, even when they have a solo mission?
Sounds good to me!
And how about if we give paladins the ability to regain spell slots on a short rest, guaranteeing they are constantly able to use their divine smite?
Also perfect! Players hate running out of resources and not be able to use all of their abilities for every combat.
Great. Let’s do it. But also, make sure each class now has a weaponized bonus action. Players hate not being able to use every single possible action every turn.
Easy. Done.
Well, it’s been a year and players seem to love the new options.
They sure do! But have you noticed how much longer combines are taking?
Yes I half. Everyone complained before about how much time combat took, whether it was players taking their turns or having too many creatures on the battlefield from conjure spells.
Yes. For some reason it just takes forever to get through even medium and counter Combat and dungeon Masters have to have a lot more enemies for each combat because four players are now controlling 10 different creatures for each combat.
I’m not opposed to change. The game will change and grow. All for the betterment of the hobby. 5.5/6E is coming...some day. I’m simply opposed to the denial of these increases in power of the game and the leaving core options in the dust because of it, adding to “problems” that already exist elsewhere, and putting a new dungeon master in a position to have a level of competency that will soon rival that of a 3.5 DM.
We need to sell a new book. Everyone loves player options. Let’s make the beast master more of a tanky, damage focused, combat subclass!
That’s great! The game is mostly combat these days anyways.
While we’re at it let’s replace all of the Rangers expiration abilities with more combat focused ones.
Another great idea!
Of course if we’re going to do that we should help the monk out a little bit as well. Maybe give it even more attacks?
Also a great idea! Monks are really terrible.
You know, players really hate it when they lose combats. We should add something for clerics or druids that gives temporary hit points over and over and over again. That way combat encounters are even more lopsided in favor of the players.
That’s a great idea too. Players these days really don’t like challenging combats with a risk of losing their characters.
Oh! Here’s a good idea! How about if druids can use their short rest ability do use the find familiar spell? Everyone loves familiars!
That’s a super idea it’s thematic, but most importantly a lot of fun!
I have an even better idea! How about we add some spells that allow every spellcaster in the game to have control of an additional creature on the battlefield?! That way everybody has a friend, and druids, wizards, artificers, and Rangers can have two or more!
Perfect!
And even though no one complains about their combat abilities, now that we’ve boosted all the other classes we have to give a boost to rogues and paladins as well. How about if we add some thing that allows Rogues to use their sneak attack all the time, even when they have a solo mission?
Sounds good to me!
And how about if we give paladins the ability to regain spell slots on a short rest, guaranteeing they are constantly able to use their divine smite?
Also perfect! Players hate running out of resources and not be able to use all of their abilities for every combat.
Great. Let’s do it. But also, make sure each class now has a weaponized bonus action. Players hate not being able to use every single possible action every turn.
Easy. Done.
Well, it’s been a year and players seem to love the new options.
They sure do! But have you noticed how much longer combines are taking?
Yes I half. Everyone complained before about how much time combat took, whether it was players taking their turns or having too many creatures on the battlefield from conjure spells.
Yes. For some reason it just takes forever to get through even medium and counter Combat and dungeon Masters have to have a lot more enemies for each combat because four players are now controlling 10 different creatures for each combat.
I’m not opposed to change. The game will change and grow. All for the betterment of the hobby. 5.5/6E is coming...some day. I’m simply opposed to the denial of these increases in power of the game and the leaving core options in the dust because of it, adding to “problems” that already exist elsewhere, and putting a new dungeon master in a position to have a level of competency that will soon rival that of a 3.5 DM.
Word....
The power creep is real for sure.
I'm just glad at this point I'm more experienced in the system. I would dread being a new DM with an this stuff.
I wonder how much of it would be changed from the UA? If so I know people have called it "just a better beastmaster" but I haven't played the class or really looked at it too much.
I don’t know.
It read like a Pokémon trainer, not any kind of beast master.
It was one of their earlier attempts at doing things based upon your proficiency bonus and through using extra spell slots we see in Primal companion but that's where the similarity kind of ends other than being a pet subclass.
your Dragon Companion is just a summoned animal without concentration. It only sticks around in an amount of time based upon your proficiency bonus so it is not potentially permanent like the beast masters pet. you summon it free for once and then you can just keep popping it out when it dies for a spell slot a piece after that.
On top of that has a damage immunity type picked each time you summon it. (acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison I believe) which it can use it's reaction when someone hits within 30 feet of it to add that damage type to their strike (doesn't have to be the ranger, doesn't even have to be a party member ironically) The damage from this and it's immunity type much match because they are based upon it's "draconic essence" so basically it's elemental type. It's own basic attack is melee but it does 1d6 plus it's elemental type in damage for the hit.
It starts out small and it's ac starts at 14+ your Proficiency bonus so it's armor is typically a little better on the Drake compared to the primal companion counterparts it most resembles but their HP will work out to the same when you ignore the fact that you can just resummon it. Mind you. This is all just level 3.
At level 7 the PC gets resistance based upon that same draconic essence thing that can be switched based upon summoning. The Drake gains either a swim (and water breathing) or fly speed at this level. AND the Damage of the beast for it's basic melee attack goes up by an additional 1d6 of elemental damage.
At 11th level the PC, not the Drake, gets a breath weapon that hits a 30' cone and does 6d6 damage of an elemental type for 6d6 damage (dex save for half) of one of the elemental types for the Draconic essence but this time it is completely independent of what the Drake's element is. The damage scales to 8d6 automatically from this feature at level 15, And this is repeatable every time after the first for a 3rd level or higher spell slot. This is completely independent of the Drake and the drake gets nothing. This power doesn't even require the drake to be summoned to use it.
At level 15. The Drake immediately goes from being Small to Being Large. No change to it's base stats for the change. But the physical and elemental damage go up by 1d6 at this level. (effectively being 2d6 over the base level 3 for the elemental damage from stacking with level 7). And whenever you and the Drake are within 30 feet. you can now use the PC's reaction to gain resistance to one instance of damage for either the pc or the drake. literally any kind of damage. Even worse than any kind of damage is the use of the wording Instance and not type of damage, Which means depending on how you interpret it. This could anything from one type of damage in a multi-type hit or it actually is instant resistance to many types of damage all accrued in a singular instance of damage which could lead to some saying you could try to do something like jump through a prismatic wall and gain resistance to all of the 8 or 10 kinds of damage it deals by using this ability. Most might be ok with it blocking the double damage types like an ice storm or the damage another drake wardens drake would do but i think you can see the potential abuse her.
So it's not just a better beast master. it is pretty OP thing that mostly dwarfs everything about the Beast Master in one way or another. It Feels almost like the only thing it's missing in a homebrew's attempt to power game is to have the Drake be able to multi attack long about level 11 where the drake itself doesn't get any abilities of it's own, and then claiming it's perfectly balanced when it starts single handedly chewing through combat encounters.
If it’s OP, it will get “nerfed” for the official release and people will hate it like favored foe. LOL!
Damned if they do...
Or it just comes out....like Twilight cleric.
😬
D&D 5.5, here we come!!!
Twilight Cleric isn't that OP. People just don't know how to deal with it because they'd been discounting healing and stuff for a long time now. The irony is that Twilight Cleric is overcome primarily by their favorite tactic. Lot of small things making many attacks to overwhelm things. The other way to deal with it is the vast number of ways to incapacitate people that many haven't learned about because all anybody ever espouses is more damage. Even though incapacitation shuts down a lot of things. Another Thing to note about the power is that it has a weakness of they have to end their turn within 30' of the Cleric for them to gain any benefits. But they have to take their actions first. Several kinds of things that inflict frightened actually make the target run away to the best of your ability. Several forms of charm can be used to make them move away from the Cleric. Thus the power doesn't work and even the hp doesn't work. Also even if they are removing frightened or charmed. That is a turn they aren't getting any kind of temp hp and temp hp doesn't stack. yes 2-10hp is like getting an extra level's worth of health on a low level character. But considering that many low level threats can concievably cut through low level party health in jus a turn or two. This jus lengthens the fight. Primarily because this is not actual healing. So any damage you do past the temp hp is still chipping their hp down so unless the Twilight Druid is doing a lot of healing to keep things topped up. It's very easy to shove characters into positions where yes they have temp hp but their actual hp is very low and thus they are still in threat of being knocked out or even dying without the buffer. Also since Temp HP is not healing. They do not get it when they are unconcious and it does not bring them back up on their feet. So when you knock them down they need actual healing. This is something that I've seen a few people misunderstand about Temp HP.
I mean, they did nerf it some, it had Darkvision with no range
Yeah I think Twilight Cleric is fine.
As for Drakewarden… I just don't like it in general. I also don't think it's better than the Beast Master, as you're trading flexibility and customisation for a complicated bit of extra damage; it's stronger at earlier levels thanks to having a bonus action attack command right away, but beyond that its damage is actually more minor than you might think at higher levels. Damage resistance and the dragon's breath ability are good, but I like Beast Master better both mechanically and thematically, in spite of its own problems. Being able to cast a spell on both yourself and your companion simultaneously is a great feature, and IMO better than the uncanny dodge the Drakewarden gets.
The main advantage the Drakewarden has is being able to re-summon the dragon with a spell slot, and that's probably the most OP part (should be higher than 1st level); but if you're playing a campaign with a DM who actually likes the idea of their Beast Master player having fun then they shouldn't be killing off the pet at every chance anyway. Beast Master is one of those sub-classes where a DM should be happy to make some allowances because the pet creature is usually fun for everyone when properly integrated.
I dunno, it has its strengths if all you care about from a pet creature is damage, but it's just so boring mechanically and it doesn't really capture the theme IMO. The Beast Master is riddled with issues, but mechanically it fits its theme really well, and is a lot of fun with a little DM support (equipment for the pet, tweaked stats so you can up-scale weaker creatures that better fit your character etc.). Personally I hope that Drakewarden is either not included, reduced down to just being a new special "dragon companion" profile for Beast Master (like the special companions in Tasha's) or redesigned heavily.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
A 6th level Twilight cleric with 4 friends get into a fight....
The twilight cleric throws up its CD to help and puts out 9.5 HP per person per round....this means that in 1 round they add 38 HP to the table.
that means if the fight lasts 3 rounds they have added 114 HP to the table...granted this is spread out but that is a LOT of THP.
A CR 6 creature per the DMG should put out about 39–44 damage per round. This reduced by just 9.5 every round (assuming only 1 person benefits from this CD) drops the offensive CR of the creature by 2 levels at least (CR4 = 27-32 damage).
Now is this insurmountable by the DM? No you just throw harder creatures at them.....but still that is a bit much in my book for a single ability that returns on a short rest that does not even require concentration.
My main issue with it is that it highly encourages you as a DM to focus fire that Twilight cleric nearly all the time....which doesn't seem fun for me as a DM or for the Cleric player.
To the point about lower levels...its actually affects higher level CRs more often if they are pure damage monsters. At level 10 you are seeing offensive CRs drop to CR7 which is a pretty big drop in numbers.
Now a good DM will know this and figure out a way around it no problem....but an inexperienced DM will struggle with this as they will need to push the encounters to a higher level than they might feel comfortable.
I would be fine with one in a campaign but I do think the ability is overbalanced.
This is misrepresentative. Really any enemy that is not hit on average will not be gaining new Temp HP from round to round.
So the huge numbers of Temp HP only apply to the first round. Every round following assuming that everybody in the party is not getting hit. Which realistically even with Temp HP they should not be doing. The Average temp Hp of 9 per person is only putting somewhere between 9 and 27 hp depending on what is doing the hitting. How many they are and how spread out their targets are.
On top of this. Your average level 60 Character has around 55hp give or take. So If you still have an overflow of Damage that is a quarter to half of their hp and all of the party is taking this much a turn. The Party is standing a good chance of losing even if the Twilight Cleric does have all 5 people within their circle and gaining Temp Hp. But this is also making them more likely to be hit by AoE attacks from fireball as well for being grouped up. There is also the issue that temp hp are not being gained if it's being used to remove certain conditions, assuming the person is even within the range of it to have those conditions removed which reduces it's effectiveness as well.
The Temp HP is nice. But the characters are going to fall. And again. Each character that falls is not going to get it's temp HP for the turn. Reducing the amount of HP that is put into play anyway. And for those groups that are used to using healing for something besides quick Yoyo's after a persons hp has been deminished to the point that they are unconcious they are mostly dealing with These kinds of HP being put back in over potentially multiple turns anyway.
For Example the Shepard Druid is capable of putting just as much Hp into play each turn as the Twilight Druid. The switch up is that it's actual healing instead of Temp HP so it doesn't stack above and beyond. But at the same time. I does apply to those that get knocked unconscious as an alternative. So there are moments where they aren't doing as much and there are moments where they are managing more within their effective radius. A 6th level Shepard Druid with a simple healing word and it's spirit effect which lasts a similar time is going to put Roughly the same amount of healing potential as the Twilight Cleric's temp Hp. Thanks to the fact that it's doing 6hp to all of them in the same 30 meter radius that does not have to be perfectly centered on the druid and the average 6hp from a 1st level healing word.
While the resources are a bit different. The end results of what the Twilight Cleric is doing have already been in the game for a while. The Resource Costs are slightly in the favor of the Twilight Cleric since the key component for each of them recharges on a short rest. But the positioning advantage is on the part of the Shepard Druid.
Like I said. Just target and overwhelm the crap out of it with damage. Or use various things that will incapacitate. it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be. Most just haven't really figured out how to deal with it so it seems OP even though it's something that's already existed but they haven't bothered to use much or had DM's use against them when they could be.
The strategy to just target them to turn it off seems like it might get old pretty fast for the DM and the player is my point
If you spend most fights getting incapacitated or downed because of your abilities then it's likely not going to be very fun for you
you don't just have to incap or down them. There are lots of ways to deal with the issue as I pointed out and your focusing on just one. Targetting individuals to some extent short circuits it just as well. And many players push this tactic as the ultimate thing to do and the power behind various different spells despite the easy dispatchability of the things those spells tend to create. It's easy for the DM to do this to the players too and use different tactics from battle to battle for different reasons. I named 3 different simple ways in just my two posts that can easily short circuit the percieved power of the ability that any DM can use. And even shown that the same kind of threat is nothing new if players wanted to use it. But those all can be expanded upon for lots of different tactics applicable to different kinds of fights and different creatures in those fights just like DM's are already doing.
Overwhelming a targets temp HP does not have to be done just on the Cleric. It can be done to just about anybody in the party. Your being very narrow to use this just as something to do to the druid. If your only targetting a couple people it doesn't matter whether they have 3 or 12 people within that effect. It's doing very little except for on those couple of people your primarily targetting. This makes all that potential for temp hp every turn drop through the floor. Partly because that theoretical math is badly done and it assumes optimal conditions for the powers usage. which in play isn't necessarily going to happen and it's something DM's can manage just fine. Things like Chill touch that make it hard to replace hp beyond the temp or draining effects that strengthen the enemies effective HP from your own are a couple of more advanced ways to add into the mix and might even lead to situations where the Party just feels like they are strengthening the enemy depending on how they are used. Possession is another advanced tactic that can just mess with everybody when it comes to the ability So the party is beating on themselves to try and solve the possession issue. Another way to do things is to use certain tactics expecting the Twilight Cleric to break it. Charm that barbarian. Sure it's going to break at the end of it's turn. But the devestation that barbarian is likely to cause to any member of the party before the end of their turn is going to be significant. Stun people to take them out of the fight. The ability has no answer to that. Doesn't even have to be the cleric. use various abilities to shove the Cleric around the battlefield to make it harder to manage the affect and keep it going on their party members. put them up against corporeal undead where the channel divinity might be better used at Repelling a bunch of them to manage numbers. There is literaly all kinds of things you can do.
Looks like Amazon has confirmed the Drakewarden Ranger.
https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-October-Title-Announced/dp/0786967293/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=fizban's treasury of dragons&qid=1626418130&sr=8-2
That makes it more likely. But let's wait and see. There are more ways than just drake warden to do a dragon themed Ranger. One of them that comes to mind for me is to dump the drake and just give the ranger a few dragon inspired abilities. Which would honestly be my preference. And it doesn't give us any ideas how much they might have changed it if it is the drake warden.
Meh. Regardless of what they do with it, we're officially getting a new Ranger subclass.
Though I highly doubt it'll fundamentally change that much from the UA version.
! WARNING !
Incoming rant...
We need to sell a new book. Everyone loves player options. Let’s make the beast master more of a tanky, damage focused, combat subclass!
That’s great! The game is mostly combat these days anyways.
While we’re at it let’s replace all of the Rangers expiration abilities with more combat focused ones.
Another great idea!
Of course if we’re going to do that we should help the monk out a little bit as well. Maybe give it even more attacks?
Also a great idea! Monks are really terrible.
You know, players really hate it when they lose combats. We should add something for clerics or druids that gives temporary hit points over and over and over again. That way combat encounters are even more lopsided in favor of the players.
That’s a great idea too. Players these days really don’t like challenging combats with a risk of losing their characters.
Oh! Here’s a good idea! How about if druids can use their short rest ability do use the find familiar spell? Everyone loves familiars!
That’s a super idea it’s thematic, but most importantly a lot of fun!
I have an even better idea! How about we add some spells that allow every spellcaster in the game to have control of an additional creature on the battlefield?! That way everybody has a friend, and druids, wizards, artificers, and Rangers can have two or more!
Perfect!
And even though no one complains about their combat abilities, now that we’ve boosted all the other classes we have to give a boost to rogues and paladins as well. How about if we add some thing that allows Rogues to use their sneak attack all the time, even when they have a solo mission?
Sounds good to me!
And how about if we give paladins the ability to regain spell slots on a short rest, guaranteeing they are constantly able to use their divine smite?
Also perfect! Players hate running out of resources and not be able to use all of their abilities for every combat.
Great. Let’s do it. But also, make sure each class now has a weaponized bonus action. Players hate not being able to use every single possible action every turn.
Easy. Done.
Well, it’s been a year and players seem to love the new options.
They sure do! But have you noticed how much longer combines are taking?
Yes I half. Everyone complained before about how much time combat took, whether it was players taking their turns or having too many creatures on the battlefield from conjure spells.
Yes. For some reason it just takes forever to get through even medium and counter Combat and dungeon Masters have to have a lot more enemies for each combat because four players are now controlling 10 different creatures for each combat.
I’m not opposed to change. The game will change and grow. All for the betterment of the hobby. 5.5/6E is coming...some day. I’m simply opposed to the denial of these increases in power of the game and the leaving core options in the dust because of it, adding to “problems” that already exist elsewhere, and putting a new dungeon master in a position to have a level of competency that will soon rival that of a 3.5 DM.
Word....
The power creep is real for sure.
I'm just glad at this point I'm more experienced in the system. I would dread being a new DM with an this stuff.
Drakewarden confirmed to be the new Ranger subclass in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons
We don't know what the final version is going to end up looking like, but I think it's pretty safe to assume the UA is being used as a base.