The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
Seconded. I was mostly saying that the sidekick rules are a bit over tuned for the most part and should be used judiciously. The beast master in Tasha's is actually a lot better due to the changes so I am less inclined to say they need the rules anyway....
PHB version however is generally pretty lackluster....with the majority of the discussion coming directly from people who have played the class or have DM'd for them.
The one player I had pick beast master lost the wolf on day 2 due to an unlucky crit and being underground in out of the abyss it was hard to justify them getting another wolf AND spending 8 hours bonding with it.....
Overall the subclass revamp was very much needed as were the class changes to ranger.
the sidekicks are overtuned? really? like they got seriously nerfed from their previous incarnations, and they are still considered full characters for the purposes of encounter difficulty, the only real problem i see is that many valid creatures like pixies, shadows, cloakers, and the NPC scout might risk outshadowing the player characters, especially duing early levels
also like who cares about that guy loosing his doggo, there are so many fun beastly friends your beastmaster can make in the underdark, from giant wolf spiders to one of those cave badgers exclusive to that module with tremorsense and borrowing speeds to the absurd and obscure like the deep rothé from volo's guide to monsters with ¤ magical flashing lights ¤ and stuff, upgrades people, upgrades
also what is that first guy saying that being a companion would increase its CR beyond the threshold for a sidekick, or vice versa, or is he saying that the beast companion has no value for challenge rating since it has been modified? Cus like you can have an sidekick that is medium and CR 1/4th, it is not magically treated as having a higher CR all of a sudden
They dont want a spider....they want a wolf and designed a story/everything around this beast....as one should when it's a core feature of your class.
That's like saying "Nah you don't want a Archfey patron you want Hexblade because its better and it fits my story...sorry bro you got a talking sword!"
I think that is a big place were WotC missed the mark with the beast master ranger subclass for most players. So many people want a permanent buddy, not a disposable, replaceable wild animal. I think the design intent could easily allow for an 8-hour ritual of regeneration on a beast companion that brings it back to life.
The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
You can, indeed. The Ranger's Companion feature adds bonuses which, on paper, would affect the challenge rating. But there's no direction to recalculate their challenge rating, and the feature is wholly uninterested in the challenge rating. And since sidekicks can be any creature with a challenge rating of 1/2 or lower, a medium beast of 1/4 or lower would qualify.
There's no shortage of Tweets from Jeremy Crawford on the idea that a sidekick is primarily meant to be additive. Anyone could have one, and a ranger could even take one on in addition to a beast companion. That said, the DM's word is final.
Let me bring up something else: if a beast companion technically qualifies as a sidekick and vice versa, the same is true for a familiar.
Well, familiars acquired via find familiar cannot fight. That's a big loss for any potential warrior. And they need a language to become an expert or spellcaster, which they probably don't have.
Actually...
The warlock's Improved Familiar, via Pact of the Chain, would make for a pretty baller sidekick. The pseudodragon could be a warrior and a sprite could be an expert or spellcaster.
also what is that first guy saying that being a companion would increase its CR beyond the threshold for a sidekick, or vice versa, or is he saying that the beast companion has no value for challenge rating since it has been modified? Cus like you can have an sidekick that is medium and CR 1/4th, it is not magically treated as having a higher CR all of a sudden
In order to qualify for becoming a sidekick, that creature has to have a stat block in a book. Beasts have a stat block in the MM, beast companions do not because becoming a companion changes their stats.
In order to qualify for becoming a beast companion, a beast can't have a CR higher than 1/4. A beast with three - the earliest level a beast companion can be acquired - levels as a sidekick has a CR higher than that.
also like who cares about that guy loosing his doggo, there are so many fun beastly friends your beastmaster can make in the underdark, from giant wolf spiders to one of those cave badgers exclusive to that module with tremorsense and borrowing speeds to the absurd and obscure like the deep rothé from volo's guide to monsters with ¤ magical flashing lights ¤ and stuff, upgrades people, upgrades
I know. The deep rothe. Good at low levels, a nice mount, and it has magic lights with a negative spellcasting ability. Wait
Absurd idea
1. Play Custom Lineage
2. Smol with Dual Wielder
3. Be a ranger on a magic subterrenean cow wielding two lances at once
or drow, according to dnd beyond communicating with magical lights is considered a language so you might be able to learn its language and communicate back via dancing lights
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would say you're correct, up to a point. All sidekicks have the capability to become powerful fast. A thug, 20th-level warrior, with plate armor and a maul is CR 10. A wolf companion, with all the perks from the ranger class, 20th-level warrior, in a breastplate with 20 Strength and 14 Constitution, would be about CR 10-11; depending on their chosen role. Likewise, a scout, 20th-level expert, would top out at CR 7. So would a regular (i.e. non-companion) wolf with the same stats and armor listed above.
The beast companion would only get three meaningful benefits over a normal companion:
One astronomically high saving throw, or two if they take the Resilient feat.
Their armor class could easily reach the mid-20s, but that was always possible before.
Their attack and damage rolls remain competitive without a lot of investment in their ability scores.
Even a giant poisonous snake with studded leather, 20 Dexterity, and 20 Constitution would top out at CR 12. I don't think it would break the game to allow it; especially given the power creep found all throughout that book. And it would make them as strong as some pretty beefy threats, but by 20th-level we shouldn't care, either.
That said, I do think it's worth going back and seeing how these companion-sidekicks might stack up in a typical 10-15 hardcover adventure.
i'd argue that the exact value of the companion's challenge rating does not matter as much as it matters how powerful it is in comparison to other party members, my concern being that at 6th level, 10th level and every level between those two points the companion has the same number of attacks as any other martial character of the same level whilst having much higher attack bonuses and damage bonuses, thus leading to their total damage output being much higher and thus something that would betray its role as an sidekick and subclass feature quite a lot, like yes your own ranger has to forgo one attack to make the pet attack so their own damage output is pretty much halved, so maybe the sum total of slightly OP animal and slightly underperforming ranger is the sum of 2 normal player characters, i do not know but it just does not seem reasonable, i actiually have not spend enough time actiually playing the game normally in long-running campaigns, maybe with the kinds of magic items you use arround tier 2 the pet output is perfectly reasonable for an fighter or barbarian at this point, i really do not know.
And this is not even mentioning how the pet could also be outperforming the non-combat focused party members, panthers and their (in my opinion) superior counterparts the giant wolf spider both add double their proficiency bonus to stealth checks (as per the rules mentioned in the monster manual). Becuase of them now being able to increase their dexterity score and their proficiency bonus on top of your own proficiency bonus also being added to all checks in which it is proficient your pet will be stealthier than the rogue in the party, whilst also having the equivalent of expertise in every skill it is normally merely proficient in, like it seems like all of this together makes for something that in many areas is far beyond what any other party member is capable of and something that might steal a lot of the spotlight
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Adding a sidekick would functionally allow the dm to change the cr calculation for difficulty. But a companion is considered part of the rangers portion of the calculation.
As for the comments on giving rangers companions proficiency. The dmg covers that. Several adventures have customized creatures according to the rules.Wolves of strahrules. As an example. A dm might send a rat proficient in slight of hand that steals food or shinies from the party. The ranger then catches it and trains it making a companion. Even hp ranges for stat blocks assume variation out in the world.
As for mephistas story, there was a lot going on but he had a highly tailored build idea that used a difficult style of fighting and a locked in pet and the pet benefits didn't quite match what he wanted. And he continued to play past the point of satisfaction. Barbarians are good classes but I would probably not be satisfied playing it. So I don't.
The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
Seconded. I was mostly saying that the sidekick rules are a bit over tuned for the most part and should be used judiciously. The beast master in Tasha's is actually a lot better due to the changes so I am less inclined to say they need the rules anyway....
PHB version however is generally pretty lackluster....with the majority of the discussion coming directly from people who have played the class or have DM'd for them.
The one player I had pick beast master lost the wolf on day 2 due to an unlucky crit and being underground in out of the abyss it was hard to justify them getting another wolf AND spending 8 hours bonding with it.....
Overall the subclass revamp was very much needed as were the class changes to ranger.
the sidekicks are overtuned? really? like they got seriously nerfed from their previous incarnations, and they are still considered full characters for the purposes of encounter difficulty, the only real problem i see is that many valid creatures like pixies, shadows, cloakers, and the NPC scout might risk outshadowing the player characters, especially duing early levels
also like who cares about that guy loosing his doggo, there are so many fun beastly friends your beastmaster can make in the underdark, from giant wolf spiders to one of those cave badgers exclusive to that module with tremorsense and borrowing speeds to the absurd and obscure like the deep rothé from volo's guide to monsters with ¤ magical flashing lights ¤ and stuff, upgrades people, upgrades
also what is that first guy saying that being a companion would increase its CR beyond the threshold for a sidekick, or vice versa, or is he saying that the beast companion has no value for challenge rating since it has been modified? Cus like you can have an sidekick that is medium and CR 1/4th, it is not magically treated as having a higher CR all of a sudden
They dont want a spider....they want a wolf and designed a story/everything around this beast....as one should when it's a core feature of your class.
That's like saying "Nah you don't want a Archfey patron you want Hexblade because its better and it fits my story...sorry bro you got a talking sword!"
I think that is a big place were WotC missed the mark with the beast master ranger subclass for most players. So many people want a permanent buddy, not a disposable, replaceable wild animal. I think the design intent could easily allow for an 8-hour ritual of regeneration on a beast companion that brings it back to life.
Of course, if you want a ranger that instead sees the animals as disposable and treats animals like servants (likely evil), that would fit a beast master too.
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All hail the great and mighty platypus.
Resisting is simply standing in front of the tide and pushing at it. Even if you endure at first, you will eventually break down. Adapting, by contrast, is turning into a fish.
-me
Rangers are not underpowered. They’re just exploration-oriented.
Party members don't have a CR, and neither do their companions. CRs are for monsters and enemy NPCs and the like. Beast companions don't factor into the calculation of encounter difficulties, that's true, but that's not the same thing.
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The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
You can, indeed. The Ranger's Companion feature adds bonuses which, on paper, would affect the challenge rating. But there's no direction to recalculate their challenge rating, and the feature is wholly uninterested in the challenge rating. And since sidekicks can be any creature with a challenge rating of 1/2 or lower, a medium beast of 1/4 or lower would qualify.
There's no shortage of Tweets from Jeremy Crawford on the idea that a sidekick is primarily meant to be additive. Anyone could have one, and a ranger could even take one on in addition to a beast companion. That said, the DM's word is final.
The dmg has rules for recalculated cr. Used for adding hp or skills or damage or saving throws or pollymorph.
I would post it but I'm on a phone in the woods with poor signal du to holiday.
The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
You can, indeed. The Ranger's Companion feature adds bonuses which, on paper, would affect the challenge rating. But there's no direction to recalculate their challenge rating, and the feature is wholly uninterested in the challenge rating. And since sidekicks can be any creature with a challenge rating of 1/2 or lower, a medium beast of 1/4 or lower would qualify.
There's no shortage of Tweets from Jeremy Crawford on the idea that a sidekick is primarily meant to be additive. Anyone could have one, and a ranger could even take one on in addition to a beast companion. That said, the DM's word is final.
The dmg has rules for recalculated cr. Used for adding hp or skills or damage or saving throws or pollymorph.
I would post it but I'm on a phone in the woods with poor signal du to holiday.
I'm well-aquainted with those rules. I'm saying the class feature doesn't care. And I pointed to Crawford's own words saying it's okay.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party. Sidekicks shouldn't have anything to do with rangers because of this. Sidekicks may fulfill a fantasy that 5e does not provide. I.E mephistas ranger story.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party.
I don't see how Polymorph would even be a factor. It's limited both by the caster's level and the level or CR of the target. Even if the beast companion were to be polymorphed, it wouldn't be any stronger. By RAW, the Ranger's Companion bonuses only apply to the original CR 1/4 creature. It seems like a waste of a spell slot, to be honest.
And bought pets are early outpaced by even a 3rd-level beast companion. A wolf, thanks to the bonuses, has an equivalent CR of 1; if you go through the effort to recalculate it. That's better than a warhorse.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party. Sidekicks shouldn't have anything to do with rangers because of this. Sidekicks may fulfill a fantasy that 5e does not provide. I.E mephistas ranger story.
How is that a “common” complaint? I have to agree with Jounichi1983 that polymorph doesn’t factor at all.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party.
I don't see how Polymorph would even be a factor. It's limited both by the caster's level and the level or CR of the target. Even if the beast companion were to be polymorphed, it wouldn't be any stronger. By RAW, the Ranger's Companion bonuses only apply to the original CR 1/4 creature. It seems like a waste of a spell slot, to be honest.
And bought pets are early outpaced by even a 3rd-level beast companion. A wolf, thanks to the bonuses, has an equivalent CR of 1; if you go through the effort to recalculate it. That's better than a warhorse.
What raw are you referring to? The companion is still a companion. The ranger bonus could be on top of the stat block just like a paladin saving bonus. A sprite with the bonus would be huge. Other creatures as well. :edit i forgot about the last section of true pollymoph. But since it can't be affected by the rangers modification it couldn't be affected by its restrictions either.
Or
recalculated Cr an 80 hp pet with 3 attacks allows alot more options thats a big difference. I would figure out some cr comparisons but I don't have dmg (edit: on dnd beyond). Possibly allowing something like a giant ape.
This is important because A ranger might get a wand of pollymoph or a wizard might help not wanting to risk themselves. It happens occasionally. Sometimes pollymoph is used instead of healing to save a life.
I agree bought pets don't compare but I've seen people make that argument alot.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party.
I don't see how Polymorph would even be a factor. It's limited both by the caster's level and the level or CR of the target. Even if the beast companion were to be polymorphed, it wouldn't be any stronger. By RAW, the Ranger's Companion bonuses only apply to the original CR 1/4 creature. It seems like a waste of a spell slot, to be honest.
And bought pets are early outpaced by even a 3rd-level beast companion. A wolf, thanks to the bonuses, has an equivalent CR of 1; if you go through the effort to recalculate it. That's better than a warhorse.
What raw are you referring to? The companion is still a companion. The ranger bonus could be on top of the stat block just like a paladin saving bonus. A sprite with the bonus would be huge. Other creatures as well.
Or
recalculated Cr an 80 hp pet with 3 attacks allows alot more options thats a big difference. I would figure out some cr comparisons but I don't have dmg. Possibly allowing something like a giant ape.
This is important because A ranger might get a wand of pollymoph or a wizard might help not wanting to risk themselves. It happens occasionally.
I agree bought pets don't compare but I've seen people make that argument alot.
No beast companion can polymorph into a giant ape. Assuming you bother to recalculate their CR for such a change, the best any of them can do, factoring in barding to raise their AC, is CR 6. And that's at levels 17 and above. Most of them wouldn't be able to turn into anything more useful than a giant crocodile.
The second, if you're using Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, is to allow the companion to take levels as a warrior sidekick. They technically meet the requirements, ...
Do they really? I mean, you find the beast's stat block in the MM, but the beast companion has different stats. The Beastmaster rules also specify the beast you can choose can't have a CR higher than 1/4. Am I really the only one who thinks that's pushing the "technicalities" a bit far?
You can, indeed. The Ranger's Companion feature adds bonuses which, on paper, would affect the challenge rating. But there's no direction to recalculate their challenge rating, and the feature is wholly uninterested in the challenge rating. And since sidekicks can be any creature with a challenge rating of 1/2 or lower, a medium beast of 1/4 or lower would qualify.
There's no shortage of Tweets from Jeremy Crawford on the idea that a sidekick is primarily meant to be additive. Anyone could have one, and a ranger could even take one on in addition to a beast companion. That said, the DM's word is final.
The dmg has rules for recalculated cr. Used for adding hp or skills or damage or saving throws or pollymorph.
I would post it but I'm on a phone in the woods with poor signal du to holiday.
I'm well-aquainted with those rules. I'm saying the class feature doesn't care. And I pointed to Crawford's own words saying it's okay.
I honestly don't get the controversy here.
DMs can allow anything and everything. That isn’t much of an argument. Saying a DM “might allow” something is more of an indication that the RAW don’t than anything else.
How does the class feature not care? It literally says to choose a beast with a CR of 1/4 or lower. I don’t see what you are trying to say here.
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will point out to this discussion that according to those rules that we all read i assume, increasing a creatures attack bonus by 2 should always increase its offensive CR by one step, same with increasing its AC by 2 and its defensive CR. Thus it is reasonable to assume that an ranger's companion will be at the very least a CR 1/2 creature at 3rd level if they started out as a CR 1/4th creature, not accounting for lost multiattack and extra damage dealt by attacks,
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I’m interpreting the point as, the action economy of the beast is intertwined with the ranger now, not separate. The CR 1/4 beast is absorbed by the PC in a way. It’s part of what people hate about the subclass, how it doesn’t “add to the class”. That being said, whether crunching the CR math (defensive and offensive) or just using a third or half the total level of the ranger, how fun would it be to turn Cringer into Battlecat?!?!
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I think that is a big place were WotC missed the mark with the beast master ranger subclass for most players. So many people want a permanent buddy, not a disposable, replaceable wild animal. I think the design intent could easily allow for an 8-hour ritual of regeneration on a beast companion that brings it back to life.
You can, indeed. The Ranger's Companion feature adds bonuses which, on paper, would affect the challenge rating. But there's no direction to recalculate their challenge rating, and the feature is wholly uninterested in the challenge rating. And since sidekicks can be any creature with a challenge rating of 1/2 or lower, a medium beast of 1/4 or lower would qualify.
There's no shortage of Tweets from Jeremy Crawford on the idea that a sidekick is primarily meant to be additive. Anyone could have one, and a ranger could even take one on in addition to a beast companion. That said, the DM's word is final.
Well, familiars acquired via find familiar cannot fight. That's a big loss for any potential warrior. And they need a language to become an expert or spellcaster, which they probably don't have.
Actually...
The warlock's Improved Familiar, via Pact of the Chain, would make for a pretty baller sidekick. The pseudodragon could be a warrior and a sprite could be an expert or spellcaster.
In order to qualify for becoming a sidekick, that creature has to have a stat block in a book. Beasts have a stat block in the MM, beast companions do not because becoming a companion changes their stats.
In order to qualify for becoming a beast companion, a beast can't have a CR higher than 1/4. A beast with three - the earliest level a beast companion can be acquired - levels as a sidekick has a CR higher than that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
or drow, according to dnd beyond communicating with magical lights is considered a language so you might be able to learn its language and communicate back via dancing lights
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
i'd argue that the exact value of the companion's challenge rating does not matter as much as it matters how powerful it is in comparison to other party members, my concern being that at 6th level, 10th level and every level between those two points the companion has the same number of attacks as any other martial character of the same level whilst having much higher attack bonuses and damage bonuses, thus leading to their total damage output being much higher and thus something that would betray its role as an sidekick and subclass feature quite a lot, like yes your own ranger has to forgo one attack to make the pet attack so their own damage output is pretty much halved, so maybe the sum total of slightly OP animal and slightly underperforming ranger is the sum of 2 normal player characters, i do not know but it just does not seem reasonable, i actiually have not spend enough time actiually playing the game normally in long-running campaigns, maybe with the kinds of magic items you use arround tier 2 the pet output is perfectly reasonable for an fighter or barbarian at this point, i really do not know.
And this is not even mentioning how the pet could also be outperforming the non-combat focused party members, panthers and their (in my opinion) superior counterparts the giant wolf spider both add double their proficiency bonus to stealth checks (as per the rules mentioned in the monster manual). Becuase of them now being able to increase their dexterity score and their proficiency bonus on top of your own proficiency bonus also being added to all checks in which it is proficient your pet will be stealthier than the rogue in the party, whilst also having the equivalent of expertise in every skill it is normally merely proficient in, like it seems like all of this together makes for something that in many areas is far beyond what any other party member is capable of and something that might steal a lot of the spotlight
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Adding a sidekick would functionally allow the dm to change the cr calculation for difficulty. But a companion is considered part of the rangers portion of the calculation.
As for the comments on giving rangers companions proficiency. The dmg covers that. Several adventures have customized creatures according to the rules.Wolves of strahrules. As an example. A dm might send a rat proficient in slight of hand that steals food or shinies from the party. The ranger then catches it and trains it making a companion. Even hp ranges for stat blocks assume variation out in the world.
As for mephistas story, there was a lot going on but he had a highly tailored build idea that used a difficult style of fighting and a locked in pet and the pet benefits didn't quite match what he wanted. And he continued to play past the point of satisfaction. Barbarians are good classes but I would probably not be satisfied playing it. So I don't.
YES! 100%!
Of course, if you want a ranger that instead sees the animals as disposable and treats animals like servants (likely evil), that would fit a beast master too.
All hail the great and mighty platypus.
Resisting is simply standing in front of the tide and pushing at it. Even if you endure at first, you will eventually break down. Adapting, by contrast, is turning into a fish.
-me
Rangers are not underpowered. They’re just exploration-oriented.
My homebrew setting: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/94809-wakai-a-setting-inspired-by-japanese-folklore-and
This account is kinda old and I haven’t used it in a while
Party members don't have a CR, and neither do their companions. CRs are for monsters and enemy NPCs and the like. Beast companions don't factor into the calculation of encounter difficulties, that's true, but that's not the same thing.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The dmg has rules for recalculated cr. Used for adding hp or skills or damage or saving throws or pollymorph.
I would post it but I'm on a phone in the woods with poor signal du to holiday.
I'm well-aquainted with those rules. I'm saying the class feature doesn't care. And I pointed to Crawford's own words saying it's okay.
I honestly don't get the controversy here.
One of the common complaints- questions for beast masters is how it interacts with pollymoph. Either the challenge rating must be recalculated or the pollymoph would be restricted to 1/4 but then the bonus would be added to the pollymoph form.
Another early complaint was a bought pet has better action economy. But an additional npc or sidekick should be a counted for when designing encounters allowing the dm to throw more at the party. Sidekicks shouldn't have anything to do with rangers because of this. Sidekicks may fulfill a fantasy that 5e does not provide. I.E mephistas ranger story.
I don't see how Polymorph would even be a factor. It's limited both by the caster's level and the level or CR of the target. Even if the beast companion were to be polymorphed, it wouldn't be any stronger. By RAW, the Ranger's Companion bonuses only apply to the original CR 1/4 creature. It seems like a waste of a spell slot, to be honest.
And bought pets are early outpaced by even a 3rd-level beast companion. A wolf, thanks to the bonuses, has an equivalent CR of 1; if you go through the effort to recalculate it. That's better than a warhorse.
How is that a “common” complaint? I have to agree with Jounichi1983 that polymorph doesn’t factor at all.
What raw are you referring to? The companion is still a companion. The ranger bonus could be on top of the stat block just like a paladin saving bonus. A sprite with the bonus would be huge. Other creatures as well. :edit i forgot about the last section of true pollymoph. But since it can't be affected by the rangers modification it couldn't be affected by its restrictions either.
Or
recalculated Cr an 80 hp pet with 3 attacks allows alot more options thats a big difference. I would figure out some cr comparisons but I don't have dmg (edit: on dnd beyond). Possibly allowing something like a giant ape.
This is important because A ranger might get a wand of pollymoph or a wizard might help not wanting to risk themselves. It happens occasionally. Sometimes pollymoph is used instead of healing to save a life.
I agree bought pets don't compare but I've seen people make that argument alot.
No beast companion can polymorph into a giant ape. Assuming you bother to recalculate their CR for such a change, the best any of them can do, factoring in barding to raise their AC, is CR 6. And that's at levels 17 and above. Most of them wouldn't be able to turn into anything more useful than a giant crocodile.
DMs can allow anything and everything. That isn’t much of an argument. Saying a DM “might allow” something is more of an indication that the RAW don’t than anything else.
How does the class feature not care? It literally says to choose a beast with a CR of 1/4 or lower. I don’t see what you are trying to say here.
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will point out to this discussion that according to those rules that we all read i assume, increasing a creatures attack bonus by 2 should always increase its offensive CR by one step, same with increasing its AC by 2 and its defensive CR. Thus it is reasonable to assume that an ranger's companion will be at the very least a CR 1/2 creature at 3rd level if they started out as a CR 1/4th creature, not accounting for lost multiattack and extra damage dealt by attacks,
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I’m interpreting the point as, the action economy of the beast is intertwined with the ranger now, not separate. The CR 1/4 beast is absorbed by the PC in a way. It’s part of what people hate about the subclass, how it doesn’t “add to the class”. That being said, whether crunching the CR math (defensive and offensive) or just using a third or half the total level of the ranger, how fun would it be to turn Cringer into Battlecat?!?!