when people complain about Being in your favored terrain.
they ignore tiers of play
Levels 1-4 Local heroes- 1 biome is expected
Levels 5-10 Masters of the realm. a realm will mostly be 2-5 biomes. meaning a ranger will still have terrain advantage 50-30% of the time.
the percent only gets better as levels go up and I haven't even tried to included out of terrain creative uses or favored enemies.
because favored enemies are a different category you can have one, or both the amount of times you can functionally use FT or FE goes up significantly.
You only get your second biome at 6th level so you are facing 3 more biomes you are less than many. By the time you hit 10th chances are you are winding down/done with the campaign.
So you spend most of your time only valuable 2/5 of the time while the rest of the classes are 5/5.
I'm sorry you are wrong or lying when you say "the rest of the classes are 5/5."
do paladins and clerics only fight undead? do bards ever use counter charm? Do wizards have every spell land an effect?
Come back when you want to talk 5e not whatever game your playing.
It's 5/5 because Enhance Ability gives you ADV on the checks regardless of biome.
So yes it's application is literally anywhere where the ranger is limited.
Requires concentration and only lasts for an hour. Worthless during overland travel snd wilderness exploration. Just as the guidance cantrip is.
You really need to get on board with reality here.
What the core ranger abilities are and what they do is not what you think. How all of the skills used in this conversation are used are not how you think. How travel and wilderness exploration works is not how you think.
As described to me it was....
Basically it's survival checks, physical challenges, extreme heat/cold. That's why I asked how people actually ran it
The examples I got showed how easily the other classes could not only do the same things but everywhere not just 1 biome.
He did, however, by using Enhance Ability. So if the caster burns 2 2nd level slots (one for Wis and one for Int) then anyone can have advantage in any area. Expensive, iMO, but true.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
when people complain about Being in your favored terrain.
they ignore tiers of play
Levels 1-4 Local heroes- 1 biome is expected
Levels 5-10 Masters of the realm. a realm will mostly be 2-5 biomes. meaning a ranger will still have terrain advantage 50-30% of the time.
the percent only gets better as levels go up and I haven't even tried to included out of terrain creative uses or favored enemies.
because favored enemies are a different category you can have one, or both the amount of times you can functionally use FT or FE goes up significantly.
You only get your second biome at 6th level so you are facing 3 more biomes you are less than many. By the time you hit 10th chances are you are winding down/done with the campaign.
So you spend most of your time only valuable 2/5 of the time while the rest of the classes are 5/5.
I'm sorry you are wrong or lying when you say "the rest of the classes are 5/5."
do paladins and clerics only fight undead? do bards ever use counter charm? Do wizards have every spell land an effect?
Come back when you want to talk 5e not whatever game your playing.
It's 5/5 because Enhance Ability gives you ADV on the checks regardless of biome.
So yes it's application is literally anywhere where the ranger is limited.
Requires concentration and only lasts for an hour. Worthless during overland travel snd wilderness exploration. Just as the guidance cantrip is.
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
He did, however, by using Enhance Ability. So if the caster burns 2 2nd level slots (one for Wis and one for Int) then anyone can have advantage in any area. Expensive, iMO, but true.
For an hour. Plus concentration is needed. So we are talking about using a level 4+ spell slot every hour. If a party would rather do that than have a ranger, more power to them.
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
So I'm assuming your making the ranger roll several times?
If so then you are doing a disservice to your players:
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
So I'm assuming your making the ranger roll several times?
If so then you are doing a disservice to your players:
It's going to drastically increase the risk of failure.
If you do enhance ability why would you lose the information you gained when the spell ended?
Overall your approach appears to be trying hard to make the ranger relevant target rather than add enjoyment.
That is not the topic nor did any one but you bring that up. you are switching topics to avoid being wrong. In fact you still have not addressed advantage from any source and favored terrain stack.
Might also be that the group is actually exploring a new area and wants to check every couple hours to ensure they are on the right track. Also I don't think the EA spell helps them travel in the area, so that bit is missing. Essentially Rangers do what they are supposed to do, as a class. Nit picking single, individual things and saying class X can to that too with a spell, or item, or feat, is a truly weak argument. Primarily because then next item on the Rangers list, you get to point out that Class Y can do that with BLAH. So you are now using 2 classes, spells or feats, to accomplish what the one would do.
I think the core is, Rangers are underpowered in your mind and thus, you won't use them and likely discourage others who want to. That's fine (more or less) but it's not factual, so the debate here is little more than opinions back and forth, with each able to cite situations and circumstances to support their opinion. Rangers are as good as any other class when played properly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Might also be that the group is actually exploring a new area and wants to check every couple hours to ensure they are on the right track. Also I don't think the EA spell helps them travel in the area, so that bit is missing. Essentially Rangers do what they are supposed to do, as a class. Nit picking single, individual things and saying class X can to that too with a spell, or item, or feat, is a truly weak argument. Primarily because then next item on the Rangers list, you get to point out that Class Y can do that with BLAH. So you are now using 2 classes, spells or feats, to accomplish what the one would do.
I think the core is, Rangers are underpowered in your mind and thus, you won't use them and likely discourage others who want to. That's fine (more or less) but it's not factual, so the debate here is little more than opinions back and forth, with each able to cite situations and circumstances to support their opinion. Rangers are as good as any other class when played properly.
It's not factual either way.... It's based on opinions and play style so nobody is "Right"
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
So I'm assuming your making the ranger roll several times?
If so then you are doing a disservice to your players:
It's going to drastically increase the risk of failure.
If you do enhance ability why would you lose the information you gained when the spell ended?
Overall your approach appears to be trying hard to make the ranger relevant target rather than add enjoyment.
That is how the game is played. A rogue doesn’t get to make one perception check for the entire dungeon.
Please don’t try to turn this around to me. You are on defense here, not me.
Traveling through the uncharted mountains and valleys over days does not boil down to a single ability check. You are doing a disservice to an entire pillar of the game by approaching it on kindergarten mode.
The enhance ability spell gives advantage on...one...type of ability check during am hour. Before and after that hour it’s that creature’s normal roll.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
That's what I tried to do actually and I do have a suggestion a couple pages back!
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
So I'm assuming your making the ranger roll several times?
If so then you are doing a disservice to your players:
It's going to drastically increase the risk of failure.
If you do enhance ability why would you lose the information you gained when the spell ended?
Overall your approach appears to be trying hard to make the ranger relevant target rather than add enjoyment.
That is how the game is played. A rogue doesn’t get to make one perception check for the entire dungeon.
Please don’t try to turn this around to me. You are on defense here, not me.
Traveling through the uncharted mountains and valleys over days does not boil down to a single ability check. You are doing a disservice to an entire pillar of the game by approaching it on kindergarten mode.
The enhance ability spell gives advantage on...one...type of ability check during am hour. Before and after that hour it’s that creature’s normal roll.
There is no "defense" or whatever.... It's just a forum about a ttrpg game in which we have a difference in opinion.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
Name what classes can "While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area."
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
I don't recall this but either or it makes little difference overall.
Expertise from recalling information:
"When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in."
So you still need to be prof in the skill to infer the benefit which may not apply where as the Enhance Ability gives you advantage to all regardless of prof or what terrain you are trying to recall information on.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
I don't recall this but either or it makes little difference overall.
Expertise from recalling information:
"When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in."
So you still need to be prof in the skill to infer the benefit which may not apply where as the Enhance Ability gives you advantage to all regardless of prof or what terrain you are trying to recall information on.
Based on this it's still very underwhelming IMO.
you did not answer the question how is using a spell slot to "enhance ability" better than a ranger with expertise and still allowed to get advantage from another source using no consumable abilities.
not only that you justify your mis-information as "Makes little difference"
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
I don't recall this but either or it makes little difference overall.
Expertise from recalling information:
"When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in."
So you still need to be prof in the skill to infer the benefit which may not apply where as the Enhance Ability gives you advantage to all regardless of prof or what terrain you are trying to recall information on.
Based on this it's still very underwhelming IMO.
you did not answer the question how is using a spell slot to "enhance ability" better than a ranger with expertise and still allowed to get advantage from another source.
not only that you justify your mis-information as "Makes little difference"
It does in my opinion as it's information recall.
You could just cast the spell, remember the information and then still have plenty of time to use the spell to do what you want.
Perception is based on wisdom so maybe you scout a bit or roll a survival check to start tracking.
You get value out the slot so it's worth it IMO.
Especially since this could be a terrain that the ranger has no clue about... Which is likely if you only know one biome.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
I partially agree. someone in this thread has been actively spreading mis-information and has chased away most of the good discussion. At some point each individual needs to look at what post break rules such as Repeat posts, harassments, deliberate mis-information, trolling, and intentional debate necromancy. the report button is there for a reason.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
I don't recall this but either or it makes little difference overall.
Expertise from recalling information:
"When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in."
So you still need to be prof in the skill to infer the benefit which may not apply where as the Enhance Ability gives you advantage to all regardless of prof or what terrain you are trying to recall information on.
Based on this it's still very underwhelming IMO.
you did not answer the question how is using a spell slot to "enhance ability" better than a ranger with expertise and still allowed to get advantage from another source.
not only that you justify your mis-information as "Makes little difference"
It does in my opinion as it's information recall.
You could just cast the spell, remember the information and then still have plenty of time to use the spell to do what you want.
Perception is based on wisdom so maybe you scout a bit or roll a survival check to start tracking.
You get value out the slot so it's worth it IMO.
Especially since this could be a terrain that the ranger has no clue about... Which is likely if you only know one biome.
getting value is not the same as better. you have still attempted to avoid the question.
also because you mentioned recalling. granting advantage has a maximum potential. Mathematically and practically. magmatically it still means you cant go over a certain value. expertise does however. there are also impossible checks because having enhanced recall(advantage ) will never give you the information you don't already know. the only way in game to show that you mechanically know something is favored terrain or favored enemy.
many dms will ask "how do you know this?" before allowing a roll. Matt Colville for one. Enhance ability will never solve that question.
Requires concentration and only lasts for an hour. Worthless during overland travel snd wilderness exploration. Just as the guidance cantrip is.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/enhance-ability
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/guidance
In fact, you could use it to do what a rogue in a dungeon would do, like find traps and secret doors, but never on long journey or exploration treks.
As described to me it was....
Basically it's survival checks, physical challenges, extreme heat/cold. That's why I asked how people actually ran it
The examples I got showed how easily the other classes could not only do the same things but everywhere not just 1 biome.
If you have more examples please share
He did, however, by using Enhance Ability. So if the caster burns 2 2nd level slots (one for Wis and one for Int) then anyone can have advantage in any area. Expensive, iMO, but true.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
You are saying literally every hour of every trip is dangerous and requires checks? I don't think so....
If you are filling a role during exploration or travel then you are filling that role throughout. You don’t get to guide the party in a direction once, and then go about your merry way the rest of the day. That is an 8 hour job.
I would see using it to forage for food and water, but don’t the same classes have a spell for that too?
You can’t use s spell like enhance ability for anything that takes place over an hour. Most activities during travel snd exploration do take longer than an hour. 8+ hours to be precise. That’s a lot of spell slots to fill the ranger role.
For an hour. Plus concentration is needed. So we are talking about using a level 4+ spell slot every hour. If a party would rather do that than have a ranger, more power to them.
So I'm assuming your making the ranger roll several times?
If so then you are doing a disservice to your players:
https://dmdavid.com/tag/how-to-avoid-boring-rerolls-of-dds-ability-checks/
It's going to drastically increase the risk of failure.
If you do enhance ability why would you lose the information you gained when the spell ended?
Overall your approach appears to be trying hard to make the ranger relevant target rather than add enjoyment.
That is not the topic nor did any one but you bring that up. you are switching topics to avoid being wrong. In fact you still have not addressed advantage from any source and favored terrain stack.
Might also be that the group is actually exploring a new area and wants to check every couple hours to ensure they are on the right track. Also I don't think the EA spell helps them travel in the area, so that bit is missing. Essentially Rangers do what they are supposed to do, as a class. Nit picking single, individual things and saying class X can to that too with a spell, or item, or feat, is a truly weak argument. Primarily because then next item on the Rangers list, you get to point out that Class Y can do that with BLAH. So you are now using 2 classes, spells or feats, to accomplish what the one would do.
I think the core is, Rangers are underpowered in your mind and thus, you won't use them and likely discourage others who want to. That's fine (more or less) but it's not factual, so the debate here is little more than opinions back and forth, with each able to cite situations and circumstances to support their opinion. Rangers are as good as any other class when played properly.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It's not factual either way.... It's based on opinions and play style so nobody is "Right"
That is how the game is played. A rogue doesn’t get to make one perception check for the entire dungeon.
Please don’t try to turn this around to me. You are on defense here, not me.
Traveling through the uncharted mountains and valleys over days does not boil down to a single ability check. You are doing a disservice to an entire pillar of the game by approaching it on kindergarten mode.
The enhance ability spell gives advantage on...one...type of ability check during am hour. Before and after that hour it’s that creature’s normal roll.
Just took a real look at the scout rogue and now I’m annoyed with WOtC. It does do a nerf job on at least one side of the ranger by outright giving the rogue nature and survival skills (at L3). Some one was trying to create a ranger from a rogue and got away with it it looks like. I’m not really worried about the mage comparisons or Druid comparisons. If your mage really wants to waste 11 minutes each day making a cramped shelter for the party while leaving any horses or pack animals outside fine. Druids can do a lot of the scouting like a ranger but they aren’t as good in a fight except maybe at L1 when everyone is pretty much on par. Yes they can wildshape but the beasts are typically worse at combat than the Druid as they are 1/4 to 1/3 the CR rating of the Druid. Wildshape (IMHO) is meant for scouting not combat. Druids aren’t meant to be front line fighters the way some clerics, many rangers and all fighters are. Yes the scout ranger was purpose built to scout in the wilds (WHY when you already have the ranger) and yes it gets the sneak attack (twice - once on each of 2 different foes above L17) but it doesn’t get the armor or ranged abilities the ranger might have nor does it have the HP the ranger should have. Following the creation of the scout rogue maybe yes the ranger needs a revamp or maybe they need to pull the scout rogue.
anyway, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of this back and forth about how bad the ranger is or isn’t. I like the ranger but I’ll admit it isn’t perfect so look for a new thread - how to improve the ranger? No *****ing about how bad it is just ideas about how to make it better please!
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That's what I tried to do actually and I do have a suggestion a couple pages back!
There is no "defense" or whatever.... It's just a forum about a ttrpg game in which we have a difference in opinion.
It's not "misinformation" it's an opinion that I have.
I feel the PHB ranger features aren't congruent with a normal 5e experience. Others have shared their opinion as well.
We disagree... And that's fine.
Then answer the question about advantage and favored terrain stacking? there are countless times when you have actively switched expertise and advantage to manipulate the data to "prove" a point.
Name what classes can "While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area."
I don't recall this but either or it makes little difference overall.
Expertise from recalling information:
"When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in."
So you still need to be prof in the skill to infer the benefit which may not apply where as the Enhance Ability gives you advantage to all regardless of prof or what terrain you are trying to recall information on.
Based on this it's still very underwhelming IMO.
you did not answer the question how is using a spell slot to "enhance ability" better than a ranger with expertise and still allowed to get advantage from another source using no consumable abilities.
not only that you justify your mis-information as "Makes little difference"
It does in my opinion as it's information recall.
You could just cast the spell, remember the information and then still have plenty of time to use the spell to do what you want.
Perception is based on wisdom so maybe you scout a bit or roll a survival check to start tracking.
You get value out the slot so it's worth it IMO.
Especially since this could be a terrain that the ranger has no clue about... Which is likely if you only know one biome.
getting val
getting value is not the same as better. you have still attempted to avoid the question.
also because you mentioned recalling. granting advantage has a maximum potential. Mathematically and practically. magmatically it still means you cant go over a certain value. expertise does however. there are also impossible checks because having enhanced recall(advantage ) will never give you the information you don't already know. the only way in game to show that you mechanically know something is favored terrain or favored enemy.
many dms will ask "how do you know this?" before allowing a roll. Matt Colville for one. Enhance ability will never solve that question.