I've consistently been able to use Favored Enemy to gather lore and Intel about the game world for both my Horizon Walker and my Fey Wanderer. Hell, I just used Favored Enemy to track the BBEG to her hideout earlier tonight. We're level 9.
I feel like if you can't find a use for Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer that's satisfying, it's because you're actively trying not to.
That's just my two cents. I've been satisfied with the use I get out of the feature. Ditto my friend whose playing a Beast Master in the one campaign where I don't play a Ranger. He's also been satisfied. And he chose Elementals as his Favored Enemy.
…. few people have mentioned non combat encounter design and pacing. its good to have short solvable scenarios in-between longer ones. also understanding how said skills affect the rest of the game. delays could make other things more difficult. finding the right side quest might make the next section easier.
Especially wilderness non combat encounters. Here are a few I have run into at one time or another:
1) someone didn’t clean up around the camp well enough and just as your going to sleep you hear some scuffling in the camp. When yOu look out of your tent you find a skunk is exploring your camp looking for food - what do you do and how do you get rid of the skunk without being sprayed.
2 you go to pitch your tents in a nice open soft grass area then realize it is the lowest spot around and a storm is brewing but there is some nice clear ground along a trail a few feet away and at least 10 inches higher so you pitch your tents there. In the middle of the night your awakened by the thundering of hooves all around you. when you look out you realize the trail is a game trail and a herd of elk are charging along it in panic and leaping over your tents. what do you do? 3) your in the mountains and there is no truly flat place to pitch tents. There is a nearly flat area but it clearly has a slope and a storm is brewing. How do you keep the insides of the tents and your gear dry?
4. your the ranger and understand what happens at night in a desert ( it gets freaking cold) - how do you keep your party from freezing? 5 you have to camp out in a field of lava flows from an active volcano that is erupting and the lava is flowing down over cliffs and then spreading out over the ground. It’s too dangerous to keep moving over the flows in the dark. How do manage to keep everyone safe and allow them to get the rest they need?
these are just a few I’ve run into personally in real life, there are lots more ideas in novels like “The Walking Drum” or the books of “The first Mountainman” series.
I appreciate you actually listing out real scenarios that you have experienced....but lets go through each one and see how the PHB Ranger actually would deal with these.
1. someone didn’t clean up around the camp well enough and just as your going to sleep you hear some scuffling in the camp. When yOu look out of your tent you find a skunk is exploring your camp looking for food - what do you do and how do you get rid of the skunk without being sprayed
So this is likely an Animal Handling Check or perhaps a spell use of Speak with Animals to talk with the skunk. This is an interesting scenario but the only potential for the PHB Ranger's abilities here is and ADV on a nature check if they picked beast as a favored enemy....which is not a great choice but could happen. However, the Scout Rogue already has expertise in Nature! And the druid need not bother as they can just speak with animals and get the skunk to skedaddle. So even giving the ranger the most favorable chance here they are no more prepared to handle the situation than others....especially if they made the "wrong" choice with their Favored Enemy.
2. you go to pitch your tents in a nice open soft grass area then realize it is the lowest spot around and a storm is brewing but there is some nice clear ground along a trail a few feet away and at least 10 inches higher so you pitch your tents there. In the middle of the night your awakened by the thundering of hooves all around you. when you look out you realize the trail is a game trail and a herd of elk are charging along it in panic and leaping over your tents. what do you do?
This one is the one that is completely nullified by magic...ritual magic at that. Tiny Hut makes this a moot point as you never have to sleep in an area that isn't completely save and warm. But say you do not have this spell in the party...what about PHB ranger makes them any more capable to handle this scenario? Again you could get information about the creatures with a Nature check....but so can the others just as easy if not better than you with expertise, Enhance Ability, Guidance, etc.... in fact they are likely to be better than you at it.
3) your in the mountains and there is no truly flat place to pitch tents. There is a nearly flat area but it clearly has a slope and a storm is brewing. How do you keep the insides of the tents and your gear dry?
Tiny Hut.....but a survival check seems to be in order here to fashion a system using trees. Again you might (emphasize might) get ADV on this if you picked the "right" favored terrain. If not then you are no better at this check than others. At least Tasha's Ranger could have Expertise in Survival here to have a chance to be better than others. Overall I do not see an advantage other than a roll here if you are lucky enough to pick the "right" terrain.
4. your the ranger and understand what happens at night in a desert ( it gets freaking cold) - how do you keep your party from freezing?
Wizard casts firebolt to start a fire....no check required. Create Bonfire from one of the other classes that gets cantrips...which you don't have as a ranger. No debris to start on fire? Tiny Hut saves the day again. Also the ranger would only be able to get ADV on the survival check to get the fire started....once again the others have almost the same odds of getting the check or better if they are a high WIS class. Enhance ability has replaced you as the go to for anything at this point. Also an aside for this one.....how did you not plan to need fire in a desert at night? Major ranger fail for not planning for this ahead of time.....
5 you have to camp out in a field of lava flows from an active volcano that is erupting and the lava is flowing down over cliffs and then spreading out over the ground. It’s too dangerous to keep moving over the flows in the dark. How do manage to keep everyone safe and allow them to get the rest they need?
Polymorph into a giant bird and fly people over the lava flows. Tiny Hut as always. Once again the ranger will likely not have any kind of advantage here....it would boil down to a survival roll maybe? if so they are just as likely to succeed as the others....even less so if they did not pick Mountain as their terrain.
Overall it just shows that even in these situations there are far more effective solutions than what a ranger can come up with to solve the situation. Even at lower levels it does not take much for the Cleric, Druid, or Bard to be better than the ranger at a survival roll thanks to Enhance Ability and a decent WIS score.
Can magic be used in the game to overcome these problems? Ov course! But these are real world problems that a L1 ranger (me) actually had to overcome in a world w/o magic. So how do you do that? That shows what a ranger can do. Favored terrains or specialized terrain and foe knowledges help but essentially all of these can be solved without magic and with basic knowledge and skills from survival and nature. Yes a Druid would have them as well but your party may not have a Druid, same for a scout rogue. So how do you solve each problem?
1. animals are scared of fire, skunks are primarily nocturnal so try lighting some torches and waving them close to the ground from one side of the camp to the other. This will make the skunk leave without spraying ( YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET SKUNK SPRAY ON YOU IT IS NOT TRIVIAL TO GET RID OF AND VERY STRONG AND BAD). In the real incident this is based on we turned on all the car lights and did some back and forth with the cars to wash the lights all over the camp then left the lights on for a few minutes so the skunk went elsewhere for the night while cleaning up the camp a bit better. This was a first time camping for many of the people in the group and it served as a minor but exciting intro to why you keep your camp super clean. 2. The elk herd leaping over the tents - what I did was lay back and pray the elk have the equivalent of darkvision and so could see my tent an the guy ropes better than I could see them. Best thing to do was stay still and let them do their thing. It did wake me up and I stayed awake for about an hour afterward in case what ever sent them running followed them up the trail. At least I would have been awake and semi prepared not asleep and disoriented. And a good thing too - what sent them running was a large grizzly bear coming down to the trail head at the lake for a drink. Lucky for me he wasn’t hungry and didn’t come up the trail or I wouldn’t be here now ( grizzly vs L1 ranger w/ no armor and short short & pick hammer is a win for the grizzly).
3. Camped on a slope in a storm - to keep your tent(s) dry on the inside you dig a shallow trench above and then around your tent to catch and channel the water around the tent. No need for magic huts IF your mage even has a scroll or a memorized spell.. this simple solution worked like a charm despite an all night Alabama thunderstorm.
4. Keeping the party from freezing at night - basically taking a lesson from James Bond “shared bodily warmth” - instead of separate spots for individuals all the bedrolls go into one mass sleeping area with the warmest ones on the outside and the thinner ones on the inside then use your spare clothing as an insulating mat underneath and any spare blankets laid over the group. We actually did this not only in the desert (White Sands NM) but on a thanksgiving geology field trip in the Smokies with a bunch of beginning campers. Worked like a charm both times.
5. Camped near active lava flows - basaltic lava flows like water so it follows the terrain filling in the low spots, by camping on elevated benches you can stay above the flows and safe and still get spectacular views of the flows. No need for polymorphing, heat resistance spells etc.
thing to playing (and enjoying) rangers is that they are outdoor experts - super experts in their favored terrains or with favored enemies - and there is always a mundane solution to the problem that saves precious spell slots and memorized spells for real needs. Without the ranger you have to use them, with the ranger they are available to solve other problems. It’s not that other classes can’t do the job they just do it in a more costly way. The ranger improves the party by taking basic survival off the table as a concern. But it helps to actually have some experience as a mundane “ranger” to play a ranger well. After all combat or spell casting is “ just a couple of dice rolls to be resolved” too.
…. few people have mentioned non combat encounter design and pacing. its good to have short solvable scenarios in-between longer ones. also understanding how said skills affect the rest of the game. delays could make other things more difficult. finding the right side quest might make the next section easier.
Especially wilderness non combat encounters. Here are a few I have run into at one time or another:
1) someone didn’t clean up around the camp well enough and just as your going to sleep you hear some scuffling in the camp. When yOu look out of your tent you find a skunk is exploring your camp looking for food - what do you do and how do you get rid of the skunk without being sprayed.
2 you go to pitch your tents in a nice open soft grass area then realize it is the lowest spot around and a storm is brewing but there is some nice clear ground along a trail a few feet away and at least 10 inches higher so you pitch your tents there. In the middle of the night your awakened by the thundering of hooves all around you. when you look out you realize the trail is a game trail and a herd of elk are charging along it in panic and leaping over your tents. what do you do? 3) your in the mountains and there is no truly flat place to pitch tents. There is a nearly flat area but it clearly has a slope and a storm is brewing. How do you keep the insides of the tents and your gear dry?
4. your the ranger and understand what happens at night in a desert ( it gets freaking cold) - how do you keep your party from freezing? 5 you have to camp out in a field of lava flows from an active volcano that is erupting and the lava is flowing down over cliffs and then spreading out over the ground. It’s too dangerous to keep moving over the flows in the dark. How do manage to keep everyone safe and allow them to get the rest they need?
these are just a few I’ve run into personally in real life, there are lots more ideas in novels like “The Walking Drum” or the books of “The first Mountainman” series.
I appreciate you actually listing out real scenarios that you have experienced....but lets go through each one and see how the PHB Ranger actually would deal with these.
1. someone didn’t clean up around the camp well enough and just as your going to sleep you hear some scuffling in the camp. When yOu look out of your tent you find a skunk is exploring your camp looking for food - what do you do and how do you get rid of the skunk without being sprayed
So this is likely an Animal Handling Check or perhaps a spell use of Speak with Animals to talk with the skunk. This is an interesting scenario but the only potential for the PHB Ranger's abilities here is and ADV on a nature check if they picked beast as a favored enemy....which is not a great choice but could happen. However, the Scout Rogue already has expertise in Nature! And the druid need not bother as they can just speak with animals and get the skunk to skedaddle. So even giving the ranger the most favorable chance here they are no more prepared to handle the situation than others....especially if they made the "wrong" choice with their Favored Enemy.
2. you go to pitch your tents in a nice open soft grass area then realize it is the lowest spot around and a storm is brewing but there is some nice clear ground along a trail a few feet away and at least 10 inches higher so you pitch your tents there. In the middle of the night your awakened by the thundering of hooves all around you. when you look out you realize the trail is a game trail and a herd of elk are charging along it in panic and leaping over your tents. what do you do?
This one is the one that is completely nullified by magic...ritual magic at that. Tiny Hut makes this a moot point as you never have to sleep in an area that isn't completely save and warm. But say you do not have this spell in the party...what about PHB ranger makes them any more capable to handle this scenario? Again you could get information about the creatures with a Nature check....but so can the others just as easy if not better than you with expertise, Enhance Ability, Guidance, etc.... in fact they are likely to be better than you at it.
3) your in the mountains and there is no truly flat place to pitch tents. There is a nearly flat area but it clearly has a slope and a storm is brewing. How do you keep the insides of the tents and your gear dry?
Tiny Hut.....but a survival check seems to be in order here to fashion a system using trees. Again you might (emphasize might) get ADV on this if you picked the "right" favored terrain. If not then you are no better at this check than others. At least Tasha's Ranger could have Expertise in Survival here to have a chance to be better than others. Overall I do not see an advantage other than a roll here if you are lucky enough to pick the "right" terrain.
4. your the ranger and understand what happens at night in a desert ( it gets freaking cold) - how do you keep your party from freezing?
Wizard casts firebolt to start a fire....no check required. Create Bonfire from one of the other classes that gets cantrips...which you don't have as a ranger. No debris to start on fire? Tiny Hut saves the day again. Also the ranger would only be able to get ADV on the survival check to get the fire started....once again the others have almost the same odds of getting the check or better if they are a high WIS class. Enhance ability has replaced you as the go to for anything at this point. Also an aside for this one.....how did you not plan to need fire in a desert at night? Major ranger fail for not planning for this ahead of time.....
5 you have to camp out in a field of lava flows from an active volcano that is erupting and the lava is flowing down over cliffs and then spreading out over the ground. It’s too dangerous to keep moving over the flows in the dark. How do manage to keep everyone safe and allow them to get the rest they need?
Polymorph into a giant bird and fly people over the lava flows. Tiny Hut as always. Once again the ranger will likely not have any kind of advantage here....it would boil down to a survival roll maybe? if so they are just as likely to succeed as the others....even less so if they did not pick Mountain as their terrain.
Overall it just shows that even in these situations there are far more effective solutions than what a ranger can come up with to solve the situation. Even at lower levels it does not take much for the Cleric, Druid, or Bard to be better than the ranger at a survival roll thanks to Enhance Ability and a decent WIS score.
Can magic be used in the game to overcome these problems? Ov course! But these are real world problems that a L1 ranger (me) actually had to overcome in a world w/o magic. So how do you do that? That shows what a ranger can do. Favored terrains or specialized terrain and foe knowledges help but essentially all of these can be solved without magic and with basic knowledge and skills from survival and nature. Yes a Druid would have them as well but your party may not have a Druid, same for a scout rogue. So how do you solve each problem?
1. animals are scared of fire, skunks are primarily nocturnal so try lighting some torches and waving them close to the ground from one side of the camp to the other. This will make the skunk leave without spraying ( YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET SKUNK SPRAY ON YOU IT IS NOT TRIVIAL TO GET RID OF AND VERY STRONG AND BAD). In the real incident this is based on we turned on all the car lights and did some back and forth with the cars to wash the lights all over the camp then left the lights on for a few minutes so the skunk went elsewhere for the night while cleaning up the camp a bit better. This was a first time camping for many of the people in the group and it served as a minor but exciting intro to why you keep your camp super clean. 2. The elk herd leaping over the tents - what I did was lay back and pray the elk have the equivalent of darkvision and so could see my tent an the guy ropes better than I could see them. Best thing to do was stay still and let them do their thing. It did wake me up and I stayed awake for about an hour afterward in case what ever sent them running followed them up the trail. At least I would have been awake and semi prepared not asleep and disoriented. And a good thing too - what sent them running was a large grizzly bear coming down to the trail head at the lake for a drink. Lucky for me he wasn’t hungry and didn’t come up the trail or I wouldn’t be here now ( grizzly vs L1 ranger w/ no armor and short short & pick hammer is a win for the grizzly).
3. Camped on a slope in a storm - to keep your tent(s) dry on the inside you dig a shallow trench above and then around your tent to catch and channel the water around the tent. No need for magic huts IF your mage even has a scroll or a memorized spell.. this simple solution worked like a charm despite an all night Alabama thunderstorm.
4. Keeping the party from freezing at night - basically taking a lesson from James Bond “shared bodily warmth” - instead of separate spots for individuals all the bedrolls go into one mass sleeping area with the warmest ones on the outside and the thinner ones on the inside then use your spare clothing as an insulating mat underneath and any spare blankets laid over the group. We actually did this not only in the desert (White Sands NM) but on a thanksgiving geology field trip in the Smokies with a bunch of beginning campers. Worked like a charm both times.
5. Camped near active lava flows - basaltic lava flows like water so it follows the terrain filling in the low spots, by camping on elevated benches you can stay above the flows and safe and still get spectacular views of the flows. No need for polymorphing, heat resistance spells etc.
thing to playing (and enjoying) rangers is that they are outdoor experts - super experts in their favored terrains or with favored enemies - and there is always a mundane solution to the problem that saves precious spell slots and memorized spells for real needs. Without the ranger you have to use them, with the ranger they are available to solve other problems. It’s not that other classes can’t do the job they just do it in a more costly way. The ranger improves the party by taking basic survival off the table as a concern. But it helps to actually have some experience as a mundane “ranger” to play a ranger well. After all combat or spell casting is “ just a couple of dice rolls to be resolved” too.
All these things could be known by anyone with survival prof. Or the outlander background.
They could, the real point is that given the limited number of skills most characters can have, even with backgrounds and racial abilities will they have? In most cases the answer is no. Can any of us create a character in a different class that can do most of what a ranger does? Sure! But it’s easier to do building a ranger. Trying to create a character that has all the skills of one of us mundanes makes the point of how limited a character really is. Rangers do what rangers do better than any other character class and generally better than any subclass unless your specially designing it to replace the ranger. Other characters have other roles and are better off being designed for those roles rather than for covering for the non present ranger.
can the ranger be improved? Almost certainly , but that doesn’t mean it is under powered or badly designed. If you don’t like it fine you don’t have to play it, for those of us that do like it we will keep playing it and enjoying it.
They could, the real point is that given the limited number of skills most characters can have, even with backgrounds and racial abilities will they have? In most cases the answer is no. Can any of us create a character in a different class that can do most of what a ranger does? Sure! But it’s easier to do building a ranger. Trying to create a character that has all the skills of one of us mundanes makes the point of how limited a character really is. Rangers do what rangers do better than any other character class and generally better than any subclass unless your specially designing it to replace the ranger. Other characters have other roles and are better off being designed for those roles rather than for covering for the non present ranger.
can the ranger be improved? Almost certainly , but that doesn’t mean it is under powered or badly designed. If you don’t like it fine you don’t have to play it, for those of us that do like it we will keep playing it and enjoying it.
The "will they" is a fair point.
My major improvement would be you can change your favored enemy and terrain on a long rest. I would then give them climb/swim speed at 6th level then the THP/Exhaustion short rest reduction at 10th.
At 14th level I would allow the ranger to change their enemy/terrain on a short rest.
Capstone would be that when you are in your favored terrain you get a passive speed boost to all your movement. (+10) and get one attack at advantage per turn.
Favored Enemy would still get the WIS to hit or damage but since you can change it would become a lot more generally useful.
They could, the real point is that given the limited number of skills most characters can have, even with backgrounds and racial abilities will they have? In most cases the answer is no. Can any of us create a character in a different class that can do most of what a ranger does? Sure! But it’s easier to do building a ranger. Trying to create a character that has all the skills of one of us mundanes makes the point of how limited a character really is. Rangers do what rangers do better than any other character class and generally better than any subclass unless your specially designing it to replace the ranger. Other characters have other roles and are better off being designed for those roles rather than for covering for the non present ranger.
can the ranger be improved? Almost certainly , but that doesn’t mean it is under powered or badly designed. If you don’t like it fine you don’t have to play it, for those of us that do like it we will keep playing it and enjoying it.
The "will they" is a fair point.
My major improvement would be you can change your favored enemy and terrain on a long rest. I would then give them climb/swim speed at 6th level then the THP/Exhaustion short rest reduction at 10th.
At 14th level I would allow the ranger to change their enemy/terrain on a short rest.
Capstone would be that when you are in your favored terrain you get a passive speed boost to all your movement. (+10) and get one attack at advantage per turn.
Favored Enemy would still get the WIS to hit or damage but since you can change it would become a lot more generally useful.
I wouldn’t let them change it on a rest but I would let them change it each time they go up a level, especially if they have been active in the new terrain a lot during the level. It takes real time to really master survival and nature in a new terrain. I would also go back to letting them have 4 terrains max adding one every 5 levels. Almost the same for favored enemies. Get a new one every 5 levels and let you change one out each time you add a new one. That would allow for growth with experience much better. The climb and swim speeds I can agree with but not the exhaustion. I would give them the champion’s improved critical instead but only against beasts and their favored enemies. At 10th I would give them the champion’s second fighting style. At 14th the superior critical - again only against beasts and favored foes. Capstone probably should be getting all terrains as favored types - let’s face it your 20L and probably retiring so why not? If you made it this far you probably have adventured in all types of terrain so it’s not unreasonable.
This is not a homebrew thread. we are talking real 5e not some fictional version of it. the truth is the PHB ranger can do what it sets out to do skill wise with out resources spent. even if they fail they have spell recourses to fall back on to find a second solution. The PHB ranger can out damage most classes at early levels and continues to maintain decent power throughout.
Any argument that other classes can do it is irrelevant. Any desired Home brew change is irrelevant. I'm glad tashas options exist but there are clear times when I can get more regular use of multiple expertise options for my selected terrain. there are alot out of times where advantage on intelligence checks and tracking is useful for specific enemies. however, I could play a ranger with or without any of NE,FE,FF and/or DE and still hold my adventure weight with any PHB class and most of the new ones.
This is not a homebrew thread. we are talking real 5e not some fictional version of it. the truth is the PHB ranger can do what it sets out to do skill wise with out resources spent. even if they fail they have spell recourses to fall back on to find a second solution. The PHB ranger can out damage most classes at early levels and continues to maintain decent power throughout.
Any argument that other classes can do it is irrelevant. Any desired Home brew change is irrelevant. I'm glad tashas options exist but there are clear times when I can get more regular use of multiple expertise options for my selected terrain. there are alot out of times where advantage on intelligence checks and tracking is useful for specific enemies. however, I could play a ranger with or without any of NE,FE,FF and/or DE and still hold my adventure weight with any PHB class and most of the new ones.
I disagree that the PHB version accomplished really any of the feel of ranger due to the overt restrictions on the class for no real reason when other classes get the same benefits but without the restrictions.
Overall ranger changes were a good deal and I'm glad they happened.
In this case, the restrictions mentioned are not bad. Just for fun, try playing a campaign with a Ranger that has “always on“ natural explore and favorite enemy abilities. No matter where the Ranger is or what creature type he’s being focused on give the Ranger their full abilities for each. All of the expertise, all of the advantages, all of the travel perks.
Having done that before I can tell you that it is WAY too much and completely wrecks everything in a campaign that is not combat.
This is not a homebrew thread. we are talking real 5e not some fictional version of it. the truth is the PHB ranger can do what it sets out to do skill wise with out resources spent. even if they fail they have spell recourses to fall back on to find a second solution. The PHB ranger can out damage most classes at early levels and continues to maintain decent power throughout.
Any argument that other classes can do it is irrelevant. Any desired Home brew change is irrelevant. I'm glad tashas options exist but there are clear times when I can get more regular use of multiple expertise options for my selected terrain. there are alot out of times where advantage on intelligence checks and tracking is useful for specific enemies. however, I could play a ranger with or without any of NE,FE,FF and/or DE and still hold my adventure weight with any PHB class and most of the new ones.
I disagree that the PHB version accomplished really any of the feel of ranger due to the overt restrictions on the class for no real reason when other classes get the same benefits but without the restrictions.
Overall ranger changes were a good deal and I'm glad they happened.
You again side stepped the issue(of can the ranger succeed ) but I think you finally hit the right point. You think it feels bad that is not the same as it being underpowered or bad designed. I believe The restrictions are not as big as made out to be(and have provided evidence in the past) People say ranger abilities are situational. But just many people see the situations where you are unable to find some affective use for the base PHB ranger as the real exception.
many of us ask the question what it means to play a ranger? the answer is ...... a ranger is a class that uses the ranger mechanics in 5e. any thing else is opinion and may not be accurate at another table. too many people like the idea of a "ranger" but don't like the "ranger class" itself. they should accept it and play something they do like. they should not try and poison the system and complain its bad. another option is they can re-evaluate their perception and see how to actually take advantage of what we have(the better option IMO).
Not every class should be for every player. it they tried the game would be generic and boring. I think paladins are a great class but I don't like playing as one even though I like the theme and idea of them. Rangers and paladins actually have close ties in older lore/versions of dnd. But what I don't do is go in and complain how the systems of smites and spells work. I don't go in and say this is how lay on hands or Devine intervention stinks(Hyperbole). I will not try and discourage players from playing it while I dm or play as a party.
RPG game mechanics are about thinking creatively, having fun and changing your perspective to see a world not your own. we should all try to be growing as individuals and becoming more open and better able to quantify our own thoughts and better able to understand the systems all around us. both in the real world and the fictional sand box we play in.
This is not a homebrew thread. we are talking real 5e not some fictional version of it. the truth is the PHB ranger can do what it sets out to do skill wise with out resources spent. even if they fail they have spell recourses to fall back on to find a second solution. The PHB ranger can out damage most classes at early levels and continues to maintain decent power throughout.
Any argument that other classes can do it is irrelevant. Any desired Home brew change is irrelevant. I'm glad tashas options exist but there are clear times when I can get more regular use of multiple expertise options for my selected terrain. there are alot out of times where advantage on intelligence checks and tracking is useful for specific enemies. however, I could play a ranger with or without any of NE,FE,FF and/or DE and still hold my adventure weight with any PHB class and most of the new ones.
I disagree that the PHB version accomplished really any of the feel of ranger due to the overt restrictions on the class for no real reason when other classes get the same benefits but without the restrictions.
Overall ranger changes were a good deal and I'm glad they happened.
You again side stepped the issue(of can the ranger succeed ) but I think you finally hit the right point. You think it feels bad that is not the same as it being underpowered or bad designed. I believe The restrictions are not as big as made out to be(and have provided evidence in the past) People say ranger abilities are situational. But just many people see the situations where you are unable to find some affective use for the base PHB ranger as the real exception.
many of us ask the question what it means to play a ranger? the answer is ...... a ranger is a class that uses the ranger mechanics in 5e. any thing else is opinion and may not be accurate at another table. too many people like the idea of a "ranger" but don't like the "ranger class" itself. they should accept it and play something they do like. they should not try and poison the system and complain its bad. another option is they can re-evaluate their perception and see how to actually take advantage of what we have(the better option IMO).
Not every class should be for every player. it they tried the game would be generic and boring. I think paladins are a great class but I don't like playing as one even though I like the theme and idea of them. Rangers and paladins actually have close ties in older lore/versions of dnd. But what I don't do is go in and complain how the systems of smites and spells work. I don't go in and say this is how lay on hands or Devine intervention stinks(Hyperbole). I will not try and discourage players from playing it while I dm or play as a party.
RPG game mechanics are about thinking creatively, having fun and changing your perspective to see a world not your own. we should all try to be growing as individuals and becoming more open and better able to quantify our own thoughts and better able to understand the systems all around us. both in the real world and the fictional sand box we play in.
I feel it's underpowered compared to what other classes get yes.
All these things could be known by anyone with survival prof. Or the outlander background.
No ranger required
"Just take survival proficiency" is only equivalent with identical Wisdom scores, so chances are only a Cleric or Monk will be able to actually compete with a Ranger, as other classes will want to prioritise other ability scores, and it ignores the fact that Rangers can get more out of survival that other classes can, with improved foraging, better tracking etc. (especially when combined with favoured enemy).
Meanwhile "just take the Outlander background" is the same as saying "just take X feat"; sure, you can take a background/feat to get some of what a class offers, but you won't get all of it, and you're sacrificing other background features/feats in order to get it. It's like saying "well a Paladin can be an archer if they just take a bow"; well sure they can, but why would they, and what are they losing compared to a ranger being the archer? Even so, the only area that Outlander really overlaps with the Ranger is in foraging, but while auto-foraging might be good, high survival double foraging is better (and you'll need it if you have mounts).
And you've also got things like not being able to get lost (as knowing the way, and knowing where you are, are not the same thing), detailed tracking (with advantage for favored enemies), faster movement, can't be easily surprised (and no, taking the Alert feat isn't a counterpoint, see above) and so-on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
All these things could be known by anyone with survival prof. Or the outlander background.
No ranger required
"Just take survival proficiency" is only equivalent with identical Wisdom scores, so chances are only a Cleric or Monk will be able to actually compete with a Ranger, as other classes will want to prioritise other ability scores, and it ignores the fact that Rangers can get more out of survival that other classes can, with improved foraging, better tracking etc. (especially when combined with favoured enemy).
Meanwhile "just take the Outlander background" is the same as saying "just take X feat"; sure, you can take a background/feat to get some of what a class offers, but you won't get all of it, and you're sacrificing other background features/feats in order to get it. It's like saying "well a Paladin can be an archer if they just take a bow"; well sure they can, but why would they, and what are they losing compared to a ranger being the archer? Even so, the only area that Outlander really overlaps with the Ranger is in foraging, but while auto-foraging might be good, high survival double foraging is better (and you'll need it if you have mounts).
And you've also got things like not being able to get lost (as knowing the way, and knowing where you are, are not the same thing), detailed tracking (with advantage for favored enemies), faster movement, can't be easily surprised (and no, taking the Alert feat isn't a counterpoint, see above) and so-on.
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Things like action surge, cunning action, rage, and divine smite are not nearly as easy to replicate or in rangers case just outright surpass.
I don’t think the outlander background automatically provides food at all*. Instead, I read it as while foraging, as normal, you can find food for up to 5 people instead of just one person, which is very different than automatically finding food for 5 people. Even if you play it as an auto win for finding food and water, we are still coming back to the same situation where to re-create what is ranger does well, it takes a specific background, a specific investment in skill proficiencies, and apparently at least two (maybe three) different classes, One of which having to take a very specific sub class, all to re-create what you get from the baseline class features of any Ranger. So if the argument is something the Ranger can do can be done elsewhere, congratulations, that is true, but the cost is very high. A fighter, scout rogue, and cleric, collectively can do what a ranger does. I see that as a strong win for the Ranger. How others interpret it is up to them.
And yes, through spells, feats, and multiclassing just about anyone can do anything else, the difference is prioritizing your character and what they invest in.
And this is all while NOT in a favored terrain or interacting with a favored enemy. This is just normal travel/survival/exploration things. A ranger blows out the competition when their abilities are “on”.
*”...you can find food and fresh water for yourself and up to five other people each day...”
All these things could be known by anyone with survival prof. Or the outlander background.
No ranger required
"Just take survival proficiency" is only equivalent with identical Wisdom scores, so chances are only a Cleric or Monk will be able to actually compete with a Ranger, as other classes will want to prioritise other ability scores, and it ignores the fact that Rangers can get more out of survival that other classes can, with improved foraging, better tracking etc. (especially when combined with favoured enemy).
Meanwhile "just take the Outlander background" is the same as saying "just take X feat"; sure, you can take a background/feat to get some of what a class offers, but you won't get all of it, and you're sacrificing other background features/feats in order to get it. It's like saying "well a Paladin can be an archer if they just take a bow"; well sure they can, but why would they, and what are they losing compared to a ranger being the archer? Even so, the only area that Outlander really overlaps with the Ranger is in foraging, but while auto-foraging might be good, high survival double foraging is better (and you'll need it if you have mounts).
And you've also got things like not being able to get lost (as knowing the way, and knowing where you are, are not the same thing), detailed tracking (with advantage for favored enemies), faster movement, can't be easily surprised (and no, taking the Alert feat isn't a counterpoint, see above) and so-on.
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Things like action surge, cunning action, rage, and divine smite are not nearly as easy to replicate or in rangers case just outright surpass.
Those all are literally a small dip in a class. One or two levels. Easy. So the “crazy powerful” and “insurmountable” abilities you’re talking about require a simple quick multiclass
And those are almost all combat stuff, which we aren’t talking about right now. Only specific rogue builds and perhaps an odd barbarian build can even hope to accomplish what we are talking about right now. And if you insist on changing the subject back to combat and use those things listed as talking points, then I’ll come back with hunter’s mark and conjure animals.
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Except they're not; even your proposed replacement only partially overlaps, and comes at a cost (your choice of background feature). There's nothing easy about giving up something else just to get some of what you want; that's more like taking fighting initiate to gain a fighting style (rather than multi-classing into Fighter), but you have to give up an ability score improvement or feat choice to do that.
It's a perfectly fine choice if you want a Ranger-like character, and maybe it'll be enough for your group (especially if you also have a high WIS Cleric/Monk with Survival etc.), a ranged character and so-on, but what you won't have are any of the unique features or synergies of an actual Ranger. Just as you can potentially do without a Fighter if you have a Monk and Rogue, or without a full spellcaster if you have multiple half-casters and so-on; different is fine, but whether or not it is better varies considerably (and also depends on your DM and group).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Navigation in forest, jungle, swamp, mountains, or open sea with overcast skies and no land in sight is DC 15.
Foraging with very little, if any, food and water sources is a DC 20.
At level 7 with a wisdom modifier of +3, likely for a ranger and less likely for a rogue, and a proficiency bonus of +3, while NOT in a ranger’s favored terrain, the scout rogue (investment in a specific subclass) has a 50% chance to hit a DC 20, a ranger has a 35% chance to hit a DC 20, a non proficient creature with the same wisdom modifier has a 20% chance to hit a DC 20.
So we are talking about a maximum, best case scenario in favor of the scout rogue, 15% advantage over all rangers, only some of the time, which becomes less and less frequent as the party advances in level. Name which published adventures and modules take place in more than two outdoor environments during the entire campaign.
If the ranger is in one of their, now at level 7, two favored terrains, they have the same chance as a scout rogue that committed it’s entire subclass to doing this one thing. Plus the ranger has all of the rest that comes with that ability. Which no other class, spell, subclass, or feat can recreate. And the ranger had to do nothing to achiever this.
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Except they're not; even your proposed replacement only partially overlaps, and comes at a cost (your choice of background feature). There's nothing easy about giving up something else just to get some of what you want; that's more like taking fighting initiate to gain a fighting style (rather than multi-classing into Fighter), but you have to give up an ability score improvement or feat choice to do that.
It's a perfectly fine choice if you want a Ranger-like character, and maybe it'll be enough for your group (especially if you also have a high WIS Cleric/Monk with Survival etc.), a ranged character and so-on, but what you won't have are any of the unique features or synergies of an actual Ranger. Just as you can potentially do without a Fighter if you have a Monk and Rogue, or without a full spellcaster if you have multiple half-casters and so-on; different is fine, but whether or not it is better varies considerably (and also depends on your DM and group).
That's the thing.... The other classes get the ability in any biome so actually the ranger is the one limited.
Navigation in forest, jungle, swamp, mountains, or open sea with overcast skies and no land in sight is DC 15.
Foraging with very little, if any, food and water sources is a DC 20.
At level 7 with a wisdom modifier of +3, likely for a ranger and less likely for a rogue, and a proficiency bonus of +3, while NOT in a ranger’s favored terrain, the scout rogue (investment in a specific subclass) has a 50% chance to hit a DC 20, a ranger has a 35% chance to hit a DC 20, a non proficient creature with the same wisdom modifier has a 20% chance to hit a DC 20.
So we are talking about a maximum, best case scenario in favor of the scout rogue, 15% advantage over all rangers, only some of the time, which becomes less and less frequent as the party advances in level. Name which published adventures and modules take place in more than two outdoor environments during the entire campaign.
If the ranger is in one of their, now at level 7, two favored terrains, they have the same chance as a scout rogue that committed it’s entire subclass to doing this one thing. Plus the ranger has all of the rest that comes with that ability. Which no other class, spell, subclass, or feat can recreate. And the ranger had to do nothing to achiever this.
It's still an advantage and one they get regardless of the biome
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Except they're not; even your proposed replacement only partially overlaps, and comes at a cost (your choice of background feature). There's nothing easy about giving up something else just to get some of what you want; that's more like taking fighting initiate to gain a fighting style (rather than multi-classing into Fighter), but you have to give up an ability score improvement or feat choice to do that.
It's a perfectly fine choice if you want a Ranger-like character, and maybe it'll be enough for your group (especially if you also have a high WIS Cleric/Monk with Survival etc.), a ranged character and so-on, but what you won't have are any of the unique features or synergies of an actual Ranger. Just as you can potentially do without a Fighter if you have a Monk and Rogue, or without a full spellcaster if you have multiple half-casters and so-on; different is fine, but whether or not it is better varies considerably (and also depends on your DM and group).
That's the thing.... The other classes get the ability in any biome so actually the ranger is the one limited.
Limited to one at level 1, and only the powerful stuff is “limited”. The normal proficiencies apply just like everyone else. Worst case scenario the ranger gets the same as these others that specifically focused on doing what all rangers do baseline. When in their biome they are off the charts better than multiple other classes combined.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've consistently been able to use Favored Enemy to gather lore and Intel about the game world for both my Horizon Walker and my Fey Wanderer. Hell, I just used Favored Enemy to track the BBEG to her hideout earlier tonight. We're level 9.
I feel like if you can't find a use for Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer that's satisfying, it's because you're actively trying not to.
That's just my two cents. I've been satisfied with the use I get out of the feature. Ditto my friend whose playing a Beast Master in the one campaign where I don't play a Ranger. He's also been satisfied. And he chose Elementals as his Favored Enemy.
Can magic be used in the game to overcome these problems? Ov course! But these are real world problems that a L1 ranger (me) actually had to overcome in a world w/o magic. So how do you do that? That shows what a ranger can do. Favored terrains or specialized terrain and foe knowledges help but essentially all of these can be solved without magic and with basic knowledge and skills from survival and nature. Yes a Druid would have them as well but your party may not have a Druid, same for a scout rogue. So how do you solve each problem?
1. animals are scared of fire, skunks are primarily nocturnal so try lighting some torches and waving them close to the ground from one side of the camp to the other. This will make the skunk leave without spraying ( YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET SKUNK SPRAY ON YOU IT IS NOT TRIVIAL TO GET RID OF AND VERY STRONG AND BAD). In the real incident this is based on we turned on all the car lights and did some back and forth with the cars to wash the lights all over the camp then left the lights on for a few minutes so the skunk went elsewhere for the night while cleaning up the camp a bit better. This was a first time camping for many of the people in the group and it served as a minor but exciting intro to why you keep your camp super clean.
2. The elk herd leaping over the tents - what I did was lay back and pray the elk have the equivalent of darkvision and so could see my tent an the guy ropes better than I could see them. Best thing to do was stay still and let them do their thing. It did wake me up and I stayed awake for about an hour afterward in case what ever sent them running followed them up the trail. At least I would have been awake and semi prepared not asleep and disoriented. And a good thing too - what sent them running was a large grizzly bear coming down to the trail head at the lake for a drink. Lucky for me he wasn’t hungry and didn’t come up the trail or I wouldn’t be here now ( grizzly vs L1 ranger w/ no armor and short short & pick hammer is a win for the grizzly).
3. Camped on a slope in a storm - to keep your tent(s) dry on the inside you dig a shallow trench above and then around your tent to catch and channel the water around the tent. No need for magic huts IF your mage even has a scroll or a memorized spell.. this simple solution worked like a charm despite an all night Alabama thunderstorm.
4. Keeping the party from freezing at night - basically taking a lesson from James Bond “shared bodily warmth” - instead of separate spots for individuals all the bedrolls go into one mass sleeping area with the warmest ones on the outside and the thinner ones on the inside then use your spare clothing as an insulating mat underneath and any spare blankets laid over the group. We actually did this not only in the desert (White Sands NM) but on a thanksgiving geology field trip in the Smokies with a bunch of beginning campers. Worked like a charm both times.
5. Camped near active lava flows - basaltic lava flows like water so it follows the terrain filling in the low spots, by camping on elevated benches you can stay above the flows and safe and still get spectacular views of the flows. No need for polymorphing, heat resistance spells etc.
thing to playing (and enjoying) rangers is that they are outdoor experts - super experts in their favored terrains or with favored enemies - and there is always a mundane solution to the problem that saves precious spell slots and memorized spells for real needs. Without the ranger you have to use them, with the ranger they are available to solve other problems. It’s not that other classes can’t do the job they just do it in a more costly way. The ranger improves the party by taking basic survival off the table as a concern. But it helps to actually have some experience as a mundane “ranger” to play a ranger well. After all combat or spell casting is “ just a couple of dice rolls to be resolved” too.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
All these things could be known by anyone with survival prof. Or the outlander background.
No ranger required
They could, the real point is that given the limited number of skills most characters can have, even with backgrounds and racial abilities will they have? In most cases the answer is no. Can any of us create a character in a different class that can do most of what a ranger does? Sure! But it’s easier to do building a ranger. Trying to create a character that has all the skills of one of us mundanes makes the point of how limited a character really is. Rangers do what rangers do better than any other character class and generally better than any subclass unless your specially designing it to replace the ranger. Other characters have other roles and are better off being designed for those roles rather than for covering for the non present ranger.
can the ranger be improved? Almost certainly , but that doesn’t mean it is under powered or badly designed. If you don’t like it fine you don’t have to play it, for those of us that do like it we will keep playing it and enjoying it.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The "will they" is a fair point.
My major improvement would be you can change your favored enemy and terrain on a long rest. I would then give them climb/swim speed at 6th level then the THP/Exhaustion short rest reduction at 10th.
At 14th level I would allow the ranger to change their enemy/terrain on a short rest.
Capstone would be that when you are in your favored terrain you get a passive speed boost to all your movement. (+10) and get one attack at advantage per turn.
Favored Enemy would still get the WIS to hit or damage but since you can change it would become a lot more generally useful.
I wouldn’t let them change it on a rest but I would let them change it each time they go up a level, especially if they have been active in the new terrain a lot during the level. It takes real time to really master survival and nature in a new terrain. I would also go back to letting them have 4 terrains max adding one every 5 levels. Almost the same for favored enemies. Get a new one every 5 levels and let you change one out each time you add a new one. That would allow for growth with experience much better. The climb and swim speeds I can agree with but not the exhaustion. I would give them the champion’s improved critical instead but only against beasts and their favored enemies. At 10th I would give them the champion’s second fighting style. At 14th the superior critical - again only against beasts and favored foes. Capstone probably should be getting all terrains as favored types - let’s face it your 20L and probably retiring so why not? If you made it this far you probably have adventured in all types of terrain so it’s not unreasonable.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This is not a homebrew thread. we are talking real 5e not some fictional version of it. the truth is the PHB ranger can do what it sets out to do skill wise with out resources spent. even if they fail they have spell recourses to fall back on to find a second solution. The PHB ranger can out damage most classes at early levels and continues to maintain decent power throughout.
Any argument that other classes can do it is irrelevant. Any desired Home brew change is irrelevant. I'm glad tashas options exist but there are clear times when I can get more regular use of multiple expertise options for my selected terrain. there are alot out of times where advantage on intelligence checks and tracking is useful for specific enemies. however, I could play a ranger with or without any of NE,FE,FF and/or DE and still hold my adventure weight with any PHB class and most of the new ones.
I disagree that the PHB version accomplished really any of the feel of ranger due to the overt restrictions on the class for no real reason when other classes get the same benefits but without the restrictions.
Overall ranger changes were a good deal and I'm glad they happened.
In this case, the restrictions mentioned are not bad. Just for fun, try playing a campaign with a Ranger that has “always on“ natural explore and favorite enemy abilities. No matter where the Ranger is or what creature type he’s being focused on give the Ranger their full abilities for each. All of the expertise, all of the advantages, all of the travel perks.
Having done that before I can tell you that it is WAY too much and completely wrecks everything in a campaign that is not combat.
You again side stepped the issue(of can the ranger succeed ) but I think you finally hit the right point. You think it feels bad that is not the same as it being underpowered or bad designed. I believe The restrictions are not as big as made out to be(and have provided evidence in the past) People say ranger abilities are situational. But just many people see the situations where you are unable to find some affective use for the base PHB ranger as the real exception.
many of us ask the question what it means to play a ranger? the answer is ...... a ranger is a class that uses the ranger mechanics in 5e. any thing else is opinion and may not be accurate at another table. too many people like the idea of a "ranger" but don't like the "ranger class" itself. they should accept it and play something they do like. they should not try and poison the system and complain its bad. another option is they can re-evaluate their perception and see how to actually take advantage of what we have(the better option IMO).
Not every class should be for every player. it they tried the game would be generic and boring. I think paladins are a great class but I don't like playing as one even though I like the theme and idea of them. Rangers and paladins actually have close ties in older lore/versions of dnd. But what I don't do is go in and complain how the systems of smites and spells work. I don't go in and say this is how lay on hands or Devine intervention stinks(Hyperbole). I will not try and discourage players from playing it while I dm or play as a party.
RPG game mechanics are about thinking creatively, having fun and changing your perspective to see a world not your own. we should all try to be growing as individuals and becoming more open and better able to quantify our own thoughts and better able to understand the systems all around us. both in the real world and the fictional sand box we play in.
I feel it's underpowered compared to what other classes get yes.
"Just take survival proficiency" is only equivalent with identical Wisdom scores, so chances are only a Cleric or Monk will be able to actually compete with a Ranger, as other classes will want to prioritise other ability scores, and it ignores the fact that Rangers can get more out of survival that other classes can, with improved foraging, better tracking etc. (especially when combined with favoured enemy).
Meanwhile "just take the Outlander background" is the same as saying "just take X feat"; sure, you can take a background/feat to get some of what a class offers, but you won't get all of it, and you're sacrificing other background features/feats in order to get it. It's like saying "well a Paladin can be an archer if they just take a bow"; well sure they can, but why would they, and what are they losing compared to a ranger being the archer? Even so, the only area that Outlander really overlaps with the Ranger is in foraging, but while auto-foraging might be good, high survival double foraging is better (and you'll need it if you have mounts).
And you've also got things like not being able to get lost (as knowing the way, and knowing where you are, are not the same thing), detailed tracking (with advantage for favored enemies), faster movement, can't be easily surprised (and no, taking the Alert feat isn't a counterpoint, see above) and so-on.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
But they are.... They are really easily replicated
Things like action surge, cunning action, rage, and divine smite are not nearly as easy to replicate or in rangers case just outright surpass.
I don’t think the outlander background automatically provides food at all*. Instead, I read it as while foraging, as normal, you can find food for up to 5 people instead of just one person, which is very different than automatically finding food for 5 people. Even if you play it as an auto win for finding food and water, we are still coming back to the same situation where to re-create what is ranger does well, it takes a specific background, a specific investment in skill proficiencies, and apparently at least two (maybe three) different classes, One of which having to take a very specific sub class, all to re-create what you get from the baseline class features of any Ranger. So if the argument is something the Ranger can do can be done elsewhere, congratulations, that is true, but the cost is very high. A fighter, scout rogue, and cleric, collectively can do what a ranger does. I see that as a strong win for the Ranger. How others interpret it is up to them.
And yes, through spells, feats, and multiclassing just about anyone can do anything else, the difference is prioritizing your character and what they invest in.
And this is all while NOT in a favored terrain or interacting with a favored enemy. This is just normal travel/survival/exploration things. A ranger blows out the competition when their abilities are “on”.
*”...you can find food and fresh water for yourself and up to five other people each day...”
Those all are literally a small dip in a class. One or two levels. Easy. So the “crazy powerful” and “insurmountable” abilities you’re talking about require a simple quick multiclass
And those are almost all combat stuff, which we aren’t talking about right now. Only specific rogue builds and perhaps an odd barbarian build can even hope to accomplish what we are talking about right now. And if you insist on changing the subject back to combat and use those things listed as talking points, then I’ll come back with hunter’s mark and conjure animals.
Except they're not; even your proposed replacement only partially overlaps, and comes at a cost (your choice of background feature). There's nothing easy about giving up something else just to get some of what you want; that's more like taking fighting initiate to gain a fighting style (rather than multi-classing into Fighter), but you have to give up an ability score improvement or feat choice to do that.
It's a perfectly fine choice if you want a Ranger-like character, and maybe it'll be enough for your group (especially if you also have a high WIS Cleric/Monk with Survival etc.), a ranged character and so-on, but what you won't have are any of the unique features or synergies of an actual Ranger. Just as you can potentially do without a Fighter if you have a Monk and Rogue, or without a full spellcaster if you have multiple half-casters and so-on; different is fine, but whether or not it is better varies considerably (and also depends on your DM and group).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Tracking in bare stone is DC 20.
Navigation in forest, jungle, swamp, mountains, or open sea with overcast skies and no land in sight is DC 15.
Foraging with very little, if any, food and water sources is a DC 20.
At level 7 with a wisdom modifier of +3, likely for a ranger and less likely for a rogue, and a proficiency bonus of +3, while NOT in a ranger’s favored terrain, the scout rogue (investment in a specific subclass) has a 50% chance to hit a DC 20, a ranger has a 35% chance to hit a DC 20, a non proficient creature with the same wisdom modifier has a 20% chance to hit a DC 20.
So we are talking about a maximum, best case scenario in favor of the scout rogue, 15% advantage over all rangers, only some of the time, which becomes less and less frequent as the party advances in level. Name which published adventures and modules take place in more than two outdoor environments during the entire campaign.
If the ranger is in one of their, now at level 7, two favored terrains, they have the same chance as a scout rogue that committed it’s entire subclass to doing this one thing. Plus the ranger has all of the rest that comes with that ability. Which no other class, spell, subclass, or feat can recreate. And the ranger had to do nothing to achiever this.
That's the thing.... The other classes get the ability in any biome so actually the ranger is the one limited.
It's still an advantage and one they get regardless of the biome
Limited to one at level 1, and only the powerful stuff is “limited”. The normal proficiencies apply just like everyone else. Worst case scenario the ranger gets the same as these others that specifically focused on doing what all rangers do baseline. When in their biome they are off the charts better than multiple other classes combined.