anyhow, assassin is a no-go as a tank. It only makes tou epic in surprise round. Arcane Trickster is probably fine, I just really think it is wrong to Compare two attacks to one boomolg blade. Extra attack will be better pretty much all the time.
I dont see them as opposites though, you still benefit greatly from booming blade on opportunity attacks with battle caster. Try doing some average damage calculations with one attack vs two. Two attacks is the best ability there is. More so as a rogue.
anyhow, assassin is a no-go as a tank. It only makes tou epic in surprise round. Arcane Trickster is probably fine, I just really think it is wrong to Compare two attacks to one boomolg blade. Extra attack will be better pretty much all the time.
I dont see them as opposites though, you still benefit greatly from booming blade on opportunity attacks with battle caster. Try doing some average damage calculations with one attack vs two. Two attacks is the best ability there is. More so as a rogue.
I've got 16 Dex, 14 Wisdom, 13 Constitution (likely doing Resilient Constitution at level 8), 10 Intelligence, 10 Strength, 8 Charisma. We rolled for stats, and I rolled slightly worse than the standard array. I'm a Human Folk Hero with the Medium Armor Master Feat. I'm proficient in Animal Handling, Insight, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival. When I multi-class Rogue, I will take proficiency in Sleight of Hand and expertise in Stealth and Perception. I'm also proficient in Land Vehicles and Cartographer's Tools. I know Common, Elvish, and Draconic. My favored enemy is Dragons and my favored terrain is Mountains.
I did the math, and if the target moves, Booming Blade is better than extra attack. It also depends on your chance to hit, though. With a low enough chance to hit, the extra attack's second chance to get Sneak Attack damage helps out a lot. Getting Booming Blade opportunity attacks is a huge huge damage boost if the enemies are indeed running away from me. Getting advantage on attacks because we're fighting in total darkness brings the chance to miss down low enough that extra attack doesn't help as much. But without advantage it's very different.
Assassin would be for establishing myself as a threat and getting enemies to focus on me because of the extreme amount of damage I do right at the start. Our DM makes damage done a huge factor when determining who the enemies are going to attack (I think this is fairly common among DMs).
I'm a Ranger 3 Rogue 2 now, and still planning on doing Arcane Trickster at next level, then doing a 4th level in Ranger for War Caster (and doubling my spell slots for casting Shield 6x per day), and then a 4th level in Rogue for Resilient Constitution or Spell Sniper.
I'm considering doing the Spell Sniper feat with Thorn Whip (because it's a Druid spell, thus I get a +2 from Wisdom instead of a +0 from intelligence for a Wizard spell or a -1 from Charisma for a Bard/Sorcerer/Warlock spell). Also, it lets me pull an enemy towards me, which would be very useful as a tank. But also for another unique part of the feat, that Booming Blade will instead become 10ft range, which means I could switch out my Short Sword for a Whip, and start doing Booming Blade on my 10ft reach melee attacks with a whip (that still can get sneak attack because it's a finesse weapon).
I'm already trying to do something unique instead of min-maxing (I know that a Ranger-Rogue multi-class isn't the optimal tank), but I'm trying to make sure that I'm still useful enough in combat. Is the Spell Sniper Feat a reasonable choice given what I want to do with it, or would it not make sense given that I'm a tanky Ranger-Rogue?
I'm a Ranger 3 Rogue 2 now, and still planning on doing Arcane Trickster at next level, then doing a 4th level in Ranger for War Caster (and doubling my spell slots for casting Shield 6x per day), and then a 4th level in Rogue for Resilient Constitution or Spell Sniper.
I'm considering doing the Spell Sniper feat with Thorn Whip (because it's a Druid spell, thus I get a +2 from Wisdom instead of a +0 from intelligence for a Wizard spell or a -1 from Charisma for a Bard/Sorcerer/Warlock spell). Also, it lets me pull an enemy towards me, which would be very useful as a tank. But also for another unique part of the feat, that Booming Blade will instead become 10ft range, which means I could switch out my Short Sword for a Whip, and start doing Booming Blade on my 10ft reach melee attacks with a whip (that still can get sneak attack because it's a finesse weapon).
I'm already trying to do something unique instead of min-maxing (I know that a Ranger-Rogue multi-class isn't the optimal tank), but I'm trying to make sure that I'm still useful enough in combat. Is the Spell Sniper Feat a reasonable choice given what I want to do with it, or would it not make sense given that I'm a tanky Ranger-Rogue?
Wait. 1d8 averages 4.5. 2d8 averages 9. What am I missing?
You are correct, 9 it is
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I think you have to go to 5 ranger for two attacks. Honestly, I’m playing a half-orc strength ranger who is something of a tank as well. Well, he is level 2. My plan is to take him to 7 ranger and then maybe 8 for the second ability score increase. My philosophy vis a vis tanking is there is something to the idea that when things die they do less damage.
The reason is the ranger gets two attacks at 5 and then some defensive abilities in that level range, including proficiency in wisdom saves from gloom stalker. That may keep you in the game, tanking, if you’re not held or charmed or something.
I think rather than feats you might just increase the ability score that will improve your hit rate and damage - Dex in your case. Imagine if you had spent that ability score increase from variant human on +2 dex and the one you get at 4th Ranger. So you are 6th level, Ranger 4 / Rogue 2 or even 4/3 with your shield spell. Then you would have 20 AC in studded leather and shield (+2 studded + 5 dex +1 defensive style +2 shield) and more if your shield or armor were magic. Plus you would be doing 10% more damage than you are now simply by virtue of hitting 10% more of the time, not to mention the +2 damage from having 20 dex vs just 16.
Keep in mind you will need warcaster to cast shield with the sword and board in your hand.
So, really, you paid a heavy cost for a feat that doesn’t give you back very much given your dex. Since that is your primary attribute, you will eventually be raising it beyond even the cap afforded to you by medium armor master. The feat will become sort of obsolete as soon as you raise your dex high enough. I’m not saying it’s bad, just giving some feedback on how I see it. I know it’s your concept, etc.
The TLDR is - the best way to compel things to hit you will increase your chance to hit and your damage - increase your dex. I would ask your GM if he would let you swap medium armor master for warcaster and increase your dex with the next attribute increase.
I think you have to go to 5 ranger for two attacks. Honestly, I’m playing a half-orc strength ranger who is something of a tank as well. Well, he is level 2. My plan is to take him to 7 ranger and then maybe 8 for the second ability score increase. My philosophy vis a vis tanking is there is something to the idea that when things die they do less damage.
The reason is the ranger gets two attacks at 5 and then some defensive abilities in that level range, including proficiency in wisdom saves from gloom stalker. That may keep you in the game, tanking, if you’re not held or charmed or something.
I think rather than feats you might just increase the ability score that will improve your hit rate and damage - Dex in your case. Imagine if you had spent that ability score increase from variant human on +2 dex and the one you get at 4th Ranger. So you are 6th level, Ranger 4 / Rogue 2 or even 4/3 with your shield spell. Then you would have 20 AC in studded leather and shield (+2 studded + 5 dex +1 defensive style +2 shield) and more if your shield or armor were magic. Plus you would be doing 10% more damage than you are now simply by virtue of hitting 10% more of the time, not to mention the +2 damage from having 20 dex vs just 16.
Keep in mind you will need warcaster to cast shield with the sword and board in your hand.
So, really, you paid a heavy cost for a feat that doesn’t give you back very much given your dex. Since that is your primary attribute, you will eventually be raising it beyond even the cap afforded to you by medium armor master. The feat will become sort of obsolete as soon as you raise your dex high enough. I’m not saying it’s bad, just giving some feedback on how I see it. I know it’s your concept, etc.
The TLDR is - the best way to compel things to hit you will increase your chance to hit and your damage - increase your dex. I would ask your GM if he would let you swap medium armor master for warcaster and increase your dex with the next attribute increase.
Variant Human gets a feat, not an ASI, so you can't choose +2 Dex as your "feat". It would make Variant Human pretty OP to allow them to choose an ASI at level 1, allowing them to get +3 to a stat of their choice and +1 to a second stat. No race in the game gets +3 to a stat, and to allow Variant Human to get +3 to a stat of their choice would be pretty ridiculous. I doubt that even your game would allow that.
You're comparing 20 Dex to 16 Dex + Medium Armor Master, which means comparing two ASIs to one feat. That's not a fair comparison at all (especially since choosing a +2 Dex ASI at level 1 as variant human isn't an option in my game or probably in anybody's game). Obviously I prefer 20 Dex to having 16 Dex + Medium Armor Master. But that's comparing Apples to Oranges.
The campaign is going to finish around level 12, we're not going all the way out to level 20. And because my Constitution score is odd, I do plan on taking Resilient Constitution. So the most my Dexterity is going to be is 18, and that's only going to be once I reach level 12, which might be our final level of the campaign. It'll be 16 Dexterity for the first 11 levels, which means that the Medium Armor Master feat gives me +2 AC for 11 levels, which is probably 80-90% of the campaign (and because I need to take war caster as my first feat, I wouldn't have the opportunity to choose +2 Dex and get +1 AC until level 8). And it gives me the flexibility to choose a feat like Spell Sniper or Mage Slayer or something like that as my "capstone" for the final level of the campaign.
I did consider taking Resilient Constitution as my starting feat, with Warcaster as my second feat at level 7. That would have left me with 16 Dex and 18 AC with Studded Leather until level 8, when it would go up to 18 Dex and 19 AC. And I would have been able to get to 20 Dex at level 12, which is about the time the campaign is going to end. Instead, I choose Medium Armor Master which gave me +2 AC for the first 7 levels, at the cost of 1 HP per level and not having proficiency in Constitution Saving throws. Only once I reached level 8 would I be able to even get to 19 AC (unless I find magic items to boost my AC) if I hadn't chosen Medium Armor Master. But just as expected, AC has been much more important than Constitution Saves at lower levels.
I chose Medium Armor Master knowing that the campaign was going to end around level 12. If my goal was to make a great character at level 12, without caring about how strong he was in the first 7 levels, I would have built my character differently. But that wasn't my goal. Heck, my character wasn't even guaranteed to make it to level 8. He could have been killed early on and I would be re-rolling a new character. If my goal was to have a powerful character at level 12, I would not have chosen the feat. But I care about the path to level 12 more than I care about being powerful for the last level of the campaign.
I consider +2 AC for the first 7 levels to be a pretty big bonus (and +1 AC for the next 4 levels). You think that I don't get very much from the feat, but I think +2 AC for the first 7 levels is pretty big. That's a pretty big portion of the campaign.
If I can buy Half Plate, that gives me +1 AC. I don't even need to find Magic Armor to get +1 AC. And if I can find magic Half Plate, that's even better. Studded Leather + 20 Dex is still 1 AC less than Half Plate with 16 Dex. We're only at level 6 right now, but it looks like I'll have the money to buy Half Plate by the time we reach level 8. Since I would only have been able to get to 18 Dex at level 8 anyways, that means that buying Half Plate at level 8 means that my feat will end up giving me +2 AC all the way until level 12.
In other words, the feat gives me +2 AC for the first 11 levels of a 12 level campaign. And you say the feat isn't giving me much? C'mon man, don't be a fool.
Getting extra attack from Ranger isn't really a damage increase. I've got Booming Blade, and you can't use that in combination with extra attack (although maybe your game is different, since you "seem" to allow a variant human to take a +2 Dex ASI in place of taking a feat at level 1). The party has 3 ranged people, plus a Rogue and a Monk, so we're a very mobile party. It's a hassle for our DM, but we don't like to stay in one place when fighting. Since reaching level 5, I've been using my bonus action for cunning action most of the time. I'm mostly using my spell slots for Cure Wounds and I'll start using the spell slots for [spell[Shield[/spell] at the next level when I get warcaster, so I'm not really using Hunter's Mark - I plan on swapping it out for Fog Cloud next level. And because we're so mobile, I'm expecting the second part of Booming Blade to trigger quite often (I haven't had much chance to use it yet because we just got to level 6).
But it's important to understand what you're comparing Extra Attack to. Obviously, Ranger 8 Rogue 4 does more damage than Ranger 4 Rogue 4. But again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Instead, you should compare it to Ranger 4 Rogue 8.
If you want to talk about a damage increase, Shadow Blade is a damage increase. As are extra dice for Sneak Attack.
If I go Ranger 8 Rogue 4, I don't get Shadow Blade and I only get 2D6 Sneak attack. And yes, I get extra attack at level 9 instead of waiting until level 11 for Shadow Blade. But I have to choose between Extra Attack and Booming Blade, I can't do both. Extra Attack gives a second chance to land Sneak Attack, but it can't give it twice in one turn.
On the other hand, If I go Ranger 4 Rogue 8, I get Shadow Blade and 4D6 Sneak Attack. I don't get proficiency in Wisdom Saving Throws, but I get Uncanny Dodge and Evasion instead. Proficiency is Wisdom Saving throws is great, but I think I prefer Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. Especially since we're fighting a lot of Giants that hit really hard, so having Uncanny Dodge is going to come in very handy, whereas proficiency is Wisdom Saving throws will be less important. I can get 4D6 Sneak Attack twice per round if I do an opportunity attack. Going Ranger 4 Rogue 8 makes my opportunity attacks do more damage, whereas Ranger 8 Rogue 4 does not do that.
TLDR: When you're making comparisons, please make appropriate comparisons. Stop comparing Apples to Oranges.
Here is the math on Extra Attack. Comparing Apples to Apples. I'm using a Short Sword, and not using Hunter's Mark. I'll include the modifications for Gloomstalker's extra attack and Rogue's potential improved opportunity attackd at the end.
Ranger 5 Rogue 4
Does 1D6+3 damage on each attack, plus 2D6 Sneak Attack damage once if either attack hits. If both attacks land and aren't crits, the average damage is 20.
Ranger 4 Rogue 5
Does 1D6+3+1D8 damage on one attack, plus 3D6 Sneak Attack damage if the attack hits. If the attack hits and isn't a crit, the average damage is 21.5. if the target moves, it takes another 2D8 damage (average of 9).
If you drop the chance to hit to 75%, the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 drops to 16.3125 average damage, and the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 drops to 16.125 average damage. So if the target moves just once every 48 times, the extra 2D8 damage evens it out.
If you drop the chance to hit down to 50%, the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 does 11.75 average damage, while the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 does 10.75 average damage. So now the target needs to move once every 9 times for the additional 2D8 damage to even it out.
The Ranger 4 Rogue 5's average damage is falling faster than the Ranger 5 Rogue 4's average damage is falling because of the two opportunities the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 gets for Sneak Attack each turn.
As for the Gloomstalker extra attack on round 1, this adds another 6.5 average damage, and it causes the average Sneak Attack damage on round 1 to fall even slower.
On the other hand, the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 does an extra 1D6 Sneak Attack on many of it's opportunity attacks, and very likely does add on the additional 2D8 damage for a voluntarily moving target both on its initial attack AND on the opportunity attack. Often 4D8 extra damage if a target really wants to get away and doesn't disengage. In other words, a fantastic crowd control ability that you wouldn't get if you're not using Booming Blade.
A Ranger 7 Rogue 4 does basically the same damage as a Ranger 5 Rogue 4. On the other hand, a Ranger 4 Rogue 7 does an additional 1D6 Sneak Attack damage, an additional 1D8 initial damage, and a possible additional 1D8 damage if the target moves, when compared to the Ranger 4 Rogue 5. Level 11 provides a huge huge boost to the Ranger 4 Rogue 7 that uses Booming Blade, and no damage boost at all to the Ranger 7 Rogue 4 that relies on Extra Attack instead of Booming Blade.
And that's not even including the damage boost and chance to hit boost it would get for using Shadow Blade.
So please stop making the claim that picking up Extra Attack from Ranger level 5 is essential. It is not.
With no Sneak Attack, the math is extremely simple.
Ranger 5 Rogue 4 gets 1D6+3 twice, for 13 average. Ranger 7 Rogue 4 gets 1D6+3 twice, for 13 average. Ranger 4 Rogue 5 gets 1D6+3+1D8 for 11 average, plus 2D8 if the target moves. The target has to move 2 out of every 9 times for the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 to keep up in this situation. Ranger 4 Rogue 7 gets 1D6+3+2D8 for 15.5 average, plus 3D8 if the target moves, and it's ahead in damage even if the target never moves.
I've never made a variant human pc tbh so I just guessed they were able to do that.
You're right re: 20 dex vs MAM isn't a fair comparison, though. I see what you mean.
I think you've got it all figured out. I just think when you get higher level, having wisdom saves and a higher to-hit stat might enable you to do more damage and tank better.
" Variant Human gets a feat, not an ASI, so you can't choose +2 Dex as your "feat". It would make Variant Human pretty OP to allow them to choose an ASI at level 1, allowing them to get +3 to a stat of their choice and +1 to a second stat. No race in the game gets +3 to a stat, and to allow Variant Human to get +3 to a stat of their choice would be pretty ridiculous. I doubt that even your game would allow that. "
I'm not advocating for it, but just theorycrafting. If they are equivalent at level 4 and can be freely substituted, how are they not at level 1? Is it just that having +1 more to hit or to ac or hp would destroy the game? I have a character in a game with rolled stats that started with an 18 in a score. It didn't seem broken to me.
Another version of the same question - if it's so powerful at level 1, what causes it to drop to equivalence at level 4? Maybe it's better to have the +1 to a modifier at more levels than just 1st.
" Variant Human gets a feat, not an ASI, so you can't choose +2 Dex as your "feat". It would make Variant Human pretty OP to allow them to choose an ASI at level 1, allowing them to get +3 to a stat of their choice and +1 to a second stat. No race in the game gets +3 to a stat, and to allow Variant Human to get +3 to a stat of their choice would be pretty ridiculous. I doubt that even your game would allow that. "
I'm not advocating for it, but just theorycrafting. If they are equivalent at level 4 and can be freely substituted, how are they not at level 1? Is it just that having +1 more to hit or to ac or hp would destroy the game? I have a character in a game with rolled stats that started with an 18 in a score. It didn't seem broken to me.
Another version of the same question - if it's so powerful at level 1, what causes it to drop to equivalence at level 4? Maybe it's better to have the +1 to a modifier at more levels than just 1st.
Because I'm multi-classing, and I've taken 3 levels in Ranger, and then 3 levels in Rogue, I still haven't had a chance to take a feat or ASI yet despite being at level 6. Unfortunately, neither Ranger or Rogue starts off with spellcasting, so taking War Caster as my initial feat wasn't an option, but having the ability to cast Booming Blade or Shield as reactions is pretty key to my build, so that has to be the first feat/ASI that I take.
Variant Human is more of a race for people doing a build that is built around feats, it's not as much of a race for the builds that are really focused on getting their main stat to 20 ASAP. Humans already have an extreme amount of flexibility, so making them the top race in the game for people whose goal is to get their main stat to 20 ASAP would be overkill. That's why I think it's important that Variant Humans not be granted the ability to start off the game with +3 in a stat and to get to +5 in that stat at level 4.
My hope before rolling the character was to roll a 16+ and play a Wood Elf Ranger and start off with 18 Dex, or to do a High Elf Fighter and start off with 18 Dex, and use one of those two classes as a way to get the Defense Fighting Style and ability to use Shields before going down the Arcane Trickster path.
But my top roll was a 15, so I had to adjust. Initially, my plan was to take Resilient Constitution as my feat, which would help me to use Hunter's Mark despite being a tanky melee character. Especially since I was going to have to start off with a 13 in Constitution unless I took Resilient Constitution. I have tried using Hunter's Mark a bit so far, and I don't like it. Trying to use it as a melee character without war caster and just +1 to Con Saves is frustrating. Trust me, the level 7 proficiency in Wisdom Saves that Gloom Stalker gets is something really intriguing. I really love proficiency in saving throws and I really love AC. When I did the numbers, I realized that choosing Medium Armor Master would get me +2 AC all the way until level 12 (because of the need to select War Caster for my first feat/ASI at level 7). And I do love having high AC, especially at lower levels where saving throws are less frequent and where the proficiency bonus is smaller.
So I was considering the two options of taking Resilient Con at 1, War Caster at 7, Dex at 8, and Dex at 12, and using Studded Leather, and the other option of choosing Medium Armor Master at 1, War Caster at 7, Resilient Con at 8, purchasing a half plate around level 8, and then having the freedom at level 12 to choose a more fun feat or to just choose Dex. If I'm going for the more powerful level 12 character, I think Resilient Con at 1 and maxing out Dex at level 12 is the better option. But having 20 AC at level 2 and having +2 AC for the first 11 levels appealed more to me because it'll be a long time getting all the way to level 12. I didn't really give serious thought to any paths other than those two once I found out that my top score was just a 15 before racial modifiers. But that's all pretty much irrelevant now because I'm certainly not going to ask my DM to let me change which feat I chose 6 levels ago, especially asking to change it to a feat that I didn't meet the prerequisite for at the time.
I do really like the Gloom Stalker's proficiency in Wisdom Saves at level 7, and I do think it's a more useful ability than the Rogue's also really awesome level 7 ability of Evasion. Evasion on a high Dex character with proficiency in Dex Saves is certainly a wonderful tanking ability. Not as great as proficiency in Wisdom Saves, but still a very very good ability. No one needs to sell me on how awesome the Gloom Stalker level 7 ability is. What I need people to sell me on is how to use the Ranger level 2 spells. That's really the only way to convince me to go Ranger 8 Rogue 4 instead of Ranger 4 Rogue 8.
For damage, once Booming Blade increases in power at level 11, it blows past the Ranger's extra attack, especially if I'm adding more Sneak Attack dice. If I want more damage at level 11+, I'm going Ranger 4 Rogue 7. Especially with Shadow Blade making it much easier to generate Sneak Attack.
Rogues getting expertise in two more stats at level 6 is much better than Rangers getting another favored enemy and favored terrain at level 6. And the Rogue 5th level Uncanny Dodge and 7th level Evasion abilities are both great for tanking, and together they're about even with having proficiency in Wisdom Saves from Gloom Stalker at level 7. Both paths have pretty comparable tanking abilities.
The only area where Ranger to level 8 wins out is in the spell slots and spells available. And they do have a big advantage in that area because their spells are more focused on battlefield control and utility, whereas Arcane Trickster spells are mostly just Enchantment and Illusion spells. I don't know anything about how to use Ranger level 2 spells (or Ranger level 1 spells for that matter, because I've mostly been doing Cure Wounds or doing frustrating attempts to use Hunter's Mark as a tank without war caster and only +1 to Con Saves).
The Spell Sniper Feat for a 60ft Thorn Whip and 10ft Booming Blade is an interesting idea I had, but I don't know if I would do that at level 12. I actually used that idea for another character in the other campaign that my group is doing right now, so that decreases my interest in doing that in this campaign.
I still have some time to figure out what spell change I want to make when I take my 4th level in Ranger. Right now I'm leaning towards swapping out Goodberry or Hunter's Mark for Fog Cloud.
I'm mostly looking for advice on Ranger spells and battle tactics for Ranger, and not for people to keep telling me that I need Extra Attack even though Booming Blade will blow it out of the water once I reach level 11 and is still about even with it before level 11, or people questioning my decision to use the rarely used feat of Medium Armor Master.
I really like the depth of thought you've put in. It gives you a lot to think about. To be honest, I've always had a bit of FOMO in terms of multiclassing, but I see how your ideas work together pretty well.
You're right - I didn't think about booming blade vs attacks and stacking sneak attack along with that because I was thinking about the Gloom Stalker's dread ambusher ability, which is an attack action thing. I figured for most Gloom Stalkers, a likely opener would be bonus action hunter's mark and two attacks, one of which hopefully adds a d8 to it alongside the hunter's mark damage.
When you get to 5, silence can be nice for jumping casters because like fog cloud there is no save - but it would make you unable to cast booming blade in its area. You may find by the time you get them, the aoe type rangers spells are underwhelming damage - they're borderline even single class - so I think some of the utility spells play better. Pass without trace, e.g. is amazing if you're in a party with heavily armored people. Disadvantage at stealth is less punitive with a +10. Healing spirit, depending on your party, could work if you're ditching hunter's mark and not dual-wielding. You can toss some healing every one of your turns.
Spike Growth is also amazing, especially if you can set it up in advance and use the battlefield to force people to move through it. If you're picking up thornwhip, you can have fun that way too.
EDIT: On the rogue defense side, uncanny dodge is also super.
You're right - I didn't think about booming blade vs attacks and stacking sneak attack along with that because I was thinking about the Gloom Stalker's dread ambusher ability, which is an attack action thing. I figured for most Gloom Stalkers, a likely opener would be bonus action hunter's mark and two attacks, one of which hopefully adds a d8 to it alongside the hunter's mark damage.
I found that 40ft move speed often isn't enough when you're a melee damage dealer going before the enemy goes during the first round of combat. It's probably related a lot to the DM and the campaign, but I found that far too often I wouldn't get to take advantage of the Gloom Stalker's extra attack during the first round of combat because I couldn't get close enough to attack anyone with my sword (this was rather frustrating). Getting the Cunning Action from Rogue really helped diminish that problem - being able to Bonus Action Dash and move 80ft and still get to attack twice was a big upgrade over having just 40ft movement. I was also quite happy to stop casting Hunter's Mark on round 1, because I was finding that having +1 to Con Saves without War Caster wasn't doing a very good job keeping Hunter's Mark up.
For ranged Gloom Stalkers, Hunter's Mark on round 1 makes a lot more sense than it does for my character.
I also know that I am very cautious when it comes to expending spell slots, it's just part of my personality. My personality is also why I like AC and proficiencies in saving throws so much. And it's a big reason why I often save my spell slots for Cure Wounds (and at next level, Shield) instead of using them on Hunter's Mark. Once I get the option to cast Shield as a reaction, I know that I'm just never going to use Hunter's Mark anymore. Especially with the Cunning Action trio of options for my Bonus Action.
Pass Without Trace would be interesting for my group since we don't have anyone in heavy armor - we could be a very stealthy group with that spell.
I had considered Spike Growth as an option, but we've mostly been fighting in larger open areas instead of tight quarters with choke points, so I think that would make more sense in a different campaign. Also, we don't have anyone right now with forced movement type abilities.
Silence isn't appealing because it would keep me from casting Shield. If I have extra attack, it's not a big problem if I can't cast Booming Blade, but not being able to cast Shield would really bother me. Against casters, it's more likely that saving throws will be important instead of AC, so I guess that's actually not as big of a problem. In this campaign we're facing quite a few Giants, and we've not run into very many casters so far. I'm really glad you suggested it as an option, it's definitely a spell that has great utility for a tank and isn't affected by my somewhat low Wisdom score of 14. Web is probably our Wizard's favorite spell, and Silence would combo very very well with Web. So I'll definitely consider the spell, even though we're not facing very many casters so far in the campaign.
I do like Fog Cloud quite a bit because it scales up very nicely in a level 2 spell slot, and because as you pointed out, there's no saving throw for it.
Healing Spirit is a very powerful spell and it's a very attractive spell to take (especially because I don't really use Hunter's Mark much), but my group has talked about house ruling the spell to make it a bit weaker (we haven't had to do it yet because no one in either of the two campaigns we're doing right now has the spell, and the Moon Druid in one of the campaigns we already completed didn't use it very often).
Both Silence and Spike Growth seem like they would be better options in a different campaign than this one. But since I have the healer role, Healing Spirit and Lesser Restoration might be the options that make the most sense for me. The Hexblade Warlock did multi-class into Bard, so I'm finally no longer the only healer.
What i your full stat array, race etc?
anyhow, assassin is a no-go as a tank. It only makes tou epic in surprise round. Arcane Trickster is probably fine, I just really think it is wrong to Compare two attacks to one boomolg blade. Extra attack will be better pretty much all the time.
I dont see them as opposites though, you still benefit greatly from booming blade on opportunity attacks with battle caster. Try doing some average damage calculations with one attack vs two. Two attacks is the best ability there is. More so as a rogue.
Generally if the first attack hits, do something else with your bonus action.
I've got 16 Dex, 14 Wisdom, 13 Constitution (likely doing Resilient Constitution at level 8), 10 Intelligence, 10 Strength, 8 Charisma. We rolled for stats, and I rolled slightly worse than the standard array. I'm a Human Folk Hero with the Medium Armor Master Feat. I'm proficient in Animal Handling, Insight, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival. When I multi-class Rogue, I will take proficiency in Sleight of Hand and expertise in Stealth and Perception. I'm also proficient in Land Vehicles and Cartographer's Tools. I know Common, Elvish, and Draconic. My favored enemy is Dragons and my favored terrain is Mountains.
I did the math, and if the target moves, Booming Blade is better than extra attack. It also depends on your chance to hit, though. With a low enough chance to hit, the extra attack's second chance to get Sneak Attack damage helps out a lot. Getting Booming Blade opportunity attacks is a huge huge damage boost if the enemies are indeed running away from me. Getting advantage on attacks because we're fighting in total darkness brings the chance to miss down low enough that extra attack doesn't help as much. But without advantage it's very different.
Assassin would be for establishing myself as a threat and getting enemies to focus on me because of the extreme amount of damage I do right at the start. Our DM makes damage done a huge factor when determining who the enemies are going to attack (I think this is fairly common among DMs).
I'm a Ranger 3 Rogue 2 now, and still planning on doing Arcane Trickster at next level, then doing a 4th level in Ranger for War Caster (and doubling my spell slots for casting Shield 6x per day), and then a 4th level in Rogue for Resilient Constitution or Spell Sniper.
I'm considering doing the Spell Sniper feat with Thorn Whip (because it's a Druid spell, thus I get a +2 from Wisdom instead of a +0 from intelligence for a Wizard spell or a -1 from Charisma for a Bard/Sorcerer/Warlock spell). Also, it lets me pull an enemy towards me, which would be very useful as a tank. But also for another unique part of the feat, that Booming Blade will instead become 10ft range, which means I could switch out my Short Sword for a Whip, and start doing Booming Blade on my 10ft reach melee attacks with a whip (that still can get sneak attack because it's a finesse weapon).
I'm already trying to do something unique instead of min-maxing (I know that a Ranger-Rogue multi-class isn't the optimal tank), but I'm trying to make sure that I'm still useful enough in combat. Is the Spell Sniper Feat a reasonable choice given what I want to do with it, or would it not make sense given that I'm a tanky Ranger-Rogue?
Given what you want to do. It’s fairly genius.
Wait. 1d8 averages 4.5. 2d8 averages 9. What am I missing?
You are correct, 9 it is
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Yeah, sorry. I need to get more sleep before maths. :P
I think you have to go to 5 ranger for two attacks. Honestly, I’m playing a half-orc strength ranger who is something of a tank as well. Well, he is level 2. My plan is to take him to 7 ranger and then maybe 8 for the second ability score increase. My philosophy vis a vis tanking is there is something to the idea that when things die they do less damage.
The reason is the ranger gets two attacks at 5 and then some defensive abilities in that level range, including proficiency in wisdom saves from gloom stalker. That may keep you in the game, tanking, if you’re not held or charmed or something.
I think rather than feats you might just increase the ability score that will improve your hit rate and damage - Dex in your case. Imagine if you had spent that ability score increase from variant human on +2 dex and the one you get at 4th Ranger. So you are 6th level, Ranger 4 / Rogue 2 or even 4/3 with your shield spell. Then you would have 20 AC in studded leather and shield (+2 studded + 5 dex +1 defensive style +2 shield) and more if your shield or armor were magic. Plus you would be doing 10% more damage than you are now simply by virtue of hitting 10% more of the time, not to mention the +2 damage from having 20 dex vs just 16.
Keep in mind you will need warcaster to cast shield with the sword and board in your hand.
So, really, you paid a heavy cost for a feat that doesn’t give you back very much given your dex. Since that is your primary attribute, you will eventually be raising it beyond even the cap afforded to you by medium armor master. The feat will become sort of obsolete as soon as you raise your dex high enough. I’m not saying it’s bad, just giving some feedback on how I see it. I know it’s your concept, etc.
The TLDR is - the best way to compel things to hit you will increase your chance to hit and your damage - increase your dex. I would ask your GM if he would let you swap medium armor master for warcaster and increase your dex with the next attribute increase.
Variant Human gets a feat, not an ASI, so you can't choose +2 Dex as your "feat". It would make Variant Human pretty OP to allow them to choose an ASI at level 1, allowing them to get +3 to a stat of their choice and +1 to a second stat. No race in the game gets +3 to a stat, and to allow Variant Human to get +3 to a stat of their choice would be pretty ridiculous. I doubt that even your game would allow that.
You're comparing 20 Dex to 16 Dex + Medium Armor Master, which means comparing two ASIs to one feat. That's not a fair comparison at all (especially since choosing a +2 Dex ASI at level 1 as variant human isn't an option in my game or probably in anybody's game). Obviously I prefer 20 Dex to having 16 Dex + Medium Armor Master. But that's comparing Apples to Oranges.
The campaign is going to finish around level 12, we're not going all the way out to level 20. And because my Constitution score is odd, I do plan on taking Resilient Constitution. So the most my Dexterity is going to be is 18, and that's only going to be once I reach level 12, which might be our final level of the campaign. It'll be 16 Dexterity for the first 11 levels, which means that the Medium Armor Master feat gives me +2 AC for 11 levels, which is probably 80-90% of the campaign (and because I need to take war caster as my first feat, I wouldn't have the opportunity to choose +2 Dex and get +1 AC until level 8). And it gives me the flexibility to choose a feat like Spell Sniper or Mage Slayer or something like that as my "capstone" for the final level of the campaign.
I did consider taking Resilient Constitution as my starting feat, with Warcaster as my second feat at level 7. That would have left me with 16 Dex and 18 AC with Studded Leather until level 8, when it would go up to 18 Dex and 19 AC. And I would have been able to get to 20 Dex at level 12, which is about the time the campaign is going to end. Instead, I choose Medium Armor Master which gave me +2 AC for the first 7 levels, at the cost of 1 HP per level and not having proficiency in Constitution Saving throws. Only once I reached level 8 would I be able to even get to 19 AC (unless I find magic items to boost my AC) if I hadn't chosen Medium Armor Master. But just as expected, AC has been much more important than Constitution Saves at lower levels.
I chose Medium Armor Master knowing that the campaign was going to end around level 12. If my goal was to make a great character at level 12, without caring about how strong he was in the first 7 levels, I would have built my character differently. But that wasn't my goal. Heck, my character wasn't even guaranteed to make it to level 8. He could have been killed early on and I would be re-rolling a new character. If my goal was to have a powerful character at level 12, I would not have chosen the feat. But I care about the path to level 12 more than I care about being powerful for the last level of the campaign.
I consider +2 AC for the first 7 levels to be a pretty big bonus (and +1 AC for the next 4 levels). You think that I don't get very much from the feat, but I think +2 AC for the first 7 levels is pretty big. That's a pretty big portion of the campaign.
If I can buy Half Plate, that gives me +1 AC. I don't even need to find Magic Armor to get +1 AC. And if I can find magic Half Plate, that's even better. Studded Leather + 20 Dex is still 1 AC less than Half Plate with 16 Dex. We're only at level 6 right now, but it looks like I'll have the money to buy Half Plate by the time we reach level 8. Since I would only have been able to get to 18 Dex at level 8 anyways, that means that buying Half Plate at level 8 means that my feat will end up giving me +2 AC all the way until level 12.
In other words, the feat gives me +2 AC for the first 11 levels of a 12 level campaign. And you say the feat isn't giving me much? C'mon man, don't be a fool.
Getting extra attack from Ranger isn't really a damage increase. I've got Booming Blade, and you can't use that in combination with extra attack (although maybe your game is different, since you "seem" to allow a variant human to take a +2 Dex ASI in place of taking a feat at level 1). The party has 3 ranged people, plus a Rogue and a Monk, so we're a very mobile party. It's a hassle for our DM, but we don't like to stay in one place when fighting. Since reaching level 5, I've been using my bonus action for cunning action most of the time. I'm mostly using my spell slots for Cure Wounds and I'll start using the spell slots for [spell[Shield[/spell] at the next level when I get warcaster, so I'm not really using Hunter's Mark - I plan on swapping it out for Fog Cloud next level. And because we're so mobile, I'm expecting the second part of Booming Blade to trigger quite often (I haven't had much chance to use it yet because we just got to level 6).
But it's important to understand what you're comparing Extra Attack to. Obviously, Ranger 8 Rogue 4 does more damage than Ranger 4 Rogue 4. But again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Instead, you should compare it to Ranger 4 Rogue 8.
If you want to talk about a damage increase, Shadow Blade is a damage increase. As are extra dice for Sneak Attack.
If I go Ranger 8 Rogue 4, I don't get Shadow Blade and I only get 2D6 Sneak attack. And yes, I get extra attack at level 9 instead of waiting until level 11 for Shadow Blade. But I have to choose between Extra Attack and Booming Blade, I can't do both. Extra Attack gives a second chance to land Sneak Attack, but it can't give it twice in one turn.
On the other hand, If I go Ranger 4 Rogue 8, I get Shadow Blade and 4D6 Sneak Attack. I don't get proficiency in Wisdom Saving Throws, but I get Uncanny Dodge and Evasion instead. Proficiency is Wisdom Saving throws is great, but I think I prefer Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. Especially since we're fighting a lot of Giants that hit really hard, so having Uncanny Dodge is going to come in very handy, whereas proficiency is Wisdom Saving throws will be less important. I can get 4D6 Sneak Attack twice per round if I do an opportunity attack. Going Ranger 4 Rogue 8 makes my opportunity attacks do more damage, whereas Ranger 8 Rogue 4 does not do that.
TLDR: When you're making comparisons, please make appropriate comparisons. Stop comparing Apples to Oranges.
Here is the math on Extra Attack. Comparing Apples to Apples. I'm using a Short Sword, and not using Hunter's Mark. I'll include the modifications for Gloomstalker's extra attack and Rogue's potential improved opportunity attackd at the end.
Ranger 5 Rogue 4
Does 1D6+3 damage on each attack, plus 2D6 Sneak Attack damage once if either attack hits. If both attacks land and aren't crits, the average damage is 20.
Ranger 4 Rogue 5
Does 1D6+3+1D8 damage on one attack, plus 3D6 Sneak Attack damage if the attack hits. If the attack hits and isn't a crit, the average damage is 21.5. if the target moves, it takes another 2D8 damage (average of 9).
If you drop the chance to hit to 75%, the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 drops to 16.3125 average damage, and the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 drops to 16.125 average damage. So if the target moves just once every 48 times, the extra 2D8 damage evens it out.
If you drop the chance to hit down to 50%, the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 does 11.75 average damage, while the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 does 10.75 average damage. So now the target needs to move once every 9 times for the additional 2D8 damage to even it out.
The Ranger 4 Rogue 5's average damage is falling faster than the Ranger 5 Rogue 4's average damage is falling because of the two opportunities the Ranger 5 Rogue 4 gets for Sneak Attack each turn.
As for the Gloomstalker extra attack on round 1, this adds another 6.5 average damage, and it causes the average Sneak Attack damage on round 1 to fall even slower.
On the other hand, the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 does an extra 1D6 Sneak Attack on many of it's opportunity attacks, and very likely does add on the additional 2D8 damage for a voluntarily moving target both on its initial attack AND on the opportunity attack. Often 4D8 extra damage if a target really wants to get away and doesn't disengage. In other words, a fantastic crowd control ability that you wouldn't get if you're not using Booming Blade.
A Ranger 7 Rogue 4 does basically the same damage as a Ranger 5 Rogue 4. On the other hand, a Ranger 4 Rogue 7 does an additional 1D6 Sneak Attack damage, an additional 1D8 initial damage, and a possible additional 1D8 damage if the target moves, when compared to the Ranger 4 Rogue 5. Level 11 provides a huge huge boost to the Ranger 4 Rogue 7 that uses Booming Blade, and no damage boost at all to the Ranger 7 Rogue 4 that relies on Extra Attack instead of Booming Blade.
And that's not even including the damage boost and chance to hit boost it would get for using Shadow Blade.
So please stop making the claim that picking up Extra Attack from Ranger level 5 is essential. It is not.
With no Sneak Attack, the math is extremely simple.
Ranger 5 Rogue 4 gets 1D6+3 twice, for 13 average. Ranger 7 Rogue 4 gets 1D6+3 twice, for 13 average. Ranger 4 Rogue 5 gets 1D6+3+1D8 for 11 average, plus 2D8 if the target moves. The target has to move 2 out of every 9 times for the Ranger 4 Rogue 5 to keep up in this situation. Ranger 4 Rogue 7 gets 1D6+3+2D8 for 15.5 average, plus 3D8 if the target moves, and it's ahead in damage even if the target never moves.
I've never made a variant human pc tbh so I just guessed they were able to do that.
You're right re: 20 dex vs MAM isn't a fair comparison, though. I see what you mean.
I think you've got it all figured out. I just think when you get higher level, having wisdom saves and a higher to-hit stat might enable you to do more damage and tank better.
" Variant Human gets a feat, not an ASI, so you can't choose +2 Dex as your "feat". It would make Variant Human pretty OP to allow them to choose an ASI at level 1, allowing them to get +3 to a stat of their choice and +1 to a second stat. No race in the game gets +3 to a stat, and to allow Variant Human to get +3 to a stat of their choice would be pretty ridiculous. I doubt that even your game would allow that. "
I'm not advocating for it, but just theorycrafting. If they are equivalent at level 4 and can be freely substituted, how are they not at level 1? Is it just that having +1 more to hit or to ac or hp would destroy the game? I have a character in a game with rolled stats that started with an 18 in a score. It didn't seem broken to me.
Another version of the same question - if it's so powerful at level 1, what causes it to drop to equivalence at level 4? Maybe it's better to have the +1 to a modifier at more levels than just 1st.
Because I'm multi-classing, and I've taken 3 levels in Ranger, and then 3 levels in Rogue, I still haven't had a chance to take a feat or ASI yet despite being at level 6. Unfortunately, neither Ranger or Rogue starts off with spellcasting, so taking War Caster as my initial feat wasn't an option, but having the ability to cast Booming Blade or Shield as reactions is pretty key to my build, so that has to be the first feat/ASI that I take.
Variant Human is more of a race for people doing a build that is built around feats, it's not as much of a race for the builds that are really focused on getting their main stat to 20 ASAP. Humans already have an extreme amount of flexibility, so making them the top race in the game for people whose goal is to get their main stat to 20 ASAP would be overkill. That's why I think it's important that Variant Humans not be granted the ability to start off the game with +3 in a stat and to get to +5 in that stat at level 4.
My hope before rolling the character was to roll a 16+ and play a Wood Elf Ranger and start off with 18 Dex, or to do a High Elf Fighter and start off with 18 Dex, and use one of those two classes as a way to get the Defense Fighting Style and ability to use Shields before going down the Arcane Trickster path.
But my top roll was a 15, so I had to adjust. Initially, my plan was to take Resilient Constitution as my feat, which would help me to use Hunter's Mark despite being a tanky melee character. Especially since I was going to have to start off with a 13 in Constitution unless I took Resilient Constitution. I have tried using Hunter's Mark a bit so far, and I don't like it. Trying to use it as a melee character without war caster and just +1 to Con Saves is frustrating. Trust me, the level 7 proficiency in Wisdom Saves that Gloom Stalker gets is something really intriguing. I really love proficiency in saving throws and I really love AC. When I did the numbers, I realized that choosing Medium Armor Master would get me +2 AC all the way until level 12 (because of the need to select War Caster for my first feat/ASI at level 7). And I do love having high AC, especially at lower levels where saving throws are less frequent and where the proficiency bonus is smaller.
So I was considering the two options of taking Resilient Con at 1, War Caster at 7, Dex at 8, and Dex at 12, and using Studded Leather, and the other option of choosing Medium Armor Master at 1, War Caster at 7, Resilient Con at 8, purchasing a half plate around level 8, and then having the freedom at level 12 to choose a more fun feat or to just choose Dex. If I'm going for the more powerful level 12 character, I think Resilient Con at 1 and maxing out Dex at level 12 is the better option. But having 20 AC at level 2 and having +2 AC for the first 11 levels appealed more to me because it'll be a long time getting all the way to level 12. I didn't really give serious thought to any paths other than those two once I found out that my top score was just a 15 before racial modifiers. But that's all pretty much irrelevant now because I'm certainly not going to ask my DM to let me change which feat I chose 6 levels ago, especially asking to change it to a feat that I didn't meet the prerequisite for at the time.
I do really like the Gloom Stalker's proficiency in Wisdom Saves at level 7, and I do think it's a more useful ability than the Rogue's also really awesome level 7 ability of Evasion. Evasion on a high Dex character with proficiency in Dex Saves is certainly a wonderful tanking ability. Not as great as proficiency in Wisdom Saves, but still a very very good ability. No one needs to sell me on how awesome the Gloom Stalker level 7 ability is. What I need people to sell me on is how to use the Ranger level 2 spells. That's really the only way to convince me to go Ranger 8 Rogue 4 instead of Ranger 4 Rogue 8.
For damage, once Booming Blade increases in power at level 11, it blows past the Ranger's extra attack, especially if I'm adding more Sneak Attack dice. If I want more damage at level 11+, I'm going Ranger 4 Rogue 7. Especially with Shadow Blade making it much easier to generate Sneak Attack.
Rogues getting expertise in two more stats at level 6 is much better than Rangers getting another favored enemy and favored terrain at level 6. And the Rogue 5th level Uncanny Dodge and 7th level Evasion abilities are both great for tanking, and together they're about even with having proficiency in Wisdom Saves from Gloom Stalker at level 7. Both paths have pretty comparable tanking abilities.
The only area where Ranger to level 8 wins out is in the spell slots and spells available. And they do have a big advantage in that area because their spells are more focused on battlefield control and utility, whereas Arcane Trickster spells are mostly just Enchantment and Illusion spells. I don't know anything about how to use Ranger level 2 spells (or Ranger level 1 spells for that matter, because I've mostly been doing Cure Wounds or doing frustrating attempts to use Hunter's Mark as a tank without war caster and only +1 to Con Saves).
The Spell Sniper Feat for a 60ft Thorn Whip and 10ft Booming Blade is an interesting idea I had, but I don't know if I would do that at level 12. I actually used that idea for another character in the other campaign that my group is doing right now, so that decreases my interest in doing that in this campaign.
I still have some time to figure out what spell change I want to make when I take my 4th level in Ranger. Right now I'm leaning towards swapping out Goodberry or Hunter's Mark for Fog Cloud.
I'm mostly looking for advice on Ranger spells and battle tactics for Ranger, and not for people to keep telling me that I need Extra Attack even though Booming Blade will blow it out of the water once I reach level 11 and is still about even with it before level 11, or people questioning my decision to use the rarely used feat of Medium Armor Master.
I really like the depth of thought you've put in. It gives you a lot to think about. To be honest, I've always had a bit of FOMO in terms of multiclassing, but I see how your ideas work together pretty well.
You're right - I didn't think about booming blade vs attacks and stacking sneak attack along with that because I was thinking about the Gloom Stalker's dread ambusher ability, which is an attack action thing. I figured for most Gloom Stalkers, a likely opener would be bonus action hunter's mark and two attacks, one of which hopefully adds a d8 to it alongside the hunter's mark damage.
When you get to 5, silence can be nice for jumping casters because like fog cloud there is no save - but it would make you unable to cast booming blade in its area. You may find by the time you get them, the aoe type rangers spells are underwhelming damage - they're borderline even single class - so I think some of the utility spells play better. Pass without trace, e.g. is amazing if you're in a party with heavily armored people. Disadvantage at stealth is less punitive with a +10. Healing spirit, depending on your party, could work if you're ditching hunter's mark and not dual-wielding. You can toss some healing every one of your turns.
Spike Growth is also amazing, especially if you can set it up in advance and use the battlefield to force people to move through it. If you're picking up thornwhip, you can have fun that way too.
EDIT: On the rogue defense side, uncanny dodge is also super.
I found that 40ft move speed often isn't enough when you're a melee damage dealer going before the enemy goes during the first round of combat. It's probably related a lot to the DM and the campaign, but I found that far too often I wouldn't get to take advantage of the Gloom Stalker's extra attack during the first round of combat because I couldn't get close enough to attack anyone with my sword (this was rather frustrating). Getting the Cunning Action from Rogue really helped diminish that problem - being able to Bonus Action Dash and move 80ft and still get to attack twice was a big upgrade over having just 40ft movement. I was also quite happy to stop casting Hunter's Mark on round 1, because I was finding that having +1 to Con Saves without War Caster wasn't doing a very good job keeping Hunter's Mark up.
For ranged Gloom Stalkers, Hunter's Mark on round 1 makes a lot more sense than it does for my character.
I also know that I am very cautious when it comes to expending spell slots, it's just part of my personality. My personality is also why I like AC and proficiencies in saving throws so much. And it's a big reason why I often save my spell slots for Cure Wounds (and at next level, Shield) instead of using them on Hunter's Mark. Once I get the option to cast Shield as a reaction, I know that I'm just never going to use Hunter's Mark anymore. Especially with the Cunning Action trio of options for my Bonus Action.
Pass Without Trace would be interesting for my group since we don't have anyone in heavy armor - we could be a very stealthy group with that spell.
I had considered Spike Growth as an option, but we've mostly been fighting in larger open areas instead of tight quarters with choke points, so I think that would make more sense in a different campaign. Also, we don't have anyone right now with forced movement type abilities.
Silence isn't appealing because it would keep me from casting Shield. If I have extra attack, it's not a big problem if I can't cast Booming Blade, but not being able to cast Shield would really bother me. Against casters, it's more likely that saving throws will be important instead of AC, so I guess that's actually not as big of a problem. In this campaign we're facing quite a few Giants, and we've not run into very many casters so far. I'm really glad you suggested it as an option, it's definitely a spell that has great utility for a tank and isn't affected by my somewhat low Wisdom score of 14. Web is probably our Wizard's favorite spell, and Silence would combo very very well with Web. So I'll definitely consider the spell, even though we're not facing very many casters so far in the campaign.
I do like Fog Cloud quite a bit because it scales up very nicely in a level 2 spell slot, and because as you pointed out, there's no saving throw for it.
Healing Spirit is a very powerful spell and it's a very attractive spell to take (especially because I don't really use Hunter's Mark much), but my group has talked about house ruling the spell to make it a bit weaker (we haven't had to do it yet because no one in either of the two campaigns we're doing right now has the spell, and the Moon Druid in one of the campaigns we already completed didn't use it very often).
Both Silence and Spike Growth seem like they would be better options in a different campaign than this one. But since I have the healer role, Healing Spirit and Lesser Restoration might be the options that make the most sense for me. The Hexblade Warlock did multi-class into Bard, so I'm finally no longer the only healer.
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