Hey folks! I am what I consider a "seasoned" D&D player, but my seasoning happened 20+ years ago with 2nd Edition and a little later with twinking characters for Neverwinter Nights (which I believe was 3.5.) I'm looking for some insight specifically with the 5e metagame and specifically for use in Adventurer's League games where the DM will be, mostly, following scripted stories and will only have so much leeway to "customize" things to the characters in front of them.
I have envisioned and created a Ranger which, with AL, will be starting at level 1. My current plan is to go to Ranger 5, then start my 5 level dip in to Rogue before going back to Ranger for the rest of the character's useful lifespan. The character will be archery focused, get me 3d6 sneak attack bonus (which based on my interpretation of the RAW I should be able to use on most attacks), a passive damage bonus from one of two ranger archetypes, and a fair amount of non-combat utility along with some healing thrown in for good measure. I do, however, have a couple of questions that only experience that I don't have can really answer for me so I'm hoping to get some help.
1) I will be taking the "Scout" (XGE) archetype for Rogue when I get to it... that gives me a free survival proficiency but it won't be until character level 8. How often does survival actually come up during Adventurer's League type play (published adventures only)? Can I afford to not take it as one of my starting Ranger proficiencies so I can get the freebie, or should I just suck it up and take the free expertise from the Scout subclass when I get to it?
2) This one's more of a discussion than a black and white question, but here goes: Horizon Walker vs Monster Slayer. I currently have a reference to "fiend" in the backstory, and prefer the "flavor" of Horizon Walker but I could just as easily erase "fiend" and insert "monster" there based on the following hinge point:
Horizon Walker's Planar Warrior converts one Attack per turn's damage to Force and adds 1d8 to it (this grows to 2d8 eventually, but that won't be until character level 16 for me.. not a consideration.) Combined with sneak attack damage, etc, this could be devastating. The "downsides" are that the range is limited to 30' and it costs a Bonus Action every turn. The range limitation doesn't bother me that much, historically, most encounters wind up at melee range relatively quick anyway and at higher levels I will have a lot of mobility options. The real kicker is the Bonus Action, each turn I will need to make a decision as to whether to use this ability (which I want to use as often as possible) or not, and if so, forego other possible bonuses.
Monster Slayer's Slayer's Prey ability uses a bonus action once to "target" a creature and is free once per turn until you need to switch creatures again, but, it only adds a flat 1d6 to the damage. From where I sit, the Horizon Walker's ability is clearly superior, but I'm not sure how often I might regret not having a Bonus Action for something else?
3) Ability Scores, Feats and Saves: With Wood Elf (not really up for debate because of roleplay vs roll play) I wound up with 10 16 14 14 12 10 starting stats. The "plan" was snagging +2 dex at level 4 and 9 (Rogue 4) and then, if the character lives that long and is still gaining enough XP to advance, bumping CON or something later. In reading though it sounds like a lot of people emphasize the importance of the CON save so I was thinking about maybe dropping CHA to 8 (the character really shouldn't be likable anyway) and bumping CON to 15, then taking Resiliant: CON at 4, then working on DEX from there. Yes, I lose +1 initiative, attack and damage for another 4 levels that way... but I suspect that the consequences of a failed CON save could be more dire than the occasional miss (I honestly don't recall missing by 1 more than a handful of times in hundreds of hours of 2nd Ed :P) Thoughts?
4) Spells: The spell choices seem fairly obvious to me. I'm taking Goodberry for flavor and because there's that one guy that DMs sometimes that looks at your character sheet to see if you have rations written down (hell, I've done it when DMing :P) Hunter's Mark is a gimme, Cure Wounds, also, because I feel like i have to. Healing Spirit seems to provide a ridiculous amount of healing, though I suspect it would be used mostly out of combat. Conjure Barrage ... flavor and some otherwise lacking AOE. The rest I figured would probably be better handled by other casters, but I'd appreciate advice here as well.
5) Proficiencies, again: I will wind up with Acrobatics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Persuasion (based on a background choice that's really not up for debate, roleplay vs roll play and all), Stealth, Survival and (depending on the answer to #1) maybe Athletics with expertise in Investigation, Perception, Nature and Survival by level 10. I can swap the expertise in Investigation and Perception as they were chosen at Rogue 1. I can, of course, think of a million situations where other proficiencies may be useful, but these seem "safe." Anything huge I'm missing?
I appreciate any time and energy people put in to helping me out. This is all crap I'm sure I'll know inside and out a year from now, but since we didn't have a lot of web sites I could have thousands of people answer questions on during my last foray in to D&D I figured I'd take advantage of technology and shorten the learning curve a bit!
Hmm ok let me see about your class choice and such. As a general rule of thumb people don't suggest for martial classes dipping more than 1-3 levels in other martial classes but lets see what do we have here.
1) almost for all martial classes (except rogue) you want to get extra attack as soon as possible which means don't dip until you are level 5 which you intend to anyway so you are good at there.
2) From what I understand you want 3d6 sneak attack damage more than uncanny dodge at level 5 rogue. But this brings a problem with it. You lose one ability score increase and if your DM allows a potential feat IMHO 1d6 more damage does not worth that lost ability score increase than again none of the printed adventures last to level 20 so it might not be a big problem for your aim.
3) You want horizon walker for flavor and extra 1d8 damage but hunter archtype with colossus slayer can do that without using a bonus action. Ofcourse damage does not turn to force but i am not sure if that worth the bonus action cost. Monster slayer is a little bit better since you target just once so you won't waste your other bonus actions but it is 1d6. If it is flavor you are after hunter might be better among three archtypes.
4) In this edition attack bonus does not increase that much so whenever you can get it you should get it. In second edition a martial class was getting an attack bonus every level in 5e it is same for everyone on top of that magic items are really rare and won't go higher than +3 which means you will be getting attack bonus from magic items at a much lower rate as well. In 2ed +1 attack bonus was not a big deal because there were plenty ways to get it. In 5e that +1 might be difference between life and death.
Can't say anything for skills or spells though since they are mostly flavor for me at least but you seem to list all the good starting spells so I think you are good.
Note: Remember you need Wisdom and Dex of 13+ to multiclass in and out of Rogue and Ranger.
If you are going to go Rogue: Scout, I'd recommend taking that first. It lets you maximize your skill potential. It seems like you want to have a lot of skill diversity, like training in Persuade although you also mentioned him as not very likeable.
Yes, you'll be pushing your Extra Attack feature back, but Sneak Attack and Ranger damage will be make up for it.
The one thing I hate about the Rogue: Scout is it's optimized to NOT be proficient in Nature or Survival because you get proficiency at 3rd level AND Expertise. So, you have to "grow" into those skills. If you start out as Rogue you'll be proficient in Dex and Int Saves.
As for "how useful is Survival" That depends on your GM and your Setting. It's like asking how useful is the Ranger's exploration power: 90% of the time not at all, 10% of the time critically important. I'm playing in Tomb of Annihilation, which is a jungle horror survival game. Rangers are baller there.
I love Skills in the game and if you start out as an Elf (wood) and start out as Rogue and become a Scout. By 4th-5th level if you multiclass into Ranger then you'll be proficient with:
Perception (elf)
Survival w/ Expertise (Scout)
Nature w/ Expertise (Scout)
plus 4 skills from the Rogue list
plus 1 skill from the Ranger list
plus 2 skills from your Background
2 of those skills also have Expertise from Rogue 1 (not a skill from Ranger list)
You'd have 10 different skills and Expertise in 4 of them!
You can also flavor your progression in that you start out as a Rogue and becoming a Scout is how you train into Ranger.
A bonus is that as an Elf you have training in Longbow, so you'll always be dealing 1d8 damage and with the Rogue Disengage you'll be very hard to pin down, so you won't easily be caught in melee.
For Feats take what you like. I do recommend looking at Elven Accuracy from XgtE. IF you had Advantage, then it gives you a reroll, so you'll almost never miss.
Sharpshooter also let's you shoot from crazy long range without DisAdv. It lets you ignore cover... And take a penalty for a hefty damage boost.
As with Rogue and Wood Elf you can hide even with only "light cover".
Action: Attack from range with longbow and Advantage. You get a reroll so you'll be rolling 3d20 for the attack. Move, and Bonus Action: Hide. If someone engages you in melee, then use the Bonus Action to Disengage.
Bumping a dead topic. But as someone playing a level 11 monster slayer and plans to do 4-5 levels into scout rogue. I have to say the monster slayer adds a lot to combat. Being able to do pretty decent damage every turn with two attacks. Hunters mark and prey up is nice. Learning enemy stats is useful for tougher enemies too. Plus a free counterspell once per rest is super powerful. I’m sword and board for it. So archery may vary a bit. But I love my monster slayer.
i like your ideas but i would start as the rogue and get all those skills they at 2 go Ranger. I currently play a level 4 Rogue Scout 1Ranger. Looking for Gloomstalker. Our DM likes to attack us at night. This may change that. And using hand crossbow. Will probably take 2 levels of fighter to get action surge. but thats out to about level 10. Also went variant human so at 5th level i have two fiets.. Crossbow master and sharpshooter.
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Hey folks! I am what I consider a "seasoned" D&D player, but my seasoning happened 20+ years ago with 2nd Edition and a little later with twinking characters for Neverwinter Nights (which I believe was 3.5.) I'm looking for some insight specifically with the 5e metagame and specifically for use in Adventurer's League games where the DM will be, mostly, following scripted stories and will only have so much leeway to "customize" things to the characters in front of them.
I have envisioned and created a Ranger which, with AL, will be starting at level 1. My current plan is to go to Ranger 5, then start my 5 level dip in to Rogue before going back to Ranger for the rest of the character's useful lifespan. The character will be archery focused, get me 3d6 sneak attack bonus (which based on my interpretation of the RAW I should be able to use on most attacks), a passive damage bonus from one of two ranger archetypes, and a fair amount of non-combat utility along with some healing thrown in for good measure. I do, however, have a couple of questions that only experience that I don't have can really answer for me so I'm hoping to get some help.
1) I will be taking the "Scout" (XGE) archetype for Rogue when I get to it... that gives me a free survival proficiency but it won't be until character level 8. How often does survival actually come up during Adventurer's League type play (published adventures only)? Can I afford to not take it as one of my starting Ranger proficiencies so I can get the freebie, or should I just suck it up and take the free expertise from the Scout subclass when I get to it?
2) This one's more of a discussion than a black and white question, but here goes: Horizon Walker vs Monster Slayer. I currently have a reference to "fiend" in the backstory, and prefer the "flavor" of Horizon Walker but I could just as easily erase "fiend" and insert "monster" there based on the following hinge point:
Horizon Walker's Planar Warrior converts one Attack per turn's damage to Force and adds 1d8 to it (this grows to 2d8 eventually, but that won't be until character level 16 for me.. not a consideration.) Combined with sneak attack damage, etc, this could be devastating. The "downsides" are that the range is limited to 30' and it costs a Bonus Action every turn. The range limitation doesn't bother me that much, historically, most encounters wind up at melee range relatively quick anyway and at higher levels I will have a lot of mobility options. The real kicker is the Bonus Action, each turn I will need to make a decision as to whether to use this ability (which I want to use as often as possible) or not, and if so, forego other possible bonuses.
Monster Slayer's Slayer's Prey ability uses a bonus action once to "target" a creature and is free once per turn until you need to switch creatures again, but, it only adds a flat 1d6 to the damage. From where I sit, the Horizon Walker's ability is clearly superior, but I'm not sure how often I might regret not having a Bonus Action for something else?
3) Ability Scores, Feats and Saves: With Wood Elf (not really up for debate because of roleplay vs roll play) I wound up with 10 16 14 14 12 10 starting stats. The "plan" was snagging +2 dex at level 4 and 9 (Rogue 4) and then, if the character lives that long and is still gaining enough XP to advance, bumping CON or something later. In reading though it sounds like a lot of people emphasize the importance of the CON save so I was thinking about maybe dropping CHA to 8 (the character really shouldn't be likable anyway) and bumping CON to 15, then taking Resiliant: CON at 4, then working on DEX from there. Yes, I lose +1 initiative, attack and damage for another 4 levels that way... but I suspect that the consequences of a failed CON save could be more dire than the occasional miss (I honestly don't recall missing by 1 more than a handful of times in hundreds of hours of 2nd Ed :P) Thoughts?
4) Spells: The spell choices seem fairly obvious to me. I'm taking Goodberry for flavor and because there's that one guy that DMs sometimes that looks at your character sheet to see if you have rations written down (hell, I've done it when DMing :P) Hunter's Mark is a gimme, Cure Wounds, also, because I feel like i have to. Healing Spirit seems to provide a ridiculous amount of healing, though I suspect it would be used mostly out of combat. Conjure Barrage ... flavor and some otherwise lacking AOE. The rest I figured would probably be better handled by other casters, but I'd appreciate advice here as well.
5) Proficiencies, again: I will wind up with Acrobatics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Persuasion (based on a background choice that's really not up for debate, roleplay vs roll play and all), Stealth, Survival and (depending on the answer to #1) maybe Athletics with expertise in Investigation, Perception, Nature and Survival by level 10. I can swap the expertise in Investigation and Perception as they were chosen at Rogue 1. I can, of course, think of a million situations where other proficiencies may be useful, but these seem "safe." Anything huge I'm missing?
I appreciate any time and energy people put in to helping me out. This is all crap I'm sure I'll know inside and out a year from now, but since we didn't have a lot of web sites I could have thousands of people answer questions on during my last foray in to D&D I figured I'd take advantage of technology and shorten the learning curve a bit!
The funny thing about rations is that there aren't any in any starting equipment I've ever come across.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Hmm ok let me see about your class choice and such. As a general rule of thumb people don't suggest for martial classes dipping more than 1-3 levels in other martial classes but lets see what do we have here.
1) almost for all martial classes (except rogue) you want to get extra attack as soon as possible which means don't dip until you are level 5 which you intend to anyway so you are good at there.
2) From what I understand you want 3d6 sneak attack damage more than uncanny dodge at level 5 rogue. But this brings a problem with it. You lose one ability score increase and if your DM allows a potential feat IMHO 1d6 more damage does not worth that lost ability score increase than again none of the printed adventures last to level 20 so it might not be a big problem for your aim.
3) You want horizon walker for flavor and extra 1d8 damage but hunter archtype with colossus slayer can do that without using a bonus action. Ofcourse damage does not turn to force but i am not sure if that worth the bonus action cost. Monster slayer is a little bit better since you target just once so you won't waste your other bonus actions but it is 1d6. If it is flavor you are after hunter might be better among three archtypes.
4) In this edition attack bonus does not increase that much so whenever you can get it you should get it. In second edition a martial class was getting an attack bonus every level in 5e it is same for everyone on top of that magic items are really rare and won't go higher than +3 which means you will be getting attack bonus from magic items at a much lower rate as well. In 2ed +1 attack bonus was not a big deal because there were plenty ways to get it. In 5e that +1 might be difference between life and death.
Can't say anything for skills or spells though since they are mostly flavor for me at least but you seem to list all the good starting spells so I think you are good.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Note: Remember you need Wisdom and Dex of 13+ to multiclass in and out of Rogue and Ranger.
If you are going to go Rogue: Scout, I'd recommend taking that first. It lets you maximize your skill potential. It seems like you want to have a lot of skill diversity, like training in Persuade although you also mentioned him as not very likeable.
Yes, you'll be pushing your Extra Attack feature back, but Sneak Attack and Ranger damage will be make up for it.
The one thing I hate about the Rogue: Scout is it's optimized to NOT be proficient in Nature or Survival because you get proficiency at 3rd level AND Expertise. So, you have to "grow" into those skills.
If you start out as Rogue you'll be proficient in Dex and Int Saves.
As for "how useful is Survival" That depends on your GM and your Setting. It's like asking how useful is the Ranger's exploration power: 90% of the time not at all, 10% of the time critically important. I'm playing in Tomb of Annihilation, which is a jungle horror survival game. Rangers are baller there.
I love Skills in the game and if you start out as an Elf (wood) and start out as Rogue and become a Scout. By 4th-5th level if you multiclass into Ranger then you'll be proficient with:
You'd have 10 different skills and Expertise in 4 of them!
You can also flavor your progression in that you start out as a Rogue and becoming a Scout is how you train into Ranger.
A bonus is that as an Elf you have training in Longbow, so you'll always be dealing 1d8 damage and with the Rogue Disengage you'll be very hard to pin down, so you won't easily be caught in melee.
For Feats take what you like. I do recommend looking at Elven Accuracy from XgtE. IF you had Advantage, then it gives you a reroll, so you'll almost never miss.
Sharpshooter also let's you shoot from crazy long range without DisAdv. It lets you ignore cover... And take a penalty for a hefty damage boost.
As with Rogue and Wood Elf you can hide even with only "light cover".
Action: Attack from range with longbow and Advantage. You get a reroll so you'll be rolling 3d20 for the attack. Move, and Bonus Action: Hide. If someone engages you in melee, then use the Bonus Action to Disengage.
Bumping a dead topic. But as someone playing a level 11 monster slayer and plans to do 4-5 levels into scout rogue. I have to say the monster slayer adds a lot to combat. Being able to do pretty decent damage every turn with two attacks. Hunters mark and prey up is nice. Learning enemy stats is useful for tougher enemies too. Plus a free counterspell once per rest is super powerful. I’m sword and board for it. So archery may vary a bit. But I love my monster slayer.
10 rations and a water skin are in the Explorer's pack :)
i like your ideas but i would start as the rogue and get all those skills they at 2 go Ranger. I currently play a level 4 Rogue Scout 1Ranger. Looking for Gloomstalker. Our DM likes to attack us at night. This may change that. And using hand crossbow. Will probably take 2 levels of fighter to get action surge. but thats out to about level 10. Also went variant human so at 5th level i have two fiets.. Crossbow master and sharpshooter.