Most spells they get will be less damage than the output from Hunters Mark. They do have a lot of concentration spells but they are not ones that are going to compete with Hunters Mark for damage.
If you don't mind not putting out damage in line with other martial class that's fine as you get a lot of utility spells with ranger as well.
Ranger's other spells for damage are not direct damage dealing, they are AoE and situational damage spells. When used to hit a couple of enemies or in their situation, they deal WAY more damage than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark deals (potentially) 7 extra damage a turn.
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
That's because it's a BA to cast.... So you can't do it on the turn you cast it.
Most spells they get will be less damage than the output from Hunters Mark. They do have a lot of concentration spells but they are not ones that are going to compete with Hunters Mark for damage.
If you don't mind not putting out damage in line with other martial class that's fine as you get a lot of utility spells with ranger as well.
Ranger's other spells for damage are not direct damage dealing, they are AoE and situational damage spells. When used to hit a couple of enemies or in their situation, they deal WAY more damage than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark deals (potentially) 7 extra damage a turn.
.... Yes but for an hour. You can maintain a lot of damage in a fight that lasts 5 rounds then have it up for later encounters. If you are thinking you are only getting 7 dmg out if it you aren't using it right.
Most spells they get will be less damage than the output from Hunters Mark. They do have a lot of concentration spells but they are not ones that are going to compete with Hunters Mark for damage.
If you don't mind not putting out damage in line with other martial class that's fine as you get a lot of utility spells with ranger as well.
Ranger's other spells for damage are not direct damage dealing, they are AoE and situational damage spells. When used to hit a couple of enemies or in their situation, they deal WAY more damage than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark deals (potentially) 7 extra damage a turn.
Some of them, like conjure barrage and lightning arrow, deal direct damage and/or indirect damage. But if all you're choosing hunter's mark for is the extra damage, you're ignoring half the spell. The advantage to Wisdom (Perception) and Wisdom (Survival) rolls means they're not likely hiding or escaping. At least, not for long. It's as much for utility and the exploration pillar of the game as it is for combat. And it, arguably, leans more towards the former if it is upcast with higher-level spell slots.
We don't care if we can't switch FF to another enemy after dropping them to 0. It can simply be reapplied after landing a successful hit. And the freed up Bonus Action means something else can be used, instead, and the bonus damage from FF can still apply under the right circumstances.
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
That's because it's a BA to cast.... So you can't do it on the turn you cast it.
You’re not recasting it. It doesn’t have anything to do with the turn you cast it. Hunter’s Mark and Hex both have the same language. “If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.” Every time. Any time. When you reduce a targeted creature to zero hit points who can pick a new target on a later turn.
Most spells they get will be less damage than the output from Hunters Mark. They do have a lot of concentration spells but they are not ones that are going to compete with Hunters Mark for damage.
If you don't mind not putting out damage in line with other martial class that's fine as you get a lot of utility spells with ranger as well.
Ranger's other spells for damage are not direct damage dealing, they are AoE and situational damage spells. When used to hit a couple of enemies or in their situation, they deal WAY more damage than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark deals (potentially) 7 extra damage a turn.
.... Yes but for an hour. You can maintain a lot of damage in a fight that lasts 5 rounds then have it up for later encounters. If you are thinking you are only getting 7 dmg out if it you aren't using it right.
100% right. For total damage output for the spell you are correct. Even compared to hex as hex uses a much higher spell slot later. Much of the ranger’s spell “power” is much better if looked at over the long term. That’s why I think the concentration thing isn’t such a bad thing. Other spells, like hail of thorns, are the ranger’s burst damage spells, I’ll be it situational.
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
That's because it's a BA to cast.... So you can't do it on the turn you cast it.
You’re not recasting it. It doesn’t have anything to do with the turn you cast it. Hunter’s Mark and Hex both have the same language. “If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.” Every time. Any time. When you reduce a targeted creature to zero hit points who can pick a new target on a later turn.
Most of the time you can recast on your turn is my point. In my experience it's rarely been a problem but I could see the potential issue.
I mean the concentration issue. Take an average of three rounds of combat with a ranger using hunter's mark and a third level hail of thorns. Lets say at level 9/10. Then compare that to an archer fighter or rogue, or a paladin with a longsword using a level 1 and 3 smite. It's about the same. The melee martials get a big bump at and past level 11, but rangers still do ok, and do well when using animals and or upcasting their spells.
There actually is no dramatic bump up in capability for most melee martials compared to the Ranger, except for perhaps for the Fighter getting an entire 3rd attack.
This same level of 11th where the Fighter Gets it's Third Attack and the Paladin get's 1d8 tagged on from improved Divine smite...
The Ranger is picking up various things based upon their subclass like the Ability to make a third attack, Summon a Fey creature without requiring concentration or requiring a spell slot or material component, getting volley or whirlwind attack which is upping damage by the variable potential of making more attacks in a turn than usual but against multiple enemies potentially, Increasing attacks for your beast companion, being able to thwart the spell casting or teleporting ability of another, or gain new abilities for your pet swarm. One of which is a slight increase in damage.
Most of these abilities actually add or improve damage in some way for the Ranger and while they aren't necessarily always useful they actually do represent a bump in Damage in most cases. And this is happening at the same time that other classes are receiving bumps in damage. So they aren't falling behind to the damage of the other martial classes when they get to 11th level and beyond.
Ranger gets Conjure Animals but it's something they have to choose.
Sure some subclasses get options but base paladin/fighter get boosts on top of what they're getting from subclass.
I'm mostly saying that ranger has certain spells keep them in line or ahead with damage that are kind of compulsory picks.
I also agree that if that's not your focus then you are good to pick whatever.
I agree. It’s one of the things I like about rangers. They can play well with a focus on mental stats (wisdom and intelligence), with a focus in healing, with a focus in animals, with a focus in melee combat or ranged combat, or with a focus in control.
Fighters should be good at fighting. I can’t imagine there is any debate on that.
Paladins should be good at fighting as they are pretty aggressively pointed towards melee combat exclusively. Their other abilities and spells are healing and protection.
Favored for is a poor comparison to hunter’s mark as a damage dealing spell/ability. Hunter’s mark is a better damage dealing device every time. But it’s a good ability to have/use when focusing on combat or not.
I am playing a Wisdom BM Ranger at the moment in DotMM - and it is tons of fun... and favoured foe is really nice! Is it as good as HM? No, but it buffs my damage without costing my spellslots, which is awesome. Thanks to my high wisdom my Primal Beasts attack is very high and also the knockdown ability procs quite often. If I dont use Spike Growth in large Group fights (concentration), I use Favoured Foe for the small fights and Hunters mark for bosses. And even if I don´t use spell slots my damage is quite good, thanks to the Beast. It also allows for lots of battleground control. Most fun I had with a Ranger since 5e!
Yeah overall the focus of Ranger is not damage unless you want it to be....if you want it to be you want to always take Hunters Mark and Conjure Animals is my point....they are the best choice for pure damage. You can also pick mob control spells if you want but honestly Hunter ranger abilities deal well enough with mobs that if you want to focus on that you should pick that subclass.
Otherwise most other rangers do not get enough spell choices/slots to be a good crowd control option IMO....you are better off with a Wizard/Druid/Cleric for that.
Compared to most full casters, yes, rangers aren't crowd control experts. But compared to fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians, rangers are king of the hill in crowd control.
Compared to most full casters, yes, rangers aren't crowd control experts. But compared to fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians, rangers are king of the hill in crowd control.
Yeah but thats like comparing the strongest 3rd grader to the High School running back....
Its always been this weird thing about 5e....half-casters tend to be lame ducks for me as they aren't generally as good as full martials for damage (Sans paladin where they can get LR in regularly) and aren't as good as casters as full casters so they come in this weird realm of being helpful but not the best in anything.
If I am going martial I am going full bore DPR machine as I embrace all that is damage....otherwise I am going to play a caster as they just offer so much more throughout the life of the game.
Its always been this weird thing about 5e....half-casters tend to be lame ducks for me as they aren't generally as good as full martials for damage (Sans paladin where they can get LR in regularly) and aren't as good as casters as full casters so they come in this weird realm of being helpful but not the best in anything.
Considering that there's only two half-casters (well, three now, but the artificer is kinda new) and the paladin is generally considered one of the strongest classes... what a curious conclusion.
Are you including Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight and/or Elemental Monk, by any chance? Curious minds inquiring
Compared to most full casters, yes, rangers aren't crowd control experts. But compared to fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians, rangers are king of the hill in crowd control.
How so? Barring Hail of Thorns/Conjure Barrage/Conjure Volley, which I've never seen taken, and the Hunter subclass, the ranger doesn't really seem to have any thing that really can be considered crowd control.
So, a melee ranger with, say, Fey Wanderer wouldn't have access to any crowd control abilities.
For me the quarter casters like AT, EK are good as they get access to cantrips which are always fun to play around with and generally offer benefit....but I find myself feeling starting to feel envious of the full casters by like level 5 or 6. They get these cool higher level spells and can do more things that I will never be able too. It gets worse from there as by the time they get 5th level spells I am generally wondering how to max my damage so I can kill something before they end the fight with some spell.
Paladin is a weird one for me....I love it for the resources it gets outside of its spell slots (CD, Lay on Hands) which generally add to its toolkit without having to rely on spells. I feel the above as well by later levels but I feel better about the class as I know I can nova hard and kill something if I really want to. Otherwise the casters are doing my amount of damage or more with their conjures or summons.....or just ending the encounter by banishing the enemy while we all get ready to smoke it.
Ranger comes in and does not get any of the above...well at least until Tasha's. PHB Ranger got these nebulous benefits (Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer) that do nothing 90% of the time and feel like a place holder for a better feature no one could think of. The rogue is doing better at tracking the bad guy than me because he has expertise. The barbarian is outlander background so he found the food already. The warlock sent his imp to scan the area invisible so my scouting is not really needed. The druid has become a bear and is talking with the other bears about a possible berry trade. The wizard is doing some ritual stuff to make us all speak to each other telepathically. And here I am....the others have negated most of my potential with hardly trying. I can never do what these others can but they can easily replace me. My only goal is to hope that the druid runs out of spell slots so I can cast Spike Growth and feel like I am contributing.
Tasha's helps but gives us Favored Foe which is situationally OK at best. The rest of Tasha's is actually good though so I am actually liking ranger better now. But I still have this feeling from old ranger that it doesn't take much to make me feel out of place. If I do not pick damage spells I am falling behind in combat and out of combat I am falling behind to the rest of the group anyway.
Ranger's other spells for damage are not direct damage dealing, they are AoE and situational damage spells. When used to hit a couple of enemies or in their situation, they deal WAY more damage than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark deals (potentially) 7 extra damage a turn.
In that sense, favored foe is MUCH worse.
You can't switch hunter's mark the SAME turn you bring previous target to zero hit points.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/hunters-mark
You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack, and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.
That's because it's a BA to cast.... So you can't do it on the turn you cast it.
.... Yes but for an hour. You can maintain a lot of damage in a fight that lasts 5 rounds then have it up for later encounters. If you are thinking you are only getting 7 dmg out if it you aren't using it right.
Some of them, like conjure barrage and lightning arrow, deal direct damage and/or indirect damage. But if all you're choosing hunter's mark for is the extra damage, you're ignoring half the spell. The advantage to Wisdom (Perception) and Wisdom (Survival) rolls means they're not likely hiding or escaping. At least, not for long. It's as much for utility and the exploration pillar of the game as it is for combat. And it, arguably, leans more towards the former if it is upcast with higher-level spell slots.
We don't care if we can't switch FF to another enemy after dropping them to 0. It can simply be reapplied after landing a successful hit. And the freed up Bonus Action means something else can be used, instead, and the bonus damage from FF can still apply under the right circumstances.
You’re not recasting it. It doesn’t have anything to do with the turn you cast it. Hunter’s Mark and Hex both have the same language. “If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature.” Every time. Any time. When you reduce a targeted creature to zero hit points who can pick a new target on a later turn.
100% right. For total damage output for the spell you are correct. Even compared to hex as hex uses a much higher spell slot later. Much of the ranger’s spell “power” is much better if looked at over the long term. That’s why I think the concentration thing isn’t such a bad thing. Other spells, like hail of thorns, are the ranger’s burst damage spells, I’ll be it situational.
Most of the time you can recast on your turn is my point. In my experience it's rarely been a problem but I could see the potential issue.
There actually is no dramatic bump up in capability for most melee martials compared to the Ranger, except for perhaps for the Fighter getting an entire 3rd attack.
This same level of 11th where the Fighter Gets it's Third Attack and the Paladin get's 1d8 tagged on from improved Divine smite...
The Ranger is picking up various things based upon their subclass like the Ability to make a third attack, Summon a Fey creature without requiring concentration or requiring a spell slot or material component, getting volley or whirlwind attack which is upping damage by the variable potential of making more attacks in a turn than usual but against multiple enemies potentially, Increasing attacks for your beast companion, being able to thwart the spell casting or teleporting ability of another, or gain new abilities for your pet swarm. One of which is a slight increase in damage.
Most of these abilities actually add or improve damage in some way for the Ranger and while they aren't necessarily always useful they actually do represent a bump in Damage in most cases. And this is happening at the same time that other classes are receiving bumps in damage. So they aren't falling behind to the damage of the other martial classes when they get to 11th level and beyond.
Ranger gets Conjure Animals but it's something they have to choose.
Sure some subclasses get options but base paladin/fighter get boosts on top of what they're getting from subclass.
I'm mostly saying that ranger has certain spells keep them in line or ahead with damage that are kind of compulsory picks.
I also agree that if that's not your focus then you are good to pick whatever.
I agree. It’s one of the things I like about rangers. They can play well with a focus on mental stats (wisdom and intelligence), with a focus in healing, with a focus in animals, with a focus in melee combat or ranged combat, or with a focus in control.
Fighters should be good at fighting. I can’t imagine there is any debate on that.
Paladins should be good at fighting as they are pretty aggressively pointed towards melee combat exclusively. Their other abilities and spells are healing and protection.
Favored for is a poor comparison to hunter’s mark as a damage dealing spell/ability. Hunter’s mark is a better damage dealing device every time. But it’s a good ability to have/use when focusing on combat or not.
I am playing a Wisdom BM Ranger at the moment in DotMM - and it is tons of fun... and favoured foe is really nice! Is it as good as HM? No, but it buffs my damage without costing my spellslots, which is awesome. Thanks to my high wisdom my Primal Beasts attack is very high and also the knockdown ability procs quite often. If I dont use Spike Growth in large Group fights (concentration), I use Favoured Foe for the small fights and Hunters mark for bosses. And even if I don´t use spell slots my damage is quite good, thanks to the Beast. It also allows for lots of battleground control. Most fun I had with a Ranger since 5e!
Yeah overall the focus of Ranger is not damage unless you want it to be....if you want it to be you want to always take Hunters Mark and Conjure Animals is my point....they are the best choice for pure damage. You can also pick mob control spells if you want but honestly Hunter ranger abilities deal well enough with mobs that if you want to focus on that you should pick that subclass.
Otherwise most other rangers do not get enough spell choices/slots to be a good crowd control option IMO....you are better off with a Wizard/Druid/Cleric for that.
Compared to most full casters, yes, rangers aren't crowd control experts. But compared to fighters, paladins, rogues, monks, and barbarians, rangers are king of the hill in crowd control.
Yeah but thats like comparing the strongest 3rd grader to the High School running back....
Its always been this weird thing about 5e....half-casters tend to be lame ducks for me as they aren't generally as good as full martials for damage (Sans paladin where they can get LR in regularly) and aren't as good as casters as full casters so they come in this weird realm of being helpful but not the best in anything.
If I am going martial I am going full bore DPR machine as I embrace all that is damage....otherwise I am going to play a caster as they just offer so much more throughout the life of the game.
Considering that there's only two half-casters (well, three now, but the artificer is kinda new) and the paladin is generally considered one of the strongest classes... what a curious conclusion.
Are you including Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight and/or Elemental Monk, by any chance? Curious minds inquiring
How so? Barring Hail of Thorns/Conjure Barrage/Conjure Volley, which I've never seen taken, and the Hunter subclass, the ranger doesn't really seem to have any thing that really can be considered crowd control.
So, a melee ranger with, say, Fey Wanderer wouldn't have access to any crowd control abilities.
For me the quarter casters like AT, EK are good as they get access to cantrips which are always fun to play around with and generally offer benefit....but I find myself feeling starting to feel envious of the full casters by like level 5 or 6. They get these cool higher level spells and can do more things that I will never be able too. It gets worse from there as by the time they get 5th level spells I am generally wondering how to max my damage so I can kill something before they end the fight with some spell.
Paladin is a weird one for me....I love it for the resources it gets outside of its spell slots (CD, Lay on Hands) which generally add to its toolkit without having to rely on spells. I feel the above as well by later levels but I feel better about the class as I know I can nova hard and kill something if I really want to. Otherwise the casters are doing my amount of damage or more with their conjures or summons.....or just ending the encounter by banishing the enemy while we all get ready to smoke it.
Ranger comes in and does not get any of the above...well at least until Tasha's. PHB Ranger got these nebulous benefits (Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer) that do nothing 90% of the time and feel like a place holder for a better feature no one could think of. The rogue is doing better at tracking the bad guy than me because he has expertise. The barbarian is outlander background so he found the food already. The warlock sent his imp to scan the area invisible so my scouting is not really needed. The druid has become a bear and is talking with the other bears about a possible berry trade. The wizard is doing some ritual stuff to make us all speak to each other telepathically. And here I am....the others have negated most of my potential with hardly trying. I can never do what these others can but they can easily replace me. My only goal is to hope that the druid runs out of spell slots so I can cast Spike Growth and feel like I am contributing.
Tasha's helps but gives us Favored Foe which is situationally OK at best. The rest of Tasha's is actually good though so I am actually liking ranger better now. But I still have this feeling from old ranger that it doesn't take much to make me feel out of place. If I do not pick damage spells I am falling behind in combat and out of combat I am falling behind to the rest of the group anyway.
Fair enough. Thank you for the response.
A second curious minds inquiring. You seem to be a fan of Deft Explorer? It inspires you to take the class?
With the right subclass yeah.
Gloomstalker seems like a lot of fun.