If you can afford to upcast or have multiclassed and have open upcastable slots its a very nice tight area of effect spells. Nice enough your DM will probably pay attention to how tight he spaces enemies.
As a bit of an experiment I filtered the creatures in the monster manual by the number of average hit points they have to be under the average damage of this spell’s d10 damage cast with spell slots of first, second, or third level, which is what a ranger has access to in the first and second tiers of play. This spell is a minion destroyer!
If I were to combine it with Planar Warrior, the Hail of Thorns damage would also convert to force damage, would it? Put a Favored Foe on top of that for a pretty decent burst option at early levels...
Both the Planar Warrior and the FF bonus would only affect the initial target, but still decent I'd think.
You'd have to set it up of course, but maybe use it as an opener in a fight.
Ha! I got really excited for a moment. But now I think not. It says, "In addition to the normal effect of the attack...". On the plus side, it is magical piercing damage, so that would not be resisted. Favored foe being able to be added to these types of spells is a really nice use of that ability.
Anyone else use this spell with a mainly melee ranger build? Throwing a dagger, javelin, or spear? Even a rock would work. Hand axe on your belt in a pinch.
Once on each of your turns, you can cause the swarm to assist you in one of the following ways, immediately after you hit a creature with an attack: • The attack's target takes ld6 piercing damage from the swarm . • The attack's target must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be moved by the swarm up to 15 feet horizontally in a direction of your choice. • You are moved by the swarm 5 feet horizontally in a direction of your choice.
The next time you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack before the spell ends, this spell creates a rain of thorns that sprouts from your ranged weapon or ammunition. In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
That is a good question! My gut tells me that it wouldn’t work the way I hope it would, with the hail of thorns taking place after the swarm moves the target next to another creature.
When I was a Hunter Conclave Ranger with archery as my fighting style, I would use hail of thorns to hit at least 5+ enemies and then use my horde breaker feature to make another attack on a target 5 feet away and then hit more enemies. I cleared 80+ damage from one round of combat in a room full of skeletons at level 6 ranger, DM paid attention to spacing after that, Ranger class is so underrated.
When I was a Hunter Conclave Ranger with archery as my fighting style, I would use hail of thorns to hit at least 5+ enemies and then use my horde breaker feature to make another attack on a target 5 feet away and then hit more enemies. I cleared 80+ damage from one round of combat in a room full of skeletons at level 6 ranger, DM paid attention to spacing after that, Ranger class is so underrated.
As excited I am to hear success stories, that’s not how that would play out. Horde breaker only gives a single extra attack. And hail of thorns only works once, on the first attack that hits. The way you’re describing it is incorrect and quite overpowered.
It "could" work if you used your ba on a previous turn for hail of thorns for first attack. Bonus action cast it again. Trigger horde breaker. Second hit. Still extra-attack could provide the same function. But having extra attack and horde breaker might let you finish one extra enemy you would have missed.
It's pushing a bonus action from one turn on to the second turn and would be hard to pull off. it could be done if you don't loose concentration betwen turns. If you "absolutely know" enemies will be in a bigger group next turn its something to consider the risky attempt.
When I was a Hunter Conclave Ranger with archery as my fighting style, I would use hail of thorns to hit at least 5+ enemies and then use my horde breaker feature to make another attack on a target 5 feet away and then hit more enemies. I cleared 80+ damage from one round of combat in a room full of skeletons at level 6 ranger, DM paid attention to spacing after that, Ranger class is so underrated.
As excited I am to hear success stories, that’s not how that would play out. Horde breaker only gives a single extra attack. And hail of thorns only works once, on the first attack that hits. The way you’re describing it is incorrect and quite overpowered.
I have played the exact same build and it was quite effective against minions and swarms, then I got Crossbow Expert, two attacks at level 5, I was able to start the combat damaging several foes with Hail of Thorns, following-up consistently with 3-4 attacks in a row thanks to Horde Breaker.
Anyone else use this spell with a mainly melee ranger build? Throwing a dagger, javelin, or spear? Even a rock would work. Hand axe on your belt in a pinch.
I realize this comment is from over a year ago, but it seems the thread is still active. I don’t think this would work. Thrown weapons are not ranged weapons, which the spell specifies. Thrown weapons are melee weapons you can throw, not ranged per se.
A dart, I think, is the only exception. So, it could work with one of those.
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I love this spell so much for the ranger class!
I’d love to get some good conversations going with all of you about this spell. The good. The bad. The unknown.
If you can afford to upcast or have multiclassed and have open upcastable slots its a very nice tight area of effect spells. Nice enough your DM will probably pay attention to how tight he spaces enemies.
If there's 2 of you, the combo of Spike growth and hail of thorns is rather deadly
I really like how the spell’s area of effect gets larger when you hit a larger initial target. Thematically and mechanically it is very fun.
As a bit of an experiment I filtered the creatures in the monster manual by the number of average hit points they have to be under the average damage of this spell’s d10 damage cast with spell slots of first, second, or third level, which is what a ranger has access to in the first and second tiers of play. This spell is a minion destroyer!
If I were to combine it with Planar Warrior, the Hail of Thorns damage would also convert to force damage, would it? Put a Favored Foe on top of that for a pretty decent burst option at early levels...
Both the Planar Warrior and the FF bonus would only affect the initial target, but still decent I'd think.
You'd have to set it up of course, but maybe use it as an opener in a fight.
Ha! I got really excited for a moment. But now I think not. It says, "In addition to the normal effect of the attack...". On the plus side, it is magical piercing damage, so that would not be resisted. Favored foe being able to be added to these types of spells is a really nice use of that ability.
Anyone else use this spell with a mainly melee ranger build? Throwing a dagger, javelin, or spear? Even a rock would work. Hand axe on your belt in a pinch.
that had never occurred to me, brilliant!
How would you say this works with the swarm keeper ability? Can I move them first then trigger the damage?
Once on each of your turns, you can cause the swarm to assist you in one of the following ways, immediately after you hit a creature with an attack: • The attack's target takes ld6 piercing damage from the swarm . • The attack's target must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be moved by the swarm up to 15 feet horizontally in a direction of your choice. • You are moved by the swarm 5 feet horizontally in a direction of your choice.
The next time you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack before the spell ends, this spell creates a rain of thorns that sprouts from your ranged weapon or ammunition. In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
That is a good question! My gut tells me that it wouldn’t work the way I hope it would, with the hail of thorns taking place after the swarm moves the target next to another creature.
it's this bit..." immediately after you hit a creature with an attack"
if you have 2 attacks it could work? Attack action, swarm( special action?), bonus action hail of thorns, 2nd attack?
Oh yeah! With two attacks from extra attack it would be an awesome combination!
When I was a Hunter Conclave Ranger with archery as my fighting style, I would use hail of thorns to hit at least 5+ enemies and then use my horde breaker feature to make another attack on a target 5 feet away and then hit more enemies. I cleared 80+ damage from one round of combat in a room full of skeletons at level 6 ranger, DM paid attention to spacing after that, Ranger class is so underrated.
Ranger build is great combined with the horde breaker ability from hunter conclave
As excited I am to hear success stories, that’s not how that would play out. Horde breaker only gives a single extra attack. And hail of thorns only works once, on the first attack that hits. The way you’re describing it is incorrect and quite overpowered.
It "could" work if you used your ba on a previous turn for hail of thorns for first attack. Bonus action cast it again. Trigger horde breaker. Second hit. Still extra-attack could provide the same function. But having extra attack and horde breaker might let you finish one extra enemy you would have missed.
It's pushing a bonus action from one turn on to the second turn and would be hard to pull off. it could be done if you don't loose concentration betwen turns. If you "absolutely know" enemies will be in a bigger group next turn its something to consider the risky attempt.
I have played the exact same build and it was quite effective against minions and swarms, then I got Crossbow Expert, two attacks at level 5, I was able to start the combat damaging several foes with Hail of Thorns, following-up consistently with 3-4 attacks in a row thanks to Horde Breaker.
I realize this comment is from over a year ago, but it seems the thread is still active.
I don’t think this would work. Thrown weapons are not ranged weapons, which the spell specifies. Thrown weapons are melee weapons you can throw, not ranged per se.
A dart, I think, is the only exception. So, it could work with one of those.