I’m going for a kobold swashbuckler. He got banished from his tribe after being clumsy, made a raft and sailed out to sea where he was abducted by pirates. Seeing they looked scary he claimed to have killed his way out of the tribe to protect his shinies. The pirates like this and he becomes a part of the crew. He later wants to have a look at a precious gem carved into the shape of a lotus, and clumsily knocks over a candle, ignites the black powder and blows up the ship. All he wants is to be a part of a family, but through clumsiness gets them killed.
So when the campaign starts in about a month he will be desperate for a group to join, acting mean to impress, and afraid he will kill them too.
I'm looking forward to dashing in, getting advantage and sneak attack and then getting way out again without triggering opportunity attacks. Also plan to start bar fights but knowing he his only a little kobold, evening the odds by tying their boot laces together before picking the fight. It’ll be interesting to see what my DM will let me get away with relying on the bad reputation feature.
Have you had a chance to pick any bar fights, yet?
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
Scout isn't in the poll, but it's what I'm playing. I took Mobility as a feat. Scout doesn't shine until later levels, so stealing one of the best abilities of Swashbuckler lets me play a VERY fun character early on. 40 base move, melee attack prevents opportunity attacks, bonus move away from anyone who ends their turn next to me... and I'm playing a Tabaxi. So... occasionally I can double that move to 80. Recently I was resisted a charm by a Naga who had slept the entire party. I played along until I stabbed her in the back, grabbed a handful of gold, activated my Tabaxi double move range, and ran over to the boat my teammates were sleepign in, pelted them with coins (rolled a 20 to hit them with flung gold! DM ruled I could do it as a bonus action) to wake them up and ran my furry behind off past the naga AGAIN and had the Naga chasing me. Man, we soooo almost died. The barbarian Orc used his "Don't die!" ability to stay alive when he finally got her into combat and she lightning bolted him in the face. We had one teammate down, two at 1 hit point each (me and the barb) and another in the single digits when we managed to finish that darn snake.
Originally, Arcane Trickster felt like the subclass to beat...Booming Blade, Find Familiar, and a enhanced Mage Hand...
However, after starting a Swashbuckler, I've come to see the value of the class...Fancy Footwork allows for a "Mobile" feat (minus movement speed), plus a bonus-action Dash, meaning you're hard to pin down...Rakish Audacity means obscenely high Initiative rolls and more Sneak Attack damage for direct combat. Haven't reached this point yet, but Panache seems like it will be potent, both in and out of combat.
The hidden gem is, with Charisma providing a boon to the Rogue subclass, it means multiclassing Charisma classes is very valuable...allowing for many spells offered by the Arcane Trickster subclass to be available to the Swashbuckler...currently, my character carries a cursed dagger he sometimes speaks to, offering a temptation to dip into the Warlock class...and it's interesting to have that option to use at any point.
Having crafted a Rogue with no real thought on which path to walk as far as archetype I looked closely at them all. The Swashbuckler looked good to me, but I really appreciate the Arcane Trickster gaining the ability to use some very nice spells. Considering at 8th level spell learned can be from ANY school I think that is how it will work out. A Rogue with the ability to dimension door? Oh yeah, that helps make a great escape plan. This looks like great fun to build up to me.
Arcane Tricksters are nice and all, but remember that spell progression is slow. You probably shouldn't get it to enjoy a specific spells unless they're low level or you're going to make a high level character, one way or another. Dimension Door is a 4th level spell, so the earliest you can get it is 19th level.
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
Eladrin have as an ability the use of Misty Step at level one, and that helps start the show. if you were playing a Gnome, (Deep) then use of Svirfneblin Magic as a feat would help as well since it has many sneaky things built in that help do roguish things. The spell use is slow, and it caps out at 4th level spells, but with good spell selection it can be a blast to play.
Yes, but those are racial abilities and have nothing to do with being an arcane trickster vs being any other rogue with those racial abilities.
I wasn't disparaging arcane tricksters. I was simply pointing out that choosing that type of rogue specifically to use high level spells was going to take awhile.
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
At 3rd level you gain the archetype, and three cantrips, plus two 1st level spells. Disguise self, useful for a Rogue. Sleep, Color spray, Mold Earth for setting up traps, or perhaps Shield. There are some pretty sold spells there to help a Rogue out. The Arcane Trickster will never have high level spells from the Archetype, but there are useful midrange and lower spells that can be used. Mold Earth for example with Minor Illusion. Fire Bolt, that scales up looks good, and has no save, and with Chill Touch. Good choice of ranged spells with no saves to pick from.
Dude, why are you talking to me as if I'm suggesting AT's are no good?
You mentioned getting spells at 8th level, and then mentioned dimension door like you would be getting that spell at that level. I simply pointed out that a 4th level spell would not be available through AT level progression until higher levels, believing you were associating that particular spell level with that particular character level, and was trying to clear up that misconception.
You then tell me about a way to get dimension door or similar abilities with an AT at lower levels through racial abilities, to which I point out that doesn't contradict what I said since those racial abilities can be applied to any rogue subclass, not just AT. I then state that I wasn't putting down AT's but reiterating my original point that high level spells, specifically, will take awhile.
Now you're trying to tell me about some lower level spells an AT can get that can really work well with rogue abilities, as if I suggested there were none. Why? What does that have to do with anything I've said? Did I say something that implied that without realizing it? I really want to know because it bugs me when I'm misunderstood and I want to know what I could have said differently to avoid confusion in the future.
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I mentioned that at 8th level because I missed the part where it caps out at 4th. I totally missed on that point, but still think this archetype is the best one out there. Just my opinion. the others have interesting abilities, but I like this one the best. Hope you have a good night, and enjoy playing the archetype that pleases you.
Gotta be honest, I'm not impressed with Swashbuckler or Mastermind. Mastermind can help as a bonus seems to be their big thing, but arcane trickster can get a familiar, which can take the help action, or can just take the Ritual Caster feat (or even magic initiate). Swashbuckler gets Fancy footwork, but could just use cunning action to disengage. What's the point?
No option for scout? Scout is probably my favorite thematically, I like the idea of a rogue that operates on the outskirts, using their agility and cunning to explore and infiltrate. They're also ridiculously hard to pin down in combat, what with their reaction options to just run away half of their speed when you enter melee range (no opportunity attacks!), their superior mobility, advantage on initiative rolls, and they have the potential to eventually use two sneak attacks in one turn (not on the same target unfortunately).
Honorable mentions for me are Mastermind and Inquisitive. People have already said a lot about mastermind, and as for inquisitive, I like the idea of a detective-like rogue. Observing and stalking your targets, eyeing their weak points until you get the perfect opportunity and unleash a barrage of sneak attacks on them. Wonderful.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
I imagine that swashbuckler is far and large the be all-end-all dual wielding thief, so you could ideally use your bonus action to off-hand attack, and then escape without using cunning action.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Gotta be honest, I'm not impressed with Swashbuckler or Mastermind. Mastermind can help as a bonus seems to be their big thing, but arcane trickster can get a familiar, which can take the help action, or can just take the Ritual Caster feat (or even magic initiate). Swashbuckler gets Fancy footwork, but could just use cunning action to disengage. What's the point?
Mastermind's big thing, is their ability to deceive anyone. unerringly mimic creatures after only being exposed to them talking for 1 minute. King was stingy of reward for some quest? Now the king is yelling at the treasury guards from one of those fancy chairs people gets carried in to have the treasury opened to reward these brave travelers.
Masterrminds can not be read by telepathy unless they allow it. Can't be compelled to tell the truth etc. And, rather than people focusing on master of tactics at level 3 for the 30 feet of help... Which is good when your rogue is using bow and arrow to get sneak attack while at range helping the tanks with advantage....
But Insightful manipulator is sooooo much fun to use.
That said.
I don't have a clear favorite. Masterminds are better for RP/exploration heavy.
Swashbucklers are better for combat heavy.
The campaign, let alone personal play preference, completely determine one or another being more useful.
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Have you had a chance to pick any bar fights, yet?
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
Scout isn't in the poll, but it's what I'm playing. I took Mobility as a feat. Scout doesn't shine until later levels, so stealing one of the best abilities of Swashbuckler lets me play a VERY fun character early on. 40 base move, melee attack prevents opportunity attacks, bonus move away from anyone who ends their turn next to me... and I'm playing a Tabaxi. So... occasionally I can double that move to 80. Recently I was resisted a charm by a Naga who had slept the entire party. I played along until I stabbed her in the back, grabbed a handful of gold, activated my Tabaxi double move range, and ran over to the boat my teammates were sleepign in, pelted them with coins (rolled a 20 to hit them with flung gold! DM ruled I could do it as a bonus action) to wake them up and ran my furry behind off past the naga AGAIN and had the Naga chasing me. Man, we soooo almost died. The barbarian Orc used his "Don't die!" ability to stay alive when he finally got her into combat and she lightning bolted him in the face. We had one teammate down, two at 1 hit point each (me and the barb) and another in the single digits when we managed to finish that darn snake.
What about inquisitive? Great for detecting traps, interrogation, solo combat(not as good as assassin's strike), finding hidden treasures
I demand this fraud of a poll be taken down!!!! For we are!!!! The SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!
seriously where is inquisitor?
This poll is old enough they weren't official subclasses. :D
I go for Mastermind because I play a scholarly, tactical type of character.
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Originally, Arcane Trickster felt like the subclass to beat...Booming Blade, Find Familiar, and a enhanced Mage Hand...
However, after starting a Swashbuckler, I've come to see the value of the class...Fancy Footwork allows for a "Mobile" feat (minus movement speed), plus a bonus-action Dash, meaning you're hard to pin down...Rakish Audacity means obscenely high Initiative rolls and more Sneak Attack damage for direct combat. Haven't reached this point yet, but Panache seems like it will be potent, both in and out of combat.
The hidden gem is, with Charisma providing a boon to the Rogue subclass, it means multiclassing Charisma classes is very valuable...allowing for many spells offered by the Arcane Trickster subclass to be available to the Swashbuckler...currently, my character carries a cursed dagger he sometimes speaks to, offering a temptation to dip into the Warlock class...and it's interesting to have that option to use at any point.
Having crafted a Rogue with no real thought on which path to walk as far as archetype I looked closely at them all. The Swashbuckler looked good to me, but I really appreciate the Arcane Trickster gaining the ability to use some very nice spells. Considering at 8th level spell learned can be from ANY school I think that is how it will work out. A Rogue with the ability to dimension door? Oh yeah, that helps make a great escape plan. This looks like great fun to build up to me.
Arcane Tricksters are nice and all, but remember that spell progression is slow. You probably shouldn't get it to enjoy a specific spells unless they're low level or you're going to make a high level character, one way or another. Dimension Door is a 4th level spell, so the earliest you can get it is 19th level.
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
Eladrin have as an ability the use of Misty Step at level one, and that helps start the show. if you were playing a Gnome, (Deep) then use of Svirfneblin Magic as a feat would help as well since it has many sneaky things built in that help do roguish things. The spell use is slow, and it caps out at 4th level spells, but with good spell selection it can be a blast to play.
Yes, but those are racial abilities and have nothing to do with being an arcane trickster vs being any other rogue with those racial abilities.
I wasn't disparaging arcane tricksters. I was simply pointing out that choosing that type of rogue specifically to use high level spells was going to take awhile.
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
At 3rd level you gain the archetype, and three cantrips, plus two 1st level spells. Disguise self, useful for a Rogue. Sleep, Color spray, Mold Earth for setting up traps, or perhaps Shield. There are some pretty sold spells there to help a Rogue out. The Arcane Trickster will never have high level spells from the Archetype, but there are useful midrange and lower spells that can be used. Mold Earth for example with Minor Illusion. Fire Bolt, that scales up looks good, and has no save, and with Chill Touch. Good choice of ranged spells with no saves to pick from.
Dude, why are you talking to me as if I'm suggesting AT's are no good?
You mentioned getting spells at 8th level, and then mentioned dimension door like you would be getting that spell at that level. I simply pointed out that a 4th level spell would not be available through AT level progression until higher levels, believing you were associating that particular spell level with that particular character level, and was trying to clear up that misconception.
You then tell me about a way to get dimension door or similar abilities with an AT at lower levels through racial abilities, to which I point out that doesn't contradict what I said since those racial abilities can be applied to any rogue subclass, not just AT. I then state that I wasn't putting down AT's but reiterating my original point that high level spells, specifically, will take awhile.
Now you're trying to tell me about some lower level spells an AT can get that can really work well with rogue abilities, as if I suggested there were none. Why? What does that have to do with anything I've said? Did I say something that implied that without realizing it? I really want to know because it bugs me when I'm misunderstood and I want to know what I could have said differently to avoid confusion in the future.
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
I mentioned that at 8th level because I missed the part where it caps out at 4th. I totally missed on that point, but still think this archetype is the best one out there. Just my opinion. the others have interesting abilities, but I like this one the best. Hope you have a good night, and enjoy playing the archetype that pleases you.
Gotta be honest, I'm not impressed with Swashbuckler or Mastermind. Mastermind can help as a bonus seems to be their big thing, but arcane trickster can get a familiar, which can take the help action, or can just take the Ritual Caster feat (or even magic initiate). Swashbuckler gets Fancy footwork, but could just use cunning action to disengage. What's the point?
I'd missed that part of it looking at other spells. that would be useful for doing recon without getting noticed. That would be useful.
No option for scout? Scout is probably my favorite thematically, I like the idea of a rogue that operates on the outskirts, using their agility and cunning to explore and infiltrate. They're also ridiculously hard to pin down in combat, what with their reaction options to just run away half of their speed when you enter melee range (no opportunity attacks!), their superior mobility, advantage on initiative rolls, and they have the potential to eventually use two sneak attacks in one turn (not on the same target unfortunately).
Honorable mentions for me are Mastermind and Inquisitive. People have already said a lot about mastermind, and as for inquisitive, I like the idea of a detective-like rogue. Observing and stalking your targets, eyeing their weak points until you get the perfect opportunity and unleash a barrage of sneak attacks on them. Wonderful.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
I imagine that swashbuckler is far and large the be all-end-all dual wielding thief, so you could ideally use your bonus action to off-hand attack, and then escape without using cunning action.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Honestly, no love for the Thief archetype? It's awesome! Fast Hands has a lot of uses and Thiefs are really flavorful in my opinion.
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Mastermind's big thing, is their ability to deceive anyone. unerringly mimic creatures after only being exposed to them talking for 1 minute. King was stingy of reward for some quest? Now the king is yelling at the treasury guards from one of those fancy chairs people gets carried in to have the treasury opened to reward these brave travelers.
Masterrminds can not be read by telepathy unless they allow it. Can't be compelled to tell the truth etc. And, rather than people focusing on master of tactics at level 3 for the 30 feet of help... Which is good when your rogue is using bow and arrow to get sneak attack while at range helping the tanks with advantage....
But Insightful manipulator is sooooo much fun to use.
That said.
I don't have a clear favorite. Masterminds are better for RP/exploration heavy.
Swashbucklers are better for combat heavy.
The campaign, let alone personal play preference, completely determine one or another being more useful.
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