Basically this question. I always hear people talking about how sorcerers are outclassed by most other casting classes, and how metamagic is basically the class's reason for existing. Do you think starting out with all the options for metamagic available would even the playing field and give sorcerer the oomph it needs? Bear in mind that the sorcerer would still be limited by the number of sorcery points, so I don't think they would necessarily be popping metamagic more often, they'd basically just come prepackaged with a device for every occasion, so to speak.
That'd just make things more bland since you'd be taking away one of the main things that distinguishes one sorcerer from another. It also doesn't address the main problem with the class (in my opinion, anyways), which is the crazy low number of Spells Known it starts with.
That'd just make things more bland since you'd be taking away one of the main things that distinguishes one sorcerer from another. It also doesn't address the main problem with the class (in my opinion, anyways), which is the crazy low number of Spells Known it starts with.
That's more of a problem with the sub-classes now isn't it? The newer ones have bonus spells at various levels; not ret-con for Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic etc. yet though sadly.
I don't think all metamagic would make sorcerers more bland as such, as it's still up to you which ones you use and when, and actually we might see some more metamagic options being used in general. I do agree it doesn't fix the class as such, but it'd be neat.
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I wouldn't allow every sorcerer to have every metamagic options at 3rd level, since it seems to be an awful lot of versatility very early on. However, I do think that allowing sorcerers to have more than 4 metamagic options by the time that they reach level 17... Excluding the new Metamagic Adept feat from TCoE.
My recommendation would be more along the lines of allowing a sorcerer to gain a higher number of options at the different levels. For example, a sorcerer could gain two (2) more options at 10th level and two (2) more options at 17th (level), which would give said sorcerer six (6) total metamagic options. Not a big bonus mind you, but it would provide some additional versatility to their otherwise limited number of spells.
That's more of a problem with the sub-classes now isn't it? The newer ones have bonus spells at various levels; not ret-con for Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic etc. yet though sadly.
I don't think all metamagic would make sorcerers more bland as such, as it's still up to you which ones you use and when, and actually we might see some more metamagic options being used in general. I do agree it doesn't fix the class as such, but it'd be neat.
You could make the same argument for literally any other class feature that asks you to make a choice. You could give wizards every single spell in their spellbook and they'd still be limited in how many they prepare and how many they can cast. You could give Battle Masters every maneuver and they'd be limited by their superiority dice.
You can still express some individuality by what you choose to do with all of those options, but that still doesn't tell me as much about your character as asking you to pick. Those limited options tell me about who trained you, what your priorities are or what are your natural talents in a way that having all of tools at your disposal doesn't. Odds are good if one metamagic is the perfect fit for the problem at hand, you'll use it.
I've always considered metamagic to be an exceptional talent you unconsciously know, since no other spellcaster can learn metamagic no matter how much they study or practice. It's part of what makes you unique even among sorcerers. You lose that storytelling flavor when you remove that choice and you're still left with a class that starts with only 2 spells vs a bard or wizard's 4 and has no unique cantrips to give them an edge like bards or warlocks do.
Basically this question. I always hear people talking about how sorcerers are outclassed by most other casting classes, and how metamagic is basically the class's reason for existing. Do you think starting out with all the options for metamagic available would even the playing field and give sorcerer the oomph it needs? Bear in mind that the sorcerer would still be limited by the number of sorcery points, so I don't think they would necessarily be popping metamagic more often, they'd basically just come prepackaged with a device for every occasion, so to speak.
What are your thoughts?
That'd just make things more bland since you'd be taking away one of the main things that distinguishes one sorcerer from another. It also doesn't address the main problem with the class (in my opinion, anyways), which is the crazy low number of Spells Known it starts with.
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That's more of a problem with the sub-classes now isn't it? The newer ones have bonus spells at various levels; not ret-con for Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic etc. yet though sadly.
I don't think all metamagic would make sorcerers more bland as such, as it's still up to you which ones you use and when, and actually we might see some more metamagic options being used in general. I do agree it doesn't fix the class as such, but it'd be neat.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I wouldn't allow every sorcerer to have every metamagic options at 3rd level, since it seems to be an awful lot of versatility very early on. However, I do think that allowing sorcerers to have more than 4 metamagic options by the time that they reach level 17... Excluding the new Metamagic Adept feat from TCoE.
My recommendation would be more along the lines of allowing a sorcerer to gain a higher number of options at the different levels. For example, a sorcerer could gain two (2) more options at 10th level and two (2) more options at 17th (level), which would give said sorcerer six (6) total metamagic options. Not a big bonus mind you, but it would provide some additional versatility to their otherwise limited number of spells.
You could make the same argument for literally any other class feature that asks you to make a choice. You could give wizards every single spell in their spellbook and they'd still be limited in how many they prepare and how many they can cast. You could give Battle Masters every maneuver and they'd be limited by their superiority dice.
You can still express some individuality by what you choose to do with all of those options, but that still doesn't tell me as much about your character as asking you to pick. Those limited options tell me about who trained you, what your priorities are or what are your natural talents in a way that having all of tools at your disposal doesn't. Odds are good if one metamagic is the perfect fit for the problem at hand, you'll use it.
I've always considered metamagic to be an exceptional talent you unconsciously know, since no other spellcaster can learn metamagic no matter how much they study or practice. It's part of what makes you unique even among sorcerers. You lose that storytelling flavor when you remove that choice and you're still left with a class that starts with only 2 spells vs a bard or wizard's 4 and has no unique cantrips to give them an edge like bards or warlocks do.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I homebrew that the old sorc subclasses get to pick more metas at certain levels to balance them a bit with Tasha sorcs.