So I'm gonna homebrew a short campaign for a few friends.
One friend is a bit of a min-maxer, which is fine.
I do have one question though.
This friend claims that: At level 7 you can add cha to attack damage, so can a lvl 12 lock (I reckon he means lifedrinker: ->When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).)
Does that mean his calculation of 1d8+19 is correct as a baseline?
I am assuming a Hexblade build here but correct me if I am wrong....
Also assuming 20 CHA by Level 12.
So lets break the damage down:
1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) + 5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) + 2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) + 1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) + 5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) = +13
I am assuming a Hexblade build here but correct me if I am wrong....
Also assuming 20 CHA by Level 12.
So lets break the damage down:
1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) + 5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) + 2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) + 1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) + 5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) = +13
So no I see +13 at best
Apparently, as a paladin you can also add your charisma, which I noted didn't stack.
The claim was that one is an aura the other an invocation.
Starting at 7th level, the paladin, as well any fiends and undead within 10 feet of the paladin, gains a bonus to melee weapon damage rolls equal to the paladin’s Charisma modifier (minimum of +1). A creature can benefit from this feature from only one paladin at a time."
Perhaps he is using the oath breaker paladin. 1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) + 5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) + 2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) + 1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) + 5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) + 5 CHA (Oathbreaker Aura of Hate) = 18
I am assuming a Hexblade build here but correct me if I am wrong....
Also assuming 20 CHA by Level 12.
So lets break the damage down:
1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) + 5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) + 2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) + 1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) + 5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) = +13
So no I see +13 at best
Apparently, as a paladin you can also add your charisma, which I noted didn't stack.
The claim was that one is an aura the other an invocation.
And yes, it was a Hexblade
What Aura are they thinking of?
Paladins usually do not get their aura until 7th level so that combined with the 12 levels of warlock would put you at level 19....which +19 damage is nothing at that point.
One thing to be careful of with multiclass warlock is that there are invocations that require a minimum level. When that is referenced, the character needs to have that level in warlock (hence the level paladin/level 12 warlock above). Also remember that hexblade uses Cha instead of str/dex, not in addition to. Hope this helps troubleshoot what may be happening!
Unless there is some reason Aura of Hate and Lifedrinker can't stack, at level 19 he can indeed get to 1dX+18 points of damage. They can't get there until level 19 so honestly it shouldn't really matter. Base 19 damage per attack is the least of one's worries with a 19th level character.
Unless there is some reason Aura of Hate and Lifedrinker can't stack, at level 19 he can indeed get to 1dX+18 points of damage. They can't get there until level 19 so honestly it shouldn't really matter. Base 19 damage per attack is the least of one's worries with a 19th level character.
Exactly as Wish exists at this level for several casters and they are already putting out 3x this damage with spells each turn so its not a big deal.
I'm guessing that he's accounting for a CHA tome to achieve a +6 CHA mod, in which case yes he can do 1d8+19, even 20 if you include improved pact weapon
I'm guessing that he's accounting for a CHA tome to achieve a +6 CHA mod, in which case yes he can do 1d8+19, even 20 if you include improved pact weapon
Fair enough....would still be level 19 at least though? or am I missing a quicker route?
I'm guessing that he's accounting for a CHA tome to achieve a +6 CHA mod, in which case yes he can do 1d8+19, even 20 if you include improved pact weapon
Fair enough....would still be level 19 at least though? or am I missing a quicker route?
Yeah, I'm not seeing a quicker route anyhow. I mean, if this is going to be a short lvl 20 campaign, it does make sense that he's accounting for VR items, or whatever. Maybe odd he's not accounting for +3 weapons or something, who knows.
You know, this is actually a darn good build. If you built it like, maxed out CHA, PAM, and a staff of power... Yeesh, this thing is a power house. Access to mystic arcanum like force cage, mass suggestion along with all the typical goodies like smites. I have to ask, OP, what magic items are you allowing at creation?
If we go with both a tome and staff, plate and shield, defense fighting style, you're looking at a caster rocking at least 23 AC and +8 to every saving throw. And you'd still keep a +20 base damage modifier.
And at least 63 DPR just from melee.
Not to mention the invocations, spells, and other features from the classes. It's a serious disservice to write off the build as not being up to par just for lacking access to 8th and 9th lvl spells.
You know, this is actually a darn good build. If you built it like, maxed out CHA, PAM, and a staff of power... Yeesh, this thing is a power house. Access to mystic arcanum like force cage, mass suggestion along with all the typical goodies like smites. I have to ask, OP, what magic items are you allowing at creation?
If we go with both a tome and staff, plate and shield, defense fighting style, you're looking at a caster rocking at least 23 AC and +8 to every saving throw. And you'd still keep a +20 base damage modifier.
And at least 63 DPR just from melee.
Not to mention the invocations, spells, and other features from the classes. It's a serious disservice to write off the build as not being up to par just for lacking access to 8th and 9th lvl spells.
I was mostly saying its definitely good but.....most things are at 19th level is my point. Wish and what not make you immensely powerful just like this combo so its not out of line....everything just gets nutty at that level.
You also get Smites from this build as well!
If you want to see it in action:
Watch Critical Role Campaign 2.....Fjord does this exact combo and is a powerhouse.
Just let him have it. It's good damage but he's invested invocations and is giving up having really powerful warlock mystic arcanum to get it, and in the gap levels to get up to lv7 paladin they are actually going to be kind of underpowered until the aura comes online.
Honestly dealing with reliable damage is not an issue compared to spells like force cage, finger of death or demiplane etc. that the warlock could have at level 19
Look at something like a sorlock at that level, with just hex and quickin on a cantrip they can do 8d10+8d6+40 (112 avg.) with 80ft of knock back and -10ft movement.
I mean if he realllly wants to optimize, going pure hexblade by level 12 he can have a 1d10+15 to damage and then throw in GWM.
1d10 Glaive/Halberd + 5 cha + 5 cha (lifedrinker)+1 Improved pact weapon+ 4 (hexblade curse)
then with PAM there is a BA attack, then GWM is another +10 so real optimizing here is a lot worse and that doesn't include the UA Superior/Ultimate pact weapon
"you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property." From the Hex Warrior entry. Hexblades can't use Great Weapon Master with a weapon tagged as Heavy.
So I'm gonna homebrew a short campaign for a few friends.
One friend is a bit of a min-maxer, which is fine.
I do have one question though.
This friend claims that: At level 7 you can add cha to attack damage, so can a lvl 12 lock (I reckon he means lifedrinker: ->When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).)
Does that mean his calculation of 1d8+19 is correct as a baseline?
Does it even stack?
How would you handle this?
I am assuming a Hexblade build here but correct me if I am wrong....
Also assuming 20 CHA by Level 12.
So lets break the damage down:
1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) + 5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) + 2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) + 1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) + 5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) = +13
So no I see +13 at best
"Aura of Hate
Starting at 7th level, the paladin, as well any fiends and undead within 10 feet of the paladin, gains a bonus to melee weapon damage rolls equal to the paladin’s Charisma modifier (minimum of +1). A creature can benefit from this feature from only one paladin at a time."
Perhaps he is using the oath breaker paladin.
1d8 (Assuming longsword or another d8 dueling weapon) +
5 CHA (Hexblades can use CHA instead of DEX/STR) +
2 Dueling Fighting Style (Paladin Style) +
1 Improved Pact Weapon (Warlock invocation) +
5 CHA (Lifedrinker invocation) +
5 CHA (Oathbreaker Aura of Hate) = 18
What Aura are they thinking of?
Paladins usually do not get their aura until 7th level so that combined with the 12 levels of warlock would put you at level 19....which +19 damage is nothing at that point.
One thing to be careful of with multiclass warlock is that there are invocations that require a minimum level. When that is referenced, the character needs to have that level in warlock (hence the level paladin/level 12 warlock above). Also remember that hexblade uses Cha instead of str/dex, not in addition to. Hope this helps troubleshoot what may be happening!
Unless there is some reason Aura of Hate and Lifedrinker can't stack, at level 19 he can indeed get to 1dX+18 points of damage. They can't get there until level 19 so honestly it shouldn't really matter. Base 19 damage per attack is the least of one's worries with a 19th level character.
Exactly as Wish exists at this level for several casters and they are already putting out 3x this damage with spells each turn so its not a big deal.
Do this with polearm mastery and a quarterstaff for the bonus action dmg as well.
I'm guessing that he's accounting for a CHA tome to achieve a +6 CHA mod, in which case yes he can do 1d8+19, even 20 if you include improved pact weapon
Fair enough....would still be level 19 at least though? or am I missing a quicker route?
Yeah, I'm not seeing a quicker route anyhow. I mean, if this is going to be a short lvl 20 campaign, it does make sense that he's accounting for VR items, or whatever. Maybe odd he's not accounting for +3 weapons or something, who knows.
You know, this is actually a darn good build. If you built it like, maxed out CHA, PAM, and a staff of power... Yeesh, this thing is a power house. Access to mystic arcanum like force cage, mass suggestion along with all the typical goodies like smites. I have to ask, OP, what magic items are you allowing at creation?
If we go with both a tome and staff, plate and shield, defense fighting style, you're looking at a caster rocking at least 23 AC and +8 to every saving throw. And you'd still keep a +20 base damage modifier.
And at least 63 DPR just from melee.
Not to mention the invocations, spells, and other features from the classes. It's a serious disservice to write off the build as not being up to par just for lacking access to 8th and 9th lvl spells.
I was mostly saying its definitely good but.....most things are at 19th level is my point. Wish and what not make you immensely powerful just like this combo so its not out of line....everything just gets nutty at that level.
You also get Smites from this build as well!
If you want to see it in action:
Watch Critical Role Campaign 2.....Fjord does this exact combo and is a powerhouse.
Just let him have it. It's good damage but he's invested invocations and is giving up having really powerful warlock mystic arcanum to get it, and in the gap levels to get up to lv7 paladin they are actually going to be kind of underpowered until the aura comes online.
Honestly dealing with reliable damage is not an issue compared to spells like force cage, finger of death or demiplane etc. that the warlock could have at level 19
Look at something like a sorlock at that level, with just hex and quickin on a cantrip they can do 8d10+8d6+40 (112 avg.) with 80ft of knock back and -10ft movement.
.
I mean if he realllly wants to optimize, going pure hexblade by level 12 he can have a 1d10+15 to damage and then throw in GWM.
1d10 Glaive/Halberd + 5 cha + 5 cha (lifedrinker)+1 Improved pact weapon+ 4 (hexblade curse)
then with PAM there is a BA attack, then GWM is another +10 so real optimizing here is a lot worse and that doesn't include the UA Superior/Ultimate pact weapon
Multiclassing is an optional rule, if you are worried don't use it. I never allow it.
Abide.
Who hurt you?
1d8+5 charisma+4 hexblade’s curse +10 gwm?
"you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property." From the Hex Warrior entry. Hexblades can't use Great Weapon Master with a weapon tagged as Heavy.
<Insert clever signature here>