Its a wishlist. I wouldn't expect all of them to be implemented. The biggest ones I want to see is the INT based casting, EB as a class feature, patron spells always known and the number of spell slots expanded to follow your proficiency mod.
I despise the concept of class features using PB as a metric. Racial traits? Feats? Sure, they should absolutely use PB for those, and should have this whole time. IMO, class features should only ever scale by class level or Ability modifier. If Warlocks had their spell slot scale by PB, a 1 level dip into Warlock would eventually result in six 5th-level spell slots. (No bueno.) It would be better if they scaled at the same rate based on class level, 2@Warlock 1, 3@ Warlock 5, etc., but not actually by PB.
I didnt mean literally using PB to dictate the spell slot amount, I meant just having the numbers match to that level of warlock. They wouldn't be tied. so a level 1 dip would just have 2 level 1 pact slots no matter the levels in other classes, a 5 level dip would result in 3 3rd level pact slots. Does that make sense?
- Allow warlocks to cast spells at levels above 5th (for upcasting purposes) It makes no sense that you can cast a 6th level spell (yes, I know it's not called a spell, but it is), but can't cast any spell such as summon aberration above 5th.
More spell slots - At least CHA modifier plus PB.
More compelling invocations, or at least ones with fewer restrictions (They should all be once per short rest)
Most people agree that being able to cast 9th level spells makes you a full caster. Now their magic certainly works different, but they are still widely considered a full caster.
And it’s that very misconception that leads people to complain about how Warlocks “underperform” compared to “other full casters.” Despite the design differences, they have much more in common with Paladins and Artificers than Wizards and Sorcerers. They are less “full casters” and more “full caster equivalent.”
Spell slots to mirror Artificer and reset at long rest OR spell slots to equal proficiency bonus
Pact of the tome to give ritual caster instead of having to burn an invocation for it
Make patron spells always known and not count against spells known
Invocations uses are at will
People say they aren’t “caster-ey” enough. They say they want them to be boring cookie cutter copies of the other 8 caster classes. They’re “pseudo-casters.” They don’t work like other casters because they don’t get their goodies like the other casters. They cheated and stole ‘em, that’s why they work like “hacked” casters, they are hacked casters.
I mean, yea, I get people want them to work the same, but none of the changes or lack there of will have people stop viewing them as a the same type of full caster that a Wizard, Sorcere, Cleric or Druid are.
But fwiw, I *love* the way Pact Magic works and hope they don't change it. Maybe change *when* they get their third pact magic slot...maybe give them the additional one that does not come back on a short rest, so like an X + 1 thing, like you suggested.
But my suggestion doesn't change Pact Magic and going from 1 use of the 6th and 7th Mystic Arcanum (current RAW) to 2 of each *at level 20* vs your suggestion of 2 uses of the 6th at level 18 and no 7th ever isn't going to change the way people view the class or have the people that want regular spell. It gives them more usages of the high level spells, but they still can't upcast past level 5
Personally, I really like Warlocks being CHA based. I think it has good synergy with Deception, Persuasion and Intimidation
Arcana, History and to a lesser extent Religion fit the class, but given they don't get their powers through Studying I think INT isn't as good of a fit as CHA
Almost half of all campaigns end by 6th/7th level and the vast majority of the rest end between 12th and 15th. Honestly, anything above that will see such little play it isn’t really worth worrying about all that much.
To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact. Being able to persuade, or deceive isn't going to get you anywhere in making a deal with an otherworldly being. I do like the invocation that give you proficiency in persuasion and deception and I think that would be great if you were an INT based character, I think its repetitive if you're a CHA based character. Hell even Crawford said they originally designed the warlock to be an INT caster. They only changed it because that's what playtest data showed people liked. The issues is look at all the shenanigans that can be had with a could level dip, coffeelock, pallock, bardlock, etc. In all my games I can think of 2 times someone has played a mono-classed warlock and im one of them and that's only because my DM nerfs the ability to use pact slots for spells and abilities that aren't for the warlock, so for instance no sorlock converting pact slots into sorcery points, no paladins using pact slots for divine smites, etc.
If that's what you're looking to fix, just know you'll see Hexblade+Eldritch Knights and Hexblade+Artificer if you switch to INT.
Probably will see just as many Wizlocks as Sorclocks, so I'm not sure what problem switch to INT fixes.
May even see a few Arcane Tricksters take a level of Hexblade...imagine. They would get access to Shields and Medium Armor, so their AC can easily get to 18 (breast plate 14 AC) + shield (2 AC) + 14 DEX (2 AC) which equals 18 AC...19 if they use half plate...both of which are higher than they can get without magic armor or spells. They can now also use a lance if they wanted, given them a 1d12 for their damage roll that uses INT so they can stay at 14 DEX and get sneak attack...with medium armor, a shield and a lance
The problem is Hex Blade's get *way* to much at level 1 and you get the full benefit of Eldritch Blast with 2 levels in Warlock
Move CHA weapons to being a Pact of the Blade feature...forces Paladins to take 3 levels of Warlock, which at that point, **** it, let them get a CHA weapon
Also having Eldritch Blast scale *only* with Warlock level hampers Sorclock and Bardlocks so they'll probably only have 1 ray that does 1d10+5 damage. Which is less than a 5th level firebolt.
Again, if they actually invest in a Warlock enough to take 5 levels, then **** it, let them have it, but even then a (1d10+5)*2 is 5 dpr more than 3d10 and that 5 levels costs 2-3 levels worth of spells and a lot of spell slots. Not saying people won't do it and not saying it won't be effective, but it at least makes them earn it
Yes you would still see multi classing but the shenanigans and synergy won't be there with artificers and wizards like what you get from multi classing a paladin or sorcerer into warlock for a couple levels. IF the caveat were made that pact slots and spell slots were separate and not interchangeable with features that effect the other AND make EB scale only with warlock levels instead of overall character level then you eliminate shenanigans. But thematically I still feel like a warlock is an INT caster not a CHA caster.
To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact.
I actually have yet to make a warlock that studied or researched for their pact, old-school Lovecraft character style
Usually my pacts are a result of happenstance -- the character agrees to something not really knowing what they are agreeing to, or encounters a being who needs them to be their servant/vessel/avatar in the world and won't take no for an answer, or receives what seems like a boon at the time but then begins to look more and more like a curse
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact.
I actually have yet to make a warlock that studied or researched for their pact, old-school Lovecraft character style
Usually my pacts are a result of happenstance -- the character agrees to something not really knowing what they are agreeing to, or encounters a being who needs them to be their servant/vessel/avatar in the world and won't take no for an answer, or receives what seems like a boon at the time but then begins to look more and more like a curse
Which goes directly contra to the lord for the class:
“Warlocks are seekers of the knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse.”
Delvers into Secrets
Warlocks are driven by an insatiable need for knowledge and power, which compels them into their pacts and shapes their lives. This thirst drives warlocks into their pacts and shapes their later careers as well.
Stories of warlocks binding themselves to fiends are widely known. But many warlocks serve patrons that are not fiendish. Sometimes a traveler in the wilds comes to a strangely beautiful tower, meets its fey lord or lady, and stumbles into a pact without being fully aware of it. And sometimes, while poring over tomes of forbidden lore, a brilliant but crazed student’s mind is opened to realities beyond the material world and to the alien beings that dwell in the outer void.
Once a pact is made, a warlock’s thirst for knowledge and power can’t be slaked with mere study and research. No one makes a pact with such a mighty patron if he or she doesn’t intend to use the power thus gained. Rather, the vast majority of warlocks spend their days in active pursuit of their goals, which typically means some kind of adventuring. Furthermore, the demands of their patrons drive warlocks toward adventure.
To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact.
I actually have yet to make a warlock that studied or researched for their pact, old-school Lovecraft character style
Usually my pacts are a result of happenstance -- the character agrees to something not really knowing what they are agreeing to, or encounters a being who needs them to be their servant/vessel/avatar in the world and won't take no for an answer, or receives what seems like a boon at the time but then begins to look more and more like a curse
Which goes directly contra to the lord for the class:
“Warlocks are seekers of the knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse.”
Delvers into Secrets
Warlocks are driven by an insatiable need for knowledge and power, which compels them into their pacts and shapes their lives. This thirst drives warlocks into their pacts and shapes their later careers as well.
Stories of warlocks binding themselves to fiends are widely known. But many warlocks serve patrons that are not fiendish. Sometimes a traveler in the wilds comes to a strangely beautiful tower, meets its fey lord or lady, and stumbles into a pact without being fully aware of it. And sometimes, while poring over tomes of forbidden lore, a brilliant but crazed student’s mind is opened to realities beyond the material world and to the alien beings that dwell in the outer void.
Once a pact is made, a warlock’s thirst for knowledge and power can’t be slaked with mere study and research. No one makes a pact with such a mighty patron if he or she doesn’t intend to use the power thus gained. Rather, the vast majority of warlocks spend their days in active pursuit of their goals, which typically means some kind of adventuring. Furthermore, the demands of their patrons drive warlocks toward adventure.
Oh, OK
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Honestly I think Warlock is a pretty well-rounded class and none of the sub-classes need anything major done to them; my main wish list feature for the class itself is a rebalancing of some of the Eldritch Invocations, as there are some that just rarely ever get taken.
I'd also maybe change some of the eldritch blast specific invocations to work with any damage cantrip; let us build blaster warlocks with some more variety.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact.
I actually have yet to make a warlock that studied or researched for their pact, old-school Lovecraft character style
Usually my pacts are a result of happenstance -- the character agrees to something not really knowing what they are agreeing to, or encounters a being who needs them to be their servant/vessel/avatar in the world and won't take no for an answer, or receives what seems like a boon at the time but then begins to look more and more like a curse
Which goes directly contra to the lord for the class:
“Warlocks are seekers of the knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse.”
Delvers into Secrets
Warlocks are driven by an insatiable need for knowledge and power, which compels them into their pacts and shapes their lives.This thirst drives warlocks into their pacts and shapes their later careers as well.
Stories of warlocks binding themselves to fiends are widely known. But many warlocks serve patrons that are not fiendish. Sometimes a traveler in the wilds comes to a strangely beautiful tower, meets its fey lord or lady, and stumbles into a pact without being fully aware of it.And sometimes, while poring over tomes of forbidden lore, a brilliant but crazed student’s mind is opened to realities beyond the material world and to the alien beings that dwell in the outer void.
Once a pact is made, a warlock’s thirst for knowledge and power can’t be slaked with mere study and research. No one makes a pact with such a mighty patron if he or she doesn’t intend to use the power thus gained. Rather, the vast majority of warlocks spend their days in active pursuit of their goals, which typically means some kind of adventuring. Furthermore, the demands of their patrons drive warlocks toward adventure.
Oh, OK
I’ll see your 1 “exception” sentence and raise you 5 sentences all about them being bookworm nerdy types.👆
I don’t care about WotC lore for the subclass. I care about the mechanics and will happily write whatever the heck lore and flavor I want for my characters.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
1. All Warlock spells should be designed to upcast if it makes any sense, the class's spellcasting is designed around it and Hunger of Hadar doesn't upcast. Thats just bad design.
2. While its fine stopping access of spells known at 5th level, I think effective spell level you can upcast to should continue up to 9th.
3. Mystic Arcanums should be able to upcast into higher mystic arcanum slots.
4. Eldritch blast a class feature.,
5. Increase invocation progression. There isn;t much room to round out your character with invocations until very high levels.
6. Pact of the blade should use the caster stat as a default.
7. Change primary stat to int, it fits their core concept better.
8. Fix the dud invocations. Thief of ill fates its bane and it not only is only once a day but uses a spell slot. Once per long rest isn't terrible if it was an extra and didn't also use your slot. There are a lot of absolute dud invocations that no one takes. The first level spells at will should be morr universal in their requirements. Mask of many faces no pre-req, otherworldly leap 9th level WTF. Mask of many faces may be more thematically appropriate for some locks but for one going pact of the blade maybe not. If its going to be 9th level don't make it a spell to be cast, have it they have jump going as a permanent magical effect. Ascendant step either should be lower level or maybe a bit higher and remove the restriction of only casting it on yourself.
1. All Warlock spells should be designed to upcast if it makes any sense, the class's spellcasting is designed around it and Hunger of Hadar doesn't upcast. Thats just bad design.
Why a Warlock *only* spell wouldn't upcast to 5th level, always seemed weird to me
I don’t care about WotC lore for the subclass. I care about the mechanics and will happily write whatever the heck lore and flavor I want for my characters.
You’re right, I don’t care about lore, but I do care about mechanics and I think an Int’lock is prone to far, far less multiclass abuse than a Cha’lock is. But other people care about lore, and I got a varsity letter on the debate team.
Its a wishlist. I wouldn't expect all of them to be implemented. The biggest ones I want to see is the INT based casting, EB as a class feature, patron spells always known and the number of spell slots expanded to follow your proficiency mod.
I despise the concept of class features using PB as a metric. Racial traits? Feats? Sure, they should absolutely use PB for those, and should have this whole time. IMO, class features should only ever scale by class level or Ability modifier. If Warlocks had their spell slot scale by PB, a 1 level dip into Warlock would eventually result in six 5th-level spell slots. (No bueno.) It would be better if they scaled at the same rate based on class level, 2@Warlock 1, 3@ Warlock 5, etc., but not actually by PB.
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I didnt mean literally using PB to dictate the spell slot amount, I meant just having the numbers match to that level of warlock. They wouldn't be tied. so a level 1 dip would just have 2 level 1 pact slots no matter the levels in other classes, a 5 level dip would result in 3 3rd level pact slots. Does that make sense?
- Allow warlocks to cast spells at levels above 5th (for upcasting purposes) It makes no sense that you can cast a 6th level spell (yes, I know it's not called a spell, but it is), but can't cast any spell such as summon aberration above 5th.
More spell slots - At least CHA modifier plus PB.
More compelling invocations, or at least ones with fewer restrictions (They should all be once per short rest)
I mean, yea, I get people want them to work the same, but none of the changes or lack there of will have people stop viewing them as a the same type of full caster that a Wizard, Sorcere, Cleric or Druid are.
But fwiw, I *love* the way Pact Magic works and hope they don't change it. Maybe change *when* they get their third pact magic slot...maybe give them the additional one that does not come back on a short rest, so like an X + 1 thing, like you suggested.
But my suggestion doesn't change Pact Magic and going from 1 use of the 6th and 7th Mystic Arcanum (current RAW) to 2 of each *at level 20* vs your suggestion of 2 uses of the 6th at level 18 and no 7th ever isn't going to change the way people view the class or have the people that want regular spell. It gives them more usages of the high level spells, but they still can't upcast past level 5
Personally, I really like Warlocks being CHA based. I think it has good synergy with Deception, Persuasion and Intimidation
Arcana, History and to a lesser extent Religion fit the class, but given they don't get their powers through Studying I think INT isn't as good of a fit as CHA
Almost half of all campaigns end by 6th/7th level and the vast majority of the rest end between 12th and 15th. Honestly, anything above that will see such little play it isn’t really worth worrying about all that much.
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To me it would take study, research and such to find out how to make a pact. Being able to persuade, or deceive isn't going to get you anywhere in making a deal with an otherworldly being. I do like the invocation that give you proficiency in persuasion and deception and I think that would be great if you were an INT based character, I think its repetitive if you're a CHA based character. Hell even Crawford said they originally designed the warlock to be an INT caster. They only changed it because that's what playtest data showed people liked. The issues is look at all the shenanigans that can be had with a could level dip, coffeelock, pallock, bardlock, etc. In all my games I can think of 2 times someone has played a mono-classed warlock and im one of them and that's only because my DM nerfs the ability to use pact slots for spells and abilities that aren't for the warlock, so for instance no sorlock converting pact slots into sorcery points, no paladins using pact slots for divine smites, etc.
If that's what you're looking to fix, just know you'll see Hexblade+Eldritch Knights and Hexblade+Artificer if you switch to INT.
Probably will see just as many Wizlocks as Sorclocks, so I'm not sure what problem switch to INT fixes.
May even see a few Arcane Tricksters take a level of Hexblade...imagine. They would get access to Shields and Medium Armor, so their AC can easily get to 18 (breast plate 14 AC) + shield (2 AC) + 14 DEX (2 AC) which equals 18 AC...19 if they use half plate...both of which are higher than they can get without magic armor or spells. They can now also use a lance if they wanted, given them a 1d12 for their damage roll that uses INT so they can stay at 14 DEX and get sneak attack...with medium armor, a shield and a lance
The problem is Hex Blade's get *way* to much at level 1 and you get the full benefit of Eldritch Blast with 2 levels in Warlock
Move CHA weapons to being a Pact of the Blade feature...forces Paladins to take 3 levels of Warlock, which at that point, **** it, let them get a CHA weapon
Also having Eldritch Blast scale *only* with Warlock level hampers Sorclock and Bardlocks so they'll probably only have 1 ray that does 1d10+5 damage. Which is less than a 5th level firebolt.
Again, if they actually invest in a Warlock enough to take 5 levels, then **** it, let them have it, but even then a (1d10+5)*2 is 5 dpr more than 3d10 and that 5 levels costs 2-3 levels worth of spells and a lot of spell slots. Not saying people won't do it and not saying it won't be effective, but it at least makes them earn it
Yes you would still see multi classing but the shenanigans and synergy won't be there with artificers and wizards like what you get from multi classing a paladin or sorcerer into warlock for a couple levels. IF the caveat were made that pact slots and spell slots were separate and not interchangeable with features that effect the other AND make EB scale only with warlock levels instead of overall character level then you eliminate shenanigans. But thematically I still feel like a warlock is an INT caster not a CHA caster.
I actually have yet to make a warlock that studied or researched for their pact, old-school Lovecraft character style
Usually my pacts are a result of happenstance -- the character agrees to something not really knowing what they are agreeing to, or encounters a being who needs them to be their servant/vessel/avatar in the world and won't take no for an answer, or receives what seems like a boon at the time but then begins to look more and more like a curse
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Which goes directly contra to the lord for the class:
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Oh, OK
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
- 3rd Spellslot at Lvl 7, 4th Spellslot at Lvl 13, 5th Spellslot at Lvl 19
- Choose one of the two spells from the extended subclass spelllists to be known in addition to the normal progression known spells
- Eldritch Blast scaling of warlock levels
- Pact of the Blade making you hit with CHA
That would make me happy :-)
Honestly I think Warlock is a pretty well-rounded class and none of the sub-classes need anything major done to them; my main wish list feature for the class itself is a rebalancing of some of the Eldritch Invocations, as there are some that just rarely ever get taken.
I'd also maybe change some of the eldritch blast specific invocations to work with any damage cantrip; let us build blaster warlocks with some more variety.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I’ll see your 1 “exception” sentence and raise you 5 sentences all about them being bookworm nerdy types.👆
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Next time I create a warlock, O Mighty LoreKeeper, I'll be sure to run the backstory by you first to make sure it's up to code
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The things I'd want.
1. All Warlock spells should be designed to upcast if it makes any sense, the class's spellcasting is designed around it and Hunger of Hadar doesn't upcast. Thats just bad design.
2. While its fine stopping access of spells known at 5th level, I think effective spell level you can upcast to should continue up to 9th.
3. Mystic Arcanums should be able to upcast into higher mystic arcanum slots.
4. Eldritch blast a class feature.,
5. Increase invocation progression. There isn;t much room to round out your character with invocations until very high levels.
6. Pact of the blade should use the caster stat as a default.
7. Change primary stat to int, it fits their core concept better.
8. Fix the dud invocations. Thief of ill fates its bane and it not only is only once a day but uses a spell slot. Once per long rest isn't terrible if it was an extra and didn't also use your slot. There are a lot of absolute dud invocations that no one takes. The first level spells at will should be morr universal in their requirements. Mask of many faces no pre-req, otherworldly leap 9th level WTF. Mask of many faces may be more thematically appropriate for some locks but for one going pact of the blade maybe not. If its going to be 9th level don't make it a spell to be cast, have it they have jump going as a permanent magical effect. Ascendant step either should be lower level or maybe a bit higher and remove the restriction of only casting it on yourself.
Why a Warlock *only* spell wouldn't upcast to 5th level, always seemed weird to me
You’re right, I don’t care about lore, but I do care about mechanics and I think an Int’lock is prone to far, far less multiclass abuse than a Cha’lock is. But other people care about lore, and I got a varsity letter on the debate team.
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