So, I've noticed lately that almost all warlocks I've seen have the hexblade subclass. I know that the Hexblade is brokenly powerful when multiclassed with other charisma-based classes, but it seems like the overwhelming majority of warlocks who aren't multiclassed also follow that specific pact.
This has left me wondering: Is the hexblade so brokenly overpowered that it overshadows all the other warlocks? I know that it is a popular choice among minmaxers who call their characters "builds" and like to use overused combinations of features to deal absurd amounts of damage. But is it the only viable option even for people who don't emphasize their stats above all else? I'd like to know.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
I personally think the Genie Warlock is better. Wish and Limited Wish are obviously very powerful, but Spike Growth is also very strong with Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar. Spike Growth damages any creature that moves through the area without a saving throw and regardless of the movement being willing or forced. It can also act as crowd control, because it is difficult terrain. And you can use this combo as early as level 3.
Finally, the ability to provide your party a short rest within 10 minutes without expending any resources is phenomenal. Especially since you, the warlock, also benefit from that. This means easier access to more spell slots. An ability that other warlocks would kill to have.
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If you play pact of the blade, hexblade offers things very early that are difficult to pass up. It offers solutions (armor, cha based attack) that immediately solve some of the bigger issues with the pact of the blade. For the other pacts I don't think Hexblade is automatically better. A cha based weapon attack isn't that useful for an EB+AB build for example.
The main competition on pact of the blade is offered by Genie (bonus damage), Fiend (temp hp), and Undead (bonus damage, temp hp, and fear effect).
Hexblade has some useful class features, like medium armour and shield proficiency, which can be helpful regardless of the pact you take.
I think that's its strongest feature. Shield and Cone of Cold on its spell list are fairly good (although Shield burns through Warlock's limited spell slots very quickly). The Smite spells probably won't be that useful for non-Pact of the Blade builds.
I don't know if I'd say that it was much better mechanically, but it does have some advantages, especially in durability.
Effectively taking Hexblade gives you the Moderately Armored feat for free, or at least with the marginal cost of not being quite as good at certain things (like casting Fireball) that other Warlock Patrons offer.
I think the biggest problem mechanically for Warlocks is that their limited spell slots mean that typically they'll cast one or two spells, then be back to casting Eldritch Blast. If your main function is Eldritch Blast spambot then the spells your Patron offer really isn't a major selling point, and it comes down to what else the Patron offers. By that measure the Hexblade stacks up well.
I think hexblade is by far the COOLEST warlock subclass. Dark, arcane-flavored gish caster. Ooh! That just drips and oozes with COOL. But, there are some issues with it that I think make it mechanically inferior to other warlock subclasses. Let's look at some of it's shortcomings:
If you're playing hexblade, you're probably using pact of the blade. Nothing wrong with it, but using it means you're taking a pact that allows you to take essential features other martials get as part of their basic package, at the cost of missing out on very useful and strong invocations.
You're not quite squishy, but not really quite tanky either. Medium armor+shield is just the bare minimum for being tanky enough for the frontlines, but that doesn't make your melee damage all that strong. Go with a GWM build, and now you're definitely on the squishy side if you don't compensate with defensive spells like Shadow of Moil. It's a rough balancing act other martials don't have to worry about because they got fighting styles or features to balance out or improve their strengths.
Due to not being as tanky, you're probably going to burn your spell slots fairly quickly on Shield spell. Nothing wrong with that, but again, it just doesn't carry the same weight as using that spell slot for something like fog cloud, or spike growth, or even fireball in some subclasses.
I could probably get into saying how hexblades really want to invest into either warcaster or gwm in order to optimize, while other warlocks might be okay with shooting straight for 20 CHA, but that could just be a personal thing I feel. And, again, my feelings regarding the hexblade are often tied to the assumption that you're taking pact of the blade and playing the class as a potential fronliner gish.
But if you look at other warlocks, and the potential choices they have with other pacts, it becomes very clear that hexblade isn't mechanically superior at all. Since genie was mentioned, I'd like to follow up on that since the post did say they're great, but focused more on late game stuff. I'd like to highlight some of their early and mid-game stuff.
Genie's wrath is a great tool for making the genie a really strong blaster in tier 1. Their damage becomes incredibly consistent with eldritch blast. If you assumed taking agonizing blast, using hex, and genie's wrath, your eldritch blast will do a minimum of 6 damage a round. Minimum! Could go as high as 20!
elemental gift grants you access to concentration-less flight as a bonus action! That's incredible, and right from lvl 6! Already, flying will cover you from a huge portion of monsters.
their spell list is top tier. You could go with dao for spike growth, blunt damage resistance, and access to wall of stone. Or you could go efreeti so you can toss out fireballs and do it more frequently with easy access to short rests thanks to your genie's vessel.
they're the warlock with the easiest method to gain short rests thanks to their vessel. You could always have someone carry your vessel while you chill inside. You could reliably gain another short rest in this manner. If there's not much time? 10th level feature makes it so you get a short rest in 10 minutes while inside. That's so so sooo good.
None of that even touches on the flexibility granted by using other pact boons. Want to be a versatile caster with loads of cantrips? tome pact. Want a little minion that can act as the ultimate spy? Chain pact! Pact of the chain has proven so strong it made an entire campaign a snorefest for me. That's how good it was at scouting and getting information. Being given a magical weapon that can appear out of thin air is cool, and it might even be strong against a number of enemies, but it's not as strong as having useful information and avoiding entire encounters when you know they're around the corner and just not go there. You're saving resources not just for yourself but the party when you do that sort of thing.
I love hexblade, don't get me wrong, and it definitely deserves to be called a top tier warlock. But strongest warlock? Naaah!
I think hexblade is by far the COOLEST warlock subclass. Dark, arcane-flavored gish caster. Ooh! That just drips and oozes with COOL. But, there are some issues with it that I think make it mechanically inferior to other warlock subclasses. Let's look at some of it's shortcomings:
If you're playing hexblade, you're probably using pact of the blade. Nothing wrong with it, but using it means you're taking a pact that allows you to take essential features other martials get as part of their basic package, at the cost of missing out on very useful and strong invocations.
You're not quite squishy, but not really quite tanky either. Medium armor+shield is just the bare minimum for being tanky enough for the frontlines, but that doesn't make your melee damage all that strong. Go with a GWM build, and now you're definitely on the squishy side if you don't compensate with defensive spells like Shadow of Moil. It's a rough balancing act other martials don't have to worry about because they got fighting styles or features to balance out or improve their strengths.
Due to not being as tanky, you're probably going to burn your spell slots fairly quickly on Shield spell. Nothing wrong with that, but again, it just doesn't carry the same weight as using that spell slot for something like fog cloud, or spike growth, or even fireball in some subclasses.
I could probably get into saying how hexblades really want to invest into either warcaster or gwm in order to optimize, while other warlocks might be okay with shooting straight for 20 CHA, but that could just be a personal thing I feel. And, again, my feelings regarding the hexblade are often tied to the assumption that you're taking pact of the blade and playing the class as a potential fronliner gish.
But if you look at other warlocks, and the potential choices they have with other pacts, it becomes very clear that hexblade isn't mechanically superior at all. Since genie was mentioned, I'd like to follow up on that since the post did say they're great, but focused more on late game stuff. I'd like to highlight some of their early and mid-game stuff.
Genie's wrath is a great tool for making the genie a really strong blaster in tier 1. Their damage becomes incredibly consistent with eldritch blast. If you assumed taking agonizing blast, using hex, and genie's wrath, your eldritch blast will do a minimum of 6 damage a round. Minimum! Could go as high as 20!
elemental gift grants you access to concentration-less flight as a bonus action! That's incredible, and right from lvl 6! Already, flying will cover you from a huge portion of monsters.
their spell list is top tier. You could go with dao for spike growth, blunt damage resistance, and access to wall of stone. Or you could go efreeti so you can toss out fireballs and do it more frequently with easy access to short rests thanks to your genie's vessel.
they're the warlock with the easiest method to gain short rests thanks to their vessel. You could always have someone carry your vessel while you chill inside. You could reliably gain another short rest in this manner. If there's not much time? 10th level feature makes it so you get a short rest in 10 minutes while inside. That's so so sooo good.
None of that even touches on the flexibility granted by using other pact boons. Want to be a versatile caster with loads of cantrips? tome pact. Want a little minion that can act as the ultimate spy? Chain pact! Pact of the chain has proven so strong it made an entire campaign a snorefest for me. That's how good it was at scouting and getting information. Being given a magical weapon that can appear out of thin air is cool, and it might even be strong against a number of enemies, but it's not as strong as having useful information and avoiding entire encounters when you know they're around the corner and just not go there. You're saving resources not just for yourself but the party when you do that sort of thing.
I love hexblade, don't get me wrong, and it definitely deserves to be called a top tier warlock. But strongest warlock? Naaah!
I mostly agree, but think hexblade is the best warlock. As you point out, Shield spell will end up eating your spell slots and doesn't scale, so MC is almost a must imo.
It might be one of the strongest subclasses, but I think the bigger deal is its versatility.
All warlocks benefit from medium armor, the ability to use weapons with their charisma modifier, and a free casting of a better version of hex once per short rest.
Its good for a multi-classing, good for a gish spellblade, good a straight spellcaster who is going to end up spamming hex+eldritch blast when their slots are used up. It gives a class with somewhat sparse options a bit more versatility.
Shield spell on a warlock is terribly bad. I do not recommend at all. Instead I recommend using armor of agathys to increase your survivability. That combined with shadow of moil makes you both hard to hit and "costly" to hit. By costly I mean if the enemy hits you, he's going to take a lot of damage. Without rolling, without possible salvation. If he hits you, he's going to take damage. You're obviously vulnerable to dispel magic, but some countermeasure had to have that combo.
What I do agree is that you are not a tank. In fact, you are just the opposite: Someone the monsters don't want to hit because it's too costly. Especially if they make a lot of relatively weak attacks. With that combo I have seen many hordes die alone.
If we add to that that the best build for a hexblade is GWM + Elven Accuracy, you are going to do a lot of damage every turn. And, furthermore, starting at level 10, any monster cursed by your Hexblade's Curse will have a 50% chance to not hit you once per turn (if you were already difficult to hit, now it's a laugh). So your role is going to be the boss killer. Go for the greater enemy, curse it, and smash it with crits.
Now, having said that. To the question: Is the hexblade the best warlock? My answer is emphatically no. The Genie is better. Everything he gives you is fantastic, and allows you to fill many roles. The undead (not the undaying, I've seen people get confused), is fantastic too. And many others, thanks to the eldritch invocations that buff eldritch blast, are as good or better than hexblade. The hexblade is very good at what it does, but there are other rounder subclasses.
No in single class characters it is not close to the best. I would put Genie and Undead well above Hexblade and Fathomless generally better depending on the campaign.
Genie and Undead can also be built to be about as good a bladelock as Hexblade, despite being MAD. Hexblade uses Charisma for attacks but as a subclass that is all it really has going for it and Genies and Undeads can bring solid abilities and better subclass spells to melee. With a smart racial choice they are going to keep up with single-class Hexblades in melee generally.
Where Hexblade shines is in a multiclass. This is particularly true for Paladins, but you can build a solid melee sorcerer or Bard with a Hexblade dip too.
So, I've noticed lately that almost all warlocks I've seen have the hexblade subclass. I know that the Hexblade is brokenly powerful when multiclassed with other charisma-based classes, but it seems like the overwhelming majority of warlocks who aren't multiclassed also follow that specific pact.
This has left me wondering: Is the hexblade so brokenly overpowered that it overshadows all the other warlocks? I know that it is a popular choice among minmaxers who call their characters "builds" and like to use overused combinations of features to deal absurd amounts of damage. But is it the only viable option even for people who don't emphasize their stats above all else? I'd like to know.
The most powerful Warlock subclass is Genie starting at level 17 (potentially level 14, if your DM newbsauces fixing WOTC's word salad in the L14 ability). A Hexblade can't even begin to compare. The reason Hexblade is so popular is the L1 benefits, not the rest of its ability set. In fact, Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3 amounts to the most powerful build in the game unless your DM stops you.
Shield doesn't mess with action economy, and its worth it in a given situation from level 1 to level 20.
There are two big problems with it on a single class warlock:
1. Only 2 castings per short rest.
2. Using higher level pact slot on a spell that does not upcast well.
If you are using shield as a single class Hexblade in melee, that is pretty much the only spell you are going to cast below level 6. You are giving up casting spells like Fear, Banishment, Synaptic Static or Summon Fey for a buff that lasts part of one round.
Shield is great on a Hexblade multiclass where you can use 1st level spell slots for it. It is effectively a must have on a Hexadin or HexBard.
Suppose you cast AoA and SoM. Great, you got some temps and you're likely hard to hit. Cool! But then, your DM utters those dreaded words: "make a dex save." Mind you, those words aren't exactly rare. Quite the opposite in fact. And you're not exactly great at those.
Now you roll for concentration, and likely you're not Great at those either unless you built for it with eldritch mind... if only you didn't use those invocations for thirsting blade and improved pact weapon, and agonizing blast. Great, you lose concentration and your temps are gone. Now what? Now you're out of slots, just like that. And more than that, you're defenseless. Not the situation I'd like to be in.
So, I've noticed lately that almost all warlocks I've seen have the hexblade subclass. I know that the Hexblade is brokenly powerful when multiclassed with other charisma-based classes, but it seems like the overwhelming majority of warlocks who aren't multiclassed also follow that specific pact.
This has left me wondering: Is the hexblade so brokenly overpowered that it overshadows all the other warlocks? I know that it is a popular choice among minmaxers who call their characters "builds" and like to use overused combinations of features to deal absurd amounts of damage. But is it the only viable option even for people who don't emphasize their stats above all else? I'd like to know.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish, I think.
I personally think the Genie Warlock is better. Wish and Limited Wish are obviously very powerful, but Spike Growth is also very strong with Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar. Spike Growth damages any creature that moves through the area without a saving throw and regardless of the movement being willing or forced. It can also act as crowd control, because it is difficult terrain. And you can use this combo as early as level 3.
Finally, the ability to provide your party a short rest within 10 minutes without expending any resources is phenomenal. Especially since you, the warlock, also benefit from that. This means easier access to more spell slots. An ability that other warlocks would kill to have.
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Wish is very high level. 8-12 is more realistic for most campaigns.
Personally, I've never reached a "wish" campaign. The "come the revolution" campaign is just a... wish.
If you play pact of the blade, hexblade offers things very early that are difficult to pass up. It offers solutions (armor, cha based attack) that immediately solve some of the bigger issues with the pact of the blade. For the other pacts I don't think Hexblade is automatically better. A cha based weapon attack isn't that useful for an EB+AB build for example.
The main competition on pact of the blade is offered by Genie (bonus damage), Fiend (temp hp), and Undead (bonus damage, temp hp, and fear effect).
I don't play pact of the blade. Too many Eldritch Invocations are alreadyspoken for.
Matters.
It doesn't matter.
What matters is that your rogue is fun, and fits into the world.
Hexblade has some useful class features, like medium armour and shield proficiency, which can be helpful regardless of the pact you take.
I think that's its strongest feature. Shield and Cone of Cold on its spell list are fairly good (although Shield burns through Warlock's limited spell slots very quickly). The Smite spells probably won't be that useful for non-Pact of the Blade builds.
Hexblade's curse works fine with Eldritch Blast.
I don't know if I'd say that it was much better mechanically, but it does have some advantages, especially in durability.
Effectively taking Hexblade gives you the Moderately Armored feat for free, or at least with the marginal cost of not being quite as good at certain things (like casting Fireball) that other Warlock Patrons offer.
I think the biggest problem mechanically for Warlocks is that their limited spell slots mean that typically they'll cast one or two spells, then be back to casting Eldritch Blast. If your main function is Eldritch Blast spambot then the spells your Patron offer really isn't a major selling point, and it comes down to what else the Patron offers. By that measure the Hexblade stacks up well.
I think hexblade is by far the COOLEST warlock subclass. Dark, arcane-flavored gish caster. Ooh! That just drips and oozes with COOL. But, there are some issues with it that I think make it mechanically inferior to other warlock subclasses. Let's look at some of it's shortcomings:
I could probably get into saying how hexblades really want to invest into either warcaster or gwm in order to optimize, while other warlocks might be okay with shooting straight for 20 CHA, but that could just be a personal thing I feel. And, again, my feelings regarding the hexblade are often tied to the assumption that you're taking pact of the blade and playing the class as a potential fronliner gish.
But if you look at other warlocks, and the potential choices they have with other pacts, it becomes very clear that hexblade isn't mechanically superior at all. Since genie was mentioned, I'd like to follow up on that since the post did say they're great, but focused more on late game stuff. I'd like to highlight some of their early and mid-game stuff.
None of that even touches on the flexibility granted by using other pact boons. Want to be a versatile caster with loads of cantrips? tome pact. Want a little minion that can act as the ultimate spy? Chain pact! Pact of the chain has proven so strong it made an entire campaign a snorefest for me. That's how good it was at scouting and getting information. Being given a magical weapon that can appear out of thin air is cool, and it might even be strong against a number of enemies, but it's not as strong as having useful information and avoiding entire encounters when you know they're around the corner and just not go there. You're saving resources not just for yourself but the party when you do that sort of thing.
I love hexblade, don't get me wrong, and it definitely deserves to be called a top tier warlock. But strongest warlock? Naaah!
I mostly agree, but think hexblade is the best warlock. As you point out, Shield spell will end up eating your spell slots and doesn't scale, so MC is almost a must imo.
It might be one of the strongest subclasses, but I think the bigger deal is its versatility.
All warlocks benefit from medium armor, the ability to use weapons with their charisma modifier, and a free casting of a better version of hex once per short rest.
Its good for a multi-classing, good for a gish spellblade, good a straight spellcaster who is going to end up spamming hex+eldritch blast when their slots are used up. It gives a class with somewhat sparse options a bit more versatility.
Shield spell on a warlock is terribly bad. I do not recommend at all. Instead I recommend using armor of agathys to increase your survivability. That combined with shadow of moil makes you both hard to hit and "costly" to hit. By costly I mean if the enemy hits you, he's going to take a lot of damage. Without rolling, without possible salvation. If he hits you, he's going to take damage. You're obviously vulnerable to dispel magic, but some countermeasure had to have that combo.
What I do agree is that you are not a tank. In fact, you are just the opposite: Someone the monsters don't want to hit because it's too costly. Especially if they make a lot of relatively weak attacks. With that combo I have seen many hordes die alone.
If we add to that that the best build for a hexblade is GWM + Elven Accuracy, you are going to do a lot of damage every turn. And, furthermore, starting at level 10, any monster cursed by your Hexblade's Curse will have a 50% chance to not hit you once per turn (if you were already difficult to hit, now it's a laugh). So your role is going to be the boss killer. Go for the greater enemy, curse it, and smash it with crits.
Now, having said that. To the question: Is the hexblade the best warlock? My answer is emphatically no. The Genie is better. Everything he gives you is fantastic, and allows you to fill many roles. The undead (not the undaying, I've seen people get confused), is fantastic too. And many others, thanks to the eldritch invocations that buff eldritch blast, are as good or better than hexblade. The hexblade is very good at what it does, but there are other rounder subclasses.
No in single class characters it is not close to the best. I would put Genie and Undead well above Hexblade and Fathomless generally better depending on the campaign.
Genie and Undead can also be built to be about as good a bladelock as Hexblade, despite being MAD. Hexblade uses Charisma for attacks but as a subclass that is all it really has going for it and Genies and Undeads can bring solid abilities and better subclass spells to melee. With a smart racial choice they are going to keep up with single-class Hexblades in melee generally.
Where Hexblade shines is in a multiclass. This is particularly true for Paladins, but you can build a solid melee sorcerer or Bard with a Hexblade dip too.
Its a difference in philosophy.
If armor of Agythos or shadow of Moil keeps enemies from attacking you... its not much of a benefit. You sink an action and a spell slot for nothing.
Worse, shadow of Moil can lose concentration with a lucky Goblin shot without doing any damage.
Shield doesn't mess with action economy, and its worth it in a given situation from level 1 to level 20.
The most powerful Warlock subclass is Genie starting at level 17 (potentially level 14, if your DM newbsauces fixing WOTC's word salad in the L14 ability). A Hexblade can't even begin to compare. The reason Hexblade is so popular is the L1 benefits, not the rest of its ability set. In fact, Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3 amounts to the most powerful build in the game unless your DM stops you.
There are two big problems with it on a single class warlock:
1. Only 2 castings per short rest.
2. Using higher level pact slot on a spell that does not upcast well.
If you are using shield as a single class Hexblade in melee, that is pretty much the only spell you are going to cast below level 6. You are giving up casting spells like Fear, Banishment, Synaptic Static or Summon Fey for a buff that lasts part of one round.
Shield is great on a Hexblade multiclass where you can use 1st level spell slots for it. It is effectively a must have on a Hexadin or HexBard.
If you take no damage, you don't check for concentration. They have to kill your temporary HP first.
Suppose you cast AoA and SoM. Great, you got some temps and you're likely hard to hit. Cool! But then, your DM utters those dreaded words: "make a dex save." Mind you, those words aren't exactly rare. Quite the opposite in fact. And you're not exactly great at those.
Now you roll for concentration, and likely you're not Great at those either unless you built for it with eldritch mind... if only you didn't use those invocations for thirsting blade and improved pact weapon, and agonizing blast. Great, you lose concentration and your temps are gone. Now what? Now you're out of slots, just like that. And more than that, you're defenseless. Not the situation I'd like to be in.