I have a player that sold his Genie Vessel ring to get his armor. Is there a way I can prevent them from making a new one? What I'm trying to do is have the BBEG obtain the ring he sold and prevent the warlock from being able to remake it. Sort of a hostage situation: do what I want or you don't get your vessel and you can't make a new one.
If the vessel is destroyed or you lose it, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and the previous vessel is destroyed if it still exists. The vessel vanishes in a flare of elemental power when you die
It's very straight forward. That said, you're the DM and you can do what you want. What you propose though is most certainly not in accordance with the rules.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Simple answer: Kill the Warlock and provide no way to get him rezzed or raised.
Or do something like lock the character in solitary confinement with separate chains around each limb, preventing him from doing the ceremony to resummon the vessel from his patron.
Actually, both of these are terrible. But so is stopping a player from letting their PC use one their core features (unless you plan on doing this to the whole party).
The easiest way to make a hostage situation is to take an actual hostage. Someone from the PC's backstory, for instance.
Simple answer: Kill the Warlock and provide no way to get him rezzed or raised.
Or do something like lock the character in solitary confinement with separate chains around each limb, preventing him from doing the ceremony to resummon the vessel from his patron.
Actually, both of these are terrible. But so is stopping a player from letting their PC use one their core features (unless you plan on doing this to the whole party).
The easiest way to make a hostage situation is to take an actual hostage. Someone from the PC's backstory, for instance.
This. DM's have such a power fantasy over holding warlocks ransom. Do as I say or I take your powers etc etc. That's not how it works.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The real problem here is not stopping him from remaking the vessel. The problem is that you let him sell it, knowing that he can remake it. All you can really do now is the consequences for cheating a merchant. (Is he still in town, or coming back? Was he in disguise?)
Unless there's a feature that is designed to make fake valuable items (which I doubt; it'd wreck the already-tenuous economy of the game), I strongly recommend having the players' remakable class objects have no value. (Genie vessels are traditionally "the old brass lamp", not "the shiny valuable decorative lamp".)
As it is, maybe there's something left behind that an enemy could use to magically track him. (Where 'enemy' could include 'the local merchants' guild'.)
Doesn’t the genie live in the vessel? When he sold the ring, he sold the genie as well or the genie is now homeless at least. You’d think the genie might have something to say about all this.
Genie warlocks don't have a genie on tap. The vessel is a resource for the warlock. The genie itself is somewhere else, probably the elemental planes, doing its own thing.
Genie warlocks don't have a genie on tap. The vessel is a resource for the warlock. The genie itself is somewhere else, probably the elemental planes, doing its own thing.
I suppose that works but is different than I envisioned for my character. My genie-lock is loosely based off the movie “3000 Years of Longing.” She definitely has a genie who lives in the vessel. He just can’t/won’t do any genie things over and above what the warlock class provides for her for reasons that are part of why he made a pact with her in the first place. He’d have something to say if she sold her vessel/his home for sure.
To play Asmodeus' Advocate, you might get them on a technicality.
They can conduct a 1 hour ritual to obtain a new vessel if their current one is destroyed or lost....based on the OP, its currently neither. If they sold it or bartered it away they know where it is; in the possession of which ever merchant they gave it to. If they go back to the merchant to get it back and find out its been sold and they find out who bought it then its still not lost, as they know who has it.
You could have the patron appear when they perform the ritual and ask them why they need a new vessel and then the patron can either say they don't get a new one as the old one is exactly where they left it, although this might be a bit mean, or you can let them have a new one but make sure the patron scolds them for being frivilous with the gifts it bestowed.
If you do want the BBEG to get the vessel for some reason then you might have the BBEG use the vessel to contact the genie and enter into negiotiations where the BBEG tries to buy the Warlock. You could have the genie contact the warlock and tell him that a powerful person has been in touch wanting to purchase the warlocks pact, in essence if the genie agree's the warlock finds their patron is now the BBEG.
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I would say during the ceremony the genie tells them off and that if they sell it again, they will consider this a violation of the pact and they would need to retrieve the vessel and earn back the genie's favour, re-establishing the pact, but getting back that favour is going to be a quest in itself. Until achieved, they cannot progress as a Warlock (they keep the levels they have and can use the features that don't directly rely on the vessel).
I might also consider a sneaky retcon and say the item they purchased with the gold they got for selling the vessel, was cursed. A strong one in the sense regular curse removal methods don't work, so it would require hunting down the vendor and learn about the curse and how to get rid of it. However, the effects themselves would be minor and nothing too punishing or detrimental.
They tried to trick the game - they got some minor consequences to not do it again and I get 3 new story hooks with RP potential entirely for free. Fair trade. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The real problem here is not stopping him from remaking the vessel. The problem is that you let him sell it, knowing that he can remake it. All you can really do now is the consequences for cheating a merchant. (Is he still in town, or coming back? Was he in disguise?)
Unless there's a feature that is designed to make fake valuable items (which I doubt; it'd wreck the already-tenuous economy of the game), I strongly recommend having the players' remakable class objects have no value. (Genie vessels are traditionally "the old brass lamp", not "the shiny valuable decorative lamp".)
As it is, maybe there's something left behind that an enemy could use to magically track him. (Where 'enemy' could include 'the local merchants' guild'.)
Perhaps the merchant he sold it to, is actually fronting for a large, powerful criminal organization. Powerful criminals don't like getting dunked on and humiliated by some scrub adventurers. I'd think that they'd want a bit of payback.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is really good perspective. I have no regrets letting him sell it, i thought it was clever, nor do I like to take away abilities/ subvert players. I am just running through ideas to create a deep sense of loathing for the BBEG by all of the players. I thought there might be an angle in that direction but it sounds like that would be a d!@k move. Thank you.
I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is really good perspective. I have no regrets letting him sell it, i thought it was clever, nor do I like to take away abilities/ subvert players. I am just running through ideas to create a deep sense of loathing for the BBEG by all of the players. I thought there might be an angle in that direction but it sounds like that would be a d!@k move. Thank you.
If that's the goal, just have the BBEG get possession of the ring, and then when the player performs the ritual to get it back, they find the BBEG has defiled the sanctum somehow. It's still usable for a rest -- no mechanical changes -- but the cushions are all ripped to shreds and the walls are splattered with blood (or worse), or the BBEG has hung a giant painting of themselves murdering the player's entire family , or whatever makes sense for them based on their personality and motivations
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is really good perspective. I have no regrets letting him sell it, i thought it was clever, nor do I like to take away abilities/ subvert players. I am just running through ideas to create a deep sense of loathing for the BBEG by all of the players. I thought there might be an angle in that direction but it sounds like that would be a d!@k move. Thank you.
It may have been clever, the first time. However, letting it stand without some kind of consequence will encourage your player to repeat the swindle for essentially free money over and over again. If you want to firmly put a stop to those antics, Cyb3rMind's suggestion of the patron being unhappy and giving them a warning not to do it again or else would probably do it.
The merchant paid for the vessel. They won't be happy at having it vanish and will rightfully conclude they've been swindled. The merchant may possibly report this to the guards. They will likely not do business with the warlock or any known associates again, and may call the guards on them if he spots them. Alternatively, the suggestion from other posters about the merchant having organized crime connections could also be an interesting angle.
To play Asmodeus' Advocate, you might get them on a technicality.
They can conduct a 1 hour ritual to obtain a new vessel if their current one is destroyed or lost....based on the OP, its currently neither. If they sold it or bartered it away they know where it is; in the possession of which ever merchant they gave it to. If they go back to the merchant to get it back and find out its been sold and they find out who bought it then its still not lost, as they know who has it.
You could have the patron appear when they perform the ritual and ask them why they need a new vessel and then the patron can either say they don't get a new one as the old one is exactly where they left it, although this might be a bit mean, or you can let them have a new one but make sure the patron scolds them for being frivilous with the gifts it bestowed.
If you do want the BBEG to get the vessel for some reason then you might have the BBEG use the vessel to contact the genie and enter into negiotiations where the BBEG tries to buy the Warlock. You could have the genie contact the warlock and tell him that a powerful person has been in touch wanting to purchase the warlocks pact, in essence if the genie agree's the warlock finds their patron is now the BBEG.
This is a potentially interesting angle as well. Invoking the Patron demi-god's wrath is often a fun story hook.
I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is really good perspective. I have no regrets letting him sell it, i thought it was clever, nor do I like to take away abilities/ subvert players. I am just running through ideas to create a deep sense of loathing for the BBEG by all of the players. I thought there might be an angle in that direction but it sounds like that would be a d!@k move. Thank you.
It may have been clever, the first time. However, letting it stand without some kind of consequence will encourage your player to repeat the swindle for essentially free money over and over again. If you want to firmly put a stop to those antics, Cyb3rMind's suggestion of the patron being unhappy and giving them a warning not to do it again or else would probably do it.
The merchant paid for the vessel. They won't be happy at having it vanish and will rightfully conclude they've been swindled. The merchant may possibly report this to the guards. They will likely not do business with the warlock or any known associates again, and may call the guards on them if he spots them. Alternatively, the suggestion from other posters about the merchant having organized crime connections could also be an interesting angle.
What is the swindle. The ring does not get destroyed when you replace it. The merchant bought a ring with a hidden compartment, and they still have it. If he conned them that it was a magic ring, or its cheap materials were valuable well that is a swindle, but they could also con them that the red sparking liquid in the bottle is a potion of healing when it really is just simple syrup with beet juice and some sparkling material. Their first one may have been valuable in some other way like its gold, with a ruby gemstone whatever the character payed for. The replacement though is of no particular value, using a short rest to conjure a couple copper piece ring isn't really a winning strategy.
What is the swindle. The ring does not get destroyed when you replace it.
Yes, it does
If the vessel is destroyed or you lose it, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and the previous vessel is destroyed if it still exists.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What is the swindle. The ring does not get destroyed when you replace it.
Yes, it does
If the vessel is destroyed or you lose it, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and the previous vessel is destroyed if it still exists.
Well so much for my memory. Still its a worthless bobble, how much can he sell it for. If he got piles of money for it, then he could swindle the person with a fork just as easily.
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I have a player that sold his Genie Vessel ring to get his armor. Is there a way I can prevent them from making a new one? What I'm trying to do is have the BBEG obtain the ring he sold and prevent the warlock from being able to remake it. Sort of a hostage situation: do what I want or you don't get your vessel and you can't make a new one.
By the rule as written? Absolutely not.
If the vessel is destroyed or you lose it, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and the previous vessel is destroyed if it still exists. The vessel vanishes in a flare of elemental power when you die
It's very straight forward. That said, you're the DM and you can do what you want. What you propose though is most certainly not in accordance with the rules.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Simple answer: Kill the Warlock and provide no way to get him rezzed or raised.
Or do something like lock the character in solitary confinement with separate chains around each limb, preventing him from doing the ceremony to resummon the vessel from his patron.
Actually, both of these are terrible. But so is stopping a player from letting their PC use one their core features (unless you plan on doing this to the whole party).
The easiest way to make a hostage situation is to take an actual hostage. Someone from the PC's backstory, for instance.
This. DM's have such a power fantasy over holding warlocks ransom. Do as I say or I take your powers etc etc. That's not how it works.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The real problem here is not stopping him from remaking the vessel. The problem is that you let him sell it, knowing that he can remake it. All you can really do now is the consequences for cheating a merchant. (Is he still in town, or coming back? Was he in disguise?)
Unless there's a feature that is designed to make fake valuable items (which I doubt; it'd wreck the already-tenuous economy of the game), I strongly recommend having the players' remakable class objects have no value. (Genie vessels are traditionally "the old brass lamp", not "the shiny valuable decorative lamp".)
As it is, maybe there's something left behind that an enemy could use to magically track him. (Where 'enemy' could include 'the local merchants' guild'.)
Doesn’t the genie live in the vessel? When he sold the ring, he sold the genie as well or the genie is now homeless at least. You’d think the genie might have something to say about all this.
Genie warlocks don't have a genie on tap. The vessel is a resource for the warlock. The genie itself is somewhere else, probably the elemental planes, doing its own thing.
I suppose that works but is different than I envisioned for my character. My genie-lock is loosely based off the movie “3000 Years of Longing.” She definitely has a genie who lives in the vessel. He just can’t/won’t do any genie things over and above what the warlock class provides for her for reasons that are part of why he made a pact with her in the first place. He’d have something to say if she sold her vessel/his home for sure.
To play Asmodeus' Advocate, you might get them on a technicality.
They can conduct a 1 hour ritual to obtain a new vessel if their current one is destroyed or lost....based on the OP, its currently neither. If they sold it or bartered it away they know where it is; in the possession of which ever merchant they gave it to. If they go back to the merchant to get it back and find out its been sold and they find out who bought it then its still not lost, as they know who has it.
You could have the patron appear when they perform the ritual and ask them why they need a new vessel and then the patron can either say they don't get a new one as the old one is exactly where they left it, although this might be a bit mean, or you can let them have a new one but make sure the patron scolds them for being frivilous with the gifts it bestowed.
If you do want the BBEG to get the vessel for some reason then you might have the BBEG use the vessel to contact the genie and enter into negiotiations where the BBEG tries to buy the Warlock. You could have the genie contact the warlock and tell him that a powerful person has been in touch wanting to purchase the warlocks pact, in essence if the genie agree's the warlock finds their patron is now the BBEG.
I would say during the ceremony the genie tells them off and that if they sell it again, they will consider this a violation of the pact and they would need to retrieve the vessel and earn back the genie's favour, re-establishing the pact, but getting back that favour is going to be a quest in itself. Until achieved, they cannot progress as a Warlock (they keep the levels they have and can use the features that don't directly rely on the vessel).
I might also consider a sneaky retcon and say the item they purchased with the gold they got for selling the vessel, was cursed. A strong one in the sense regular curse removal methods don't work, so it would require hunting down the vendor and learn about the curse and how to get rid of it. However, the effects themselves would be minor and nothing too punishing or detrimental.
They tried to trick the game - they got some minor consequences to not do it again and I get 3 new story hooks with RP potential entirely for free. Fair trade. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Perhaps the merchant he sold it to, is actually fronting for a large, powerful criminal organization. Powerful criminals don't like getting dunked on and humiliated by some scrub adventurers. I'd think that they'd want a bit of payback.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is really good perspective. I have no regrets letting him sell it, i thought it was clever, nor do I like to take away abilities/ subvert players. I am just running through ideas to create a deep sense of loathing for the BBEG by all of the players. I thought there might be an angle in that direction but it sounds like that would be a d!@k move. Thank you.
If that's the goal, just have the BBEG get possession of the ring, and then when the player performs the ritual to get it back, they find the BBEG has defiled the sanctum somehow. It's still usable for a rest -- no mechanical changes -- but the cushions are all ripped to shreds and the walls are splattered with blood (or worse), or the BBEG has hung a giant painting of themselves murdering the player's entire family , or whatever makes sense for them based on their personality and motivations
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It may have been clever, the first time. However, letting it stand without some kind of consequence will encourage your player to repeat the swindle for essentially free money over and over again. If you want to firmly put a stop to those antics, Cyb3rMind's suggestion of the patron being unhappy and giving them a warning not to do it again or else would probably do it.
The merchant paid for the vessel. They won't be happy at having it vanish and will rightfully conclude they've been swindled. The merchant may possibly report this to the guards. They will likely not do business with the warlock or any known associates again, and may call the guards on them if he spots them. Alternatively, the suggestion from other posters about the merchant having organized crime connections could also be an interesting angle.
This is a potentially interesting angle as well. Invoking the Patron demi-god's wrath is often a fun story hook.
What is the swindle. The ring does not get destroyed when you replace it. The merchant bought a ring with a hidden compartment, and they still have it. If he conned them that it was a magic ring, or its cheap materials were valuable well that is a swindle, but they could also con them that the red sparking liquid in the bottle is a potion of healing when it really is just simple syrup with beet juice and some sparkling material. Their first one may have been valuable in some other way like its gold, with a ruby gemstone whatever the character payed for. The replacement though is of no particular value, using a short rest to conjure a couple copper piece ring isn't really a winning strategy.
Yes, it does
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Well so much for my memory. Still its a worthless bobble, how much can he sell it for. If he got piles of money for it, then he could swindle the person with a fork just as easily.