So I was wondering if there was a way to optimize the short rest casting of Warlocks and came up with a 2nd level Warlock build to see what is possible.
2nd level Elf Warlock, take a old/custom background to get Magic Initiate Wizard for Mage Armor.
Invocations take Pact of the Chain, Agonizing blast and Lessons of the Firsts ones for Magic Initiate Druid with Goodberry
Each night you Long Rest for 4 hours (Elven Trance)
Wake up cast Armor of Agathys and Goodberry, Short Rest
Cast Goodberry twice, Short Rest, repeat
Cast Mage Armor on yourself and Familiar, Short Rest.
So 8 hours have Past, you have 50 Goodberries, Mage Armor up for 7 hours on you and your familiar and you have 5 Temp Hp.
Have you confused Pact of the Tome with Druid's wild companion? Pact of the Tome should not need daily re-casts and would be kinda evil if it did since it does not more the 10GP cost, additionally Pact of the Tome doesn't expend a pact slot.
What they're trying to ask is why you feel the need to cast Find Familiar every day, when the familiar from it does not have a set duration. It does if you cast it using the Druid's Wild Companion feature, but not if you cast it via Pact of the Chain. It also doesn't use a spell slot when you cast it that way.
I mean sure, not sure the mage armor trick is really worth your origin feat. But yeah you can do that. A druid with leftover slots can do the same good berry trick. And yeah sure, 40 hit points of healing between fights is pretty slick. I'd just suggest odds are your DM will tune encounters in a way that you need it so in the end its not that amazing. The armor of agathys is pointless though since its duration is only 1 hour.
If you take the mage armor invocation, you can cast it at will.
But I am struggling to see the point. If you have Pact of the chain, you can also cast find familiar every turn. So if it dies, the next turn get a new familiar.
Why have all of these rests to get 50 goodberrries? Don't they disappear in 24 hours?
...and you have 5 Temp Hp
If you get fiendish vigor invocation you get 8 temp points. and no spell is used.
I understand at 2nd level you have limited invocations, but all those rests do not sound very productive.
If you take the mage armor invocation, you can cast it at will.
But I am struggling to see the point. If you have Pact of the chain, you can also cast find familiar every turn. So if it dies, the next turn get a new familiar.
Why have all of these rests to get 50 goodberrries? Don't they disappear in 24 hours?
...and you have 5 Temp Hp
If you get fiendish vigor invocation you get 8 temp points. and no spell is used.
I understand at 2nd level you have limited invocations, but all those rests do not sound very productive.
You only have 3 invocations at level 2, this would need more than 3 invocations to get all the things they are trying to get. But I do agree that Fiendish Vigor is good, Mage Armor falls off a cliff once you get studded leather +1, but still good at level 2 since you won't have that yet.
Why? At second level EB + Hex +AB does 7.7 DPR with 60% to hit. Imp does 12.4. And you dont even have to be in the room.
Unrelated to the build discussion, but that is why I wish they had gone with some template for pact of the chain and had it scale with your warlock levels. A imp can solo some encounters at low levels but becomes worthless in a fight at medium to high levels. Heck maybe it should just be a summon that provided a passive buff with some quirks.
So apologies to everyone, I am currently using 2024 rules in my game and should have made that clear in the initial post.
Keep in mind the build was designed to see how you could stretch a warlocks resources at level 2. Once you start gaining levels you might want to approach it differently and replace the invocation for another.
For example Undead Patron Warlocks from UA get Fales Life and Death Ward on their lists both of which could work well, Starting each day at 7th level with 27 Thp sounds pretty good for just being an Elf.
That is not my reading of it, but if that is how your table runs it great.
The 2014 version of Armor of Agathys includes the very important phrase "for the duration" on the Temporary HP gain.
The 2024 version of Armor of Agathys does not include those words.
Surprised me , too, but I'm inclined to side with Taenx on this one, if using the 2024 version.
Yeah, im aware of the argument. I stand with giving it a duration on its own is an exception to the general rule on how temp hit points work. The language here is You gain 5 Temporary Hit Points. If a creature hits you with a melee attack roll before the spell ends, the creature takes 5 Cold damage. The spell ends early if you have no Temporary Hit Points. IMO that is letting you know the spell and all its effect end at a certain point which is one hour in this case. False life says You gain 2d4 + 4 Temporary Hit Points. No mention of the spell ending, hence the temp hit points go away under the general rule of temp hit points.
I can see the argument for why it lasts until long rest, or they are depleted. Given the temp hit points is its own sentence and we have a general rule about how long temp hit points last. I just disagree with it. Either way like many changes in 2024, they could have been clearer. But hey if they want to come out and say keeping the temp hit points is intended, making rest casting even better good for them. The game is off the rails tilted towards players now as is.
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So I was wondering if there was a way to optimize the short rest casting of Warlocks and came up with a 2nd level Warlock build to see what is possible.
2nd level Elf Warlock, take a old/custom background to get Magic Initiate Wizard for Mage Armor.
Invocations take Pact of the Chain, Agonizing blast and Lessons of the Firsts ones for Magic Initiate Druid with Goodberry
Each night you Long Rest for 4 hours (Elven Trance)
Wake up cast Armor of Agathys and Goodberry, Short Rest
Cast Goodberry twice, Short Rest, repeat
Cast Mage Armor on yourself and Familiar, Short Rest.
So 8 hours have Past, you have 50 Goodberries, Mage Armor up for 7 hours on you and your familiar and you have 5 Temp Hp.
At 3rd level you can go Celestial and grab Aid.
Have you confused Pact of the Tome with Druid's wild companion? Pact of the Tome should not need daily re-casts and would be kinda evil if it did since it does not more the 10GP cost, additionally Pact of the Tome doesn't expend a pact slot.
So the build doesn't take Pact of the Tome. So i am not sure what you mean.
They mean Pact of the Chain, I think.
What they're trying to ask is why you feel the need to cast Find Familiar every day, when the familiar from it does not have a set duration. It does if you cast it using the Druid's Wild Companion feature, but not if you cast it via Pact of the Chain. It also doesn't use a spell slot when you cast it that way.
pronouns: he/she/they
Sorry, I meant Pact of the Chain, as well as everything else Wagnarokkr said above.
Oh I see i am casting Mage Armor on me and on the familiar not casting Mage Armor and Find Familiar.
Ah, okay, that makes sense.
pronouns: he/she/they
I mean sure, not sure the mage armor trick is really worth your origin feat. But yeah you can do that. A druid with leftover slots can do the same good berry trick. And yeah sure, 40 hit points of healing between fights is pretty slick. I'd just suggest odds are your DM will tune encounters in a way that you need it so in the end its not that amazing. The armor of agathys is pointless though since its duration is only 1 hour.
The temp hp will remain.
Ah, this makes more sense. Got it.
If you take the mage armor invocation, you can cast it at will.
But I am struggling to see the point. If you have Pact of the chain, you can also cast find familiar every turn. So if it dies, the next turn get a new familiar.
Why have all of these rests to get 50 goodberrries? Don't they disappear in 24 hours?
If you get fiendish vigor invocation you get 8 temp points. and no spell is used.
I understand at 2nd level you have limited invocations, but all those rests do not sound very productive.
You can cast Find Familiar every turn, but it costs 10 gold each time. Not a huge amount of money, but it adds up.
pronouns: he/she/they
That is not my reading of it, but if that is how your table runs it great.
Armor of Shadows only works on yourself, this way you can also put it on your familiar.
Why? At second level EB + Hex +AB does 7.7 DPR with 60% to hit. Imp does 12.4. And you dont even have to be in the room.
Yes Goodberries last 24 hours but you can do this every long rest.
AoA does less THP but it only uses a prep slot and not an invocation.
You only have 3 invocations at level 2, this would need more than 3 invocations to get all the things they are trying to get. But I do agree that Fiendish Vigor is good, Mage Armor falls off a cliff once you get studded leather +1, but still good at level 2 since you won't have that yet.
Unrelated to the build discussion, but that is why I wish they had gone with some template for pact of the chain and had it scale with your warlock levels. A imp can solo some encounters at low levels but becomes worthless in a fight at medium to high levels. Heck maybe it should just be a summon that provided a passive buff with some quirks.
The 2014 version of Armor of Agathys includes the very important phrase "for the duration" on the Temporary HP gain.
The 2024 version of Armor of Agathys does not include those words.
Surprised me , too, but I'm inclined to side with Taenx on this one, if using the 2024 version.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
So apologies to everyone, I am currently using 2024 rules in my game and should have made that clear in the initial post.
Keep in mind the build was designed to see how you could stretch a warlocks resources at level 2. Once you start gaining levels you might want to approach it differently and replace the invocation for another.
For example Undead Patron Warlocks from UA get Fales Life and Death Ward on their lists both of which could work well, Starting each day at 7th level with 27 Thp sounds pretty good for just being an Elf.
Yeah, im aware of the argument. I stand with giving it a duration on its own is an exception to the general rule on how temp hit points work. The language here is You gain 5 Temporary Hit Points. If a creature hits you with a melee attack roll before the spell ends, the creature takes 5 Cold damage. The spell ends early if you have no Temporary Hit Points. IMO that is letting you know the spell and all its effect end at a certain point which is one hour in this case. False life says You gain 2d4 + 4 Temporary Hit Points. No mention of the spell ending, hence the temp hit points go away under the general rule of temp hit points.
I can see the argument for why it lasts until long rest, or they are depleted. Given the temp hit points is its own sentence and we have a general rule about how long temp hit points last. I just disagree with it. Either way like many changes in 2024, they could have been clearer. But hey if they want to come out and say keeping the temp hit points is intended, making rest casting even better good for them. The game is off the rails tilted towards players now as is.