Limited wish lets you have two concentration spells up, because you are the caster of only one of the spells.
I don't know that that's a valid way of looking at the feature....
"You entreat your patron to grant you a small wish. As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie’s Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class’s spell list, and you don’t need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components; the spell simply takes effect as part of this action."
As a DM, I'd rule that you were in control of the spell (and so could end effects early,) and so, if concentration were required, that you'd be concentrating on it. It's a bit cheesy to say otherwise, especially with situations like summoning creatures that become hostile should you lose concentration.
This also makes sense in-game. How many warlocks does your patron have? Even if it's only you, nothing in the rules states the even patrons can concentrate on multiple spells. So it would be pretty strange (even dangerous) for the patron to be concentrating on a single spell for a single warlock somewhere in the mortal realm, leaving himself unable to do so for his own needs, or for any other warlock that needs a limited wish, when he could just make YOU do the concentrating.
Warlock concentrating on the spell does not seem to be RAW. Nowhere does it say that you cast the spell, you just request the effect of the spell and it manifests. Furthermore, there is a precedent of concentration spells without concentration in glyph of warding. However, this would also mean that you do not control the effect and cannot end it prematurely.
However, I agree with your interpretation that it would make more sense in-game for the patron to instead grant the power to cast the spell to the warlock instead of casting it themselves. So, it may well be RAI. It mostly works better for the warlock that way anyway. Imagine wishing for 8 pixies and then not being able to control them.
Normally, any time something lets you cast a concentration spell without having to maintain concentration on it, it will be explicitly mentioned (like when a sentient magic item casts a spell). Since Lesser Wish doesn't mention that, I'd say it's probably not intended to provide that benefit.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm a little disappointed they didn't turn to Magi, an anime/manga series, for inspiration (if they did then I'm not seeing it), the series shows some great examples of what a Genie Warlock could look like. In addition to showing some potential high-level Genie abilities the series also stretches the definition of what qualifies as a genie's vessel, by quite a bit
Say you are an elf genie warlock. As an elf, you can finish the long rest in 4 hours of trance. At level 1 you can reasonably stay in the bottle for 4 hours with your party (or familiar) carrying you around --that's amazing in itself.
But at 10th level, you get Sanctuary Vessel that allows you to "gain the benefits of a short rest in 10 minutes." So would you expect this to scale with an elf so that it speeds up a full rest? If I complete my short rest in 10 minutes, how much longer would you expect to have to stay in the bottle to complete an elven long rest? It seems like even RAW at the very least you could be fully healed in 3 hours and 10 minutes. The relevant text is below.
Sanctuary Vessel - 10th-level Genie feature
When you enter your Genie’s Vessel via the Bottled Respite feature[...] anyone (including you) who remains within the vessel for at least 10 minutes gains the benefit of finishing a short rest, and anyone can add your proficiency bonus to the number of hit points they regain if they spend any Hit Dice as part of a short rest there.
Elves still need ot take a full long rest, they just don't need to be asleep the way a human would. Their transe period is shorter than a human sleep cycle, but they're not getting an earlier start on the day. They just spend part of their long rest while they're awake and can keep watch.
Say you are an elf genie warlock. As an elf, you can finish the long rest in 4 hours of trance. At level 1 you can reasonably stay in the bottle for 4 hours with your party (or familiar) carrying you around --that's amazing in itself.
But at 10th level, you get Sanctuary Vessel that allows you to "gain the benefits of a short rest in 10 minutes." So would you expect this to scale with an elf so that it speeds up a full rest? If I complete my short rest in 10 minutes, how much longer would you expect to have to stay in the bottle to complete an elven long rest? It seems like even RAW at the very least you could be fully healed in 3 hours and 10 minutes. The relevant text is below.
Sanctuary Vessel - 10th-level Genie feature
When you enter your Genie’s Vessel via the Bottled Respite feature[...] anyone (including you) who remains within the vessel for at least 10 minutes gains the benefit of finishing a short rest, and anyone can add your proficiency bonus to the number of hit points they regain if they spend any Hit Dice as part of a short rest there.
For a player that can't make every session, this would be a great pick. He's not here, because he's resting in his lamp and can't come out right now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep.
Here’s what this all means for an elf. An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity. While an elf’s companions are snoozing, the elf can be awake and engaged in a variety of activities, including carving a lovely trinket, composing a sonnet, reading a tome of ancient lore, attempting to remember something experienced centuries before, and keeping an eye out for danger. The Trance trait is, ultimately, meant to highlight the otherworldly character of elves, not to give them an edge in the game.
That all said, if you’re the DM and you decide to let Trance shorten an elf’s long rest, you’re not going to break the game. You are making a world-building choice if you do so. You’re deciding that elves, on a global scale, are ready to reenter a fight before anyone else, that they heal faster than most humanoids, and that they regain their magical energy faster. Such a choice would make sense in a world where elves are the dominant race, where they not only live longer than others, but also recover faster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
How would you balance the Genie sub-class to allow the character to enter the bottle at-will or a lot more frequently than once per long?
I see the problem with being able to leave the battle field whenever you like or hide in there every time somebody comes around that you don't want to be seen by, but at the same time, I REALLY miss the flavor of the oddball genie popping in and out with different clothes on, popping in and grabbing an item and popping back out. Treating it like a bag of holding rather than a timeshare.
I would be ok with banning trips during concentration or even during combat, and saying you can only quick heal once per day. But let me store stuff and flavor-wise pop out to get it.
Well the item is not indestructible and can be easily carried away. Either you help your friends in battle or better hope they win without you. I'd say hiding in your item during battle is potentially the worst idea unless you are heavily wounded.
Agreed. The once a day for healing should apply to battle and you better not be abandoning your party. However, if it was just a bag of holding I could see why I might grab something out of there in battle. I could even go for saying you have to be level X before you can jump in and out at will -- you aren't a genie after all, maybe it takes some time to figure that out. But once per day in your bottle regardless of action/situation seems oddly limited.
How would you balance the Genie sub-class to allow the character to enter the bottle at-will or a lot more frequently than once per long?
Honestly, I really don't think you can.
I'm playing a Genie Warlock now, started at level 1, and while it's a lot of fun, I believe I've gotten a good handle on how his vessel access works in the game.
It's a powerful asset, and I love it. But it's VERY powerful. So much so, that since you get it at level 1, I think letting characters enter more than once per long rest immediately opens it up for abuse. Now, if it were something granted at level 3 like a Pact item, it would be a bit less overpowered. But as currently written, anything more than once is just asking for trouble.
You've got to consider, even as just a place to store things, letting the character take even just a second trip in there daily would pretty much give them a cavern-sized bag of holding, right from the campaign start. That's not just "flavor"--that seriously trivializes a lot of low-level complications, far more so than just immediately giving your players an actual bag of holding.
Then there's the fact you can use the feature for far more than that: to avoid dangerous environments and situations, to enhance movement and travel, and even to hide from enemies (either completely fooling them because you can hide in places otherwise impossible to fit, or surprising them at will.) And of course, the issues compound once you're able to (a) spend a long rest in there, and/or (b) use it for an accelerated short rest--alongside your allies.
As the feature stands now, you can still do your pop-and-reappear. You just can't spam it to hog the limelight, or use it to break every other encounter.
I'm playing a Genie Warlock now, started at level 1, and while it's a lot of fun, I believe I've gotten a good handle on how his vessel access works in the game.
There are a lot of reasons it doesn't need more power. Once per day being able to have a familiar invisibly fly me (and later, my party) wherever we want to go is amazing. Not to mention my ring and I could get tossed through a gate, through a crawl space, through a borehole, through a window, or phased through solid rock aboard an earth genasi or some such.
I'm thinking a lot of vessels will be getting destroyed by lucky arrows....
I’m doing a Fire Genasi Warlock part of the Genie (his father is his pact holder).
discovered that when you cast Mage Hand and go into your magic object you can carry it, effectively flying and bypassing obstacles for around 4 hours once per day.
I’m doing a Fire Genasi Warlock part of the Genie (his father is his pact holder).
discovered that when you cast Mage Hand and go into your magic object you can carry it, effectively flying and bypassing obstacles for around 4 hours once per day.
Warlock concentrating on the spell does not seem to be RAW. Nowhere does it say that you cast the spell, you just request the effect of the spell and it manifests. Furthermore, there is a precedent of concentration spells without concentration in glyph of warding. However, this would also mean that you do not control the effect and cannot end it prematurely.
However, I agree with your interpretation that it would make more sense in-game for the patron to instead grant the power to cast the spell to the warlock instead of casting it themselves. So, it may well be RAI. It mostly works better for the warlock that way anyway. Imagine wishing for 8 pixies and then not being able to control them.
Normally, any time something lets you cast a concentration spell without having to maintain concentration on it, it will be explicitly mentioned (like when a sentient magic item casts a spell). Since Lesser Wish doesn't mention that, I'd say it's probably not intended to provide that benefit.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The casting time limit on limited wish is a bit of a bummer though. Planar allay or conjure elemental would be quite flavorful options.
I agree that being able to cast Planar Ally would be great, but Warlocks can already cast Conjure Elemental via the Minions of Chaos invocation.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm a little disappointed they didn't turn to Magi, an anime/manga series, for inspiration (if they did then I'm not seeing it), the series shows some great examples of what a Genie Warlock could look like. In addition to showing some potential high-level Genie abilities the series also stretches the definition of what qualifies as a genie's vessel, by quite a bit
Say you are an elf genie warlock. As an elf, you can finish the long rest in 4 hours of trance. At level 1 you can reasonably stay in the bottle for 4 hours with your party (or familiar) carrying you around --that's amazing in itself.
But at 10th level, you get Sanctuary Vessel that allows you to "gain the benefits of a short rest in 10 minutes." So would you expect this to scale with an elf so that it speeds up a full rest? If I complete my short rest in 10 minutes, how much longer would you expect to have to stay in the bottle to complete an elven long rest? It seems like even RAW at the very least you could be fully healed in 3 hours and 10 minutes. The relevant text is below.
When you enter your Genie’s Vessel via the Bottled Respite feature[...] anyone (including you) who remains within the vessel for at least 10 minutes gains the benefit of finishing a short rest, and anyone can add your proficiency bonus to the number of hit points they regain if they spend any Hit Dice as part of a short rest there.
Elves still need ot take a full long rest, they just don't need to be asleep the way a human would. Their transe period is shorter than a human sleep cycle, but they're not getting an earlier start on the day. They just spend part of their long rest while they're awake and can keep watch.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thanks! I haven’t played an elf, but I didn’t realize they were in low power mode for the full 8 hours.
For a player that can't make every session, this would be a great pick. He's not here, because he's resting in his lamp and can't come out right now.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-september-2015
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep.
Here’s what this all means for an elf. An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity. While an elf’s companions are snoozing, the elf can be awake and engaged in a variety of activities, including carving a lovely trinket, composing a sonnet, reading a tome of ancient lore, attempting to remember something experienced centuries before, and keeping an eye out for danger. The Trance trait is, ultimately, meant to highlight the otherworldly character of elves, not to give them an edge in the game.
That all said, if you’re the DM and you decide to let Trance shorten an elf’s long rest, you’re not going to break the game. You are making a world-building choice if you do so. You’re deciding that elves, on a global scale, are ready to reenter a fight before anyone else, that they heal faster than most humanoids, and that they regain their magical energy faster. Such a choice would make sense in a world where elves are the dominant race, where they not only live longer than others, but also recover faster.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
How would you balance the Genie sub-class to allow the character to enter the bottle at-will or a lot more frequently than once per long?
I see the problem with being able to leave the battle field whenever you like or hide in there every time somebody comes around that you don't want to be seen by, but at the same time, I REALLY miss the flavor of the oddball genie popping in and out with different clothes on, popping in and grabbing an item and popping back out. Treating it like a bag of holding rather than a timeshare.
I would be ok with banning trips during concentration or even during combat, and saying you can only quick heal once per day. But let me store stuff and flavor-wise pop out to get it.
Making a habit of doing so is definitely not a think you should do unless you'd like your party members to chuck your bottle into the river.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agreed. The once a day for healing should apply to battle and you better not be abandoning your party. However, if it was just a bag of holding I could see why I might grab something out of there in battle. I could even go for saying you have to be level X before you can jump in and out at will -- you aren't a genie after all, maybe it takes some time to figure that out. But once per day in your bottle regardless of action/situation seems oddly limited.
Honestly, I really don't think you can.
I'm playing a Genie Warlock now, started at level 1, and while it's a lot of fun, I believe I've gotten a good handle on how his vessel access works in the game.
It's a powerful asset, and I love it. But it's VERY powerful. So much so, that since you get it at level 1, I think letting characters enter more than once per long rest immediately opens it up for abuse. Now, if it were something granted at level 3 like a Pact item, it would be a bit less overpowered. But as currently written, anything more than once is just asking for trouble.
You've got to consider, even as just a place to store things, letting the character take even just a second trip in there daily would pretty much give them a cavern-sized bag of holding, right from the campaign start. That's not just "flavor"--that seriously trivializes a lot of low-level complications, far more so than just immediately giving your players an actual bag of holding.
Then there's the fact you can use the feature for far more than that: to avoid dangerous environments and situations, to enhance movement and travel, and even to hide from enemies (either completely fooling them because you can hide in places otherwise impossible to fit, or surprising them at will.) And of course, the issues compound once you're able to (a) spend a long rest in there, and/or (b) use it for an accelerated short rest--alongside your allies.
As the feature stands now, you can still do your pop-and-reappear. You just can't spam it to hog the limelight, or use it to break every other encounter.
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
There are a lot of reasons it doesn't need more power. Once per day being able to have a familiar invisibly fly me (and later, my party) wherever we want to go is amazing. Not to mention my ring and I could get tossed through a gate, through a crawl space, through a borehole, through a window, or phased through solid rock aboard an earth genasi or some such.
I'm thinking a lot of vessels will be getting destroyed by lucky arrows....
I’m doing a Fire Genasi Warlock part of the Genie (his father is his pact holder).
discovered that when you cast Mage Hand and go into your magic object you can carry it, effectively flying and bypassing obstacles for around 4 hours once per day.
Well that's a nifty trick!
Sterling - V. Human Bard 3 (College of Art) - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist (w/ Mansion) - Jasper's [Pic] - Sterling's [Sigil]
Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
I've got to say I don't like genie's wrath being tied to prof bonus. It should be tied to something which remains within the class.
Otherwise you can just 1 level dip genielock and get a free ever scaling damage boost without touching warlock again.
It's a cool ability though, and helps bladelocks keep up in combat.