Even for a bladelock its value is minimal, just a little bit better. You likely still have eldritch blast, so if your move ends a bit short you still have a good alternative. Unless your GM makes sure every encounter starts exactly enough distance away that your normal move is not enough to get there after round 2(round 1 applying the hex) or every enemy is spread out 40 feet apart or something. It is just rarely going to come up as an action you need yo use. Look impressive, sure. But need or be useful often enough to be anything other than a bad mechanical choice, doubtful.
All the more reason why the distance for the teleport should have been extended a little. Invocations are too precious for something you only use once or twice per campaign.
Even for a bladelock its value is minimal, just a little bit better. You likely still have eldritch blast, so if your move ends a bit short you still have a good alternative. Unless your GM makes sure every encounter starts exactly enough distance away that your normal move is not enough to get there after round 2(round 1 applying the hex) or every enemy is spread out 40 feet apart or something. It is just rarely going to come up as an action you need yo use. Look impressive, sure. But need or be useful often enough to be anything other than a bad mechanical choice, doubtful.
All the more reason why the distance for the teleport should have been extended a little. Invocations are too precious for something you only use once or twice per campaign.
One person's once or twice a campaign is another persons regular combat experience. You may not have enemies run from melee fighters often but in other games it can be a regular occurance. And that BladeLock is always going to be more effective in melee than with Eldritch Blast unless you put a lot into Eldritch blast and then you end up in the position of why did you bother playing a BladeLock to begin with? Of course if you do just Eldritch Blast that Enemy the turn it runs away from you and it isn't what you invested a lot in. Your actually creating a reason to use the power on your next turn. Even if you didn't mean to.
Even for a bladelock its value is minimal, just a little bit better. You likely still have eldritch blast, so if your move ends a bit short you still have a good alternative. Unless your GM makes sure every encounter starts exactly enough distance away that your normal move is not enough to get there after round 2(round 1 applying the hex) or every enemy is spread out 40 feet apart or something. It is just rarely going to come up as an action you need yo use. Look impressive, sure. But need or be useful often enough to be anything other than a bad mechanical choice, doubtful.
All the more reason why the distance for the teleport should have been extended a little. Invocations are too precious for something you only use once or twice per campaign.
One person's once or twice a campaign is another persons regular combat experience. You may not have enemies run from melee fighters often but in other games it can be a regular occurance. And that BladeLock is always going to be more effective in melee than with Eldritch Blast unless you put a lot into Eldritch blast and then you end up in the position of why did you bother playing a BladeLock to begin with? Of course if you do just Eldritch Blast that Enemy the turn it runs away from you and it isn't what you invested a lot in. Your actually creating a reason to use the power on your next turn. Even if you didn't mean to.
You generally can just keep up with runners with your normal movement. They withdraw and move, you move up and beat them down, they just run and run you get an AoO, and move and move and get another AoO if they try to run again, sure its a bit less damage but again its just not going to happen enough to matter. Even if your DM has them run often, they probably aren't running at 90% health or something so 2 AoO was probably enough. At most it saves you a couple rounds of following a foe that isn't fighting, woo. This thing is just bad.
Even for a bladelock its value is minimal, just a little bit better. You likely still have eldritch blast, so if your move ends a bit short you still have a good alternative. Unless your GM makes sure every encounter starts exactly enough distance away that your normal move is not enough to get there after round 2(round 1 applying the hex) or every enemy is spread out 40 feet apart or something. It is just rarely going to come up as an action you need yo use. Look impressive, sure. But need or be useful often enough to be anything other than a bad mechanical choice, doubtful.
All the more reason why the distance for the teleport should have been extended a little. Invocations are too precious for something you only use once or twice per campaign.
One person's once or twice a campaign is another persons regular combat experience. You may not have enemies run from melee fighters often but in other games it can be a regular occurance. And that BladeLock is always going to be more effective in melee than with Eldritch Blast unless you put a lot into Eldritch blast and then you end up in the position of why did you bother playing a BladeLock to begin with? Of course if you do just Eldritch Blast that Enemy the turn it runs away from you and it isn't what you invested a lot in. Your actually creating a reason to use the power on your next turn. Even if you didn't mean to.
You generally can just keep up with runners with your normal movement. They withdraw and move, you move up and beat them down, they just run and run you get an AoO, and move and move and get another AoO if they try to run again, sure its a bit less damage but again its just not going to happen enough to matter. Even if your DM has them run often, they probably aren't running at 90% health or something so 2 AoO was probably enough. At most it saves you a couple rounds of following a foe that isn't fighting, woo. This thing is just bad.
this is not necessarily true. I've had plenty of things run after I've used up my Reaction on something. I've had some run from me knowing I'd make a REaction attack and just hope I didn't hit them. I've had some use other means such as misty step to escape and then move after it. There are all kinds of ways to break the dichotomy of disengage-move followed by move-attack. If that's all your opponents do it might be fine for you but that's not representative of many campaigns where many enemies might be smarter and/or more skilled.
It's mechanically not good. It is very rare that it's only good if something it running away from you in combat, and has limited use outside of combat because of the way hex, and hexblades curse work you would pretty much have to waste them to use them outside of combat.
-It's good to get you into melee range with something you have Hexed. -Both Hex and relentless take a BA so you cant do them both on the same turn -You are already going to be in melee range or moving into melee range to what ever you hexed in round 1. -This means with a dash you can already have moved up to 90ft by the time you would be able to use it.
Basically the chances that you would need to teleport to something after having 2 rounds of movement toward it is extremely rare. Especially since you are going to want to hex something you can hit round 1.
As a melee, you'd probably be better off using cloak of flies or maddening hex, or both.
And even for running away it only helps against the very narrow field of enemies that have things like misty step or some other free/bonus action disengage move. This is a few times a campaign useful. It should have been bonus action or as part of applying or moving a hex. And honestly could still use a couple perks, like not needing to see the target and maybe it allowed you to know the location of anyone hexed out to a mile or something.
It should have been bonus action or as part of applying or moving a hex.
This. If a player thinks it'd be a cool ability then a DM should definitely houserule that it works as part of applying or transferring the hex as well, as having to wait for a following turn seriously limits the appeal of it.
With that simple change, Relentless Hex becomes good at what it's good for, which is closing quickly with an enemy in a similar way to a Rogue's Cunning Action or a Monk's Step of the Wind (when used to Bonus Action Dash). While it's more limited than a full Misty Step, it gives you some of that without costing you any additional resources (which are limited on a Warlock) so is actually not a bad choice for an aggressive melee Warlock. It lets a Hexblade get to a key target in the opening round of a fight, or quickly relocate to another after you've dispatched your last target, ideal for a Hexblade who wants to focus on assassinating squishier key targets like enemy mages before jumping back into the main fray to help the rest of the party.
But yeah, as it is in RAW it's a pretty tough sell; you can only use it in following rounds, which makes it much more situational than it already is; I mean even with the change it's a bit situational depending on how good your DM is at providing you with varied combat arenas (i.e- ranged enemies far enough away that speed is an advantage for taking them out first).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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You don’t have to target an enemy. Rat in a bag, familiar, or even a party member has worked for me in the past. Did I swap it out, yep, did I have fun with it for a couple of levels… certainly
What about this... your party encounters a group of enemies.
As a Warlock, you get within 30 ft of one, cast Hex and summon your pact weapon. Next round, you use Hexblade's Curse on another after moving in range, then do whatever as an action.
Next round you run up and attack one of them, then - if the 2 targets are within 30ft of one another, you bonus action Relentless Hex to the other target.
Next round... you attack THAT target, then Relentless Hex to the other one. Back and forth.
Theoretically, that would cause a lot of confusion on the battle field...
But does that sound workable..?
Alternatively, hex a companion - PC, Familiar, or maybe an Accursed Specter(?) - then Hexblade's Curse enemy... run in, attack enemy... teleport to companion. Then teleport behind enemy, unsuspecting to attack again.
I just like the idea of going all Nightcrawler in battle...
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All the more reason why the distance for the teleport should have been extended a little. Invocations are too precious for something you only use once or twice per campaign.
One person's once or twice a campaign is another persons regular combat experience. You may not have enemies run from melee fighters often but in other games it can be a regular occurance. And that BladeLock is always going to be more effective in melee than with Eldritch Blast unless you put a lot into Eldritch blast and then you end up in the position of why did you bother playing a BladeLock to begin with? Of course if you do just Eldritch Blast that Enemy the turn it runs away from you and it isn't what you invested a lot in. Your actually creating a reason to use the power on your next turn. Even if you didn't mean to.
You generally can just keep up with runners with your normal movement. They withdraw and move, you move up and beat them down, they just run and run you get an AoO, and move and move and get another AoO if they try to run again, sure its a bit less damage but again its just not going to happen enough to matter. Even if your DM has them run often, they probably aren't running at 90% health or something so 2 AoO was probably enough. At most it saves you a couple rounds of following a foe that isn't fighting, woo. This thing is just bad.
this is not necessarily true. I've had plenty of things run after I've used up my Reaction on something. I've had some run from me knowing I'd make a REaction attack and just hope I didn't hit them. I've had some use other means such as misty step to escape and then move after it. There are all kinds of ways to break the dichotomy of disengage-move followed by move-attack. If that's all your opponents do it might be fine for you but that's not representative of many campaigns where many enemies might be smarter and/or more skilled.
genius
you have the squishy wizard and protect him, the fast monk so you can teleport there
It's mechanically not good.
It is very rare that it's only good if something it running away from you in combat, and has limited use outside of combat because of the way hex, and hexblades curse work you would pretty much have to waste them to use them outside of combat.
-It's good to get you into melee range with something you have Hexed.
-Both Hex and relentless take a BA so you cant do them both on the same turn
-You are already going to be in melee range or moving into melee range to what ever you hexed in round 1.
-This means with a dash you can already have moved up to 90ft by the time you would be able to use it.
Basically the chances that you would need to teleport to something after having 2 rounds of movement toward it is extremely rare. Especially since you are going to want to hex something you can hit round 1.
As a melee, you'd probably be better off using cloak of flies or maddening hex, or both.
And even for running away it only helps against the very narrow field of enemies that have things like misty step or some other free/bonus action disengage move. This is a few times a campaign useful. It should have been bonus action or as part of applying or moving a hex. And honestly could still use a couple perks, like not needing to see the target and maybe it allowed you to know the location of anyone hexed out to a mile or something.
This. If a player thinks it'd be a cool ability then a DM should definitely houserule that it works as part of applying or transferring the hex as well, as having to wait for a following turn seriously limits the appeal of it.
With that simple change, Relentless Hex becomes good at what it's good for, which is closing quickly with an enemy in a similar way to a Rogue's Cunning Action or a Monk's Step of the Wind (when used to Bonus Action Dash). While it's more limited than a full Misty Step, it gives you some of that without costing you any additional resources (which are limited on a Warlock) so is actually not a bad choice for an aggressive melee Warlock. It lets a Hexblade get to a key target in the opening round of a fight, or quickly relocate to another after you've dispatched your last target, ideal for a Hexblade who wants to focus on assassinating squishier key targets like enemy mages before jumping back into the main fray to help the rest of the party.
But yeah, as it is in RAW it's a pretty tough sell; you can only use it in following rounds, which makes it much more situational than it already is; I mean even with the change it's a bit situational depending on how good your DM is at providing you with varied combat arenas (i.e- ranged enemies far enough away that speed is an advantage for taking them out first).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
You don’t have to target an enemy. Rat in a bag, familiar, or even a party member has worked for me in the past. Did I swap it out, yep, did I have fun with it for a couple of levels… certainly
What about this... your party encounters a group of enemies.
As a Warlock, you get within 30 ft of one, cast Hex and summon your pact weapon. Next round, you use Hexblade's Curse on another after moving in range, then do whatever as an action.
Next round you run up and attack one of them, then - if the 2 targets are within 30ft of one another, you bonus action Relentless Hex to the other target.
Next round... you attack THAT target, then Relentless Hex to the other one. Back and forth.
Theoretically, that would cause a lot of confusion on the battle field...
But does that sound workable..?
Alternatively, hex a companion - PC, Familiar, or maybe an Accursed Specter(?) - then Hexblade's Curse enemy... run in, attack enemy... teleport to companion. Then teleport behind enemy, unsuspecting to attack again.
I just like the idea of going all Nightcrawler in battle...