Its a nice perk for when you are casting a divination spell already but its not amazing. Still at level 7+ Id cast arcane eye pretty dang often if I were a diviner. Its a great scouting spell and its in theme for the subclass, so if im casting it anyways getting a hypnotic pattern back is pretty snazzy.
Yes, outside of combat, if you're in a dungeon, arcane eye is a must. With Expert Divination you also regain a space of level 3 or less. Nice. As a level 6 spell you have True Sight which is also good to always have on hand, and you get back a level 5 slot or less. Nice too. The rest of the list has here and there divination spells with situational utility that are also interesting. Apart from the rituals, which are fantastic. But those don't work for Expert Divination (unless you have them prepared). The problem is combat. Basically the only offensive divination spell is pretty bad. Still, it has helped me many times to "recycle" spell slots that I needed. I almost used it as if it were a cantrip (with a level 5 slot, for example, then you can throw it "for free" with level 4, 3 and 2). That will not work against a boss, of course, but against minions at a very low cost. And of course, obviously it also depends on how the DM is. If he stretches the gap between rests a lot, and puts up a lot of fights for you to spend your resources, Expert Divnation can be the difference. If you can rest whenever you want, and you are almost always full of resources, then it is not so good. But in any case it is always useful.
Abjurers and Bladesingers are about as defensive as a Barbarian. They can wade right into melee. I believe that they are the only subclasses that can _regularly_ do that.
Less defensive, but still quite defensive are Illusionists, Diviners, and Enchanters. They all have strong defenses that aren't always available.
It is my understanding that the other subclasses are better left in the rear ranks.
Evocation, being a damage-based support subclass, would probably want a level or two in Artificer, if you want some defensive features…the armor proficiencies & Constitution Saving throw proficiency (if you start Artificer) can help balance your want for offense & defense.
Hexblade! Most wizards can benefit from starting artificer, but for evokers the "hexvoker" big missile build is a big winner! Stack your proficiency bonus AND int modifier onto the magic missile roll! :D
If you are going pure wizard, bladesinger would give you a good melee range defensive capability; however, since you mentioned exceptional magic capabilities, i assume you wouldn't want to supplement the build with melee targeted spells. In that instance, i would think maybe war wizard for the arcane deflection, tactical wit, and durable magic features. Being able to increase your initiative roll is great. Going first is one of the best defenses for a wizard.
Evocation, being a damage-based support subclass, would probably want a level or two in Artificer, if you want some defensive features…the armor proficiencies & Constitution Saving throw proficiency (if you start Artificer) can help balance your want for offense & defense.
Hexblade! Most wizards can benefit from starting artificer, but for evokers the "hexvoker" big missile build is a big winner! Stack your proficiency bonus AND int modifier onto the magic missile roll! :D
……!!!!
Well, how about that!
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
Evocation, being a damage-based support subclass, would probably want a level or two in Artificer, if you want some defensive features…the armor proficiencies & Constitution Saving throw proficiency (if you start Artificer) can help balance your want for offense & defense.
Hexblade! Most wizards can benefit from starting artificer, but for evokers the "hexvoker" big missile build is a big winner! Stack your proficiency bonus AND int modifier onto the magic missile roll! :D
……!!!!
Well, how about that!
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
Why do people call these things "character concepts"? I'm trying to politely ask a question knowing that tone travels poorly over the Internet and I'm likely to piss off somebody. Isn't "character' a matter of personality, wants, needs, wounds, goals, desires, secret desires, etc.?
Its a nice perk for when you are casting a divination spell already but its not amazing. Still at level 7+ Id cast arcane eye pretty dang often if I were a diviner. Its a great scouting spell and its in theme for the subclass, so if im casting it anyways getting a hypnotic pattern back is pretty snazzy.
Yes, outside of combat, if you're in a dungeon, arcane eye is a must. With Expert Divination you also regain a space of level 3 or less. Nice. As a level 6 spell you have True Sight which is also good to always have on hand, and you get back a level 5 slot or less. Nice too. The rest of the list has here and there divination spells with situational utility that are also interesting. Apart from the rituals, which are fantastic. But those don't work for Expert Divination (unless you have them prepared). The problem is combat. Basically the only offensive divination spell is pretty bad. Still, it has helped me many times to "recycle" spell slots that I needed. I almost used it as if it were a cantrip (with a level 5 slot, for example, then you can throw it "for free" with level 4, 3 and 2). That will not work against a boss, of course, but against minions at a very low cost. And of course, obviously it also depends on how the DM is. If he stretches the gap between rests a lot, and puts up a lot of fights for you to spend your resources, Expert Divnation can be the difference. If you can rest whenever you want, and you are almost always full of resources, then it is not so good. But in any case it is always useful.
Whew...I understand that that True Seeing nets you a 6th level slot back, but from level 11-18 you only get *one* 6th level slot
I just can't justify casting True Seeing unless I specifically need to see into the Ethereal Plane or find a magic door
Evocation, being a damage-based support subclass, would probably want a level or two in Artificer, if you want some defensive features…the armor proficiencies & Constitution Saving throw proficiency (if you start Artificer) can help balance your want for offense & defense.
Hexblade! Most wizards can benefit from starting artificer, but for evokers the "hexvoker" big missile build is a big winner! Stack your proficiency bonus AND int modifier onto the magic missile roll! :D
……!!!!
Well, how about that!
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
Why do people call these things "character concepts"? I'm trying to politely ask a question knowing that tone travels poorly over the Internet and I'm likely to piss off somebody. Isn't "character' a matter of personality, wants, needs, wounds, goals, desires, secret desires, etc.?
Here's the thing: if you're going to broadcast your exasperation & this idea that you're going to "piss someone off"...you're putting that message out there already. There is nothing "polite" about that. So that's why the tone is translating poorly.
You want to ask a question?
Then just ask the question. Nicely.
Now, if you want me to justify why I use the phrase "character concept" in application to a specific mechanic, rather than "personality, wants, needs, wounds, goals, desires, secret desires, etc."...
...it's because those things are already with the character in my head; this is just something that they would DO.
I'm aware that isn't terribly accurate...but truthfully?
I'm not writing a news article.
I'm not obligated to be 100% accurate with my thoughts in casual conversation on my coffee break.
It's a game! Have FUN.
Don't go mucking your thoughts up with the tiny details...especially other people's tiny details.
Its a nice perk for when you are casting a divination spell already but its not amazing. Still at level 7+ Id cast arcane eye pretty dang often if I were a diviner. Its a great scouting spell and its in theme for the subclass, so if im casting it anyways getting a hypnotic pattern back is pretty snazzy.
Yes, outside of combat, if you're in a dungeon, arcane eye is a must. With Expert Divination you also regain a space of level 3 or less. Nice. As a level 6 spell you have True Sight which is also good to always have on hand, and you get back a level 5 slot or less. Nice too. The rest of the list has here and there divination spells with situational utility that are also interesting. Apart from the rituals, which are fantastic. But those don't work for Expert Divination (unless you have them prepared). The problem is combat. Basically the only offensive divination spell is pretty bad. Still, it has helped me many times to "recycle" spell slots that I needed. I almost used it as if it were a cantrip (with a level 5 slot, for example, then you can throw it "for free" with level 4, 3 and 2). That will not work against a boss, of course, but against minions at a very low cost. And of course, obviously it also depends on how the DM is. If he stretches the gap between rests a lot, and puts up a lot of fights for you to spend your resources, Expert Divnation can be the difference. If you can rest whenever you want, and you are almost always full of resources, then it is not so good. But in any case it is always useful.
Whew...I understand that that True Seeing nets you a 6th level slot back, but from level 11-18 you only get *one* 6th level slot
I just can't justify casting True Seeing unless I specifically need to see into the Ethereal Plane or find a magic door
True Seeing gives you many things. The main thing is truesight, which basically allows you to see in any kind of dark, ignore any kind of visual illusions, magical disguises, shapeshifting, etc... Plus you see anything invisible like traps, creatures, etc... The added bonus is detecting magically hidden doors which is very good in many dungeons. Of course, you have to have good sense to use it. In any case, you always have to have good judgment to get the most out of a wizard, nothing new here.
It's a great spell. It's obviously a lvl 6 spell slot, because what it gives you can literally change a game.
Obviously, if there are no invisible things in your game, no visual illusions, no shape changes, etc... It is a spell that is of practically no use to you. But those things are very common in D&D, so it's strange that it doesn't work for you.
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
I'm about to start playing a mid-level character who is an artificer/bladesinger. While I agree it's hard to justify getting anything other than just more Wizard levels, in planning him out, I think that two levels of Artificer isn't that detrimental. I talked about it in another thread, but here are some highlights:
Start as an Artificer which give light armor proficiency right away instead of hiding for a level. You also get shield proficiency. But Bladesinger's can't use shields, I hear you scream. They only can't use shields while bladesinging. So you can walk around with a shield for mundane battles and drop it when you need to start the feature. Since early levels mean fewer opportunities to use the feature per long rest, it can come in handy.
You also start with Constitution proficiency which means you don't have to think about using a feat to get Resilient (Con) later. You'll also gain two cantrips and 3-4 spells, many of which are shared with Wizard so that when you start your Wizard class, you can use that initial 6 free spells for more diversity rather that wasting it on typical starting spells (i.e. sleep, mage armor, etc). Speaking of spells, since the number of spells an Artificer can prepare is also based on Int, when you raise your Int via ASI, you end up getting two spell; one any level Wizard and one 1st-level Artificer spell. Finally, you can use your Magical Tinkering for a ton of effects.
At second level, continue with Artificer and gain four infusions: Enhanced Arcane Focus which will work for both Wizard and Artificer casting, Homunculus Servant as a flying metal gundam for your familiar, Enhanced Weapon which can be used on your bladesinging weapon, and Enhanced Defense to soup up your armor.
From level 3 and beyond it's all Wizard. Yes, you are two levels behind straight Wizard, but you gain a number of bonuses to compensate.
Its a nice perk for when you are casting a divination spell already but its not amazing. Still at level 7+ Id cast arcane eye pretty dang often if I were a diviner. Its a great scouting spell and its in theme for the subclass, so if im casting it anyways getting a hypnotic pattern back is pretty snazzy.
Yes, outside of combat, if you're in a dungeon, arcane eye is a must. With Expert Divination you also regain a space of level 3 or less. Nice. As a level 6 spell you have True Sight which is also good to always have on hand, and you get back a level 5 slot or less. Nice too. The rest of the list has here and there divination spells with situational utility that are also interesting. Apart from the rituals, which are fantastic. But those don't work for Expert Divination (unless you have them prepared). The problem is combat. Basically the only offensive divination spell is pretty bad. Still, it has helped me many times to "recycle" spell slots that I needed. I almost used it as if it were a cantrip (with a level 5 slot, for example, then you can throw it "for free" with level 4, 3 and 2). That will not work against a boss, of course, but against minions at a very low cost. And of course, obviously it also depends on how the DM is. If he stretches the gap between rests a lot, and puts up a lot of fights for you to spend your resources, Expert Divnation can be the difference. If you can rest whenever you want, and you are almost always full of resources, then it is not so good. But in any case it is always useful.
Personally, I think the Diviner’s combat spells are their divinations.
For example, Use Arcane Eye to find the best place to Teleport (or Dimension Door or whatever) into and come in quickly, attack from surprise, and take cover.
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
I'm about to start playing a mid-level character who is an artificer/bladesinger. While I agree it's hard to justify getting anything other than just more Wizard levels, in planning him out, I think that two levels of Artificer isn't that detrimental. I talked about it in another thread, but here are some highlights:
Start as an Artificer which give light armor proficiency right away instead of hiding for a level. You also get shield proficiency. But Bladesinger's can't use shields, I hear you scream. They only can't use shields while bladesinging. So you can walk around with a shield for mundane battles and drop it when you need to start the feature. Since early levels mean fewer opportunities to use the feature per long rest, it can come in handy.
You also start with Constitution proficiency which means you don't have to think about using a feat to get Resilient (Con) later. You'll also gain two cantrips and 3-4 spells, many of which are shared with Wizard so that when you start your Wizard class, you can use that initial 6 free spells for more diversity rather that wasting it on typical starting spells (i.e. sleep, mage armor, etc). Speaking of spells, since the number of spells an Artificer can prepare is also based on Int, when you raise your Int via ASI, you end up getting two spell; one any level Wizard and one 1st-level Artificer spell. Finally, you can use your Magical Tinkering for a ton of effects.
At second level, continue with Artificer and gain four infusions: Enhanced Arcane Focus which will work for both Wizard and Artificer casting, Homunculus Servant as a flying metal gundam for your familiar, Enhanced Weapon which can be used on your bladesinging weapon, and Enhanced Defense to soup up your armor.
From level 3 and beyond it's all Wizard. Yes, you are two levels behind straight Wizard, but you gain a number of bonuses to compensate.
Each to his own. RAW it is difficult to use a shield as a bladesinger. Aside from the bladesong restriction it takes an action to stow and both shield and absorb elements require somatic components, which make it difficult without giving up and ASI for warcaster.
I would also start as a wizard for Wisdom saves and I would advise not getting resilient con. You really need to push both dex and intelligence if you want to tank as a bladesinger. Concentration saves are not a problem on a bladesinger because you add your intelligence bonus in bladesong AND you very rarely get hit. You will drop concentration occasionally from a breath weapon or lucky hit, but on a bladesinge,r wisdom saves are more critical as they will put you out of the fight for a turn or more which can be deadly when you are in melee range.
If youn are not planning to tank that is all less critical.
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
I'm about to start playing a mid-level character who is an artificer/bladesinger. While I agree it's hard to justify getting anything other than just more Wizard levels, in planning him out, I think that two levels of Artificer isn't that detrimental. I talked about it in another thread, but here are some highlights:
Start as an Artificer which give light armor proficiency right away instead of hiding for a level. You also get shield proficiency. But Bladesinger's can't use shields, I hear you scream. They only can't use shields while bladesinging. So you can walk around with a shield for mundane battles and drop it when you need to start the feature. Since early levels mean fewer opportunities to use the feature per long rest, it can come in handy.
You also start with Constitution proficiency which means you don't have to think about using a feat to get Resilient (Con) later. You'll also gain two cantrips and 3-4 spells, many of which are shared with Wizard so that when you start your Wizard class, you can use that initial 6 free spells for more diversity rather that wasting it on typical starting spells (i.e. sleep, mage armor, etc). Speaking of spells, since the number of spells an Artificer can prepare is also based on Int, when you raise your Int via ASI, you end up getting two spell; one any level Wizard and one 1st-level Artificer spell. Finally, you can use your Magical Tinkering for a ton of effects.
At second level, continue with Artificer and gain four infusions: Enhanced Arcane Focus which will work for both Wizard and Artificer casting, Homunculus Servant as a flying metal gundam for your familiar, Enhanced Weapon which can be used on your bladesinging weapon, and Enhanced Defense to soup up your armor.
From level 3 and beyond it's all Wizard. Yes, you are two levels behind straight Wizard, but you gain a number of bonuses to compensate.
Each to his own. RAW it is difficult to use a shield as a bladesinger. Aside from the bladesong restriction it takes an action to stow and both shield and absorb elements require somatic components, which make it difficult without giving up and ASI for warcaster.
I would also start as a wizard for Wisdom saves and I would advise not getting resilient con. You really need to push both dex and intelligence if you want to tank as a bladesinger. Concentration saves are not a problem on a bladesinger because you add your intelligence bonus in bladesong AND you very rarely get hit. You will drop concentration occasionally from a breath weapon or lucky hit, but on a bladesinge,r wisdom saves are more critical as they will put you out of the fight for a turn or more which can be deadly when you are in melee range.
If youn are not planning to tank that is all less critical.
There are good tank builds for Armorer/Bladesingers. Battlesmith/Bladesingers lack a the Armorer's taunt and second weapon attack, but they still have an incredibly high AC. Personally I would never even consider playing a singleclass bladesinger, the Artificer's intelligence based attacks is what makes the subclass worth playing in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
I'm about to start playing a mid-level character who is an artificer/bladesinger. While I agree it's hard to justify getting anything other than just more Wizard levels, in planning him out, I think that two levels of Artificer isn't that detrimental. I talked about it in another thread, but here are some highlights:
Start as an Artificer which give light armor proficiency right away instead of hiding for a level. You also get shield proficiency. But Bladesinger's can't use shields, I hear you scream. They only can't use shields while bladesinging. So you can walk around with a shield for mundane battles and drop it when you need to start the feature. Since early levels mean fewer opportunities to use the feature per long rest, it can come in handy.
You also start with Constitution proficiency which means you don't have to think about using a feat to get Resilient (Con) later. You'll also gain two cantrips and 3-4 spells, many of which are shared with Wizard so that when you start your Wizard class, you can use that initial 6 free spells for more diversity rather that wasting it on typical starting spells (i.e. sleep, mage armor, etc). Speaking of spells, since the number of spells an Artificer can prepare is also based on Int, when you raise your Int via ASI, you end up getting two spell; one any level Wizard and one 1st-level Artificer spell. Finally, you can use your Magical Tinkering for a ton of effects.
At second level, continue with Artificer and gain four infusions: Enhanced Arcane Focus which will work for both Wizard and Artificer casting, Homunculus Servant as a flying metal gundam for your familiar, Enhanced Weapon which can be used on your bladesinging weapon, and Enhanced Defense to soup up your armor.
From level 3 and beyond it's all Wizard. Yes, you are two levels behind straight Wizard, but you gain a number of bonuses to compensate.
Each to his own. RAW it is difficult to use a shield as a bladesinger. Aside from the bladesong restriction it takes an action to stow and both shield and absorb elements require somatic components, which make it difficult without giving up and ASI for warcaster.
I would also start as a wizard for Wisdom saves and I would advise not getting resilient con. You really need to push both dex and intelligence if you want to tank as a bladesinger. Concentration saves are not a problem on a bladesinger because you add your intelligence bonus in bladesong AND you very rarely get hit. You will drop concentration occasionally from a breath weapon or lucky hit, but on a bladesinge,r wisdom saves are more critical as they will put you out of the fight for a turn or more which can be deadly when you are in melee range.
If youn are not planning to tank that is all less critical.
There are good tank builds for Armorer/Bladesingers. Battlesmith/Bladesingers lack a the Armorer's taunt and second weapon attack, but they still have an incredibly high AC. Personally I would never even consider playing a singleclass bladesinger, the Artificer's intelligence based attacks is what makes the subclass worth playing in the first place.
A Bladesinger can add both intelligence and dexterity to attacks at level 14. With a 3-level dip, a battlesmith will be behind a single class bladesinger in melee damage for most levels. He will be slightly ahead in level 3-5 due to using a higher damage weapon and again at levels 9-13, but at every other level, the battlesmith/bladesinger multiclass is behind a single-class bladesinger. At 6-8 he is behind because he does not have extra attack yet and he is behind again at 14+ when the bladesinger gets Song of Victory.
The real reason I don't like multiclassing on a bladesinger tank build though is you get milestones a lot later and this seriously reduces your defenses just about every level compared to a single class. With a 3-level dip you wait 3 more levels to get Protection from Good and Evil (4), bladesong (5), blur (6), Misty Step (6), extra attack (9), song of defense (13) and contingency (14). These spells and abilities are largely what makes a bladesinger outshine just about every other subclass in terms of surviving in melee.
The only dip that I don't think hurts is a 1-level warlock dip (Undead, Hexblade or Genie) taken at level 7. Compared to a normal bladesinger, that only puts them a level behind for the higher level abilities and spells and if you take it at level 7 it does not delay extra attack or blur. Warlock gives you Armor of Agathys which is better than False Life for your high levels and it gives you a 1st level slot for shield that recharges on a short rest. These subclasses all give sold abilities too with a 1-level dip that work well in melee - Form of dread, even with a poor save, pairs really well with a bladesinger using extra attack, although it takes 2 rounds to get online with Bladesong. Hexblade gives you weapons if you do not have weapon proficencies through your race and the curse, Genie boosts damage. I would not go more than 1 level though and would not take the dip before 7th level.
Yes, outside of combat, if you're in a dungeon, arcane eye is a must. With Expert Divination you also regain a space of level 3 or less. Nice.
As a level 6 spell you have True Sight which is also good to always have on hand, and you get back a level 5 slot or less. Nice too.
The rest of the list has here and there divination spells with situational utility that are also interesting. Apart from the rituals, which are fantastic. But those don't work for Expert Divination (unless you have them prepared).
The problem is combat. Basically the only offensive divination spell is pretty bad. Still, it has helped me many times to "recycle" spell slots that I needed. I almost used it as if it were a cantrip (with a level 5 slot, for example, then you can throw it "for free" with level 4, 3 and 2). That will not work against a boss, of course, but against minions at a very low cost.
And of course, obviously it also depends on how the DM is. If he stretches the gap between rests a lot, and puts up a lot of fights for you to spend your resources, Expert Divnation can be the difference. If you can rest whenever you want, and you are almost always full of resources, then it is not so good. But in any case it is always useful.
Abjurers and Bladesingers are about as defensive as a Barbarian. They can wade right into melee. I believe that they are the only subclasses that can _regularly_ do that.
Less defensive, but still quite defensive are Illusionists, Diviners, and Enchanters. They all have strong defenses that aren't always available.
It is my understanding that the other subclasses are better left in the rear ranks.
My personal favorite subclass is Illusionists.
Hexblade! Most wizards can benefit from starting artificer, but for evokers the "hexvoker" big missile build is a big winner! Stack your proficiency bonus AND int modifier onto the magic missile roll! :D
If you are going pure wizard, bladesinger would give you a good melee range defensive capability; however, since you mentioned exceptional magic capabilities, i assume you wouldn't want to supplement the build with melee targeted spells. In that instance, i would think maybe war wizard for the arcane deflection, tactical wit, and durable magic features. Being able to increase your initiative roll is great. Going first is one of the best defenses for a wizard.
𝕚 𝕙𝕒𝕧𝕖 𝕒 𝕔𝕒𝕗𝕗𝕚𝕟𝕒𝕥𝕖𝕕 𝕛𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕪 𝕓𝕖𝕒𝕟 𝕒𝕕𝕕𝕚𝕔𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟
……!!!!
Well, how about that!
I might keep that character concept in my back pocket for some time in the future.
Why do people call these things "character concepts"? I'm trying to politely ask a question knowing that tone travels poorly over the Internet and I'm likely to piss off somebody. Isn't "character' a matter of personality, wants, needs, wounds, goals, desires, secret desires, etc.?
Whew...I understand that that True Seeing nets you a 6th level slot back, but from level 11-18 you only get *one* 6th level slot
I just can't justify casting True Seeing unless I specifically need to see into the Ethereal Plane or find a magic door
Here's the thing: if you're going to broadcast your exasperation & this idea that you're going to "piss someone off"...you're putting that message out there already. There is nothing "polite" about that. So that's why the tone is translating poorly.
You want to ask a question?
Then just ask the question. Nicely.
Now, if you want me to justify why I use the phrase "character concept" in application to a specific mechanic, rather than "personality, wants, needs, wounds, goals, desires, secret desires, etc."...
...it's because those things are already with the character in my head; this is just something that they would DO.
I'm aware that isn't terribly accurate...but truthfully?
I'm not writing a news article.
I'm not obligated to be 100% accurate with my thoughts in casual conversation on my coffee break.
It's a game! Have FUN.
Don't go mucking your thoughts up with the tiny details...especially other people's tiny details.
True Seeing gives you many things. The main thing is truesight, which basically allows you to see in any kind of dark, ignore any kind of visual illusions, magical disguises, shapeshifting, etc... Plus you see anything invisible like traps, creatures, etc...
The added bonus is detecting magically hidden doors which is very good in many dungeons. Of course, you have to have good sense to use it. In any case, you always have to have good judgment to get the most out of a wizard, nothing new here.
It's a great spell. It's obviously a lvl 6 spell slot, because what it gives you can literally change a game.
Obviously, if there are no invisible things in your game, no visual illusions, no shape changes, etc... It is a spell that is of practically no use to you. But those things are very common in D&D, so it's strange that it doesn't work for you.
For single class characters, I think chronurgy is the best. When it comes to multiclass characters, I prefer baldesinger with battlesmith or armorer artificer.
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Multiclassing a bladesinger is tough. There is almost no point where you would be better off with anything other than wizard levels.
The only class I have seen that works really well with a bladesinger is a 4-level arcane trickster. You still lose 3 caster levels but you gain a mild sneak attack damage boost and a ton of bonus action options you would not otherwise have as well as more cantrips. If you start as Rogue you have 2 proficiencies and dex saves. Even with this though you are still giving up power.
I'm about to start playing a mid-level character who is an artificer/bladesinger. While I agree it's hard to justify getting anything other than just more Wizard levels, in planning him out, I think that two levels of Artificer isn't that detrimental. I talked about it in another thread, but here are some highlights:
Start as an Artificer which give light armor proficiency right away instead of hiding for a level. You also get shield proficiency. But Bladesinger's can't use shields, I hear you scream. They only can't use shields while bladesinging. So you can walk around with a shield for mundane battles and drop it when you need to start the feature. Since early levels mean fewer opportunities to use the feature per long rest, it can come in handy.
You also start with Constitution proficiency which means you don't have to think about using a feat to get Resilient (Con) later. You'll also gain two cantrips and 3-4 spells, many of which are shared with Wizard so that when you start your Wizard class, you can use that initial 6 free spells for more diversity rather that wasting it on typical starting spells (i.e. sleep, mage armor, etc). Speaking of spells, since the number of spells an Artificer can prepare is also based on Int, when you raise your Int via ASI, you end up getting two spell; one any level Wizard and one 1st-level Artificer spell. Finally, you can use your Magical Tinkering for a ton of effects.
At second level, continue with Artificer and gain four infusions: Enhanced Arcane Focus which will work for both Wizard and Artificer casting, Homunculus Servant as a flying metal gundam for your familiar, Enhanced Weapon which can be used on your bladesinging weapon, and Enhanced Defense to soup up your armor.
From level 3 and beyond it's all Wizard. Yes, you are two levels behind straight Wizard, but you gain a number of bonuses to compensate.
I thought this thread was about the best subclass, not the best mixed clas
As I see it, the subclasses can be graded on the following
*best spell efficiency (e.g. the ability to reuse spells or to get new spell uses; Illusionist, Conjurer, Diviner, etc.)
*best defenses over the long term (e.g. Abjurer)
*and over the short term (e.g. Diviner)
*most flexibility
*most sustained damage
*best nova
*most out of combat utility
thats what it should
Personally, I think the Diviner’s combat spells are their divinations.
For example, Use Arcane Eye to find the best place to Teleport (or Dimension Door or whatever) into and come in quickly, attack from surprise, and take cover.
No Idea What's Going On But! I Think Necromancy Is The Best Subclass Of A Magic User!
Each to his own. RAW it is difficult to use a shield as a bladesinger. Aside from the bladesong restriction it takes an action to stow and both shield and absorb elements require somatic components, which make it difficult without giving up and ASI for warcaster.
I would also start as a wizard for Wisdom saves and I would advise not getting resilient con. You really need to push both dex and intelligence if you want to tank as a bladesinger. Concentration saves are not a problem on a bladesinger because you add your intelligence bonus in bladesong AND you very rarely get hit. You will drop concentration occasionally from a breath weapon or lucky hit, but on a bladesinge,r wisdom saves are more critical as they will put you out of the fight for a turn or more which can be deadly when you are in melee range.
If youn are not planning to tank that is all less critical.
There are good tank builds for Armorer/Bladesingers. Battlesmith/Bladesingers lack a the Armorer's taunt and second weapon attack, but they still have an incredibly high AC. Personally I would never even consider playing a singleclass bladesinger, the Artificer's intelligence based attacks is what makes the subclass worth playing in the first place.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
A Bladesinger can add both intelligence and dexterity to attacks at level 14. With a 3-level dip, a battlesmith will be behind a single class bladesinger in melee damage for most levels. He will be slightly ahead in level 3-5 due to using a higher damage weapon and again at levels 9-13, but at every other level, the battlesmith/bladesinger multiclass is behind a single-class bladesinger. At 6-8 he is behind because he does not have extra attack yet and he is behind again at 14+ when the bladesinger gets Song of Victory.
The real reason I don't like multiclassing on a bladesinger tank build though is you get milestones a lot later and this seriously reduces your defenses just about every level compared to a single class. With a 3-level dip you wait 3 more levels to get Protection from Good and Evil (4), bladesong (5), blur (6), Misty Step (6), extra attack (9), song of defense (13) and contingency (14). These spells and abilities are largely what makes a bladesinger outshine just about every other subclass in terms of surviving in melee.
The only dip that I don't think hurts is a 1-level warlock dip (Undead, Hexblade or Genie) taken at level 7. Compared to a normal bladesinger, that only puts them a level behind for the higher level abilities and spells and if you take it at level 7 it does not delay extra attack or blur. Warlock gives you Armor of Agathys which is better than False Life for your high levels and it gives you a 1st level slot for shield that recharges on a short rest. These subclasses all give sold abilities too with a 1-level dip that work well in melee - Form of dread, even with a poor save, pairs really well with a bladesinger using extra attack, although it takes 2 rounds to get online with Bladesong. Hexblade gives you weapons if you do not have weapon proficencies through your race and the curse, Genie boosts damage. I would not go more than 1 level though and would not take the dip before 7th level.