Hi, I recently started actually playing dnd and I'm planning on making a wizard that eventually multiclasses for a couple levels into something that gives me some better ac (either through armor or something else), but I don't know what best to pick. It'll be an illusion wizard that also uses necromancy for those who want to know. Does anybody have suggestions?
I'm curious as well, I am a big multi classer with most of my chars....Wiz's are the one of best solo classes in the game and its killing me being squishy. I'm playing a Chrono mage and was thinking about Artificer Battlesmith / Alchemist or Blood Hunter but I just can't see BH fitting into my Out of the Abyss campaign. I'll look further through the forums.
On a side note I was trying to Create a Dr Strange type Wiz and thought of going Wiz / Astral Monk but just dont have the Ability Scores for it.
I’d hazard to say that a Wizard only wants to multiclass a level, or two, maximum.
You could make an argument for three…but of course, your spellcasting progression suffers.
If you do multiclass, typically you’d want to start in the other class to gain some benefit for the rest of the levels you put into Wizard.
For me, it’s either been:
Artificer - a great multiclass, as it gives the Wizard extra useful proficiencies, up to medium armor & shields, proficiency in Constitution saving throws…a big deal, since that helps them concentrate on their spells…and the spells the Artificers get that Wizard’s don’t normally get are very useful (Faerie Fire, Sanctuary, Cure Wounds, to name a few). Two levels in Artificer even gets them item infusions to enhance the Wizard play style.
Fighter - multiclassing Fighter let’s the Wizard gain weapon & armor proficiencies, a Fighting Style, and Constitution saving throw proficiency. Prior to the Artificer, the Fighter was how you helped make your Wizard sturdier; and it’s still a decent minor multiclass.
Rogue - this is a personal preference; but I occasionally like to multiclass a level or two into Rogue for two reasons: Expertise in certain skills of choice to help the Wizard bolster out of combat utility…and Cunning Action, which increases the Wizard’s mobility & stealth capabilities. Being able to Disengage a threat, run very fast with Dash, or Hide from a threat as a bonus action, really helps a normally squishy Wizard.
Just do level 1 cleric...that's all you need....imo. you get your medium armor proficiency and your owl familiar is now a flying holy healbot. I like forge cleric personally
The best dips for a Wizard are generally Cleric and Artificer. Both classes will keep your spell slot advancement whole. What they won't do is advance your spells learned.
To get that set of plate, you will forever be X levels behind. For example, at 5th level when martials are getting their second attack and other casters are getting their 3rd level slots, you have to wait. No fireball, counterspell, fly or hypnotic pattern for you. Then at every other level where you might have learned the next level of spells, you have to wait. When your class is all about your spell list, that really hurts, because the monsters don't wait. Their CR is expecting fireball, counterspell etc. on level.
Some would argue that the features from a 1-2 level dip might mesh with your character concept or add something that's worthwhile to your class/subclass mechanics. It really depends what it is. It can also depend on whether you're the party's only caster and the type of adventure being run.
All multiclass characters have to weight the benefits. Mostly, for wizards, it's not worth it.
If you find your AC being a problem and the illusion sub-class isn't absolutely critical you might consider asking your DM if you can change sub-class to Bladesinger; they have the option of being more fighty, and Bladesong is actually a really good defensive feature (you can use the extra defence to go more on the offence, but you can also just use it when you're in trouble).
Otherwise as Brian_Avery said, you've got a lot of other options on a Wizard for getting better AC, or avoiding the need for it entirely. I'd add onto that that if you're an illusion wizard, then use illusions to avoid being attacked; an enemy can't attack what they can't see, or if they're attacking something that isn't real instead etc. Some of the most powerful illusion spells will come sooner if you don't multiclass, so that's another reason to stay the course.
Lastly, you could consider picking up a feat for armour proficiency, or asking your DM if the campaign is likely to feature any time skips where your Wizard could have gained proficiency via training.
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Probably Cleric is what I would go to for this. You get your sublcass at level 1 and don't lose any spell slots with this dip. Additionally you can pick up some utility and some off-class cantrips and 1st-level spells.
If you don't have a 13 Wisdom then I would look at Artificer. It does not give you as much on 1-level, but you do get thieves tools and tinkerers tools as well as the armor you are looking for.
As an option you can also play a race that gets you medium armor.
To be totally honest, the main weakness of a Wizard is the # of prepared spells. You can learn unlimited # of them, but you only get Int + level. Adding more of those is a bigger boost, especially as the armor, etc. are all pretty similar regardless of which 2ndary class you get. Oh you get different spells and different abilities, but those differences are minor.
Artificer means you get to add your Int again + 1/2 your Art level. Assuming you take 2 levels of Artificer and int of 18 (by level 4 of wizard), that means Artificer gives you an extra 4+2/2 = 5 spells prepared. Cleric gives you wisdom, plus your cleric level, plus domain spells. Assuming a Wisdom of 14, that would be 2+1+2 domain = 5 spells prepared, but 2 must be chosen by your domain. Usually that means you get 4 good ones and one OK spell.
Moreover, once you boost your Int to 20, artificer goes up to 6 spells known. For this reason, 1 or 2 levels of Artificer is a better deal than 1 or 2 Cleric. '
Artificer spells you will always have prepared can easily include: Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, and Identify. All of these spells will still be useful even at 20th level. But you might be content to let Detect Magic and Identify be done with a ritual, so you could replace those 2 with others.
To my mind the only reason to multi-class into a class besides Artificer is for role playing purposes.
At 20th level you have gained 6 extra spells known (all 1st level), have medium armor, shield use, slight HP bonus, cantrips. In exchange you have given up: one ASI/feat, and the 2 signature 3rd level spells, your extra 7th level slot. The ASI/feat is roughly equivelent to getting the armor and shield. The 6 extra spells known make up for the signature spell (there are only so many counter-spells and fireballs you will cast in a day).
So the question is does casting Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, and 2 infusions make up for a 6th and 7th level slot. That is going to depend more on your game, but in my opinion a Mind Sharpener is worth the 7th level slot. So it is a very close call.
In my mind, an Artificer 2/Wizard + is worth it.
The cleric {Light} 1 / Wizard + build is similar. You do not give up the 7th levels slot, but most likely have only 5 extra spells known and your first level spells are different. The Warding Flare ability may be worth it for you. The Cleric {light} 2, gives up the asi/feat in exchange for a 1/day Channel , none of the channels are worth the ASI at 20th level
Prepared spells are a weakness for Wizards, but I don't think any class except Sorcerer is going to solve that because most of the 1st level spells you want to keep are not on other classes.
An artificer can prepare up to 5 spells with a 1-level dup, but it won't actually be 5 until you have a 20 Intelligence and a cleric with a 14 wisdom will have 5 immediately (uncluding 2 domain spells). Also of those 5, the only ones that are likely going to free up wizard prepared spells are feather fall and absorb elements. If you want shield, protection from good and evil or silvery barbs you are still going to need to prepare them as a wizard or get them on a feat. So it is really only 2 spells that matter for thee wizard's prepared spells.
With a cleric and a 14 Wisdom you can pick up 5 immediately, so it is going to be more than the artificer at the begining and the same with a 20 intelligence (and then more again if you boost widsom as a secondary stat). The only one for a cleric that is going to replace a wizard spell is Protection from Good and Evil, but the rest of their spell list is far better, so the other 4 are going to generally be better than what you can pick up with artificer
A 2-level artificer dip will gain you 1 more spell (again not a good one) but cost you spell slots.
For a Cleric first level gets one more cantrip and a subclass that usually gives pretty awesome abilities. That subclass can include Heavy Armor, one upping the medium armor available from the Artificer. Finally if a 2-level clerid dip will get you 6 spells prepared, the same number as an artificer and it gets you channel divinity which remains powerful throughout the game and can be used to recover a cast 1st level slot.
The main downside to a cleric is that it is MAD, for a primary caster it will outperform a 1 or 2 level artificer dip most of the time I think.
I disagree about the spells being the wrong spells. ESPECIALLY about them not being 'good ones'. Artificer gives you Faerie Fire (single best 1st level spell), Absorb Elements and Cure Wounds. Yes, you are giving up first level wizard spells, but the artificer ones you get are as good as teh Cleric ones.
Also, note for Cleric you almost have to take Wizard first (as if you take Cleric first your saves are Wisdom and Charisma - which is probably a dump stat).
Consider a 6th level character, 1 Artificer, 5 wizard vs pure 7th level Wizard Assume an 18th Int.
You get a total of 4 first level Artificer spells: 1(4): Absorb Elements, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, Cure Wounds. All four are good, though Feather Fall is situational (but when you need it, you really need it).
You get 11 Wizard spells, and take: 1(2) : Shield, Silvery Barbs, 2 (4): Misty Step, Blur, Dragon's Breath, Levitation, 3(5): Counterspell, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Blink, Haste,
Vs a pure 6th level Wizard with 12 wizard spells: 1(3) : Shield, Silvery Barbs, Absorb Elements, 2 (4): Misty Step, Blur, Dragon's Breath, Levitation, 3(5): Counterspell, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Blink, Haste.
When your Int goes up, you get TWO extra spells, which really matters at just about the time your Int goes up.
That is a huge improvement.
You tried to pretend that the other stuff the Cleric gets is better than Artificer, but that is bull.
The artificer gives you Medium Armor and Shields. FIREARMS (unless your DM punks you out), same HP as Cleric. Not to mention the tool proficiencies and if you take it first you get Constitution and Intelligence as your good saves. Con saves are slightly more important than Wisdom, because of Concentration checks to maintain spells.
Compare with a Cleric. I will choose one that gave you Heavy Armor as you seem to like that. Tempest has the best of the spells:
So Cleric (Tempest) 1/ Wizard gives you a spell list of: Fog Cloud, Thunderwave, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, and Bless. Two good ones, three OK.
For Wizard, they have 11, but you failed to get Absorb Elements, so now your list is:
Had to give up one of the wizard spells you wanted. Yes, you do get Guiding Bolt, and you have upgraded Cure Light Wounds to Healing Word, but you do not have Faerie Fire at all.
You also get Heavy Armor, rather than Medium, so you are now arguing with other PC's about the best armor when you find it. You also get the nice Tempest ability Wrath of the Storm, but is a reaction after you get hit. You have Shield, so the only time you will ever use Wrath of the Storm will be after you have already used up all your first level spells.
Net net, these two characters are very close and that is BEFORE considering MAD. You need a Wisdom of at least 14 PLUS a Strength of 15 to make Heavy Armor worth it.
Once you consider this, chances are you will be burning an ASI or two just to obtain the stats neccessary to run your build.
Not saying it is a BAD build, it is still pretty good. I would rank it an 8 out of 10. But your MAD cleric is not as good as the Artificer Build which is 9/10.
Also, the main reason to take Artificer 2 is to get Mind Sharpener. 4 chances to redo your failed concentration check, assuming you have a reaction available. Granted for attacks you will have used Shield, and for elemental spells Absorb Elements, but when you get hit by a Necro, Force, Psychic, Radiant, save spell you will be using the Mind Sharpener.
I disagree about the spells being the wrong spells. ESPECIALLY about them not being 'good ones'. Artificer gives you Faerie Fire (single best 1st level spell), Absorb Elements and Cure Wounds. Yes, you are giving up first level wizard spells, but the artificer ones you get are as good as teh Cleric ones.
Consider a 6th level character, 1 Artificer, 5 wizard vs pure 7th level Wizard Assume an 18th Int.
You get a total of 4 first level Artificer spells: 1(4): Absorb Elements, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, Cure Wounds. All four are good, though Feather Fall is situational (but when you need it, you really need it).
Compare with a Cleric. I will choose one that gave you Heavy Armor as you seem to like that. Tempest has the best of the spells:
So Cleric (Tempest) 1/ Wizard gives you a spell list of: Fog Cloud, Thunderwave, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, and Bless. Two good ones, three OK.
As far as cleric, the best one to get is not Tempest, but Twilight, which also gives you Faerie Fire for free.
Comparing a 1=level dip spell for spell with a 14 wisdom and 18 Intelligence at 6th level (total):
- BOTH characters get Faerie Fire Awash
- The Artificer gets Cure Wounds, while the Cleric gets Healing word Advantage Cleric
- Artificer has Absorb Elements, Cleric has Protection from Good and Evil - Awash.
- Artificer has Feather Fall, Cleric has Bless: Bless is better than FF, but FF does keep someone else from preparing it. Awash
Cleric gets sleep and 1 more spell (sanctuary probably): Advantage Cleric
That is a better comparison and they have the same number of Wizard spells prepared after that, so cleric is ahead in terms of spells.
Side note you also should not get an attack spell as a cleric with a 14 Wisdom unless it is REALLY good and Guiding bolt isn't, also Faerie Fire is not great for a high level wizard because there are too many better spells to concentrate on.
You tried to pretend that the other stuff the Cleric gets is better than Artificer, but that is bull.
The artificer gives you Medium Armor and Shields. FIREARMS (unless your DM punks you out), same HP as Cleric. Not to mention the tool proficiencies and if you take it first you get Constitution and Intelligence as your good saves. Con saves are slightly more important than Wisdom, because of Concentration checks to maintain spells.
Compare with a Cleric. I will choose one that gave you Heavy Armor as you seem to like that.
I have played in one game total with Firearms and they are not prolific in any published WOTC adventure I have played, so while that might be worthwhile in some campaigns it is not relevant in most. On top of that though, a high level wizard is not going to be using firearms much considering the spells he has and even the Cantrips are going to outrun firearms at level 5, even more so against monsters resistant to non-magic damage. You are also not pumping dexterity. If dips with at-will damage matters; a death cleric dip will let you twin Toll The Dead and Chill Touch and he can do it using intelligence in addition to getting heavy armor.
Back to twilight cleric though:
On a 1-level dip Twilight Cleric also gets you heavy armor, more cantrips, advantage on initiative and the best darkvision in the game (in addition to the ability to give it to 2 other players). I think that stacks up pretty well and is a lot better than Firearms, medium armor and constitution instead of wisdom (and note you have to start as an artificer to get that con save).
Also, the main reason to take Artificer 2 is to get Mind Sharpener. 4 chances to redo your failed concentration check, assuming you have a reaction available. Granted for attacks you will have used Shield, and for elemental spells Absorb Elements, but when you get hit by a Necro, Force, Psychic, Radiant, save spell you will be using the Mind Sharpener.
Do you really want to talk about level 2 when a cleric gets twilight sanctuary as well as the ability to restore a lost slot in addition to getting a level worth of slots?
Old post, but 2 lvl dip into warlock to get armor of agythus and armor of shadows then play an abjuration wizard = a wizard that actually wants to get hit. Your abj ward will deplete before the temp hit points of AoA, but an attacker will still take the cold damage.
With wizards, you can choose mountain dwarf of legacy Githyanki (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes) for light and medium armor and not have to multiclass. Or start with one level in cleric (I like twilight for heavy armor, an intiative boost and shareable improved darkvision but forge would give you +1 armor). Oh, old post.
The issue with Mountain Dwarf (and maybe legacy Githyanki, but I don't own that on dnd beyond) is that they get medium armor but not shield. Without the shield, medium armor is good but not all that much better than mage armor. Definitely better to dip artificer or cleric than to take one of those races if that's your only reason for taking them. Also multiclassing cleric or artificer doesn't delay your spell casting progression. It only delays spell preparation which sucks but it does mean you won't be behind all the other casters in terms of spell slots.
If you want armor, artificer with the armorer subclass is probably the best. You get heavy armor proficiency, arcane armor waves the strength requirement, and you get a special weapon that uses your intelligence modifier. Not to mention you get 2 infusions. In addition, starting with artificer gives you proficiency in constitution and intelligence. That will help you with concentration checks. This will require 3 lvls in, but it's pretty solid for making you a sturdy wizard.
I disagree as almost every full caster can benefit from a one level dip. For example as this post was talking about a wizard, a one level dip onto artificer (which also uses intelligence so no need to change stats around) doesn't stop a wizard from gaining spells slots at the appropriate levels, only slows down spell preparations (they could get 3rd level spell slots at level 5 but they have to wait until 6th level to prepare fireball). Additionally they gain proficiency in constitution saving throws which are imo the most important saving throw for a wizard as it handles concentration which a lot of key wizard spells (web, wall of force, hypnotic pattern, etc) are. Wizard's have absorb elements for dex saves, misty step for strength saves (most strength saves just end up restraining the character), they should have a good intelligence and artificer gives intelligence saving throw proficiency, wisdom saving throws are just gonna hurt until the wizard figures out a solution (resilient wisdom likely, but I do think wisdom is the second most important saving throw for wizards and one of the most important saves for every class), and most classes are gonna struggle with charisma saves anyways so not much you can do about that. One level in artificer also gives a wizard proficiency in medium armor and shield which will likely be a base 19 ac (assuming 14 dexterity) and 24 with the shield spell. I do agree that multiclassing can help martials such as a 2 level barbarian dip on a great weapon fighter fighter to get advantage on those attacks but I think multiclassing largely gives casters more bang for their buck. Let me know if you think I'm wrong.
I disagree as almost every full caster can benefit from a one level dip. For example as this post was talking about a wizard, a one level dip onto artificer (which also uses intelligence so no need to change stats around) doesn't stop a wizard from gaining spells slots at the appropriate levels, only slows down spell preparations (they could get 3rd level spell slots at level 5 but they have to wait until 6th level to prepare fireball). Additionally they gain proficiency in constitution saving throws which are imo the most important saving throw for a wizard as it handles concentration which a lot of key wizard spells (web, wall of force, hypnotic pattern, etc) are. Wizard's have absorb elements for dex saves, misty step for strength saves (most strength saves just end up restraining the character), they should have a good intelligence and artificer gives intelligence saving throw proficiency, wisdom saving throws are just gonna hurt until the wizard figures out a solution (resilient wisdom likely, but I do think wisdom is the second most important saving throw for wizards and one of the most important saves for every class), and most classes are gonna struggle with charisma saves anyways so not much you can do about that. One level in artificer also gives a wizard proficiency in medium armor and shield which will likely be a base 19 ac (assuming 14 dexterity) and 24 with the shield spell. I do agree that multiclassing can help martials such as a 2 level barbarian dip on a great weapon fighter fighter to get advantage on those attacks but I think multiclassing largely gives casters more bang for their buck. Let me know if you think I'm wrong.
I agree with most of this. In the 2024 rules Ranger and Paladin are good 1-level dips too because they get to round up for number of spell slots.
The one thing I disagree with is Constitution saving throws. I think Wisdom saves are the most important for most players, even for casters. Losing concentration is a concern but it can be mitigated to a degree with tactics and positioning and although you lose your spell you are still in the fight and can usually recast it even.
Failing a Wisdom save is usually more devastating overall than losing concentration. If you fail a Wisdom save you are often out of the fight for a while or worse you are sometimes fighting for the other side.
This is especially true in high level play where they can be impossible to make without proficiency.
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Hi, I recently started actually playing dnd and I'm planning on making a wizard that eventually multiclasses for a couple levels into something that gives me some better ac (either through armor or something else), but I don't know what best to pick. It'll be an illusion wizard that also uses necromancy for those who want to know. Does anybody have suggestions?
Thanks for the advice, but why do they actually get weaker? I've heared it before in videos and such but never really got why.
I'm curious as well, I am a big multi classer with most of my chars....Wiz's are the one of best solo classes in the game and its killing me being squishy. I'm playing a Chrono mage and was thinking about Artificer Battlesmith / Alchemist or Blood Hunter but I just can't see BH fitting into my Out of the Abyss campaign. I'll look further through the forums.
On a side note I was trying to Create a Dr Strange type Wiz and thought of going Wiz / Astral Monk but just dont have the Ability Scores for it.
While I agree that a straight wizard gives you the goods ASAP, fighter 2 is a strong choice with worthwhile returns.
I’d hazard to say that a Wizard only wants to multiclass a level, or two, maximum.
You could make an argument for three…but of course, your spellcasting progression suffers.
If you do multiclass, typically you’d want to start in the other class to gain some benefit for the rest of the levels you put into Wizard.
For me, it’s either been:
Artificer - a great multiclass, as it gives the Wizard extra useful proficiencies, up to medium armor & shields, proficiency in Constitution saving throws…a big deal, since that helps them concentrate on their spells…and the spells the Artificers get that Wizard’s don’t normally get are very useful (Faerie Fire, Sanctuary, Cure Wounds, to name a few). Two levels in Artificer even gets them item infusions to enhance the Wizard play style.
Fighter - multiclassing Fighter let’s the Wizard gain weapon & armor proficiencies, a Fighting Style, and Constitution saving throw proficiency. Prior to the Artificer, the Fighter was how you helped make your Wizard sturdier; and it’s still a decent minor multiclass.
Rogue - this is a personal preference; but I occasionally like to multiclass a level or two into Rogue for two reasons: Expertise in certain skills of choice to help the Wizard bolster out of combat utility…and Cunning Action, which increases the Wizard’s mobility & stealth capabilities. Being able to Disengage a threat, run very fast with Dash, or Hide from a threat as a bonus action, really helps a normally squishy Wizard.
Just do level 1 cleric...that's all you need....imo. you get your medium armor proficiency and your owl familiar is now a flying holy healbot. I like forge cleric personally
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The best dips for a Wizard are generally Cleric and Artificer. Both classes will keep your spell slot advancement whole. What they won't do is advance your spells learned.
To get that set of plate, you will forever be X levels behind. For example, at 5th level when martials are getting their second attack and other casters are getting their 3rd level slots, you have to wait. No fireball, counterspell, fly or hypnotic pattern for you. Then at every other level where you might have learned the next level of spells, you have to wait. When your class is all about your spell list, that really hurts, because the monsters don't wait. Their CR is expecting fireball, counterspell etc. on level.
Some would argue that the features from a 1-2 level dip might mesh with your character concept or add something that's worthwhile to your class/subclass mechanics. It really depends what it is. It can also depend on whether you're the party's only caster and the type of adventure being run.
All multiclass characters have to weight the benefits. Mostly, for wizards, it's not worth it.
If you find your AC being a problem and the illusion sub-class isn't absolutely critical you might consider asking your DM if you can change sub-class to Bladesinger; they have the option of being more fighty, and Bladesong is actually a really good defensive feature (you can use the extra defence to go more on the offence, but you can also just use it when you're in trouble).
Otherwise as Brian_Avery said, you've got a lot of other options on a Wizard for getting better AC, or avoiding the need for it entirely. I'd add onto that that if you're an illusion wizard, then use illusions to avoid being attacked; an enemy can't attack what they can't see, or if they're attacking something that isn't real instead etc. Some of the most powerful illusion spells will come sooner if you don't multiclass, so that's another reason to stay the course.
Lastly, you could consider picking up a feat for armour proficiency, or asking your DM if the campaign is likely to feature any time skips where your Wizard could have gained proficiency via training.
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Probably Cleric is what I would go to for this. You get your sublcass at level 1 and don't lose any spell slots with this dip. Additionally you can pick up some utility and some off-class cantrips and 1st-level spells.
If you don't have a 13 Wisdom then I would look at Artificer. It does not give you as much on 1-level, but you do get thieves tools and tinkerers tools as well as the armor you are looking for.
As an option you can also play a race that gets you medium armor.
To be totally honest, the main weakness of a Wizard is the # of prepared spells. You can learn unlimited # of them, but you only get Int + level. Adding more of those is a bigger boost, especially as the armor, etc. are all pretty similar regardless of which 2ndary class you get. Oh you get different spells and different abilities, but those differences are minor.
Artificer means you get to add your Int again + 1/2 your Art level. Assuming you take 2 levels of Artificer and int of 18 (by level 4 of wizard), that means Artificer gives you an extra 4+2/2 = 5 spells prepared. Cleric gives you wisdom, plus your cleric level, plus domain spells. Assuming a Wisdom of 14, that would be 2+1+2 domain = 5 spells prepared, but 2 must be chosen by your domain. Usually that means you get 4 good ones and one OK spell.
Moreover, once you boost your Int to 20, artificer goes up to 6 spells known. For this reason, 1 or 2 levels of Artificer is a better deal than 1 or 2 Cleric. '
Artificer spells you will always have prepared can easily include: Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, and Identify. All of these spells will still be useful even at 20th level. But you might be content to let Detect Magic and Identify be done with a ritual, so you could replace those 2 with others.
To my mind the only reason to multi-class into a class besides Artificer is for role playing purposes.
At 20th level you have gained 6 extra spells known (all 1st level), have medium armor, shield use, slight HP bonus, cantrips. In exchange you have given up: one ASI/feat, and the 2 signature 3rd level spells, your extra 7th level slot. The ASI/feat is roughly equivelent to getting the armor and shield. The 6 extra spells known make up for the signature spell (there are only so many counter-spells and fireballs you will cast in a day).
So the question is does casting Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, and 2 infusions make up for a 6th and 7th level slot. That is going to depend more on your game, but in my opinion a Mind Sharpener is worth the 7th level slot. So it is a very close call.
In my mind, an Artificer 2/Wizard + is worth it.
The cleric {Light} 1 / Wizard + build is similar. You do not give up the 7th levels slot, but most likely have only 5 extra spells known and your first level spells are different. The Warding Flare ability may be worth it for you. The Cleric {light} 2, gives up the asi/feat in exchange for a 1/day Channel , none of the channels are worth the ASI at 20th level
Prepared spells are a weakness for Wizards, but I don't think any class except Sorcerer is going to solve that because most of the 1st level spells you want to keep are not on other classes.
An artificer can prepare up to 5 spells with a 1-level dup, but it won't actually be 5 until you have a 20 Intelligence and a cleric with a 14 wisdom will have 5 immediately (uncluding 2 domain spells). Also of those 5, the only ones that are likely going to free up wizard prepared spells are feather fall and absorb elements. If you want shield, protection from good and evil or silvery barbs you are still going to need to prepare them as a wizard or get them on a feat. So it is really only 2 spells that matter for thee wizard's prepared spells.
With a cleric and a 14 Wisdom you can pick up 5 immediately, so it is going to be more than the artificer at the begining and the same with a 20 intelligence (and then more again if you boost widsom as a secondary stat). The only one for a cleric that is going to replace a wizard spell is Protection from Good and Evil, but the rest of their spell list is far better, so the other 4 are going to generally be better than what you can pick up with artificer
A 2-level artificer dip will gain you 1 more spell (again not a good one) but cost you spell slots.
For a Cleric first level gets one more cantrip and a subclass that usually gives pretty awesome abilities. That subclass can include Heavy Armor, one upping the medium armor available from the Artificer. Finally if a 2-level clerid dip will get you 6 spells prepared, the same number as an artificer and it gets you channel divinity which remains powerful throughout the game and can be used to recover a cast 1st level slot.
The main downside to a cleric is that it is MAD, for a primary caster it will outperform a 1 or 2 level artificer dip most of the time I think.
I disagree about the spells being the wrong spells. ESPECIALLY about them not being 'good ones'. Artificer gives you Faerie Fire (single best 1st level spell), Absorb Elements and Cure Wounds. Yes, you are giving up first level wizard spells, but the artificer ones you get are as good as teh Cleric ones.
Also, note for Cleric you almost have to take Wizard first (as if you take Cleric first your saves are Wisdom and Charisma - which is probably a dump stat).
Consider a 6th level character, 1 Artificer, 5 wizard vs pure 7th level Wizard Assume an 18th Int.
You get a total of 4 first level Artificer spells: 1(4): Absorb Elements, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, Cure Wounds. All four are good, though Feather Fall is situational (but when you need it, you really need it).
You get 11 Wizard spells, and take: 1(2) : Shield, Silvery Barbs, 2 (4): Misty Step, Blur, Dragon's Breath, Levitation, 3(5): Counterspell, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Blink, Haste,
Vs a pure 6th level Wizard with 12 wizard spells: 1(3) : Shield, Silvery Barbs, Absorb Elements, 2 (4): Misty Step, Blur, Dragon's Breath, Levitation, 3(5): Counterspell, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Blink, Haste.
When your Int goes up, you get TWO extra spells, which really matters at just about the time your Int goes up.
That is a huge improvement.
You tried to pretend that the other stuff the Cleric gets is better than Artificer, but that is bull.
The artificer gives you Medium Armor and Shields. FIREARMS (unless your DM punks you out), same HP as Cleric. Not to mention the tool proficiencies and if you take it first you get Constitution and Intelligence as your good saves. Con saves are slightly more important than Wisdom, because of Concentration checks to maintain spells.
Compare with a Cleric. I will choose one that gave you Heavy Armor as you seem to like that. Tempest has the best of the spells:
So Cleric (Tempest) 1/ Wizard gives you a spell list of: Fog Cloud, Thunderwave, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, and Bless. Two good ones, three OK.
For Wizard, they have 11, but you failed to get Absorb Elements, so now your list is:
1(3) : Absorb Elements, Shield, Silvery Barbs, 2 (4): Misty Step, Blur, Dragon's Breath, Levitation, 3(4): Counterspell, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Haste,
Had to give up one of the wizard spells you wanted. Yes, you do get Guiding Bolt, and you have upgraded Cure Light Wounds to Healing Word, but you do not have Faerie Fire at all.
You also get Heavy Armor, rather than Medium, so you are now arguing with other PC's about the best armor when you find it. You also get the nice Tempest ability Wrath of the Storm, but is a reaction after you get hit. You have Shield, so the only time you will ever use Wrath of the Storm will be after you have already used up all your first level spells.
Net net, these two characters are very close and that is BEFORE considering MAD. You need a Wisdom of at least 14 PLUS a Strength of 15 to make Heavy Armor worth it.
Once you consider this, chances are you will be burning an ASI or two just to obtain the stats neccessary to run your build.
Not saying it is a BAD build, it is still pretty good. I would rank it an 8 out of 10. But your MAD cleric is not as good as the Artificer Build which is 9/10.
Also, the main reason to take Artificer 2 is to get Mind Sharpener. 4 chances to redo your failed concentration check, assuming you have a reaction available. Granted for attacks you will have used Shield, and for elemental spells Absorb Elements, but when you get hit by a Necro, Force, Psychic, Radiant, save spell you will be using the Mind Sharpener.
As far as cleric, the best one to get is not Tempest, but Twilight, which also gives you Faerie Fire for free.
Comparing a 1=level dip spell for spell with a 14 wisdom and 18 Intelligence at 6th level (total):
- BOTH characters get Faerie Fire Awash
- The Artificer gets Cure Wounds, while the Cleric gets Healing word Advantage Cleric
- Artificer has Absorb Elements, Cleric has Protection from Good and Evil - Awash.
- Artificer has Feather Fall, Cleric has Bless: Bless is better than FF, but FF does keep someone else from preparing it. Awash
Cleric gets sleep and 1 more spell (sanctuary probably): Advantage Cleric
That is a better comparison and they have the same number of Wizard spells prepared after that, so cleric is ahead in terms of spells.
Side note you also should not get an attack spell as a cleric with a 14 Wisdom unless it is REALLY good and Guiding bolt isn't, also Faerie Fire is not great for a high level wizard because there are too many better spells to concentrate on.
I have played in one game total with Firearms and they are not prolific in any published WOTC adventure I have played, so while that might be worthwhile in some campaigns it is not relevant in most. On top of that though, a high level wizard is not going to be using firearms much considering the spells he has and even the Cantrips are going to outrun firearms at level 5, even more so against monsters resistant to non-magic damage. You are also not pumping dexterity. If dips with at-will damage matters; a death cleric dip will let you twin Toll The Dead and Chill Touch and he can do it using intelligence in addition to getting heavy armor.
Back to twilight cleric though:
On a 1-level dip Twilight Cleric also gets you heavy armor, more cantrips, advantage on initiative and the best darkvision in the game (in addition to the ability to give it to 2 other players). I think that stacks up pretty well and is a lot better than Firearms, medium armor and constitution instead of wisdom (and note you have to start as an artificer to get that con save).
Do you really want to talk about level 2 when a cleric gets twilight sanctuary as well as the ability to restore a lost slot in addition to getting a level worth of slots?
Old post, but 2 lvl dip into warlock to get armor of agythus and armor of shadows then play an abjuration wizard = a wizard that actually wants to get hit. Your abj ward will deplete before the temp hit points of AoA, but an attacker will still take the cold damage.
With wizards, you can choose mountain dwarf of legacy Githyanki (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes) for light and medium armor and not have to multiclass. Or start with one level in cleric (I like twilight for heavy armor, an intiative boost and shareable improved darkvision but forge would give you +1 armor). Oh, old post.
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The issue with Mountain Dwarf (and maybe legacy Githyanki, but I don't own that on dnd beyond) is that they get medium armor but not shield. Without the shield, medium armor is good but not all that much better than mage armor. Definitely better to dip artificer or cleric than to take one of those races if that's your only reason for taking them. Also multiclassing cleric or artificer doesn't delay your spell casting progression. It only delays spell preparation which sucks but it does mean you won't be behind all the other casters in terms of spell slots.
If you want armor, artificer with the armorer subclass is probably the best. You get heavy armor proficiency, arcane armor waves the strength requirement, and you get a special weapon that uses your intelligence modifier. Not to mention you get 2 infusions. In addition, starting with artificer gives you proficiency in constitution and intelligence. That will help you with concentration checks. This will require 3 lvls in, but it's pretty solid for making you a sturdy wizard.
in general, multiclassing only works well for melee, as all of their abilities stack
I disagree as almost every full caster can benefit from a one level dip. For example as this post was talking about a wizard, a one level dip onto artificer (which also uses intelligence so no need to change stats around) doesn't stop a wizard from gaining spells slots at the appropriate levels, only slows down spell preparations (they could get 3rd level spell slots at level 5 but they have to wait until 6th level to prepare fireball). Additionally they gain proficiency in constitution saving throws which are imo the most important saving throw for a wizard as it handles concentration which a lot of key wizard spells (web, wall of force, hypnotic pattern, etc) are. Wizard's have absorb elements for dex saves, misty step for strength saves (most strength saves just end up restraining the character), they should have a good intelligence and artificer gives intelligence saving throw proficiency, wisdom saving throws are just gonna hurt until the wizard figures out a solution (resilient wisdom likely, but I do think wisdom is the second most important saving throw for wizards and one of the most important saves for every class), and most classes are gonna struggle with charisma saves anyways so not much you can do about that. One level in artificer also gives a wizard proficiency in medium armor and shield which will likely be a base 19 ac (assuming 14 dexterity) and 24 with the shield spell. I do agree that multiclassing can help martials such as a 2 level barbarian dip on a great weapon fighter fighter to get advantage on those attacks but I think multiclassing largely gives casters more bang for their buck. Let me know if you think I'm wrong.
I agree with most of this. In the 2024 rules Ranger and Paladin are good 1-level dips too because they get to round up for number of spell slots.
The one thing I disagree with is Constitution saving throws. I think Wisdom saves are the most important for most players, even for casters. Losing concentration is a concern but it can be mitigated to a degree with tactics and positioning and although you lose your spell you are still in the fight and can usually recast it even.
Failing a Wisdom save is usually more devastating overall than losing concentration. If you fail a Wisdom save you are often out of the fight for a while or worse you are sometimes fighting for the other side.
This is especially true in high level play where they can be impossible to make without proficiency.