I've read a lot of discussions about the Awakened Spellbook's ability to swap damage types of spells, but I'm not here to ask about that.
What about the book itself?
At level 2, becomes an "awakened spellbook," but what does that mean? Is it as if from an Awaken spell? Does that mean the spellbook can talk? Or does it have any other means of communication? Can it communicate with anyone other than the wizard? And what about the "Manifest Mind" ability. It specifically says it can telepathically communicate with the wizard, but can the manifested mind talk? Does it have any way of communicating with others other than bobbing up and down in a "hey, look at me" manner?
I'm playing a Scribes wizard now, and I had the level 2 "awakened spellbook" able to communicate telepathically with my wizard, which I thought was correct until I reached level 6 and realized that it was the manifest mind that could telepathically communicate with the wizard, not the 2nd level spellbook. But then I wondered what is the point of having an "arcane sentience" in the spellbook if it can't communicate. So I'm either over or under role-playing my spellbook.
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=========================== Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters: Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
At level 2, becomes an "awakened spellbook," but what does that mean? Is it as if from an Awaken spell?
Everything about it is detailed in the feature. Aspects of other "awakened" things, like Awaken spells or such are irrelevant.
Does that mean the spellbook can talk?
Since the feature doesn't say it can, no it can't.
Or does it have any other means of communication?
The Manifest Mind feature lets the summon object share what it sees and hears with the Wizard that summoned it. That's it.
Can it communicate with anyone other than the wizard?
Since it doesn't say it can in the features: No, it can't.
And what about the "Manifest Mind" ability. It specifically says it can telepathically communicate with the wizard, but can the manifested mind talk?
Actually, no it doesn'tsay that. It says it can telepathically share what it sees and hears with the wizard. That's all it can do. If it could do more the feature would say so, but it doesn't so it can't.
Does it have any way of communicating with others other than bobbing up and down in a "hey, look at me" manner?
No, and it can't even do that bobbing thing. It only moves the way the Wizard commands it to.
I'm playing a Scribes wizard now, and I had the level 2 "awakened spellbook" able to communicate telepathically with my wizard, which I thought was correct until I reached level 6 and realized that it was the manifest mind that could telepathically communicate with the wizard, not the 2nd level spellbook.
You're still wrong (sorry). It doesn't communicate that way. The spectral mind object just shares what it sees and hears. That's it.
But then I wondered what is the point of having an "arcane sentience" in the spellbook if it can't communicate. So I'm either over or under role-playing my spellbook.
I think you're overestimating what sentience is. A worm is sentient. Doesn't mean it communicates with you. A flea is sentient. Doesn't mean it communicates with you. Sentience is a very broad and generic term. You're confusing it with intelligence, personality and humanity. Just because something is sentient does not mean it must have intelligence, or speech, or understanding of anything or personality. It is not a person and will not think like one. Not even an animal or insect. It has no mental stats - 0 Int, 0 Wis, 0 Cha. It has nothing even remotely resembling a "mind" as we would think of it.
The description of sentience is pure, useless, flavourtext with no rules or mechanical aspects or effects of any kind whatsoever. It is an attempt to provide a lore in-game reason for the specific features detailed. It provides a non-mechanic roleplay suggestion.
It's more like a way to explain that the content of the "book" is no longer bound as ink on paper but rather the content is a manifestation of the sentient book's memory as if the physical book is just a shell - a housing unit - for a mind, and this is why you, with a bond to the "mind" rather than the "book", can summon that content, that mind, into a new book. But this mind is a store of information, rather than one of a person. It's a sentient mind, but not "being", it has no soul, it has no existence beyond serving you in the very specific ways.
Think of these new art-generating AIs. They are "minds", they can "think" up new concepts from your searches and even learn new associations over time but can never be something you communicate with or do anything with beyond what the limitations of its mind (code/programming) allow: generating artistic imagery. Your books new mind is just an AI with a very specific purpose, very specific features and exists for nothing else. It's not a person, it's not made for communication.
Now, that's the mechanical and RAW of it. You can always work with your DM to give it something more than this. For example, maybe until level 6 it cannot see or hear anything but it can telepathically talk to you - so long as you maintain the features as is, for instance: it has no mental stats, it cannot make checks or saves, it's telepathy is only with you, etc. This is pure RP flavour with no mechanical benefit so see if your DM is fine with it. Personally, I'd let you - it seems fun. But it is a DM thing and not the RAW so your mileage may vary, as they say. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I think you're confusing sentience (the ability to experience feelings and sensations) with sapience (the ability to possess wisdom) but that's a very common conflation. At least you don't have to worry about making backup copies of your spell book!
I think you're confusing sentience (the ability to experience feelings and sensations) with sapience (the ability to possess wisdom) but that's a very common conflation. At least you don't have to worry about making backup copies of your spell book!
I guess if the book has the ability to experience feelings and sensations but lacks the ability to communicate or move on its own in any way, shape or form, I don't really see the advantage or point of being able to experience feelings and sensations. Congratulations, you have a magically sentient spellbook that can sense and feel but is basically in a permanent coma for the entirety of its existence.
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=========================== Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters: Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
When you hit level six it can share its experiences and sensations with you. I think flavor wise, a talking spellbook would be fantastic, but RAW, unfortunately, says no way.
If it could talk, you'd have an intelligent spellbook, which I think would be seriously OP especially at early levels. You could do things like, "Look around the corner and report back, Book!" or "Go round the other way and make a distraction!" It'd end up replacing a bunch of spells and basically become a Super Familiar/party member who can't die.
If you've been using it in this way since second level, your DM obviously doesn't have a problem with it, right? As long as they give you the green light, there's nothing stopping you from having a chat with your book.
Well, an intelligent spellbook at level 2 still can't move. You can't have it report on what's around the corner unless you throw the book around the corner.
Maybe cast mage hand and have the hand carry the book? But then the wizard loses the book as a spellcasting focus since they're no longer holding it.
I had the book take a more active role in helping my wizard decide what damage type to change the spell to (if at all) from levels 2 through 5 as a telepathic consultant. I just reached level 6 and was trying to decide, now that it has "manifested" a mouth (it manifests as a "scholar of the past"), if it was limited to just communicating with my wizard or whether it could talk directly to other party members.
Apparently, neither.
When I first read the Order of the Scribes wizard description, the image that popped into my head was a wizard getting into an argument with his own spellbook, and I kinda latched on to that idea. Although that hasn't happened in our game (yet), I guess maybe I was reading too much into the subclass.
(And that image looks VERY familiar, but I can't place it.)
=========================== Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters: Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
I cheated and did a google reverse image search because I was curious. And, to be fair, really not what I expected. 🤣
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I know I'm late to the discussion, but I'd like to add that the flavor text from Tasha's says:
"Among wizards, the Order of Scribes is the most bookish. It takes many forms in different worlds, but its primary mission is the same everywhere: recording magical discoveries so that wizardry can flourish. And while all wizards value spellbooks, a wizard in the Order of Scribes magically awakens their book, turning it into a trusted companion. All wizards study books, but a wizardly scribe talks to theirs!"
So I wonder if RAI it is actually supposed to talk.
I dunno. I have talked to cats and dogs and they didn't talk back (although I swear to all that is fluffy I had some sort of conversation with my cat as we meowed back and forth and suddenly he seemed to get offended by me and wouldn't look at me the rest of the day. Like, dude, what did I say?). I've talked to my computer or videogame and it doesn't talk back. To be fair to those though, it's usually me whining when they're playing up or something's going wrong.
Just because a wizard talks to their spellbook doesn't mean the book talks back.
I agree the flavour of it is suggestive of the concept of a book that communicates, and that is certainly the fun idea which most DMs will go with (including me), but the actual rules as written do not say so.
In short: it's written very poorly with the actual rules not demonstrating the idea presented.
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I agree it's far from conclusive. I feel like this subclass is very interesting conceptually, but the rules seem underdeveloped. It's one of the most wordy subclasses, while being quite ambiguous on some of the core mechanics (just take a look at the threads discussing whether it reduces the cost of copying a spell into the spellbook).
As additional context, I found this video going through the creation process of the Scribes Wizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWbCEnYrQ04 It was definetely intended to be able to talk back, especially after the 6th level ability to manifest the mind.
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I've read a lot of discussions about the Awakened Spellbook's ability to swap damage types of spells, but I'm not here to ask about that.
What about the book itself?
At level 2, becomes an "awakened spellbook," but what does that mean? Is it as if from an Awaken spell? Does that mean the spellbook can talk? Or does it have any other means of communication? Can it communicate with anyone other than the wizard? And what about the "Manifest Mind" ability. It specifically says it can telepathically communicate with the wizard, but can the manifested mind talk? Does it have any way of communicating with others other than bobbing up and down in a "hey, look at me" manner?
I'm playing a Scribes wizard now, and I had the level 2 "awakened spellbook" able to communicate telepathically with my wizard, which I thought was correct until I reached level 6 and realized that it was the manifest mind that could telepathically communicate with the wizard, not the 2nd level spellbook. But then I wondered what is the point of having an "arcane sentience" in the spellbook if it can't communicate. So I'm either over or under role-playing my spellbook.
===========================
Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters:
Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer
Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
At level 2, becomes an "awakened spellbook," but what does that mean? Is it as if from an Awaken spell?
Everything about it is detailed in the feature. Aspects of other "awakened" things, like Awaken spells or such are irrelevant.
Does that mean the spellbook can talk?
Since the feature doesn't say it can, no it can't.
Or does it have any other means of communication?
The Manifest Mind feature lets the summon object share what it sees and hears with the Wizard that summoned it. That's it.
Can it communicate with anyone other than the wizard?
Since it doesn't say it can in the features: No, it can't.
And what about the "Manifest Mind" ability. It specifically says it can telepathically communicate with the wizard, but can the manifested mind talk?
Actually, no it doesn't say that. It says it can telepathically share what it sees and hears with the wizard. That's all it can do. If it could do more the feature would say so, but it doesn't so it can't.
Does it have any way of communicating with others other than bobbing up and down in a "hey, look at me" manner?
No, and it can't even do that bobbing thing. It only moves the way the Wizard commands it to.
I'm playing a Scribes wizard now, and I had the level 2 "awakened spellbook" able to communicate telepathically with my wizard, which I thought was correct until I reached level 6 and realized that it was the manifest mind that could telepathically communicate with the wizard, not the 2nd level spellbook.
You're still wrong (sorry). It doesn't communicate that way. The spectral mind object just shares what it sees and hears. That's it.
But then I wondered what is the point of having an "arcane sentience" in the spellbook if it can't communicate. So I'm either over or under role-playing my spellbook.
I think you're overestimating what sentience is. A worm is sentient. Doesn't mean it communicates with you. A flea is sentient. Doesn't mean it communicates with you. Sentience is a very broad and generic term. You're confusing it with intelligence, personality and humanity. Just because something is sentient does not mean it must have intelligence, or speech, or understanding of anything or personality. It is not a person and will not think like one. Not even an animal or insect. It has no mental stats - 0 Int, 0 Wis, 0 Cha. It has nothing even remotely resembling a "mind" as we would think of it.
The description of sentience is pure, useless, flavourtext with no rules or mechanical aspects or effects of any kind whatsoever. It is an attempt to provide a lore in-game reason for the specific features detailed. It provides a non-mechanic roleplay suggestion.
It's more like a way to explain that the content of the "book" is no longer bound as ink on paper but rather the content is a manifestation of the sentient book's memory as if the physical book is just a shell - a housing unit - for a mind, and this is why you, with a bond to the "mind" rather than the "book", can summon that content, that mind, into a new book. But this mind is a store of information, rather than one of a person. It's a sentient mind, but not "being", it has no soul, it has no existence beyond serving you in the very specific ways.
Think of these new art-generating AIs. They are "minds", they can "think" up new concepts from your searches and even learn new associations over time but can never be something you communicate with or do anything with beyond what the limitations of its mind (code/programming) allow: generating artistic imagery. Your books new mind is just an AI with a very specific purpose, very specific features and exists for nothing else. It's not a person, it's not made for communication.
Now, that's the mechanical and RAW of it. You can always work with your DM to give it something more than this. For example, maybe until level 6 it cannot see or hear anything but it can telepathically talk to you - so long as you maintain the features as is, for instance: it has no mental stats, it cannot make checks or saves, it's telepathy is only with you, etc. This is pure RP flavour with no mechanical benefit so see if your DM is fine with it. Personally, I'd let you - it seems fun. But it is a DM thing and not the RAW so your mileage may vary, as they say. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think you're confusing sentience (the ability to experience feelings and sensations) with sapience (the ability to possess wisdom) but that's a very common conflation. At least you don't have to worry about making backup copies of your spell book!
I guess if the book has the ability to experience feelings and sensations but lacks the ability to communicate or move on its own in any way, shape or form, I don't really see the advantage or point of being able to experience feelings and sensations. Congratulations, you have a magically sentient spellbook that can sense and feel but is basically in a permanent coma for the entirety of its existence.
===========================
Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters:
Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer
Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
When you hit level six it can share its experiences and sensations with you. I think flavor wise, a talking spellbook would be fantastic, but RAW, unfortunately, says no way.
If it could talk, you'd have an intelligent spellbook, which I think would be seriously OP especially at early levels. You could do things like, "Look around the corner and report back, Book!" or "Go round the other way and make a distraction!" It'd end up replacing a bunch of spells and basically become a Super Familiar/party member who can't die.
If you've been using it in this way since second level, your DM obviously doesn't have a problem with it, right? As long as they give you the green light, there's nothing stopping you from having a chat with your book.
Bonus points if you know where this is from:
Well, an intelligent spellbook at level 2 still can't move. You can't have it report on what's around the corner unless you throw the book around the corner.
Maybe cast mage hand and have the hand carry the book? But then the wizard loses the book as a spellcasting focus since they're no longer holding it.
I had the book take a more active role in helping my wizard decide what damage type to change the spell to (if at all) from levels 2 through 5 as a telepathic consultant. I just reached level 6 and was trying to decide, now that it has "manifested" a mouth (it manifests as a "scholar of the past"), if it was limited to just communicating with my wizard or whether it could talk directly to other party members.
Apparently, neither.
When I first read the Order of the Scribes wizard description, the image that popped into my head was a wizard getting into an argument with his own spellbook, and I kinda latched on to that idea. Although that hasn't happened in our game (yet), I guess maybe I was reading too much into the subclass.
(And that image looks VERY familiar, but I can't place it.)
===========================
Laugh at life or life will laugh at you.
Current D&D Characters:
Kromen Flintfist, Hill Dwarf Order of the Scribes Wizard/Armorer Artificer
Eiphrok, Half-Orc Oath of Glory Paladin/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer
It's from
The Care Bears Movie (1995)
_poster.jpg)
I cheated and did a google reverse image search because I was curious. And, to be fair, really not what I expected. 🤣
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
That movie is no joke. 😂 Always had a soft spot for them.
I know I'm late to the discussion, but I'd like to add that the flavor text from Tasha's says:
"Among wizards, the Order of Scribes is the most bookish. It takes many forms in different worlds, but its primary mission is the same everywhere: recording magical discoveries so that wizardry can flourish. And while all wizards value spellbooks, a wizard in the Order of Scribes magically awakens their book, turning it into a trusted companion. All wizards study books, but a wizardly scribe talks to theirs!"
So I wonder if RAI it is actually supposed to talk.
I dunno. I have talked to cats and dogs and they didn't talk back (although I swear to all that is fluffy I had some sort of conversation with my cat as we meowed back and forth and suddenly he seemed to get offended by me and wouldn't look at me the rest of the day. Like, dude, what did I say?). I've talked to my computer or videogame and it doesn't talk back. To be fair to those though, it's usually me whining when they're playing up or something's going wrong.
Just because a wizard talks to their spellbook doesn't mean the book talks back.
I agree the flavour of it is suggestive of the concept of a book that communicates, and that is certainly the fun idea which most DMs will go with (including me), but the actual rules as written do not say so.
In short: it's written very poorly with the actual rules not demonstrating the idea presented.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I agree it's far from conclusive. I feel like this subclass is very interesting conceptually, but the rules seem underdeveloped. It's one of the most wordy subclasses, while being quite ambiguous on some of the core mechanics (just take a look at the threads discussing whether it reduces the cost of copying a spell into the spellbook).
As additional context, I found this video going through the creation process of the Scribes Wizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWbCEnYrQ04
It was definetely intended to be able to talk back, especially after the 6th level ability to manifest the mind.