I’m currently playing Out of the Abyss and as you probably know, madness is an occring theme in that adventure. It’s designed as a condition and I was thinking why it isn’t included in the character condition tracker. Or am I missing something?
because it isn't a condition in and of itself, but a secondary thing. very very very few things call for Madness, so it isn't exactly defined mechanically.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I'd also like to see short-term, long-term and indefinite madness included as a condition, or else for there to be an ability to create a condition. That could cover madness, as well as confusion and other effects.
Well the rules for madness are found both in the Out of the Abyss adventure and in DMG in the chapter “running the adventure”. I would say that it is mechanically defined, but for some reason it isn’t listed as a condition.
because it isn't a condition, it's just a thing that the DM can use by using a table. That's like saying that the bonds/ideals/flaws all have mechanical benefits just because they have tables for them.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Many of the forms of madness do have mechanics, as do many other conditions/diseases. It's useful to have these things noted, sharable and easily understood on character sheets, especially In These Quarantimes.
I myself want to see more forms of flaws with mechanics, and effects with mechanics that can be noted on a character sheet. It's especially useful when you want to pick up a game after a long absence and need a bit of a reminder of what your character's state was. Also it's an easy way to share ideas for character limitations and problems between the DM and players when they're developing a campaign together. Especially for people who really like the intense stuff. DMs in particular can benefit when they have recurring NPCs who are suffering some form of madness. It can be a lot to keep track of, but including can definitely make a game richer.
I think the best workaround for this is by creating a feat, which you can add, or instruct players to add, by going to the bottom of the features and traits tab of the finished character sheet. You could potentially use feats for diseases and any number of other flaws with mechanics, though it still wouldn't be listed as a condition. Maybe in some instances you can use a condition as a proxy for madness, like "charmed"?
DevanAvalon, if you just want your DM to use the madness tables in the books and not include/use it as a condition, or include any mechanics of madness effects in the character sheet, that's still a totally fine and normal way to play.
The reason they're not listed in the conditions isn't due to mechanical definition, but due to them not being Conditions.
However, support for optional rules such as Madness and Honour is on the long term roadmap.
Yep, this. Thank you for articulating what I clearly failed, Dave.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
@Davedamon - sounds great. Coming back to AotA adventure, as madness is set up it grows graudally and you need to keep track och how many times you've failed it before you go into a different state of madness e t c. It's that tracking over time that would be so helpful to have on the character sheet - just as you track "Exhaustion" today.
@Davedamon - sounds great. Coming back to AotA adventure, as madness is set up it grows graudally and you need to keep track och how many times you've failed it before you go into a different state of madness e t c. It's that tracking over time that would be so helpful to have on the character sheet - just as you track "Exhaustion" today.
If only there were a notes section of the character sheet where you could track all the stuff that doesn't have its own field.
There is! It’s located in the area where you can select attacks, a tion, spells e t c. Sorry for not providing a screenshot butIthink you can find it. It’s not that hard.
There is! It’s located in the area where you can select attacks, a tion, spells e t c. Sorry for not providing a screenshot butIthink you can find it. It’s not that hard.
That's great. You can just track madness there then. Problem solved until they add a system specifically for this optional rule.
There is! It’s located in the area where you can select attacks, a tion, spells e t c. Sorry for not providing a screenshot butIthink you can find it. It’s not that hard.
That's great. You can just track madness there then. Problem solved until they add a system specifically for this optional rule.
I’m currently playing Out of the Abyss and as you probably know, madness is an occring theme in that adventure. It’s designed as a condition and I was thinking why it isn’t included in the character condition tracker. Or am I missing something?
because it isn't a condition in and of itself, but a secondary thing. very very very few things call for Madness, so it isn't exactly defined mechanically.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
The general features system will probably handle this.
I'd also like to see short-term, long-term and indefinite madness included as a condition, or else for there to be an ability to create a condition. That could cover madness, as well as confusion and other effects.
Madness would be crucial for a Call of Cthulhu inspired campaign.
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Well the rules for madness are found both in the Out of the Abyss adventure and in DMG in the chapter “running the adventure”. I would say that it is mechanically defined, but for some reason it isn’t listed as a condition.
because it isn't a condition, it's just a thing that the DM can use by using a table. That's like saying that the bonds/ideals/flaws all have mechanical benefits just because they have tables for them.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Many of the forms of madness do have mechanics, as do many other conditions/diseases. It's useful to have these things noted, sharable and easily understood on character sheets, especially In These Quarantimes.
I myself want to see more forms of flaws with mechanics, and effects with mechanics that can be noted on a character sheet. It's especially useful when you want to pick up a game after a long absence and need a bit of a reminder of what your character's state was. Also it's an easy way to share ideas for character limitations and problems between the DM and players when they're developing a campaign together. Especially for people who really like the intense stuff. DMs in particular can benefit when they have recurring NPCs who are suffering some form of madness. It can be a lot to keep track of, but including can definitely make a game richer.
I think the best workaround for this is by creating a feat, which you can add, or instruct players to add, by going to the bottom of the features and traits tab of the finished character sheet. You could potentially use feats for diseases and any number of other flaws with mechanics, though it still wouldn't be listed as a condition. Maybe in some instances you can use a condition as a proxy for madness, like "charmed"?
DevanAvalon, if you just want your DM to use the madness tables in the books and not include/use it as a condition, or include any mechanics of madness effects in the character sheet, that's still a totally fine and normal way to play.
DevanAvalons point is that Conditions are a strictly defined rules concept, as defined here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#AppendixAConditions. Neither Madness and Honour, both optional rules from the Dungeon Master's Guide, nor Surprised are actual conditions even though they function in a similar way.
The reason they're not listed in the conditions isn't due to mechanical definition, but due to them not being Conditions.
However, support for optional rules such as Madness and Honour is on the long term roadmap.
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Yep, this. Thank you for articulating what I clearly failed, Dave.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
@Davedamon - sounds great. Coming back to AotA adventure, as madness is set up it grows graudally and you need to keep track och how many times you've failed it before you go into a different state of madness e t c. It's that tracking over time that would be so helpful to have on the character sheet - just as you track "Exhaustion" today.
If only there were a notes section of the character sheet where you could track all the stuff that doesn't have its own field.
There is! It’s located in the area where you can select attacks, a tion, spells e t c. Sorry for not providing a screenshot butIthink you can find it. It’s not that hard.
That's great. You can just track madness there then. Problem solved until they add a system specifically for this optional rule.
🤣
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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