Tried to install it via Crossover - Its failing under win10 x64 and win 11 Sigil is failing to install on Mac via Crossover due to Microsoft edge dependency missing. Why in the world is it requiring edge? (edge currently will install with crossover but not run)
Was excited to see it was public now. Then I saw it was Windows only. I mean, I know WotC is based in the Seattle area... home of Microsoft, but seriously?
I'm not familiar with Webview... but if this is the main driver that keeps it from running on a VM, then what are the alternatives to Webview that they should be using?
Tried to install it via Crossover - Its failing under win10 x64 and win 11 Sigil is failing to install on Mac via Crossover due to Microsoft edge dependency missing. Why in the world is it requiring edge? (edge currently will install with crossover but not run)
Was excited to see it was public now. Then I saw it was Windows only. I mean, I know WotC is based in the Seattle area... home of Microsoft, but seriously?
I'm not familiar with Webview... but if this is the main driver that keeps it from running on a VM, then what are the alternatives to Webview that they should be using?
It's Webview2 @CaptainLunaSea, similar in concept to Electron as a way of shipping 'web' technologies as a native application, the style used by Teams, Slack, etc. It's preferred by a lot of .NET developers who are already in the Windows space.
As for the question Lalato1, Microsoft initially said they would support macOS and Linux with Webview2, but that support and item on the roadmap was dropped.
The disappointing thing is, they could have used a cross-platform solution for this which multiple tables could use, but choosing Webview2 as the framework of choice (even if it's just for the launcher!) means that even if your table has one macOS, ChromeOS, or Linux user, it's a non-starter.
The actual toolkit behind it seems to be something that could be made cross-platform, but why they chose this particular framework for the very first bit of Sigil is baffling to me. It's a quick win, which is the only reason why (with my software hat on) I could see it be chosen as a POC.
The problem with Proof-of-Concept builds is they frequently have the '-POC' suffix quietly deleted, and find themselves in production while the developers are still complaining that there are myriad bugs to fix. Meanwhile, those in the chain above the actual developers are having their 'Champagne at 90% celebration' of a successful launch.
Also, I would like to be on record as saying I hope I'm wrong about this. Empty "promises" of multiple platforms or 'wanting to get it on many devices' aren't a currency worth trading, and I've seen enough software development to know that writing yourself into a corner from the start is a much harder problem to unpick than doing it correctly the first time.
I would dearly like to be incorrect and for the full release to have dropped Webview2, but until I see it, I will stick with existing, cross-platform solutions...
Dumb question from a non computer guy -- I have a Mac and on a lark downloaded Sigil just to see what it would tell me, and I got the message that it requires Parallels to run on my machine. BUUUUT....Parallels costs a nice bit of money and I don't want to even go down that road only to find out that I need Parallels AND a Windows 11 license.
So, question: does anyone know if Sigil will run on my Mac with just Parallels installed, or would I also need Windows 11?
Dumb question from a non computer guy -- I have a Mac and on a lark downloaded Sigil just to see what it would tell me, and I got the message that it requires Parallels to run on my machine. BUUUUT....Parallels costs a nice bit of money and I don't want to even go down that road only to find out that I need Parallels AND a Windows 11 license.
So, question: does anyone know if Sigil will run on my Mac with just Parallels installed, or would I also need Windows 11?
You'll need windows 11. Parallels works by running Windows itself within MacOS, so you need to have a Windows install. (I believe it specifically needs to be windows for ARM processors, but I'm not up on the details of how MS distributes Windows to say if or how you can get it.) I'd expect it would work, but I cannot prove it. I'd also expect VMware Fusion to work, and that appears to have a free license for personal use. But you'd still need windows 11 (probably for ARM).
The methods people have been trying and failing with so far involve software that sits in between MacOS and the program, and tries to pretend to be windows to the program.
Was excited to see it was public now. Then I saw it was Windows only. I mean, I know WotC is based in the Seattle area... home of Microsoft, but seriously?
Senior management for the project is from Microsoft. I expect they brought some biases with them when they jumped across the street, and didn't think about this enough. While there is a case to be made for standalone cRPG gaming to be a PC-only product, that is because they are single-user products. D&D is collaborative. DMs can not expect the entire party to be PC only. If one player uses a mac, the entire campaign is not going to be on Sigil. This is a miss.
D&D beyond should have seen this coming. You can share core rulebooks with players as a DM, because that is the only way it works. If I as a DM can not convince every player to go out and buy a $35 player's handbook (or whatever it costs), I can hardly demand they go out and buy a $1000+- gaming laptop just to play. Jaw dropping!
I made a bit of progress on this last night but lost the will to continue after getting past the first login screen.
Some combination of a Wine prefix, with Edge, the EdgeWebview2Runtime, and changing to Windows 8 as the virtual version, got me to the 'Login' prompt, but after that I get standard black window.
If anyone is curious, here's a launch command that got me some of the way there:
Been a Mac user since 1984 and this seems to be typical - Thanks to all the people trying to get this to work for all of us. Not sure who on the Sigil team is actually doing anything to fix this issue, but it's nice to see some people are trying even if they aren't on the payroll. I guess we'll just have to wait it out and hope and pray to the Gaming Gods that someone might notice that a segment of players aren't using Sigil because they can't. I for one am not buying another computer, I spend far too much on gaming stuff as it is.
I have a mac mini m4 base model. Created "bottle" for an unlisted app, and a black screen just pops up. Never finishes installing. I am new to this, so I am just thinking it doesn't work.
Given they just fired about 90% of the devs working on Sigil (now only keeping I believe 3 devs) I wouldn't hold my breath on many updates/changes to Sigil.
As others have pointed out, the recent news of the VTT team being cut back severely, coupled with the lackluster launch and the almost muted response on the subject of the VTT by the player-base, means this is very likely to be one of those products which they (the Wizards) keep on life support for a couple of years before quietly retiring during some positivity sandwich moment in the not-too-distant future. It feels a little like this was inevitable, and I wasn't the only person who was hoping that Hasbro/WotC wouldn't pull a Hasbro/WotC on this entire situation, alas.
"Launching" in the way they did, as well as keeping shtum on the supposed support for players who weren't on Windows, was perhaps a big red flag in hindsight. I could spend some time waxing lyrical on the absurdity of this situation, and countering the voices who were angrily saying that 'it's a video game and gamers use Windows' without taking into account the nuance of the position that TTRPG players are in, the exclusionary attitude, and that there will be some overlap with video gaming, but there are also a lot of people who enjoy TTRPGs who have never played Baldur's Gate, Pool of Radiance (1988) or similar. Indeed, I even saw someone using that oft-repeated and misunderstood correlation that bug reports are disproportionately from Linux & macOS users when a game is launched with support for all three major operating systems, as some sort of 'gotcha,' completely ignoring the causation and the minutia of quality over quantity...
Anyway, this feels like another example of Hasbro not really knowing what to do with the D&D branding; they don't seem to appreciate, sometimes, what they've got, and seem to lack the critical thinking required to unpick why Dungeons & Dragons is a successful property, in spite of their own attempts at cheapening and spreading the brand thinner than a layer of Marmite on toast. I thought BG3 might be a watershed moment for this, as Hasbro might have seen how successful the D&D (Forgotten Realms) property can be, when you give a talented and proven studio creative license over a video game, instead, they seem to have taken entirely the wrong lessons from it, and I suspect the next D&D video game will be a grimy mirror of what could have been.
If I could be candid for a moment, in this internet forum where this mini-rant will get buried and forgotten, Hasbro should cut back Dungeons & Dragons as a product to its core strengths. The books (and associated artwork, as well as the copyright they have over layout and production) along with the centralized digital location for creating characters and tracking games (D&D Beyond) are good - not great - products, and should be the focus of the expansion of the game. Is D&D the best TTRPG? Subjective. Is it the most popular? Objectively yes, but trying to squeeze every last penny out of a hobby where people still buy physical books in droves, is bad business practice.
What Hasbro/WotC should spend their time doing is making it as easy as possible for people to use their products, not constantly fighting to put up walls for their player base, a lot of whom will simply go to the alternatives who are more open (other TTRPG producers) or who will simply use copyright-infringing methods of re-claiming the material they've already bought (not naming any places deliberately, because I don't want to trigger some sort of content bot or run afoul of forum rules.) If you make things difficult for your players, it doesn't incentivize them to spend more money, it incentivizes them to find ways around the difficulty. This doesn't necessarily equate to loss of sales, because generally those people will still have bought the physical books, maybe even bought them again on D&D Beyond, but are they going to buy them a third time on Foundry, or Roll20? Probably not. One only has to glance at the browser bookmarks of popular D&D content creators on YouTube to recognize this reality.
What do you have, Hasbro?
History, legacy
Recognizable properties
Dense background lore and materials
A cottage-industry of content creators, evangelists
Physical books people aspire to own and display
A digital presence which provides for an entry-point to players, lowering the barrier to entry
A userbase
You're not starting from nothing.
I sometimes think you do see this, or someone in management can see it, when books from third parties make their way to D&D Beyond, this is a game-theory display of growth that builds the catalogue you have yourselves, but also encourages others in the cottage industry to try their hardest to produce content, which in turn compliments the userbase and creates more players. It costs you very little, maybe some backend and frontend developer integration time, but ultimately creates a modular product which players appreciate, and which they simply don't have to use when they don't want to. Then you do comparatively silly things like breaking the experience, mid-campaign, for players who haven't transitioned to 5.24e yet. I suspect this is a lack of backlog work allocated to developers, in favor of product managers who want to push "new features" instead of focusing on improving the user experience and fixing bugs.
Maybe, just maybe, you should consider more of the following:
Make your entire back catalogue available on D&D Beyond; place your standard disclaimers about language and changing standards on the front cover, treat your users like adults and not children. You've got a wealth of maps, which I know you've vectorised, stories, characters, and worlds that you're letting languish on DMs Guild for no real reason. Make them part of a tier of subscription on D&D Beyond if you like, masters get access to everything predating 5th edition? Use that legacy!
Give a much steeper discount to digial goods, especially books (especially, especially adventures!) if the user has already bought a physical edition. Use "CD Keys" to track it, this is tried and true, and you're not achieving anything by the paltry 'discount' you give users who buy the physical and digital at the same time. Allow a user to use their physical book's serial as a means to unlock digital content on D&D Beyond, encourage users to your site, grow your userbase with this one quick hack that doctors hate. This will combat the more readily-accessible forms of users 'procuring' digital editions immediately.
Make partner integration more seamless and open. When D&D users either have to use grey mechanisms of loading their content from D&D beyond into Foundry with plugins, or look into easier-but-not-something-I-can-talk-about-openly mechanisms of getting content into it, but players of Pathfinder have an objectively easier time of it, you're only hurting your own brand and making yourselves look like the bad guy in that situation. Create a robust, open API which partners can subscribe to. If someone already owns their content on D&D Beyond, allow them to load it into a Foundry instance for use with their games there (as other publishers do) and don't force people to "buy" their content again. Your actions here don't encourage people to buy your content, they drive people to the other mechanisms I mentioned, and that's a real shame.
Consider combining DMs Guild and D&D Beyond content; there's no real reason to not be more open about allowing your cottage industry to publish their content on D&D Beyond, which would in turn tie into the above opening up of the third parties to apply for (and use) API integration for their own platforms. If you become the single-source of truth for purchased content, all the VTTs would want to partner with you, and integrate, creating more potential for user growth. Create a shared-revenue model for content creators that's similar to the DMs Guild one, allow open voting and conversation on published works, promote collaboration between providers (include a section for artists, cartographers, writers, to showcase their work and advertise their rates?) In short, be better about utilizing the position you have in the market.
Hire the AboveVTT guy... this one seems like a bit of a no-brainer, but it's better than your Maps offering, while not being as full-featured as Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, etc. Just have done with the problem and hire him to bring Maps up to a production release. You don't have to see Maps as competition to other VTTs, we all know that theory of market economics which states that you should aim to build up partners, not win out over competitors. You're a big corporate outfit, you will always be behind the scrappy little guys who want to make something and release it next Thursday. Instead of trying to 'compete' in areas where you will fail, leverage your strengths and be more open to them, when we push each other up, we all rise.
I did not mean for this to become quite so long, I'm just very tired of watching the same mistakes over and over again.
I know this is a bit older but I just found out about Sigil and after some tinkering got it to actually run half decently through Whisky.
This might be a bit of a stretch just for this but here is what I did:
I downloaded and installed Sigil on my Windows 11 PC and logged into everything
I copied the following Folders and Files to my Whisky Bottle 2.1 "C:\Program Files\Dungeons and Dragons" 2.2 "C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\DnDLauncher" 2.3 "C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Sandcastle"
I downloaded and installed the Edge WebView 2 Evergreen Bootstrap installer from Microsoft in my Whisky Bottle
I ran the Unreal Engine Prereq. Setup from this path in my Whisky Bottle ("C:\Program Files\Dungeons and Dragons\Engine\Extras\Redist\en-us")
Notes:
I also tried to copy and Install Microsoft Edge through many different Bottle Setting but it would always fail. Don't know if that had anything to do with it working or not.
I don't remember every Bottle Setting or Config I used while trying to install UE Prereq or EdgeWebView2
Hi - found this thread while looking for something else... but wanted to let people know that I am actively working on making Sigil run on macOS and that we have plans to release the macOS version of Sigil to the public. Can't say when but a big chunk of the work is done at this point and it is dealing with some other side things that we need to finish.
Chris Sigil Software Engineer :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Tried to install it via Crossover - Its failing under win10 x64 and win 11
Sigil is failing to install on Mac via Crossover due to Microsoft edge dependency missing. Why in the world is it requiring edge? (edge currently will install with crossover but not run)
0000022c MicrosoftEdgeWebview2Setup.exe
0000023c MicrosoftEdgeUpdate.exe
00000338 MicrosoftEdgeUpdate.exe
00000378 MicrosoftEdgeUpdate.exe
000003f8 MicrosoftEdge_X64_133.0.3065.92.exe
00000400 (D) C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate\Install\{E6203EA3-45A6-452D-B79B-57DCC0013057}\EDGEMITMP_7B25A.tmp\setup.exe
Also failed to install via steam due to edge.
I'll keep trying. @me if you get a working solution.
I didn’t see what you did there.
Also, keep this thread alive so they know we want it and it’s worth porting it!
Was excited to see it was public now. Then I saw it was Windows only. I mean, I know WotC is based in the Seattle area... home of Microsoft, but seriously?
I'm not familiar with Webview... but if this is the main driver that keeps it from running on a VM, then what are the alternatives to Webview that they should be using?
It's Webview2 @CaptainLunaSea, similar in concept to Electron as a way of shipping 'web' technologies as a native application, the style used by Teams, Slack, etc. It's preferred by a lot of .NET developers who are already in the Windows space.
As for the question Lalato1, Microsoft initially said they would support macOS and Linux with Webview2, but that support and item on the roadmap was dropped.
The disappointing thing is, they could have used a cross-platform solution for this which multiple tables could use, but choosing Webview2 as the framework of choice (even if it's just for the launcher!) means that even if your table has one macOS, ChromeOS, or Linux user, it's a non-starter.
The actual toolkit behind it seems to be something that could be made cross-platform, but why they chose this particular framework for the very first bit of Sigil is baffling to me. It's a quick win, which is the only reason why (with my software hat on) I could see it be chosen as a POC.
The problem with Proof-of-Concept builds is they frequently have the '-POC' suffix quietly deleted, and find themselves in production while the developers are still complaining that there are myriad bugs to fix. Meanwhile, those in the chain above the actual developers are having their 'Champagne at 90% celebration' of a successful launch.
Also, I would like to be on record as saying I hope I'm wrong about this. Empty "promises" of multiple platforms or 'wanting to get it on many devices' aren't a currency worth trading, and I've seen enough software development to know that writing yourself into a corner from the start is a much harder problem to unpick than doing it correctly the first time.
I would dearly like to be incorrect and for the full release to have dropped Webview2, but until I see it, I will stick with existing, cross-platform solutions...
Dumb question from a non computer guy -- I have a Mac and on a lark downloaded Sigil just to see what it would tell me, and I got the message that it requires Parallels to run on my machine. BUUUUT....Parallels costs a nice bit of money and I don't want to even go down that road only to find out that I need Parallels AND a Windows 11 license.
So, question: does anyone know if Sigil will run on my Mac with just Parallels installed, or would I also need Windows 11?
You'll need windows 11. Parallels works by running Windows itself within MacOS, so you need to have a Windows install. (I believe it specifically needs to be windows for ARM processors, but I'm not up on the details of how MS distributes Windows to say if or how you can get it.) I'd expect it would work, but I cannot prove it. I'd also expect VMware Fusion to work, and that appears to have a free license for personal use. But you'd still need windows 11 (probably for ARM).
The methods people have been trying and failing with so far involve software that sits in between MacOS and the program, and tries to pretend to be windows to the program.
Senior management for the project is from Microsoft. I expect they brought some biases with them when they jumped across the street, and didn't think about this enough. While there is a case to be made for standalone cRPG gaming to be a PC-only product, that is because they are single-user products. D&D is collaborative. DMs can not expect the entire party to be PC only. If one player uses a mac, the entire campaign is not going to be on Sigil. This is a miss.
D&D beyond should have seen this coming. You can share core rulebooks with players as a DM, because that is the only way it works. If I as a DM can not convince every player to go out and buy a $35 player's handbook (or whatever it costs), I can hardly demand they go out and buy a $1000+- gaming laptop just to play. Jaw dropping!
I made a bit of progress on this last night but lost the will to continue after getting past the first login screen.
Some combination of a Wine prefix, with Edge, the EdgeWebview2Runtime, and changing to Windows 8 as the virtual version, got me to the 'Login' prompt, but after that I get standard black window.
If anyone is curious, here's a launch command that got me some of the way there:
I might pick this up again when I have time, but for now, I'm tired.
Okee doke, thanks...that is what I figured. Too bad. I will just have to wait for the Mac OS compatible version (which I am sure is coming some day).
Been a Mac user since 1984 and this seems to be typical - Thanks to all the people trying to get this to work for all of us. Not sure who on the Sigil team is actually doing anything to fix this issue, but it's nice to see some people are trying even if they aren't on the payroll. I guess we'll just have to wait it out and hope and pray to the Gaming Gods that someone might notice that a segment of players aren't using Sigil because they can't. I for one am not buying another computer, I spend far too much on gaming stuff as it is.
ook!
Cecil E. Monkey, B.O.W.D
You need windows 11 too. But hold off.
I downloaded and ran in parallels/windows 11. It runs through the menus but when it goes to the 3d model the screen was just green static pixels.
Can confirm issues with using crossover.
I have a mac mini m4 base model. Created "bottle" for an unlisted app, and a black screen just pops up. Never finishes installing. I am new to this, so I am just thinking it doesn't work.
Given recent events I find it likely that a MacOS native version, or any version not for windows, UNlikely
Edited: for a mistype likely to UNlikely
Given they just fired about 90% of the devs working on Sigil (now only keeping I believe 3 devs) I wouldn't hold my breath on many updates/changes to Sigil.
So,
As others have pointed out, the recent news of the VTT team being cut back severely, coupled with the lackluster launch and the almost muted response on the subject of the VTT by the player-base, means this is very likely to be one of those products which they (the Wizards) keep on life support for a couple of years before quietly retiring during some positivity sandwich moment in the not-too-distant future. It feels a little like this was inevitable, and I wasn't the only person who was hoping that Hasbro/WotC wouldn't pull a Hasbro/WotC on this entire situation, alas.
"Launching" in the way they did, as well as keeping shtum on the supposed support for players who weren't on Windows, was perhaps a big red flag in hindsight. I could spend some time waxing lyrical on the absurdity of this situation, and countering the voices who were angrily saying that 'it's a video game and gamers use Windows' without taking into account the nuance of the position that TTRPG players are in, the exclusionary attitude, and that there will be some overlap with video gaming, but there are also a lot of people who enjoy TTRPGs who have never played Baldur's Gate, Pool of Radiance (1988) or similar. Indeed, I even saw someone using that oft-repeated and misunderstood correlation that bug reports are disproportionately from Linux & macOS users when a game is launched with support for all three major operating systems, as some sort of 'gotcha,' completely ignoring the causation and the minutia of quality over quantity...
Anyway, this feels like another example of Hasbro not really knowing what to do with the D&D branding; they don't seem to appreciate, sometimes, what they've got, and seem to lack the critical thinking required to unpick why Dungeons & Dragons is a successful property, in spite of their own attempts at cheapening and spreading the brand thinner than a layer of Marmite on toast. I thought BG3 might be a watershed moment for this, as Hasbro might have seen how successful the D&D (Forgotten Realms) property can be, when you give a talented and proven studio creative license over a video game, instead, they seem to have taken entirely the wrong lessons from it, and I suspect the next D&D video game will be a grimy mirror of what could have been.
If I could be candid for a moment, in this internet forum where this mini-rant will get buried and forgotten, Hasbro should cut back Dungeons & Dragons as a product to its core strengths. The books (and associated artwork, as well as the copyright they have over layout and production) along with the centralized digital location for creating characters and tracking games (D&D Beyond) are good - not great - products, and should be the focus of the expansion of the game. Is D&D the best TTRPG? Subjective. Is it the most popular? Objectively yes, but trying to squeeze every last penny out of a hobby where people still buy physical books in droves, is bad business practice.
What Hasbro/WotC should spend their time doing is making it as easy as possible for people to use their products, not constantly fighting to put up walls for their player base, a lot of whom will simply go to the alternatives who are more open (other TTRPG producers) or who will simply use copyright-infringing methods of re-claiming the material they've already bought (not naming any places deliberately, because I don't want to trigger some sort of content bot or run afoul of forum rules.) If you make things difficult for your players, it doesn't incentivize them to spend more money, it incentivizes them to find ways around the difficulty. This doesn't necessarily equate to loss of sales, because generally those people will still have bought the physical books, maybe even bought them again on D&D Beyond, but are they going to buy them a third time on Foundry, or Roll20? Probably not. One only has to glance at the browser bookmarks of popular D&D content creators on YouTube to recognize this reality.
What do you have, Hasbro?
You're not starting from nothing.
I sometimes think you do see this, or someone in management can see it, when books from third parties make their way to D&D Beyond, this is a game-theory display of growth that builds the catalogue you have yourselves, but also encourages others in the cottage industry to try their hardest to produce content, which in turn compliments the userbase and creates more players. It costs you very little, maybe some backend and frontend developer integration time, but ultimately creates a modular product which players appreciate, and which they simply don't have to use when they don't want to. Then you do comparatively silly things like breaking the experience, mid-campaign, for players who haven't transitioned to 5.24e yet. I suspect this is a lack of backlog work allocated to developers, in favor of product managers who want to push "new features" instead of focusing on improving the user experience and fixing bugs.
Maybe, just maybe, you should consider more of the following:
I did not mean for this to become quite so long, I'm just very tired of watching the same mistakes over and over again.
It might have been long, but it was pitch perfect. No notes.
I know this is a bit older but I just found out about Sigil and after some tinkering got it to actually run half decently through Whisky.
This might be a bit of a stretch just for this but here is what I did:
I downloaded and installed Sigil on my Windows 11 PC and logged into everything
I copied the following Folders and Files to my Whisky Bottle
2.1 "C:\Program Files\Dungeons and Dragons"
2.2 "C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\DnDLauncher"
2.3 "C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Sandcastle"
I downloaded and installed the Edge WebView 2 Evergreen Bootstrap installer from Microsoft in my Whisky Bottle
I ran the Unreal Engine Prereq. Setup from this path in my Whisky Bottle ("C:\Program Files\Dungeons and Dragons\Engine\Extras\Redist\en-us")
Notes:
I also tried to copy and Install Microsoft Edge through many different Bottle Setting but it would always fail. Don't know if that had anything to do with it working or not.
I don't remember every Bottle Setting or Config I used while trying to install UE Prereq or EdgeWebView2
Whisky Bottle Settings:
|| || |Windows-Version|Windows 8.1| |Build-Version|9600| |Retina-Mode|ON| |Sync|M-Sync|
Everything else is turned off.
If anyone can replicate or reiterate on these steps I'd be very thankful :)
It doesn't run too smooth on my M2 Macbook Pro on Low settings but maybe it'll get a bit less demanding soon.
anyone had any luck with this on crossover 25?
Hi - found this thread while looking for something else... but wanted to let people know that I am actively working on making Sigil run on macOS and that we have plans to release the macOS version of Sigil to the public. Can't say when but a big chunk of the work is done at this point and it is dealing with some other side things that we need to finish.
Chris
Sigil Software Engineer :)