Being a D&D fan from late 1980s, I expected more from the Compendium than a web version of SRD (which I can download from Wizards website anyway) and a web interface to Excel-like spreadsheets of spells and items (which almost each DM compiles for himself).
I thought that in 2017 there is enough IA and UX attainments accumulated in the world to develop rich applications that use modern ways of providing information other than 1980s-style Word-like documents and flat Excel-like spreadsheets. :-(
"almost each DM compiles for himself"? That doesn't match to my experience of DMs - next to zero of the ones I've ever known of compile spreadsheets for themselves, and barely more than that ever actually use the stuff compiled by the few that do compiling.
And I dunno what magic SRD download you got, but this site is magnitudes easier for me to open up and get to the material I'm looking for than my PDF of the SRD is.
So yeah, maybe instead of slinging out inaccurate negativity, you could do like Clarinch asks and shows us what you think would be better?
I would recommend reading some of the posts by the mods. The first phase of the beta is to list the content in the SRD to review and have feedback. Essentially, IMO, a proof of concept that what the dev's had created is easily accessible and usable by the community. After the concept is proven to work they will make changes.
The art of Constructive Criticism is to not only provide feedback that helps the Developers in knowing what you think, but also provides in avenue to understanding why you feel that way, and what you would think would work better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. The purpose of 'constructive criticism is to improve the outcome.
Can you link to a website you believe is a good example of what you're talking about?
Any successful online shop (e.g. Amazon) can be an example of how to present information about dozens to thousands items of the same kind (books, gadgets etc.) Imagine what Amazon would look like, if its homepage was a spreadsheet containing several first entries from the full alphabetic list of all goods.
Many documentation tools used by programmers also give good examples of how information can be organized and represented. Or haven’t developers of D&D Beyond seen MDN, or MSDN etc.?
As a web developer myself I'm pretty sure this is leaps and bounds better than a pdf, word, or excel document collection. The main toolset of this web app is still in development for future phases. While i admit that the compendium is simple, the spells,items, and monsters lists are in no way an excel list. I often visit the sites you have linked and personally i don't think their layouts are better for the information being displayed here. Perhaps it's just a style preference but so far I don't think anything you've stated was constructive to the devs and at minimal was nothing more than unwarranted bashing.
I meant not the layout and visual attractiveness, but the functionality and usability for practical needs.
Agreed, the searching is one of the most frustrating pieces. Lack of a unified search (which is addressed as "to be fixed"), but also the break out of each of the individual filters is very tedious to use. A single search box would be vastly quicker for those making use of this frequently.
Example:
search team: undead cr:2
I'd expect live results of the searching, cross content searching, filtering keywords.
I'd also expect that the site would be fully keyboard accessible. Hopefully that comes in time.
As of right now, scraping the data and putting it into Excel is going to lead to vastly better querying abilities. Also, depending on how phase 2 and 3 play out, is likely to custom DM tool authoring much easier as well.
Lets compaire this to the fan powered wiki for D&D. When you look at that, the documentation is far less clean, there are fewer (if any) organization standards, elements of the srd could be wrong or missing, and furthermore, the Wiki will not be supported or updated for 6 months at a time leaving you with a black hole of dead data if you need something new or are looking up a rules check only to find out that a newer version of either one would be (in later phases) on here in 1/4th that time if not less.
Sectional organization of the compendium does in fact need: a bit of pop and art. It is very basic as of right now, some extra oganizers such as visual cues for easy searching would be lovely
Spells: perfect as is. A clean streamlined interface is ideal here as you can sort by any relevant data, then select what you need.
Weapons and Armor: Almost the same as spells, polish is really all that needs right now.
Best of all, mosters are in the same style as the above 2 categories making encounter design a breeze.
People in this thread are complaining bout overly simplistic up and lack of art, but understand this launched not that long ago, and is in beta. Users appeal and love is more important than having an industry standard sight. If we overall like the sorting systems and layout, then let it be. If the community as a whole desires change, then it will get changed.
From the sounds of things, the OPs main complaint is that there is no global search functionality. Which the devs have said is coming in a later phase.
If we overall like the sorting systems and layout, then let it be. If the community as a whole desires change, then it will get changed.
Let me remind of the phrase “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses” that is often attributed to Henry Ford, though there is no evidence he ever said this.
Of course, people like spreadsheet-with-filters interface, because it is simple and clear. But being not professional UX specialists or usability experts, they cannot imagine other interfaces that would be even more handy and effective.
Unfortunately, the developers of D&D Beyond are undoubtedly enthusiastic and worthy persons, but they are not UX specialists or usability experts, too. If they were, they had consider something like this: hmm, we need to represent a collection of items of the same kind (e.g. spells, magic items, monsters etc.), so that users can browse and manipulate them somehow. Let’s look how other developers have already solved similar problems, for example with collections of:
All these tools have something in common, so maybe solutions that proved to be successful in so many fields can be also useful for collections of spells and monsters?
If we overall like the sorting systems and layout, then let it be. If the community as a whole desires change, then it will get changed.
Let me remind of the phrase “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses” that is often attributed to Henry Ford, though there is no evidence he ever said this.
Of course, people like spreadsheet-with-filters interface, because it is simple and clear. But being not professional UX specialists or usability experts, they cannot imagine other interfaces that would be even more handy and effective.
Unfortunately, the developers of D&D Beyond are undoubtedly enthusiastic and worthy persons, but they are not UX specialists or usability experts, too. If they were, they had consider something like this: hmm, we need to represent a collection of items of the same kind (e.g. spells, magic items, monsters etc.), so that users can browse and manipulate them somehow. Let’s look how other developers have already solved similar problems, for example with collections of:
All these tools have something in common, so maybe solutions that proved to be successful in so many fields can be also useful for collections of spells and monsters?
Just speaking from personal preference, something like allrecipes is miserable to me as a user experience. I like being able to visually skim through a compendium of data, and not have to re-orient myself when doing so. Such UI might be considered modern, but that doesn't make it effective. amazon, allrecipes, real-estate are all designed to grab your attention, to sell you a product, half the things are competing against each other for your gaze. That's not useful design when it comes to organizing and searching through an index.
Just speaking from personal preference, something like allrecipes is miserable to me as a user experience. I like being able to visually skim through a compendium of data, and not have to re-orient myself when doing so. Such UI might be considered modern, but that doesn't make it effective. amazon, allrecipes, real-estate are all designed to grab your attention, to sell you a product, half the things are competing against each other for your gaze. That's not useful design when it comes to organizing and searching through an index.
I agree that the layout here on D&D Beyond is not the issue. I think the aesthetics of the site as actually quite good. It's the interaction model with the search UI that I find clunky. I'm hoping that the addition of the global search feature will fix much of that, but currently, the individual filter dropdowns is a very dated model. It has decent usability, but for example, if you want to try and find a spell that provides an AC bonus, how do you do it? When filters are listed out as they are, it brings a heavy cost to the UI and vastly limits the type of content we can search for. The generic "tag" filter isn't a great solution for either as it requires all items to be marked in a certain way that simply doesn't scale well to specific query types.
My hope is that the simple search and the advanced search are simply an interface into the same search mechanism so that we can easily create custom search queries that can be saved and shared.
Here's an example of a modern query engine that I'd love to see D&D Beyond modelled after: https://www.wolframalpha.com/. Google search query refinements are another good example.
Just speaking from personal preference, something like allrecipes is miserable to me as a user experience. I like being able to visually skim through a compendium of data, and not have to re-orient myself when doing so. Such UI might be considered modern, but that doesn't make it effective. amazon, allrecipes, real-estate are all designed to grab your attention, to sell you a product, half the things are competing against each other for your gaze. That's not useful design when it comes to organizing and searching through an index.
I agree that the layout here on D&D Beyond is not the issue. I think the aesthetics of the site as actually quite good. It's the interaction model with the search UI that I find clunky. I'm hoping that the addition of the global search feature will fix much of that, but currently, the individual filter dropdowns is a very dated model. It has decent usability, but for example, if you want to try and find a spell that provides an AC bonus, how do you do it? When filters are listed out as they are, it brings a heavy cost to the UI and vastly limits the type of content we can search for. The generic "tag" filter isn't a great solution for either as it requires all items to be marked in a certain way that simply doesn't scale well to specific query types.
My hope is that the simple search and the advanced search are simply an interface into the same search mechanism so that we can easily create custom search queries that can be saved and shared.
Here's an example of a modern query engine that I'd love to see D&D Beyond modelled after: https://www.wolframalpha.com/. Google search query refinements are another good example.
I agree the advanced search is a little clunky. Would it be improved if Advanced search was an extended series of toggle buttons, like the Class filter, and the VSM buttons? Like a row of buttons 1-9 to filter by level instead of a drop down field?
Being a D&D fan from late 1980s, I expected more from the Compendium than a web version of SRD (which I can download from Wizards website anyway) and a web interface to Excel-like spreadsheets of spells and items (which almost each DM compiles for himself).
I thought that in 2017 there is enough IA and UX attainments accumulated in the world to develop rich applications that use modern ways of providing information other than 1980s-style Word-like documents and flat Excel-like spreadsheets. :-(
I dunno man I mean for what it is it's pretty great. Like yeah it needs global searching and stuff but you know they'll add info to it lol
Just speaking from personal preference, something like allrecipes is miserable to me as a user experience. I like being able to visually skim through a compendium of data, and not have to re-orient myself when doing so. Such UI might be considered modern, but that doesn't make it effective. amazon, allrecipes, real-estate are all designed to grab your attention, to sell you a product, half the things are competing against each other for your gaze. That's not useful design when it comes to organizing and searching through an index.
I agree that the layout here on D&D Beyond is not the issue. I think the aesthetics of the site as actually quite good. It's the interaction model with the search UI that I find clunky. I'm hoping that the addition of the global search feature will fix much of that, but currently, the individual filter dropdowns is a very dated model. It has decent usability, but for example, if you want to try and find a spell that provides an AC bonus, how do you do it? When filters are listed out as they are, it brings a heavy cost to the UI and vastly limits the type of content we can search for. The generic "tag" filter isn't a great solution for either as it requires all items to be marked in a certain way that simply doesn't scale well to specific query types.
My hope is that the simple search and the advanced search are simply an interface into the same search mechanism so that we can easily create custom search queries that can be saved and shared.
Here's an example of a modern query engine that I'd love to see D&D Beyond modelled after: https://www.wolframalpha.com/. Google search query refinements are another good example.
I agree the advanced search is a little clunky. Would it be improved if Advanced search was an extended series of toggle buttons, like the Class filter, and the VSM buttons? Like a row of buttons 1-9 to filter by level instead of a drop down field?
It would be better if each of the filters were text input fields that behaved like the "Save Required" field, but that's only marginally better. The VSM buttons are actually one of the worst parts of the UI as they aren't even tab accessible.
At the very minimum, we need a "full text" search of the spell descriptions as well.
Just speaking from personal preference, something like allrecipes is miserable to me as a user experience. I like being able to visually skim through a compendium of data, and not have to re-orient myself when doing so. Such UI might be considered modern, but that doesn't make it effective. amazon, allrecipes, real-estate are all designed to grab your attention, to sell you a product, half the things are competing against each other for your gaze. That's not useful design when it comes to organizing and searching through an index.
I agree that the layout here on D&D Beyond is not the issue. I think the aesthetics of the site as actually quite good. It's the interaction model with the search UI that I find clunky. I'm hoping that the addition of the global search feature will fix much of that, but currently, the individual filter dropdowns is a very dated model. It has decent usability, but for example, if you want to try and find a spell that provides an AC bonus, how do you do it? When filters are listed out as they are, it brings a heavy cost to the UI and vastly limits the type of content we can search for. The generic "tag" filter isn't a great solution for either as it requires all items to be marked in a certain way that simply doesn't scale well to specific query types.
My hope is that the simple search and the advanced search are simply an interface into the same search mechanism so that we can easily create custom search queries that can be saved and shared.
Here's an example of a modern query engine that I'd love to see D&D Beyond modelled after: https://www.wolframalpha.com/. Google search query refinements are another good example.
I agree the advanced search is a little clunky. Would it be improved if Advanced search was an extended series of toggle buttons, like the Class filter, and the VSM buttons? Like a row of buttons 1-9 to filter by level instead of a drop down field?
It would be better if each of the filters were text input fields that behaved like the "Save Required" field, but that's only marginally better. The VSM buttons are actually one of the worst parts of the UI as they aren't even tab accessible.
At the very minimum, we need a "full text" search of the spell descriptions as well.
So you want a robust search field, rather than a slew of filtering options.
Let's say I'm sitting down to a table with a tablet with DnDBeyond. I want to pull up a list of Wizard and Warlock ritual spells of levels 1 and 5. I'm sure I could enter that type of command into a search field, but on a touch interface, wouldn't a expandable window of toggle-able options be superior?
I'm completely fine with an "Advanced Search" showing each of the filters as they are now (with some improvements in usability). However, I'd like to simply be able to type in that query as well. Google does this: https://www.google.com/advanced_search. You can use the UI to help craft it, or you can simply enter in the search search if you know it.
example: "class:wiz class:sor description:ac"
Especially with text completions on that, text input is vastly quicker for many users.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Can you link to a website you believe is a good example of what you're talking about?
UI experience can be entirely subjective, but I'd love to see a different interface that makes more sense to you!
I hate forum signatures.
"almost each DM compiles for himself"? That doesn't match to my experience of DMs - next to zero of the ones I've ever known of compile spreadsheets for themselves, and barely more than that ever actually use the stuff compiled by the few that do compiling.
And I dunno what magic SRD download you got, but this site is magnitudes easier for me to open up and get to the material I'm looking for than my PDF of the SRD is.
So yeah, maybe instead of slinging out inaccurate negativity, you could do like Clarinch asks and shows us what you think would be better?
I would recommend reading some of the posts by the mods. The first phase of the beta is to list the content in the SRD to review and have feedback. Essentially, IMO, a proof of concept that what the dev's had created is easily accessible and usable by the community. After the concept is proven to work they will make changes.
The art of Constructive Criticism is to not only provide feedback that helps the Developers in knowing what you think, but also provides in avenue to understanding why you feel that way, and what you would think would work better.
Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. The purpose of 'constructive criticism is to improve the outcome.
As a web developer myself I'm pretty sure this is leaps and bounds better than a pdf, word, or excel document collection. The main toolset of this web app is still in development for future phases. While i admit that the compendium is simple, the spells,items, and monsters lists are in no way an excel list. I often visit the sites you have linked and personally i don't think their layouts are better for the information being displayed here. Perhaps it's just a style preference but so far I don't think anything you've stated was constructive to the devs and at minimal was nothing more than unwarranted bashing.
I meant not the layout and visual attractiveness, but the functionality and usability for practical needs.
Hang in there folks - this is not the final product!
Eagerly awaiting!
Lets compaire this to the fan powered wiki for D&D. When you look at that, the documentation is far less clean, there are fewer (if any) organization standards, elements of the srd could be wrong or missing, and furthermore, the Wiki will not be supported or updated for 6 months at a time leaving you with a black hole of dead data if you need something new or are looking up a rules check only to find out that a newer version of either one would be (in later phases) on here in 1/4th that time if not less.
Sectional organization of the compendium does in fact need: a bit of pop and art. It is very basic as of right now, some extra oganizers such as visual cues for easy searching would be lovely
Spells: perfect as is. A clean streamlined interface is ideal here as you can sort by any relevant data, then select what you need.
Weapons and Armor: Almost the same as spells, polish is really all that needs right now.
Best of all, mosters are in the same style as the above 2 categories making encounter design a breeze.
People in this thread are complaining bout overly simplistic up and lack of art, but understand this launched not that long ago, and is in beta. Users appeal and love is more important than having an industry standard sight. If we overall like the sorting systems and layout, then let it be. If the community as a whole desires change, then it will get changed.
From the sounds of things, the OPs main complaint is that there is no global search functionality. Which the devs have said is coming in a later phase.
Site Rules & Guidelines || How to Tooltip || Contact Support || Changelog || Pricing FAQ || Homebrew FAQ
If you have questions/concerns, please Private Message me or another moderator.
Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
I hate forum signatures.
I hate forum signatures.
I hate forum signatures.
What?! No telepathic interface? Given that it is 2017, shouldn't we just have this stuff dumped directly into our brains?
"Whoa! I know THAC0!"
I'm completely fine with an "Advanced Search" showing each of the filters as they are now (with some improvements in usability). However, I'd like to simply be able to type in that query as well. Google does this: https://www.google.com/advanced_search. You can use the UI to help craft it, or you can simply enter in the search search if you know it.
example: "class:wiz class:sor description:ac"
Especially with text completions on that, text input is vastly quicker for many users.