As everyone is saying, this should just be a case of tagging the items, spells as legacy, and having a toggle switch to show/hide them. This will cause significant disruption to people who aren't ready, or don't want to switch.
Given the amount of money that people on this platform have invested over the years, this kind of behaviour is disappointing to say the least.
Completely unacceptable is exactly my sentiment. Especially considering the legacy system is already there to utilise, and other platforms are already offering simple and clean solutions.
Their "solution" of making homebrew versions of the old spells, etc. is laughable, ineffective, and frankly rude. The content is already in there, just flag it as legacy and have a toggle for characters to use old or new! It's not like you can disable the 2024 versions either, so are we expected to go through all the work of homebrewing every spell, only to then have to go through a spell list containing two versions of every spell every time we choose or prepare spells? Ridiculous.
I am a handful of sessions from completing a four year campaign that I've been running on a D&D Beyond Master Tier subscription the entire time. If it weren't for some rough scheduling the last couple months, we would be done already. I am sincerely hoping that we can complete the campaign before this change comes into effect (which I am yet to see a date for, making this increasingly concerning and difficult to prepare for), but either way this will be the end of my subscription.
I have persevered through all of WotC's various travesties over the past few years for the sake of my players and this campaign. I was open to the idea of shifting to the 2024 ruleset for the next campaign, and fully intending to continue with D&D Beyond if we decided to stick with D&D in either form (which was highly likely). But if they insist on disregarding the many ongoing campaigns and their existing players, with no care given to how much time, effort, and money they have already put in, then I have no interest in continuing to support this company, this platform, or their products going forward. The absolute last straw on an already buckling back. Subscription cancelled.
There are a few things that can be considered by this intention that I can see. This seems like theft, honestly no different than somebody coming into our homes and taking the books we paid for without any recourse and compensation.
D&D Beyond and by proxy WOTC is being paid a retainer to keep our content safe and accessible, no different than any corporation paying a company using to house their data on remote physical servers. To my knowledge, I haven't heard of any data retention companies legally telling their customers "We're going to remove access to your old data and put what we want in its place." That would be unacceptable in a standard business practice and it's unacceptable in this case.
This also seems like OGL Scandal 3.0 (4.0?) I'm losing count now. This could conceivably be used to force any user to agree to another terms of service which could bring back into full effect the worst parts of the first OGL debacle where creators, DM's, et.al, no longer own their material and Hasbro-WOTC can claim ownership without recourse.
D&D Beyond, WoTC, Hasbro ... I think you need to step out of your ivory towers, walk among the masses who procure your products, and perhaps listen to them. Because if you thought the OGL walkout was bad, what you're contemplating in removing purchased content (even in digital form) from those who purchased it in the first place, is going to be much worse.
For me it is a given that I will be cancelling my sub...but to have the digital books I paid for removed....WOTC is single handedly destroying the entire model for ANYONE.
Who the heck is going to trust anyone with digital books that can just be altered so fundamentally, or even removed altogether?
I don't understand the idea they're stealing content. They're removing functionality but the content, the books, you still have those.
Most of my purchases were a la carte, and *specifically* for content in the character builder. I did not purchase text in a book, in fact the book content was specifically listed as a seperate option in the store, i.e. the compendium. They are now taking that character builder content away.
I don't understand why you think the rules text is an acceptable substitute for the character builder content I purchased.
Because it’s been badly communicated. Many users don’t see the difference between compendium content and the character creator toolkit - they aren’t going into the compendiums, they’re interacting with the content solely through the toolkit. So when people see that legacy spells will be removed from the character creator, they see that the content they rely on is missing and if a thing was there and now it’s gone, it’s not a great leap to consider it theft. There’s also that up until recently, you could buy content separately and without buying the compendium - what happens to those purchases, if the purchaser wants to keep the version they were using, I don’t know.
It isn’t theft. It’s a change in functionality - which for me breaks the use case for the site, so I’ve cancelled my subscription.
Even if the ToS or EULA states they can change the content of what we've purchased, they shouldn't. There is no way this goes in any positive direction if they insist on forcing change.
Both my entire campaign group and I are brand new to DND, just starting back in February. So we are rather open to the new 2024 ruleset, as we haven't gotten deeply ingrained with 5e yet, but being in the middle of a campaign and now having to worry about entirely rebalancing everything or importing a massive amount of homebrew content seems like a wild oversight by the devs. Whether it be a technical issue or purely to push the new content, not relaying that information earlier seems incompetent at best.
Not particularly worried as I have all the components I need physically to run the campaign without the app, but I will surely be canceling the subscription until we feel like swapping to the new ruleset and even then would look at other alternatives if this is how things are handled. The whole app is purely for convenience, so it seems like a bold decision to make it quite inconvenient for those sticking to 5e.
I don't understand the idea they're stealing content. They're removing functionality but the content, the books, you still have those.
So, here's the thing, while we have the content in the digital books to reference, we don't have them to put on our character sheets. My 2014 Vorpal Sword while i can search for it and reference it from the digital 2014 DMG once the 2024 DMG drops I can no longer have the 2014 one on my sheets and I need to Homebrew the sword to be able to use it if I don't buy the '24 DMG.
When we buy the product we expect to be able to use it, in full on our characters
I honestly didn't think WotC/Hasbro had any feet left to shoot themselves in, and yet here we are.
I already cancelled. We luckily just finished a multi-year campaign. We've decided as a group to move to Pathfinder. I still love D&D, but not this company. Late stage capitalism at its best. Alienating fans, open hostility towards customers, backwards corpo PR BS at every turn... I gave them a second chance after the OGL debacle. Turns out I was a fool.
This certainly isn't the worst thing they've done, but just as with the OGL, they've signalled their intent. They are telling you what kinds of actions they will take absent massive community backlash. Dont think this will be the last time. When a company shows you who they really are, take note. I have no intention of letting this blow over and waiting for the next screw up, even if they walk it back.
It's truly sad that this awful company is the steward of such a well loved game. There's nothing that greed can't ruin.
My point is not "well you can homebrew so it's OK". I have never made this point. My point is only that it isn't going to be "hours and hours" or that you need to update "hundreds" of spells. You don't. That's it. That's my point. I agree it is shit you have to do this at all - which I have said multiple times. Please can people (not just you, multiple people) stop cherry-picking and making assumptions without reading my posts.
If you want to make your copies before the 2024 releases then "homebrewing" is 3 clicks and a name change because you can instant-copy any spell, without needing to change anything other than the name.
In which case, employees of DDB, who get paid to make this a useful tool for people who pay a monthly subscription fee, should do that for us. Or, you know, just make 2014 a toggle-able selection on the character creation tool. Seems like they can't be bothered to do either, or have been expressly told by the people whose whole job is to look out for shareholder interests not to do it.
I agree.
My point isn't about what "should"
My point is a correction that making your own homebrew copies isn't "many hours".
That's it. That's the only point I made.
I'm not on D&D Beyond's side here. I'm just making corrections to misinformation or clarifying expectations.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I don't understand the idea they're stealing content. They're removing functionality but the content, the books, you still have those.
Most of my purchases were a la carte, and *specifically* for content in the character builder. I did not purchase text in a book, in fact the book content was specifically listed as a seperate option in the store, i.e. the compendium. They are now taking that character builder content away.
I don't understand why you think the rules text is an acceptable substitute for the character builder content I purchased.
I don't understand the idea they're stealing content. They're removing functionality but the content, the books, you still have those.
Functionality is part of what was paid for.
Also a fair point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
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As everyone is saying, this should just be a case of tagging the items, spells as legacy, and having a toggle switch to show/hide them. This will cause significant disruption to people who aren't ready, or don't want to switch.
Given the amount of money that people on this platform have invested over the years, this kind of behaviour is disappointing to say the least.
Completely unacceptable is exactly my sentiment. Especially considering the legacy system is already there to utilise, and other platforms are already offering simple and clean solutions.
Their "solution" of making homebrew versions of the old spells, etc. is laughable, ineffective, and frankly rude. The content is already in there, just flag it as legacy and have a toggle for characters to use old or new! It's not like you can disable the 2024 versions either, so are we expected to go through all the work of homebrewing every spell, only to then have to go through a spell list containing two versions of every spell every time we choose or prepare spells? Ridiculous.
I am a handful of sessions from completing a four year campaign that I've been running on a D&D Beyond Master Tier subscription the entire time. If it weren't for some rough scheduling the last couple months, we would be done already. I am sincerely hoping that we can complete the campaign before this change comes into effect (which I am yet to see a date for, making this increasingly concerning and difficult to prepare for), but either way this will be the end of my subscription.
I have persevered through all of WotC's various travesties over the past few years for the sake of my players and this campaign. I was open to the idea of shifting to the 2024 ruleset for the next campaign, and fully intending to continue with D&D Beyond if we decided to stick with D&D in either form (which was highly likely). But if they insist on disregarding the many ongoing campaigns and their existing players, with no care given to how much time, effort, and money they have already put in, then I have no interest in continuing to support this company, this platform, or their products going forward. The absolute last straw on an already buckling back. Subscription cancelled.
There are a few things that can be considered by this intention that I can see.
This seems like theft, honestly no different than somebody coming into our homes and taking the books we paid for without any recourse and compensation.
D&D Beyond and by proxy WOTC is being paid a retainer to keep our content safe and accessible, no different than any corporation paying a company using to house their data on remote physical servers. To my knowledge, I haven't heard of any data retention companies legally telling their customers "We're going to remove access to your old data and put what we want in its place." That would be unacceptable in a standard business practice and it's unacceptable in this case.
This also seems like OGL Scandal 3.0 (4.0?) I'm losing count now. This could conceivably be used to force any user to agree to another terms of service which could bring back into full effect the worst parts of the first OGL debacle where creators, DM's, et.al, no longer own their material and Hasbro-WOTC can claim ownership without recourse.
D&D Beyond, WoTC, Hasbro ... I think you need to step out of your ivory towers, walk among the masses who procure your products, and perhaps listen to them. Because if you thought the OGL walkout was bad, what you're contemplating in removing purchased content (even in digital form) from those who purchased it in the first place, is going to be much worse.
$743.48 is what I wasted on the digital books on this site. Plus 3 years in subscriptions.
I'm officially 100% out WOTC. F your game. You'll never see another penny from me.
I'm at $1143 here, that's including 89 months of 4.99 Subscription.
I would also like to know this.
For me it is a given that I will be cancelling my sub...but to have the digital books I paid for removed....WOTC is single handedly destroying the entire model for ANYONE.
Who the heck is going to trust anyone with digital books that can just be altered so fundamentally, or even removed altogether?
Just give them the legacy badge. I dont know why this is so hard
Most of my purchases were a la carte, and *specifically* for content in the character builder. I did not purchase text in a book, in fact the book content was specifically listed as a seperate option in the store, i.e. the compendium. They are now taking that character builder content away.
I don't understand why you think the rules text is an acceptable substitute for the character builder content I purchased.
Because it’s been badly communicated. Many users don’t see the difference between compendium content and the character creator toolkit - they aren’t going into the compendiums, they’re interacting with the content solely through the toolkit. So when people see that legacy spells will be removed from the character creator, they see that the content they rely on is missing and if a thing was there and now it’s gone, it’s not a great leap to consider it theft. There’s also that up until recently, you could buy content separately and without buying the compendium - what happens to those purchases, if the purchaser wants to keep the version they were using, I don’t know.
It isn’t theft. It’s a change in functionality - which for me breaks the use case for the site, so I’ve cancelled my subscription.
Even if the ToS or EULA states they can change the content of what we've purchased, they shouldn't. There is no way this goes in any positive direction if they insist on forcing change.
I agree this was a huge mistake for DDB - effectively making the decision to use them as an online platform the wrong one for many people.
This also means that their value for digital books purchased through them is now worse.
I don't like Roll 20 but they just made a great case for why they're better.
Functionality is part of what was paid for.
Both my entire campaign group and I are brand new to DND, just starting back in February. So we are rather open to the new 2024 ruleset, as we haven't gotten deeply ingrained with 5e yet, but being in the middle of a campaign and now having to worry about entirely rebalancing everything or importing a massive amount of homebrew content seems like a wild oversight by the devs. Whether it be a technical issue or purely to push the new content, not relaying that information earlier seems incompetent at best.
Not particularly worried as I have all the components I need physically to run the campaign without the app, but I will surely be canceling the subscription until we feel like swapping to the new ruleset and even then would look at other alternatives if this is how things are handled. The whole app is purely for convenience, so it seems like a bold decision to make it quite inconvenient for those sticking to 5e.
roll20 clearly heard about this - I don't remember ever getting a marketing email from them before but I just got one titled:
"Play D&D the way you want: add both 2014 or 2024 character sheets to games!"
Good on them.
So, here's the thing, while we have the content in the digital books to reference, we don't have them to put on our character sheets.
My 2014 Vorpal Sword while i can search for it and reference it from the digital 2014 DMG once the 2024 DMG drops I can no longer have the 2014 one on my sheets and I need to Homebrew the sword to be able to use it if I don't buy the '24 DMG.
When we buy the product we expect to be able to use it, in full on our characters
I honestly didn't think WotC/Hasbro had any feet left to shoot themselves in, and yet here we are.
I already cancelled. We luckily just finished a multi-year campaign. We've decided as a group to move to Pathfinder. I still love D&D, but not this company. Late stage capitalism at its best. Alienating fans, open hostility towards customers, backwards corpo PR BS at every turn... I gave them a second chance after the OGL debacle. Turns out I was a fool.
This certainly isn't the worst thing they've done, but just as with the OGL, they've signalled their intent. They are telling you what kinds of actions they will take absent massive community backlash. Dont think this will be the last time. When a company shows you who they really are, take note. I have no intention of letting this blow over and waiting for the next screw up, even if they walk it back.
It's truly sad that this awful company is the steward of such a well loved game. There's nothing that greed can't ruin.
It's been fun.
✌️
Okay, this change is total bs, but they didn't change every spell. It is pretty easy to actually find the list of changed spells.
Once again, totally unacceptable on their part, but it isn't 500 spells and over 1000 magic items bad.
Agreed.
And regarding the claim I'm defending WotC, here are the posts that have been missed which show, very clearly, that I'm not.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Link? I've seen lots of disorganized partial lists, but nothing like a formal structured changelog.
Fair point, I forgot about a la carte purchases.
Also a fair point.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.