I don't understand why this is even an issue. In the builder they are all tabs across the top and you can jump around and do them in any order you prefer...
Because it's a lousy experience for any scenario other than walking through the initial creation of the character, and even then, it's terrible for seeing how your changes will effect your character.
I was tweaking my Clr1/Wiz2 last night. I was working with my GM to make some modifications because he just wasn't that fun the first couple of sessions. Things I was doing:
Looking at swapping out the Life domain
Modifying the race
Modifying ability scores
Leveling up to 4 - did I want a Cleric or a Wizard, wasn't sure
Redoing the spell list
All of this, which is legal under normal Adventurer's League rules as well, was very annoying and slow with the builder approach. Also, trying to figure out where a particular proficiency came from requires clicking through all of them and expanding out the "proficiencies" for each tab.
The character sheet re-design screenshots at least addresses the layout of the sheet, but I'm really hoping it doesn't force the builder wizard.
Odd I did the same (Cleric 2 - Tempest Domain, Wizard 2 - War Magic). Found it easy. Way easier than pouring through the various paper resources.
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Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
I don't understand why this is even an issue. In the builder they are all tabs across the top and you can jump around and do them in any order you prefer...
Because it's a lousy experience for any scenario other than walking through the initial creation of the character, and even then, it's terrible for seeing how your changes will effect your character.
I was tweaking my Clr1/Wiz2 last night. I was working with my GM to make some modifications because he just wasn't that fun the first couple of sessions. Things I was doing:
Looking at swapping out the Life domain
Modifying the race
Modifying ability scores
Leveling up to 4 - did I want a Cleric or a Wizard, wasn't sure
Redoing the spell list
All of this, which is legal under normal Adventurer's League rules as well, was very annoying and slow with the builder approach. Also, trying to figure out where a particular proficiency came from requires clicking through all of them and expanding out the "proficiencies" for each tab.
The character sheet re-design screenshots at least addresses the layout of the sheet, but I'm really hoping it doesn't force the builder wizard.
Odd I did the same (Cleric 2 - Tempest Domain, Wizard 2 - War Magic). Found it easy. Way easier than pouring through the various paper resources.
You found clicking around each of the builder tabs and back to the character sheet a good experience?
Example
I want to change my ability scores. Instead of just clicking a single button to from the sheet on or near the ability scores to bring up that editor (or at the very least, jump directly to that builder page), I need to:
Click the builder icon
Click the "Abilities" tab
Click the sheet icon
Is it the end of the world? No, of course not. But it could be streamlined for a far better experience.
I don't understand why this is even an issue. In the builder they are all tabs across the top and you can jump around and do them in any order you prefer...
Because it's a lousy experience for any scenario other than walking through the initial creation of the character, and even then, it's terrible for seeing how your changes will effect your character.
I was tweaking my Clr1/Wiz2 last night. I was working with my GM to make some modifications because he just wasn't that fun the first couple of sessions. Things I was doing:
Looking at swapping out the Life domain
Modifying the race
Modifying ability scores
Leveling up to 4 - did I want a Cleric or a Wizard, wasn't sure
Redoing the spell list
All of this, which is legal under normal Adventurer's League rules as well, was very annoying and slow with the builder approach. Also, trying to figure out where a particular proficiency came from requires clicking through all of them and expanding out the "proficiencies" for each tab.
The character sheet re-design screenshots at least addresses the layout of the sheet, but I'm really hoping it doesn't force the builder wizard.
Odd I did the same (Cleric 2 - Tempest Domain, Wizard 2 - War Magic). Found it easy. Way easier than pouring through the various paper resources.
You found clicking around each of the builder tabs and back to the character sheet a good experience?
Well I'm comparing to pen, paper, and books. Where I'd have various books sprawled about, sticky notes taking me to various spell pages. Change one thing, and then go at it with my eraser and pencil until I saw the full ramifications, etc, and start over again.
Compared to that, I found it easier to make a copy of my existing character (though I do wish they will let us just give us a copy button). Messed around with it, easily add/remove spells etc. Also, I'm not the type that has all the compendiums memorized (if I did maybe my experience would be different). I could have a few side-by-side versions to look at in pretty short order.
I wouldn't go as far as the experience was "good". But certainly better than pen and paper (certainly less time consuming). The five major things you mentioned (for me) happen faster with DnDBeyond than with pen and paper. And usually I miss things (like, oh I got that language from that background, gotta drop that proficiency as a result, etc).
But to each his/her own right?
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Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
I don't understand why this is even an issue. In the builder they are all tabs across the top and you can jump around and do them in any order you prefer...
Because it's a lousy experience for any scenario other than walking through the initial creation of the character, and even then, it's terrible for seeing how your changes will effect your character.
I was tweaking my Clr1/Wiz2 last night. I was working with my GM to make some modifications because he just wasn't that fun the first couple of sessions. Things I was doing:
Looking at swapping out the Life domain
Modifying the race
Modifying ability scores
Leveling up to 4 - did I want a Cleric or a Wizard, wasn't sure
Redoing the spell list
All of this, which is legal under normal Adventurer's League rules as well, was very annoying and slow with the builder approach. Also, trying to figure out where a particular proficiency came from requires clicking through all of them and expanding out the "proficiencies" for each tab.
The character sheet re-design screenshots at least addresses the layout of the sheet, but I'm really hoping it doesn't force the builder wizard.
Odd I did the same (Cleric 2 - Tempest Domain, Wizard 2 - War Magic). Found it easy. Way easier than pouring through the various paper resources.
You found clicking around each of the builder tabs and back to the character sheet a good experience?
I wouldn't go as far as the experience was "good". But certainly better than pen and paper (certainly less time consuming). The five major things you mentioned (for me) happen faster with DnDBeyond than with pen and paper. And usually I miss things (like, oh I got that language from that background, gotta drop that proficiency as a result, etc).
But to each his/her own right?
This makes no sense... you agree the experience could be better, so why are you arguing against improving it? Being better than pen-n-paper is the bare minimum. It is better than that experience, but so?
The point is to make the DDB experience better, not continually look back and say, "well, it's better than how we used to do it, so I guess we're done."
I don't understand why this is even an issue. In the builder they are all tabs across the top and you can jump around and do them in any order you prefer...
Because it's a lousy experience for any scenario other than walking through the initial creation of the character, and even then, it's terrible for seeing how your changes will effect your character.
I was tweaking my Clr1/Wiz2 last night. I was working with my GM to make some modifications because he just wasn't that fun the first couple of sessions. Things I was doing:
Looking at swapping out the Life domain
Modifying the race
Modifying ability scores
Leveling up to 4 - did I want a Cleric or a Wizard, wasn't sure
Redoing the spell list
All of this, which is legal under normal Adventurer's League rules as well, was very annoying and slow with the builder approach. Also, trying to figure out where a particular proficiency came from requires clicking through all of them and expanding out the "proficiencies" for each tab.
The character sheet re-design screenshots at least addresses the layout of the sheet, but I'm really hoping it doesn't force the builder wizard.
Odd I did the same (Cleric 2 - Tempest Domain, Wizard 2 - War Magic). Found it easy. Way easier than pouring through the various paper resources.
You found clicking around each of the builder tabs and back to the character sheet a good experience?
I wouldn't go as far as the experience was "good". But certainly better than pen and paper (certainly less time consuming). The five major things you mentioned (for me) happen faster with DnDBeyond than with pen and paper. And usually I miss things (like, oh I got that language from that background, gotta drop that proficiency as a result, etc).
But to each his/her own right?
This makes no sense... you agree the experience could be better, so why are you arguing against improving it? Being better than pen-n-paper is the bare minimum. It is better than that experience, but so?
The point is to make the DDB experience better, not continually look back and say, "well, it's better than how we used to do it, so I guess we're done."
Truth is I did not intend to disagree with you in the first place. Of course there is always room for improvement in anything. No need to be frustrated at me friend, we are simply expressing different points of view on the same topic. With infinite money and resources everything can be fixed. What I should have said more clearly, is that,
"Yes I think it's good enough compared to the mass list of priorities that the team is working on resolving presently. As a paying subscriber, I'd prefer DnDBeyond put their efforts on replacing other pain points that the toolset has not addressed yet (and is very well aligned to solving)"
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Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
It seems like some in the "existing DDB builder is just fine, why are you complaining" camp think that those of us in the "Can we have a single, editable sheet" camp aren't expressing a valid experience.
Let me make this as clear as I can, step by step:
There is an existing character builder.
Some users find it a great experience.
Some users find it a fine experience.
Some users find it a poor experience.
Some users find it a horrible experience.
Some users from 3, 4, and 5 would like the option of a single, fillable sheet where we can see ALL options at one glance without having to jump around.
Users from group 6 are not asking that such an option replace the builder, but be offered as an alternative. There is NO reason the two cannot coexist.
Some users from groups 2 and 3 are suggesting that users from group 6 want to replace the builder. This is flat out untrue.
Some users form groups 2 and 3 are suggesting that the negative experience of users in groups 3, 4 and 5 are not valid experiences. This is either ignorance, or willful deceit. YOUR experience is not the only valid one, and in this case the experience and desires of group 6 does not in any way infringe upon your experience, or your use of the builder.
ENVARIS: We are not comparing the experience of the builder to using physical books. Your argument is what's known as "a straw man". We are comparing the experience of a tabbed builder to a single digital sheet with pull-down menues and buttons for automating the character building process that would pull the info from the DDB database just like the builder, but with a different UI/UX.
Why do those of you who think the current builder is fine/good/great want to stop those of us who want a single fillable sheet from getting that? It doesn't hurt you in any way.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Truth is I did not intend to disagree with you in the first place. Of course there is always room for improvement in anything. No need to be frustrated at me friend, we are simply expressing different points of view on the same topic. With infinite money and resources everything can be fixed. What I should have said more clearly, is that,
"Yes I think it's good enough compared to the mass list of priorities that the team is working on resolving presently. As a paying subscriber, I'd prefer DnDBeyond put their efforts on replacing other pain points that the toolset has not addressed yet (and is very well aligned to solving)"
Fair enough. We know that they are working on the character sheet now though, so input now is better than later.
I am afraid I might have a (big) part in people having the impression the request was for the fillable, auto-calculating sheet to substitute the current character creator.
I also then corrected my stance when I have been made aware that my initial"outrage" was completely unjustified.
I don't see any problem in having this option added to the current experience, but I also agree that there are probably other priorities the team should focus on (imho).
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
It seems like some in the "existing DDB builder is just fine, why are you complaining" camp think that those of us in the "Can we have a single, editable sheet" camp aren't expressing a valid experience. ... Why do those of you who think the current builder is fine/good/great want to stop those of us who want a single fillable sheet from getting that? It doesn't hurt you in any way.
Well, from my POV, it's not that you aren't expressing a valid experience - you certainly are. You aren't getting what you want out of DDB, and are sharing that displeasure and asking for what you you'd like to see as an alternative. I merely feel that you are barking up the wrong tree here and ultimately, you'll be disappointed. Beyond is in the business of coding and selling a digital solution for 5E content and character creation in the form of a website. I don not expect them to switch gears and produce a completely different product - i.e a PDF character sheet with dropdown options that will auto-calculate and populate for you. I'd suggest two things:
1) Contact WotC and express your desire that they work out a deal with MorePurpleMoreBetter so that he can continue to update and share his sheet. As far as I am aware, it's the only product that does what you want. I agree with you - it's an amazing tool and quicker for the sort of trial and error for character options that owensd is talking about (for example).
2) Rather than lobbying for a different product from DDB, offer concrete suggestions for the improvement of the existing too in it's website-based format, that would make it more useful for you, as well as improvements to the PDF export function which would make that more useful as well. I see this is a much more productive undertaking than arguing for something they don't intend to make (as far as I know, at least).
I am not saying that the builder and sheet is perfect as it is now - far from it. But I also don't believe it's the nightmare to use that some are making it out to be. There is a ton of info that is hidden or hard to find in the current version, things that simply don't work as you'd expect, and things that are super clunky to change and see the effects of the change. Being able to make a copy of an existing character with the click of a button so that you can play around seems to be a no-brainer to me. I expect the new sheet to be a HUGE improvement, and I also expect it too will need further tweaks and upgrades. But, as I said, it seems most productive for all involved to offer suggestions and feedback on what we have, and not waste time asking for something we don't.
Koren, again there has been a misunderstanding. NO WHERE in my post did I say we wanted a PDF. I understand that that is not coming.
What we asked for was a fillable "sheet". That doesn't mean it has to be a PDF, or even downloadable.
Imagine if there was an extra tab added to the existing builder, a final "Character Sheet" tab, if you will. A single web page that shows all of your information as one sheet. Users who wanted to could skip all the builder tabs and go right to the sheet. On that "tab" on that "sheet" they could fill out all the fields as they like, with drop downs for choosing class, sub-class options, etc. Obviously (or so I thought) this is a simplistic view of the idea. We understand this is a lot of work. NO ONE asked for it to be a priority. We just said it would be nice to have.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
@mjsoctober My apologies, you are correct and I think in my head I'm merging this thread with the other one about the PDF export. Something like that - all the options on one page, in dropdown listings may indeed be useful as an option or extra tab. We'll see what the future brings.
It seems like some in the "existing DDB builder is just fine, why are you complaining" camp think that those of us in the "Can we have a single, editable sheet" camp aren't expressing a valid experience.
Let me make this as clear as I can, step by step:
There is an existing character builder.
Some users find it a great experience.
Some users find it a fine experience.
Some users find it a poor experience.
Some users find it a horrible experience.
Some users from 3, 4, and 5 would like the option of a single, fillable sheet where we can see ALL options at one glance without having to jump around.
Users from group 6 are not asking that such an option replace the builder, but be offered as an alternative. There is NO reason the two cannot coexist.
Some users from groups 2 and 3 are suggesting that users from group 6 want to replace the builder. This is flat out untrue.
Some users form groups 2 and 3 are suggesting that the negative experience of users in groups 3, 4 and 5 are not valid experiences. This is either ignorance, or willful deceit. YOUR experience is not the only valid one, and in this case the experience and desires of group 6 does not in any way infringe upon your experience, or your use of the builder.
ENVARIS: We are not comparing the experience of the builder to using physical books. Your argument is what's known as "a straw man". We are comparing the experience of a tabbed builder to a single digital sheet with pull-down menues and buttons for automating the character building process that would pull the info from the DDB database just like the builder, but with a different UI/UX.
Why do those of you who think the current builder is fine/good/great want to stop those of us who want a single fillable sheet from getting that? It doesn't hurt you in any way.
Fair points. I do not think stating my opinion and experience (and yep just mine) was intended to stop anything. Nor do I truly believe I can stop or start anything related with DnDBeyond development. Given we're not even shareholders in the company (some of us are just paying customers which is different). What we say may or may not influence product development direction. Of course as a paying customer, I would want the company to build based on my priorities. And my priorities are just part of the larger collection of voices out there for DnDBeyond to sift through. I've stated support for various other feature requests throughout the forums, and have not provided support for others. As I see it (and again my singular perspective) this feature request is compared against the larger set of requests across all domains of the toolset. So definitely, I broadened the comparison. Was that good or bad... I don't know, I think so.
All each of us can do is add to the larger narrative by speaking up. Saying nothing at all means we have no voice at all in the matter.
If I made it seem that others experiences were invalid. I will happily apologize for that. That was not my intent at all. Where I was going with it was, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?" for this feature request. My initial reaction "meh I don't think so". Others "yes it is for sure". Both valid points of view (and so are the spectrum of views in between and around those).
Only way DnDBeyond can make an informed decision is by seeing where we sit on the spectrum. Feature requests where we all are united about could very well be the "easy wins" from a customer appreciation perspective. Or they ignore us and do what they think makes sense (which as a company they are totally entitled to do).
Honestly, though, no insult or injury was or is intended by myself. After all we are all people who like D&D. That's a community I'm happy to be a part of.
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Envaris, I agree it is not a priority. Frankly, I want an offline app before anything else. ;-)
In the event they do see our pleas, however, it would be "nice to have" in the future.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
For those of you interested in a simple sheet, and who haven't already seen it, there is a selection of form-fillable PDF sheets from the official WotC D&D web site. They won't auto-calculate anything, but at least you can copy and paste from D&D Beyond into the sheet. The download is a ZIP file that contains the basic sheet, 3 page sheet, and some alternate sheets.
At this point it looks like your only decent option is getting all of your books transcribed into a spreadsheet. Distributing such would breach WotC IP, so good luck on the fun of doing that yourself (which I understand is still a legal gray area - funny how you can buy a game, but copyright makes it borderline-unplayable). It's not hard, just a massive time-sink.
Or you can hope for a class action lawsuit against DDB. Since 5e is all about house rules, this tool for building and tracking characters which in no way lets you modify your pregen sheet is likely a form of false advertising. The game dictates that you will not do everything exactly as in the book.
Frankly, I've already wasted hours trying to dig through the 'homebrew' creation system, and it's a hot mess if you want something as simple as "my DM said we can all start with a bonus feat".
After all the hype, if my group actually settles on the 6-ish house rules 5e needs to be a decent game, I'm going to be printing blank sheets, because this tool is useless as anything other than a by-the-book marketing scheme. Shame the people I play with put money into it.
EDIT:
My apologies, it seems there is such an interactive character sheet out there. It's likely against forum rules for me to advise you to buy a different program and join the fan-suppirt community for a third-party program which has successfully held off Game's Workshop's legal team for decades, but it's technically not a 'competing' app because DDB refuses to do the thing we want...?
At this point it looks like your only decent option is getting all of your books transcribed into a spreadsheet. Distributing such would breach WotC IP, so good luck on the fun of doing that yourself (which I understand is still a legal gray area - funny how you can buy a game, but copyright makes it borderline-unplayable). It's not hard, just a massive time-sink.
If you want a basic character sheet with just some autofillable parts then yes, you would need to make that yourself. There's no legal grey area - as long as it is for your personal use you can do this without any legal issue. I also don't understand what you mean by "borderline unplayable" - you don't need auto-fillable anything to play this game, nothing stops you printing a blank sheet and filling in what you need, ya know, the normal pen and paper way. Doesn't take that long either. So I'm mightily confused by your statements, since they don't align with reality.
Or you can hope for a class action lawsuit against DDB. Since 5e is all about house rules, this tool for building and tracking characters which in no way lets you modify your pregen sheet is likely a form of false advertising. The game dictates that you will not do everything exactly as in the book.
D&D Beyond is not an official way to play the game and do not advertise as making entirely homebrew everything style games. They're advertised as an official toolset for playing D&D and offer you precisely that, they are under no obligations of any kind to offer you any homebrew feature or present the tools you specifically want for your specific needs. The game does indeed indicate the DM can houserule everything. They could houserule you no longer use the traditional 6 ability scores and redesign them, or use the optional 7th score of Madness found in the DMG. You'll note that there is no place for this even on the official character sheets so even the official sheets you can get from WotC who made the game can be insufficient for some houseruling. Are you going to sue WotC then? No, because the sheet serves the purpose for the main rules presented and if you want optional rules or houserules you'll need to find some other way to accommodate that on your own. D&D Beyond do offer a character sheet interface (that can be exported into a standard character sheet) for those main rules with plenty of ways to add some homebrew things, albeit not all of them.
Given this and your previous statement you don't seem to have any understanding of how the law works. I would suggest avoiding such references until you learn more.
Also, you can use the character sheet for tracking your character a lot easier and faster than a pen and paper sheet. You can track health easier, spell slots use, magic item charges, and more. You can also track conditions, and you can track items and ammo. All easier and faster than pen and paper. So the sheet offers precisely what is advertise and a ****ton more on top. When everyone long rests, by the time it takes you to erase and full in the HP, I've reset my HP, hit dice, spell slots and per-rest-use features and still have time left over to wait for you and then have to wait as you manually reset everything else.
Frankly, I've already wasted hours trying to dig through the 'homebrew' creation system, and it's a hot mess if you want something as simple as "my DM said we can all start with a bonus feat".
That's a really poor example. On sheet, features and feats section, manage feats, click to add the bonus feat. Done. Don't need editors. Don't need homebrew. You can ad-hoc add feats, custom skills, custom basic items, tool / weapon / armour proficiencies, languages (even made up ones!), and more all right from the character sheet. If something can be customised you can click it and see a link to do so or it has a gear icon you can click. You can even make custom actions and attacks or edit existing ones to have a Note display. There's a lot you can do right from the sheet and they're working to add even more.
Just because you did not take the time to learn how to use the sheet or ask around, doesn't mean the tool is bad. That is on you, not the site.
After all the hype, if my group actually settles on the 6-ish house rules 5e needs to be a decent game, I'm going to be printing blank sheets, because this tool is useless as anything other than a by-the-book marketing scheme. Shame the people I play with put money into it.
Just a reminder: your need of house rules for D&D to be "decent" to you is entirely subjective to you and your games which are not a reflection of the games the vast majority plays. You are perfectly free to play the way you want to have fun, but if you need houserules that's still a "you" thing - there are plenty of people who don't use any houserules or maybe only use one or two. D&D Beyond cannot possibly provide for every houserule, nor can any digital tool set. This is not a failure of this site/product, though, it just means it was not the best to use for your specific individual usage requirements. I guarantee you don't speak for everybody. I love this site and the tools it offers and my game uses a lot of homebrew and yet D&D Beyond has been nothing but an asset.
I can homebrew extras into the sheet fine: I can make new skills, I can create new status effects with a little jerryrigging of feats/items, I can add generic notes, I can do almost everything I need homebrew wise. And the homebrew tools are great. Limited? Yes, but I can appreciate why and there are ways around the limits. As the links in my sig can tell you, I really love using the homebrew tools for making new races, subclasses, items, feats and spells - pages and pages of them, I love it! The easiest to use I have found so far. And if just making a minor edit to something existing like changing Eldritch Blast to fire damage? Copy > Edit one thing and a bit of text > Save = Complete, in under 40 seconds if you know what you're doing.
Can there be a learning curve with the homebrew stuff, yes, but it won't take long to use and get things working the way you want. And there's more utility in this on the way. And if there's something too complicated, sure, you won't get the automagical updating thingies but you can create a item/feat/etc that's just descriptive text in the right place. Still easier than pen and paper.
--
A lot of your ranting here has more to do with you not understanding the sheet than any failure of D&D Beyond. A lot of what you've described you wanted the sheet to do, it actually can. Now, if you just don't like it and prefer something more akin to pen and paper, absolutely fine and dandy - this isn't the toolset for you. But that's more your preference because as somebody using a campaign with completely homebrewed, well, nearly everything - this has been an absolutely godsend for not only playing with official rules but homebrew ones as well. I have tried several digital tool sets and this one has been the best in terms of function, accessibility and easy customisation in my personal experience. So, most of what you claim is baffling to me.
If you would like help for ideas to get around limits and homebrew some things to make the sheet work for you, I'll be happy to help: say you need, and I can see if the sheet can offer it one way or another and you can decide if that is something you want to do. Seems better than ranting about things in a nonsensical fashion (since it can do what you've so far said you wanted it to). That way you can make an informeddecision because you're definitely not doing that, from what I can read in your post.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
5e is the least-complete, least-developed version of D&D thus far. It skates by at every turn on telling you to ask your DM, because there's precious few options and an obvious lack in several areas. Cleric domains and sorcerer bloodlines are just two easy, glaring examples (cool that those are kinda supported, but the point stands). And I can dig up the ad that plays on every episode of Critical Role for you if you really don't think Beyond is advertised as "a way to track your stuff". So the game _is_ house-rules.
Now, I happen to have played another game with a very rabid legal team. You may have heard of Warhammer. I've seen a lot of those shenanigans, and I can tell you that putting a modified form of copyrighted material on your computer is iffy on the legal right to one digital backup of your purchased book. An app that lets you actually build something for a system the app developer doesn't own is in constant legal dancing to avoid infringement, and that's why it's hard to find one. But feel free to tell me about the recent court case that basically threw out all content-owner protections. I'll be happy to write my own phone-app for 5e sheets.
You're sadly mistaken on what I need. I have played without an electronic prop for decades and actually find this one mildly inconvenient. Apparently you never learned pen&paper shortcuts, and this is helpful to you in your vanilla games. It serves some of my group well enough, and my usual player who wants to DM this system would like to reference sheets without passing them across the table. You're right, I have little patience for the learning curve to not be able to code what I want and instead limp through a dozen work-arounds.
I have made spreadsheets that do a layer of automatic calculation for my games before. It's absurdly easy if you're math-inclined. I may well do the same for 5e. I'm flat-out acknowledging that this app will never be what would allow my gaming group to play a game that insists it should be customized.
However, since you seem to take this as a personal challenge, here's a problem to chew on:
5e changed the bonuses to skill checks, but not the DCs. As such, the game sets up the players to fail. A relatively simple fix for the bulk of it is to add half of the player's level to all skill/tool checks, rounded up. This almost works out to fair numbers. Additionally, if players gained one tool proficiency for every point of Int bonus, the hidden set of skills can actually be covered better by the group.
If you can implement those two changes in a way that won't need redone manually, you're through one of the biggest failings of this system.
EDIT:
Oh, sorry, I didn't explain how legal wrangling makes a purchased item borderline-unplayable. It's pretty simple. Let's say you and I play together. You get a new, physical book, and I don't. Pretty much any way you'd show me the cool new option you like is illegal until you walk up to me with the book. Everything else is reproducing protected material without consent. It has been a major hurdle for play-by-post for... decades, now. Man, that makes me feel old.
5e is the least-complete, least-developed version of D&D thus far. It skates by at every turn on telling you to ask your DM, because there's precious few options and an obvious lack in several areas. Cleric domains and sorcerer bloodlines are just two easy, glaring examples (cool that those are kinda supported, but the point stands). And I can dig up the ad that plays on every episode of Critical Role for you if you really don't think Beyond is advertised as "a way to track your stuff". So the game _is_ house-rules.
Now, I happen to have played another game with a very rabid legal team. You may have heard of Warhammer. I've seen a lot of those shenanigans, and I can tell you that putting a modified form of copyrighted material on your computer is iffy on the legal right to one digital backup of your purchased book. An app that lets you actually build something for a system the app developer doesn't own is in constant legal dancing to avoid infringement, and that's why it's hard to find one. But feel free to tell me about the recent court case that basically threw out all content-owner protections. I'll be happy to write my own phone-app for 5e sheets.
You're sadly mistaken on what I need. I have played without an electronic prop for decades and actually find this one mildly inconvenient. Apparently you never learned pen&paper shortcuts, and this is helpful to you in your vanilla games. It serves some of my group well enough, and my usual player who wants to DM this system would like to reference sheets without passing them across the table. You're right, I have little patience for the learning curve to not be able to code what I want and instead limp through a dozen work-arounds.
I have made spreadsheets that do a layer of automatic calculation for my games before. It's absurdly easy if you're math-inclined. I may well do the same for 5e. I'm flat-out acknowledging that this app will never be what would allow my gaming group to play a game that insists it should be cuatomized.
However, since you seem to take this as a personal challenge, here's a problem to chew on:
5e changed the bonuses to skill checks, but not the DCs. As such, the game sets up the players to fail. A relatively simple fix for the bulk of it is to add half of the player's level to all skill/tool checks, rounded up. This almost works out to fair numbers. Additionally, if players gained one tool proficiency for every point of Int bonus, the hidden set of skills can actually be covered better by the group.
If you can implement those two changes in a way that won't need redone manually, you're through one of the biggest failings of this system.
EDIT:
Oh, sorry, I didn't explain how legal wrangling makes a purchased item borderline-unplayable. It's pretty simple. Let's say you and I play together. You get a new, physical book, and I don't. Pretty much any way you'd show me the cool new option you like is illegal until you walk up to me with the book. Everything else is reproducing protected material without consent. It has been a major hurdle for play-by-post for... decades, now. Man, that makes me feel old.
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Is it the end of the world? No, of course not. But it could be streamlined for a far better experience.
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
It seems like some in the "existing DDB builder is just fine, why are you complaining" camp think that those of us in the "Can we have a single, editable sheet" camp aren't expressing a valid experience.
Let me make this as clear as I can, step by step:
ENVARIS: We are not comparing the experience of the builder to using physical books. Your argument is what's known as "a straw man". We are comparing the experience of a tabbed builder to a single digital sheet with pull-down menues and buttons for automating the character building process that would pull the info from the DDB database just like the builder, but with a different UI/UX.
Why do those of you who think the current builder is fine/good/great want to stop those of us who want a single fillable sheet from getting that? It doesn't hurt you in any way.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I am afraid I might have a (big) part in people having the impression the request was for the fillable, auto-calculating sheet to substitute the current character creator.
I also then corrected my stance when I have been made aware that my initial"outrage" was completely unjustified.
I don't see any problem in having this option added to the current experience, but I also agree that there are probably other priorities the team should focus on (imho).
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Koren, again there has been a misunderstanding. NO WHERE in my post did I say we wanted a PDF. I understand that that is not coming.
What we asked for was a fillable "sheet". That doesn't mean it has to be a PDF, or even downloadable.
Imagine if there was an extra tab added to the existing builder, a final "Character Sheet" tab, if you will. A single web page that shows all of your information as one sheet. Users who wanted to could skip all the builder tabs and go right to the sheet. On that "tab" on that "sheet" they could fill out all the fields as they like, with drop downs for choosing class, sub-class options, etc. Obviously (or so I thought) this is a simplistic view of the idea. We understand this is a lot of work. NO ONE asked for it to be a priority. We just said it would be nice to have.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
@mjsoctober My apologies, you are correct and I think in my head I'm merging this thread with the other one about the PDF export. Something like that - all the options on one page, in dropdown listings may indeed be useful as an option or extra tab. We'll see what the future brings.
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Envaris, I agree it is not a priority. Frankly, I want an offline app before anything else. ;-)
In the event they do see our pleas, however, it would be "nice to have" in the future.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Anyone ever find an auto calculating form?
I'd love to throw all the data into a form and let it do all the mathing for me
At this point it looks like your only decent option is getting all of your books transcribed into a spreadsheet. Distributing such would breach WotC IP, so good luck on the fun of doing that yourself (which I understand is still a legal gray area - funny how you can buy a game, but copyright makes it borderline-unplayable). It's not hard, just a massive time-sink.
Or you can hope for a class action lawsuit against DDB. Since 5e is all about house rules, this tool for building and tracking characters which in no way lets you modify your pregen sheet is likely a form of false advertising. The game dictates that you will not do everything exactly as in the book.
Frankly, I've already wasted hours trying to dig through the 'homebrew' creation system, and it's a hot mess if you want something as simple as "my DM said we can all start with a bonus feat".
After all the hype, if my group actually settles on the 6-ish house rules 5e needs to be a decent game, I'm going to be printing blank sheets, because this tool is useless as anything other than a by-the-book marketing scheme. Shame the people I play with put money into it.
EDIT:
My apologies, it seems there is such an interactive character sheet out there. It's likely against forum rules for me to advise you to buy a different program and join the fan-suppirt community for a third-party program which has successfully held off Game's Workshop's legal team for decades, but it's technically not a 'competing' app because DDB refuses to do the thing we want...?
Have fun with Paizo's D&D5e house rules set.
You're in the wrong thread to advertise for the competition, though.
If you want a basic character sheet with just some autofillable parts then yes, you would need to make that yourself. There's no legal grey area - as long as it is for your personal use you can do this without any legal issue. I also don't understand what you mean by "borderline unplayable" - you don't need auto-fillable anything to play this game, nothing stops you printing a blank sheet and filling in what you need, ya know, the normal pen and paper way. Doesn't take that long either. So I'm mightily confused by your statements, since they don't align with reality.
D&D Beyond is not an official way to play the game and do not advertise as making entirely homebrew everything style games. They're advertised as an official toolset for playing D&D and offer you precisely that, they are under no obligations of any kind to offer you any homebrew feature or present the tools you specifically want for your specific needs. The game does indeed indicate the DM can houserule everything. They could houserule you no longer use the traditional 6 ability scores and redesign them, or use the optional 7th score of Madness found in the DMG. You'll note that there is no place for this even on the official character sheets so even the official sheets you can get from WotC who made the game can be insufficient for some houseruling. Are you going to sue WotC then? No, because the sheet serves the purpose for the main rules presented and if you want optional rules or houserules you'll need to find some other way to accommodate that on your own. D&D Beyond do offer a character sheet interface (that can be exported into a standard character sheet) for those main rules with plenty of ways to add some homebrew things, albeit not all of them.
Given this and your previous statement you don't seem to have any understanding of how the law works. I would suggest avoiding such references until you learn more.
Also, you can use the character sheet for tracking your character a lot easier and faster than a pen and paper sheet. You can track health easier, spell slots use, magic item charges, and more. You can also track conditions, and you can track items and ammo. All easier and faster than pen and paper. So the sheet offers precisely what is advertise and a ****ton more on top. When everyone long rests, by the time it takes you to erase and full in the HP, I've reset my HP, hit dice, spell slots and per-rest-use features and still have time left over to wait for you and then have to wait as you manually reset everything else.
That's a really poor example. On sheet, features and feats section, manage feats, click to add the bonus feat. Done. Don't need editors. Don't need homebrew. You can ad-hoc add feats, custom skills, custom basic items, tool / weapon / armour proficiencies, languages (even made up ones!), and more all right from the character sheet. If something can be customised you can click it and see a link to do so or it has a gear icon you can click. You can even make custom actions and attacks or edit existing ones to have a Note display. There's a lot you can do right from the sheet and they're working to add even more.
Just because you did not take the time to learn how to use the sheet or ask around, doesn't mean the tool is bad. That is on you, not the site.
Just a reminder: your need of house rules for D&D to be "decent" to you is entirely subjective to you and your games which are not a reflection of the games the vast majority plays. You are perfectly free to play the way you want to have fun, but if you need houserules that's still a "you" thing - there are plenty of people who don't use any houserules or maybe only use one or two. D&D Beyond cannot possibly provide for every houserule, nor can any digital tool set. This is not a failure of this site/product, though, it just means it was not the best to use for your specific individual usage requirements. I guarantee you don't speak for everybody. I love this site and the tools it offers and my game uses a lot of homebrew and yet D&D Beyond has been nothing but an asset.
I can homebrew extras into the sheet fine: I can make new skills, I can create new status effects with a little jerryrigging of feats/items, I can add generic notes, I can do almost everything I need homebrew wise. And the homebrew tools are great. Limited? Yes, but I can appreciate why and there are ways around the limits. As the links in my sig can tell you, I really love using the homebrew tools for making new races, subclasses, items, feats and spells - pages and pages of them, I love it! The easiest to use I have found so far. And if just making a minor edit to something existing like changing Eldritch Blast to fire damage? Copy > Edit one thing and a bit of text > Save = Complete, in under 40 seconds if you know what you're doing.
Can there be a learning curve with the homebrew stuff, yes, but it won't take long to use and get things working the way you want. And there's more utility in this on the way. And if there's something too complicated, sure, you won't get the automagical updating thingies but you can create a item/feat/etc that's just descriptive text in the right place. Still easier than pen and paper.
--
A lot of your ranting here has more to do with you not understanding the sheet than any failure of D&D Beyond. A lot of what you've described you wanted the sheet to do, it actually can. Now, if you just don't like it and prefer something more akin to pen and paper, absolutely fine and dandy - this isn't the toolset for you. But that's more your preference because as somebody using a campaign with completely homebrewed, well, nearly everything - this has been an absolutely godsend for not only playing with official rules but homebrew ones as well. I have tried several digital tool sets and this one has been the best in terms of function, accessibility and easy customisation in my personal experience. So, most of what you claim is baffling to me.
If you would like help for ideas to get around limits and homebrew some things to make the sheet work for you, I'll be happy to help: say you need, and I can see if the sheet can offer it one way or another and you can decide if that is something you want to do. Seems better than ranting about things in a nonsensical fashion (since it can do what you've so far said you wanted it to). That way you can make an informed decision because you're definitely not doing that, from what I can read in your post.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Reality check:
5e is the least-complete, least-developed version of D&D thus far. It skates by at every turn on telling you to ask your DM, because there's precious few options and an obvious lack in several areas. Cleric domains and sorcerer bloodlines are just two easy, glaring examples (cool that those are kinda supported, but the point stands). And I can dig up the ad that plays on every episode of Critical Role for you if you really don't think Beyond is advertised as "a way to track your stuff". So the game _is_ house-rules.
Now, I happen to have played another game with a very rabid legal team. You may have heard of Warhammer. I've seen a lot of those shenanigans, and I can tell you that putting a modified form of copyrighted material on your computer is iffy on the legal right to one digital backup of your purchased book. An app that lets you actually build something for a system the app developer doesn't own is in constant legal dancing to avoid infringement, and that's why it's hard to find one. But feel free to tell me about the recent court case that basically threw out all content-owner protections. I'll be happy to write my own phone-app for 5e sheets.
You're sadly mistaken on what I need. I have played without an electronic prop for decades and actually find this one mildly inconvenient. Apparently you never learned pen&paper shortcuts, and this is helpful to you in your vanilla games. It serves some of my group well enough, and my usual player who wants to DM this system would like to reference sheets without passing them across the table. You're right, I have little patience for the learning curve to not be able to code what I want and instead limp through a dozen work-arounds.
I have made spreadsheets that do a layer of automatic calculation for my games before. It's absurdly easy if you're math-inclined. I may well do the same for 5e. I'm flat-out acknowledging that this app will never be what would allow my gaming group to play a game that insists it should be customized.
However, since you seem to take this as a personal challenge, here's a problem to chew on:
5e changed the bonuses to skill checks, but not the DCs. As such, the game sets up the players to fail. A relatively simple fix for the bulk of it is to add half of the player's level to all skill/tool checks, rounded up. This almost works out to fair numbers. Additionally, if players gained one tool proficiency for every point of Int bonus, the hidden set of skills can actually be covered better by the group.
If you can implement those two changes in a way that won't need redone manually, you're through one of the biggest failings of this system.
EDIT:
Oh, sorry, I didn't explain how legal wrangling makes a purchased item borderline-unplayable. It's pretty simple. Let's say you and I play together. You get a new, physical book, and I don't. Pretty much any way you'd show me the cool new option you like is illegal until you walk up to me with the book. Everything else is reproducing protected material without consent. It has been a major hurdle for play-by-post for... decades, now. Man, that makes me feel old.
Have fun with Paizo's D&D5e house rules set.
You're in the wrong thread to advertise for the competition, though.
Pathfinder 2.0 is over there 👉🏻
to many stats to track they make it esier you could make life easier and make many that way