A draw is technically not a defeat. Have it such that if he is every slain, the attacker also dies. As they die, they see the opponent also keel over, and a disembodied voice says "Okay, we'll call it a draw!"
To that aspect, give them the Black Knight powers. They don't die if they hit 0hp, they instead lose a limb. Each subsequent hit removes another limb until they have none left. They can't be defeated, but can be rendered a non-threat.
Or turn them into my fav 40k chaos character, if they get killed they posses the body of the thing that killed them slowly turning them into him.
there is a great short story about an imperial factory worker who slowly gets possessed by Lucius, turns out he built the landmine Lucius tripped on and was really proud of his day to day work :). In fact I am considering having a DnD bad guy killed by an npc the party like who slowly turns into the bad guy :)
The Wish spell cannot be cast before level 17 by a player character. I rather assumed that what we were talking about was the player having their character cast a Wish and say "I wish I to never be defeated", and what the DM would do to grant that Wish. I also assumed that the player wanted their character to keep being played past level 17, to be effectively invincible and able to overcome all obstacles if they chose to try. If I granted such a Wish, I know that I'd be bored, the other players would be likely to be bored, and the only one having any fun would be that player, and possibly not even them. Who has fun if they can't be challenged?
This was my basic reasoning as well.
Except.. the OP seemed to indicate that the campaign was over.
If this was something like the "Write your Epilogue" move from Ironsworn, in which, after the character is retired, you write the end of your story, and he says, "The end of my story is that my character never was defeated again and lived victoriously ever after," I'd be OK with that as a DM.
If the player expected to actually go through live play sessions with a character that could never be defeated, that would be a non-starter for me.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
"dad joke, you can not legally change your name to defeated"
"or just at all, your feat can also not be physically, or magically removed"
"the dm just shouldn't be allowed to remove feats from the player, even if they are op like mobile"
The last one is a joke, right? It's a clever play on words if you're messing around with the word "Feet" and "Feat". Obviously a Feet or Feat can be removed physically or magically, but that last actually sounded serious at first.
If your game has Feats, then they cannot lose them.
I like Rodney's feeling of positivity. "It's not losing, it is a learning experience!"
After a session or two of never losing a fight, the PC gains a reputation as a serious badass. For a few sessions more challengers come out of the woodwork to duel the PC. After that, the PC's reputation is such that nobody wants to fight or will run after only exchanging a few blows.
The BBEG knowing the PC can't be beaten will target the family and friends, property and pets of the party.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I sorry Bob that is outside the limits of the wish spell. You can keep it and your character retires and becomes a legend in the next campaign. Or resubmit the wish.
Perhaps make it a successful wish but it has a curse laid into it - "Where there is death, there will always be death".
If the PC is brought to 0 hp, randomly select a liked NPC and have their life force bring the PC back to life.
Alternatively, you can state that something must be defeated, and so each time the character is beaten at anything, they lose a small piece of themselves - a finger, a toe, a nose, and so on - to instead succeed. This would make simple things with no consequence for "being defeated" have a bigger concern for them, even though they know they will succeed, whilst making big things which they would normally be concerned about less of a worry.
Their mission is to complete the campaign before they're nothing but a skull.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral. At spell level nine a wish spell should not be permanent. Wish spell should not be unfair nor break the game.
Hello, at the end of one of my campaigns one of my players wish to never be defeated his exact words were "I wish to never be defeated". I was curious of what other people think would happen if someone where to wish that.
Perhaps you could rule that this player makes his saves ect. for a turn or some other such ruling. As a GM you are under no or little obligation to inform a player that his spell failed. You could introduce a non player character to the group that explains things to the players. At such a time a theoretical discussion of Wish at spell level nine could be defined.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral.
I would argue that a player saying "I wish to never be defeated" kind of started it.
This is what I call a "troll wish." Someone proposed another one, once, along the lines of, "I wish every enemy we will ever face would be destroyed." That's not the exact wording, but it was a wish that all future adventures would have no opponents in them. You might as well say, "I wish I never played D&D again." A player who makes a wish like that is doing one thing and one thing only: Trolling the DM and/or the rest of the table.
Now, as I and a few others have said, if this wish is essentially, "Now that the campaign is over, my character wishes to live happily ever after," as a GM, I have no reason to oppose that. But if the player intends to ever use the character again, making an "I will never be defeated from now on" wish is trolling the table. You know if the GM grants it, then the game is boring or a huge pretzel for the GM who has to try and figure out how to make it not be boring when you can never lose. And if the GM doesn't grant it, you get to complain that the GM "is being a jerk" for not letting you have your wish.
I submit that if the player is going to troll the GM and/or the table, the "Don't be a jerk" rule as a GM is out the window. You don't want the GM to do something you think is "jerky?" There is a simple solution that almost always works: Don't put the GM into a situation where they have to either let you wreck the game, or they have to wreck your fun. That is a lose/lose situation. It is literally trolling, and people who do that shouldn't be upset or surprised at the consequences.
Again, if it's "Now that the campaign is over here is my crazy wish" -- no problem. We don't have to play it out, Joe is going to DM next and it'll be years until we get back to my turn to GM, so I don't have to deal with the consequences. Easy peasy.
But if it's "I am going to make this troll wish and expect you and the rest of the players to live with it in upcoming sessions," then no.
In short: Players who try to break the game don't have a leg to stand on when the GM responds by breaking the PC in return.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral. At spell level nine a wish spell should not be permanent. Wish spell should not be unfair nor break the game.
There's a difference between a wish that is more powerful than the stated options, a wish that is game breaking, and a wish that is trolling. The OPs example is absolutely the last one of those, unless the intent is to set up an out-story and never play the character again. If the player wants to troll, then the DM gets to troll back. That is neutral, at least in the sense of being balanced.
Yup... and this is not just with wishes, If a player is trolling the GM, or the table, there is no expectation of "fair treatment." In fact, there 100% should not be, because trolls will ruin the game for everyone, and a GM who puts up with it is just letting the game be wrecked.
Good GMs do not allow one player to wreck the game for everyone else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral.
I would argue that a player saying "I wish to never be defeated" kind of started it.
This is what I call a "troll wish." Someone proposed another one, once, along the lines of, "I wish every enemy we will ever face would be destroyed." That's not the exact wording, but it was a wish that all future adventures would have no opponents in them. You might as well say, "I wish I never played D&D again." A player who makes a wish like that is doing one thing and one thing only: Trolling the DM and/or the rest of the table.
If this was the exact wording, I'd gladly grant it.... As the party will naturally destroy most of the enemies they would encounter, I'd rule that all enemies engaged in combat would simply become compelled to track and fight the party indefinitely, and would continuously pursue them if the party fled. (this would override any spell effects like turning or dissonant whispers or other similar effects that might force the enemy to flee), and if any of them actually managed to defeat the party, they would immediately die as well.
Might tick off the party cleric/paladin that their turning abilities are now worthless, but hey, you get what you wish for.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral. At spell level nine a wish spell should not be permanent. Wish spell should not be unfair nor break the game.
Making a wish that exceeds the normal limits of the spell and would blatantly break the game if it were granted as asked is being a jerk. A player's actions have consequences: making a wish that exceeds will have repercussions just as surely as deciding that mocking Baphomet to his face would.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yeah, that wasn't the exact wording. I don't remember what thread it was on, but the exact wording was such that at this moment, all future enemies are removed from existence, so that the party need never face any of them. Again, it was like saying, "I don't want to play D&D."
I mean, OK, wish granted... wanna play Champions or Call of Cthulhu or something?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral. At spell level nine a wish spell should not be permanent. Wish spell should not be unfair nor break the game.
Making a wish that exceeds the normal limits of the spell and would blatantly break the game if it were granted as asked is being a jerk. A player's actions have consequences: making a wish that exceeds will have repercussions just as surely as deciding that mocking Baphomet to his face would.
At a time like that maybe you could say in your best Shenron voice that the wish cannot be granted.
there is a great short story about an imperial factory worker who slowly gets possessed by Lucius, turns out he built the landmine Lucius tripped on and was really proud of his day to day work :). In fact I am considering having a DnD bad guy killed by an npc the party like who slowly turns into the bad guy :)
This was my basic reasoning as well.
Except.. the OP seemed to indicate that the campaign was over.
If this was something like the "Write your Epilogue" move from Ironsworn, in which, after the character is retired, you write the end of your story, and he says, "The end of my story is that my character never was defeated again and lived victoriously ever after," I'd be OK with that as a DM.
If the player expected to actually go through live play sessions with a character that could never be defeated, that would be a non-starter for me.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
the dm just shouldn't be allowed to remove feats from the player, even if they are op like mobile
We1rdPenguin45430 has been heard to say:
The last one is a joke, right? It's a clever play on words if you're messing around with the word "Feet" and "Feat". Obviously a Feet or Feat can be removed physically or magically, but that last actually sounded serious at first.
<Insert clever signature here>
Now considering what exactly are OP feet, then watching Portugal, Ronaldo, Ronaldo are OP feet :) lol
If your game has Feats, then they cannot lose them.
I like Rodney's feeling of positivity. "It's not losing, it is a learning experience!"
After a session or two of never losing a fight, the PC gains a reputation as a serious badass. For a few sessions more challengers come out of the woodwork to duel the PC. After that, the PC's reputation is such that nobody wants to fight or will run after only exchanging a few blows.
The BBEG knowing the PC can't be beaten will target the family and friends, property and pets of the party.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I sorry Bob that is outside the limits of the wish spell. You can keep it and your character retires and becomes a legend in the next campaign. Or resubmit the wish.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Perhaps make it a successful wish but it has a curse laid into it - "Where there is death, there will always be death".
If the PC is brought to 0 hp, randomly select a liked NPC and have their life force bring the PC back to life.
Alternatively, you can state that something must be defeated, and so each time the character is beaten at anything, they lose a small piece of themselves - a finger, a toe, a nose, and so on - to instead succeed. This would make simple things with no consequence for "being defeated" have a bigger concern for them, even though they know they will succeed, whilst making big things which they would normally be concerned about less of a worry.
Their mission is to complete the campaign before they're nothing but a skull.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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A lot of you GMing this are being jerks. Most GMs have a number one rule of not being a jerk. The number one rule for a GM is that you are to be neutral. At spell level nine a wish spell should not be permanent. Wish spell should not be unfair nor break the game.
Perhaps you could rule that this player makes his saves ect. for a turn or some other such ruling. As a GM you are under no or little obligation to inform a player that his spell failed. You could introduce a non player character to the group that explains things to the players. At such a time a theoretical discussion of Wish at spell level nine could be defined.
I would argue that a player saying "I wish to never be defeated" kind of started it.
This is what I call a "troll wish." Someone proposed another one, once, along the lines of, "I wish every enemy we will ever face would be destroyed." That's not the exact wording, but it was a wish that all future adventures would have no opponents in them. You might as well say, "I wish I never played D&D again." A player who makes a wish like that is doing one thing and one thing only: Trolling the DM and/or the rest of the table.
Now, as I and a few others have said, if this wish is essentially, "Now that the campaign is over, my character wishes to live happily ever after," as a GM, I have no reason to oppose that. But if the player intends to ever use the character again, making an "I will never be defeated from now on" wish is trolling the table. You know if the GM grants it, then the game is boring or a huge pretzel for the GM who has to try and figure out how to make it not be boring when you can never lose. And if the GM doesn't grant it, you get to complain that the GM "is being a jerk" for not letting you have your wish.
I submit that if the player is going to troll the GM and/or the table, the "Don't be a jerk" rule as a GM is out the window. You don't want the GM to do something you think is "jerky?" There is a simple solution that almost always works: Don't put the GM into a situation where they have to either let you wreck the game, or they have to wreck your fun. That is a lose/lose situation. It is literally trolling, and people who do that shouldn't be upset or surprised at the consequences.
Again, if it's "Now that the campaign is over here is my crazy wish" -- no problem. We don't have to play it out, Joe is going to DM next and it'll be years until we get back to my turn to GM, so I don't have to deal with the consequences. Easy peasy.
But if it's "I am going to make this troll wish and expect you and the rest of the players to live with it in upcoming sessions," then no.
In short: Players who try to break the game don't have a leg to stand on when the GM responds by breaking the PC in return.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
There's a difference between a wish that is more powerful than the stated options, a wish that is game breaking, and a wish that is trolling. The OPs example is absolutely the last one of those, unless the intent is to set up an out-story and never play the character again. If the player wants to troll, then the DM gets to troll back. That is neutral, at least in the sense of being balanced.
Yup... and this is not just with wishes, If a player is trolling the GM, or the table, there is no expectation of "fair treatment." In fact, there 100% should not be, because trolls will ruin the game for everyone, and a GM who puts up with it is just letting the game be wrecked.
Good GMs do not allow one player to wreck the game for everyone else.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If this was the exact wording, I'd gladly grant it.... As the party will naturally destroy most of the enemies they would encounter, I'd rule that all enemies engaged in combat would simply become compelled to track and fight the party indefinitely, and would continuously pursue them if the party fled. (this would override any spell effects like turning or dissonant whispers or other similar effects that might force the enemy to flee), and if any of them actually managed to defeat the party, they would immediately die as well.
Might tick off the party cleric/paladin that their turning abilities are now worthless, but hey, you get what you wish for.
Making a wish that exceeds the normal limits of the spell and would blatantly break the game if it were granted as asked is being a jerk. A player's actions have consequences: making a wish that exceeds will have repercussions just as surely as deciding that mocking Baphomet to his face would.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yeah, that wasn't the exact wording. I don't remember what thread it was on, but the exact wording was such that at this moment, all future enemies are removed from existence, so that the party need never face any of them. Again, it was like saying, "I don't want to play D&D."
I mean, OK, wish granted... wanna play Champions or Call of Cthulhu or something?
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
At a time like that maybe you could say in your best Shenron voice that the wish cannot be granted.
They are never defeated, but it doesn't extend to party members. There is a TPK except him and everyone else at the table rolls new characters.
That seems like it is making the consequence of the player's troll-wish land on everyone BUT the person who made the wish.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I guess it could make for really short combat sessions.
You see 3 Ogres and a Hill Giant, Roll Initiative!
You win!
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale