I'm stuck in a debate currently, and want to get other people's thoughts on this. If you are playing with someone, and they have access to overpowered resources items/spells/race/class/ etc... and no one else has access to these (or other equally overpowered) resources, does it matter if you are unaware and they don't use/abuse the resources? Like say you spend 10 sessions playing with someone, before you happen to see their sheet and find out that they actually have an item that lets them cast a 9th level spell once a day. (you are a party of level >5's) They never used it before, and you have no reason to think they will start using it now. Does it matter that the DM has let them have this item?
I would say yes, you can't unknow an unfair advantage.
This happened in a group I played in where half the group had epic(ridiculous "rolled" stats) and rare items while the rest of the group was point buy with a green. Not all characters were playing at the same time with the same DM's initially. The new DM evened out the character balance.
Would it matter? If I didn't trust the DM's judgment or the other player, maybe. If I did, not at all. I'd be pretty curious about it though, and assume there'd be more to it than I'd know from a glance at someone else's character sheet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Would it matter? If I didn't trust the DM's judgment or the other player, maybe. If I did, not at all. I'd be pretty curious about it though, and assume there'd be more to it than I'd know from a glance at someone else's character sheet.
If this is posted here, it is already being questioned whether or not the OP trusts the DM or player. Maybe it's an item from another campaign that the player can't use. Maybe it's a DM plot device the player is entrusted with. Maybe it wouldn't matter if you didn't know. But, it seems you do know.
Would it matter? If I didn't trust the DM's judgment or the other player, maybe. If I did, not at all. I'd be pretty curious about it though, and assume there'd be more to it than I'd know from a glance at someone else's character sheet.
If this is posted here, it is already being questioned whether or not the OP trusts the DM or player. Maybe it's an item from another campaign that the player can't use. Maybe it's a DM plot device the player is entrusted with. Maybe it wouldn't matter if you didn't know. But, it seems you do know.
OP also said he doesn't have reason to think the other player will start using it. That seems close enough to trust to me. I also said I'd assume there'd be more to this than I'd know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The race/class/etc... is the same basic idea. Like you find out a player is playing with a nonstandard what ever. Examples might be something like a Teifling with acid resistance instead of fire, a homebrew race with stat bonuses that fall outside of what any of the standard races could get (but remain equal in power), a homebrew class/subclass that you mistook for a standard variant.
The item in question is a necklace the can cast a variant of True Polymorph. If the other players aren't made aware of it, they will assume they are playing with a bog standard humanoid character. If they are made aware of it (like if say the character would otherwise be reduced to zero HP, but instead turns into an animal or wardrobe) they will learn that the necklace is used to maintain the player character's humanoid form.
I played in a game where a Wizard was casting healing spells. I wondered what was going on. I found out when I looked. "College of Theugy" I had a devil of a time trying to find out what that was and why they had it. Turns out it's from a very old thing that was in the Unearthed Arcana forum and abandoned. I had to ask the DM. She told me that it was because at the time the character was created, there wasn't a healer. Mine was created long after, and I found out that every single member of the party got something that violated the rules but me.
I played in a game where a Wizard was casting healing spells. I wondered what was going on. I found out when I looked. "College of Theugy" I had a devil of a time trying to find out what that was and why they had it. Turns out it's from a very old thing that was in the Unearthed Arcana forum and abandoned. I had to ask the DM. She told me that it was because at the time the character was created, there wasn't a healer. Mine was created long after, and I found out that every single member of the party got something that violated the rules but me.
Yeah. I don't trust people.
I think this is an important distinction that these aren't rules violations if the DM allowed it. It creates some interesting social implications, but there is no such thing as breaking the rules when the GM/DM allows it.
Back on topic, I wouldn't care. Honestly, it'd make me excited as a player to see what came of it. A lot of high fantasy books/tropes have some character with an EXTREMELY powerful item that maybe they don't know how to use or don't want to use, and D&D really isn't an exception. It creates interesting roleplay dynamics. I'm all about it.
my biggest issue with custom linage, is that it requires you to be a humanoid. I have a character concept i want to do, but it requires a non humanoid PC to work. And yes, it's 10,000% so i can use a specific character name. But it's real hard to get DM's to buy into what on the surface is "totally a joke character" in their serious game.
Mary/Gary Stu'ing is also super weird, like you will get some people who call foul if you make YOU in this fantasy world. And you will get some that don't care till your character just "happens" to have 15+ in all stats, proficiency in everything, knows 90% of all language (even the ones that are class specific), etc... etc... etc...
you can't polymorph into a humanoid, only into a beast. So it's fine if you want to be a person who becomes a beast, but if you want to be a beast who becomes a person..... welp get to grinding you're going to need to be MUCH higher level/ Challenge rating to get access to that spell.
A variant of Fireball that's basically Dancing Lights with a bit more oomph is not on par with a 3rd level spell. A variant of True Polymorph can be equivalent to a 9th level spell or it could be equivalent to a cantrip.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I guess one of the main questions here is -- does the player have this thing because of special treatment by the DM? Is the DM allowing this player something that no other player would be allowed? In that case, then I have a problem with it -- all players must be treated using the same standards.
Now... If the DM would allow *anyone* to have that 9th level item, then OK. But if only Joe the DM's best buddy can have a 9th level item and everyone else gets bupkus, that is not fair.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I played in a game where a Wizard was casting healing spells. I wondered what was going on. I found out when I looked. "College of Theugy" I had a devil of a time trying to find out what that was and why they had it. Turns out it's from a very old thing that was in the Unearthed Arcana forum and abandoned. I had to ask the DM. She told me that it was because at the time the character was created, there wasn't a healer. Mine was created long after, and I found out that every single member of the party got something that violated the rules but me.
Yeah. I don't trust people.
Don't need homebrew. You can heal as a wizard using official content if you allow Eberron. Mark of Healing Halflings add healing spells to any spellcasting class they take.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I guess one of the main questions here is -- does the player have this thing because of special treatment by the DM? Is the DM allowing this player something that no other player would be allowed? In that case, then I have a problem with it -- all players must be treated using the same standards.
Now... If the DM would allow *anyone* to have that 9th level item, then OK. But if only Joe the DM's best buddy can have a 9th level item and everyone else gets bupkus, that is not fair.
Eh. I usually go with rolled stats. If one player gets particularly unlucky with their stat array, throwing in an item or some other benefit just for them may be just the ticket. Same standards and fair aren't always the same thing.
And if this 9th level spell emulating item in practice just makes a non-humanoid appear to be humanoid both visually and in terms of stats, it's pretty much purely aesthetical. Purely aesthetical items aren't powerful, whether they use a 9th level spell to achieve their aesthetic effect or are entirely mundane. This would be the perfect example of there being something to this "artifact" that a quick glance at someone else's character sheet wouldn't reveal. It's like seeing "Holy Avenger" on someone's equipment list without realizing in this case that refers to a wooden replica sword made for a kid's birthday rather than the genuine article.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Let me try it another way. Does it matter if you don't know? Of course not. How can you object to something you don't know? But the moment you do know, it can become a problem. In the example of the Wizard with healing spells, all was well until they cast that first heal. Then I knew something was up. We were in Exandria, and nobody was playing a "Mark of" character of any kind. I commented about how everyone else at the table got something and I didn't. That's because I was the last one to create a character. The DM didn't really have the time to figure out what to give me.
With the character who starts out as a dog, all is well at the start. If I meet them as a dog, and they changed shape into a humanoid, it would raise my eyebrows. I probably wouldn't object at this point, but I would start to wonder. They could shift back and forth freely, but if they were playing something that obviously wasn't a Druid, then it's a problem to me. How were they doing that? Why don't I have something like that?
It's never fair to give one person something and nobody else gets anything equivalent. Even at a Birthday Party, one person gets a bunch of gifts, but everyone else gets to have a party, and there's usually cake and ice cream at least, and maybe other treats as well. Everyone gets something, and it's ok for the Birthday Girl to get more, so long as their siblings get the same treatment on their birthdays.
If you give one character something, overpowered or not, everyone else needs to get something similar. If I am playing a Fighter, and you give the Wizard a scroll of Fireball, it takes a 5th level caster to cast that, so I want a magic item of the same power level. Give me a consumable item with a plus one bonus. Some arrows would do. If they get to scribe it into their spell book, I want a +1 Longsword. If you give someone the ability to Wildshape, that's only a 2nd level ability for Druids, as long as it has the same limitations as the Druid version, I'm ok with having the same item, or some other item that I can use the same number of time per day. I wouldn't have any use for something that only let me turn into a dog, so I'd if there's a number of times per day, I'd need a magic item with charges. If they have no limit to it's use, I'm back to my +1 Longsword again.
Like if say the PC who had the item were to die, the other players couldn't loot the item thus gaining access to the spell effect (san's the limitations the PC had been playing under). But I would think that the DM would approve something of similar power, if another player had a good reason for why they have such an item, and could be trusted to not abuse such a powerful item.
So special in the sense of not allowing other players to use / steal the item.
Not special in the sense that "anyone" can have an artifact level item, that is 99.9999% just an RP prop.
Everyone doesn't have to have the exact same item for it to be fair.
Rather, every player needs to have a unique something, if one player gets to have a unique something. If Joe gets to play an ancient red dragon with full CR 20+ stats, it's not fair that everyone else is playing a level 1 character. If other people get to pick other CR 20+ monsters to play, then they don't have to be ancient red dragons.
And if the DM gave everyone the MM and let them pick any monster they want, and Joe picked Ancient Red Dragon and you freely chose "pixie," you don't get to complain that Joe is OP.
I'm stuck in a debate currently, and want to get other people's thoughts on this. If you are playing with someone, and they have access to overpowered resources items/spells/race/class/ etc... and no one else has access to these (or other equally overpowered) resources, does it matter if you are unaware and they don't use/abuse the resources? Like say you spend 10 sessions playing with someone, before you happen to see their sheet and find out that they actually have an item that lets them cast a 9th level spell once a day. (you are a party of level >5's) They never used it before, and you have no reason to think they will start using it now. Does it matter that the DM has let them have this item?
I would say yes, you can't unknow an unfair advantage.
This happened in a group I played in where half the group had epic(ridiculous "rolled" stats) and rare items while the rest of the group was point buy with a green. Not all characters were playing at the same time with the same DM's initially. The new DM evened out the character balance.
Would it matter? If I didn't trust the DM's judgment or the other player, maybe. If I did, not at all. I'd be pretty curious about it though, and assume there'd be more to it than I'd know from a glance at someone else's character sheet.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
If this is posted here, it is already being questioned whether or not the OP trusts the DM or player. Maybe it's an item from another campaign that the player can't use. Maybe it's a DM plot device the player is entrusted with. Maybe it wouldn't matter if you didn't know. But, it seems you do know.
OP also said he doesn't have reason to think the other player will start using it. That seems close enough to trust to me. I also said I'd assume there'd be more to this than I'd know.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The race/class/etc... is the same basic idea. Like you find out a player is playing with a nonstandard what ever. Examples might be something like a Teifling with acid resistance instead of fire, a homebrew race with stat bonuses that fall outside of what any of the standard races could get (but remain equal in power), a homebrew class/subclass that you mistook for a standard variant.
The item in question is a necklace the can cast a variant of True Polymorph. If the other players aren't made aware of it, they will assume they are playing with a bog standard humanoid character. If they are made aware of it (like if say the character would otherwise be reduced to zero HP, but instead turns into an animal or wardrobe) they will learn that the necklace is used to maintain the player character's humanoid form.
The old dragon human shenanigan? Nvm, I see you posted another thread about True Polymorph.
I played in a game where a Wizard was casting healing spells. I wondered what was going on. I found out when I looked. "College of Theugy" I had a devil of a time trying to find out what that was and why they had it. Turns out it's from a very old thing that was in the Unearthed Arcana forum and abandoned. I had to ask the DM. She told me that it was because at the time the character was created, there wasn't a healer. Mine was created long after, and I found out that every single member of the party got something that violated the rules but me.
Yeah. I don't trust people.
<Insert clever signature here>
I think this is an important distinction that these aren't rules violations if the DM allowed it. It creates some interesting social implications, but there is no such thing as breaking the rules when the GM/DM allows it.
Back on topic, I wouldn't care. Honestly, it'd make me excited as a player to see what came of it. A lot of high fantasy books/tropes have some character with an EXTREMELY powerful item that maybe they don't know how to use or don't want to use, and D&D really isn't an exception. It creates interesting roleplay dynamics. I'm all about it.
my biggest issue with custom linage, is that it requires you to be a humanoid. I have a character concept i want to do, but it requires a non humanoid PC to work. And yes, it's 10,000% so i can use a specific character name. But it's real hard to get DM's to buy into what on the surface is "totally a joke character" in their serious game.
Mary/Gary Stu'ing is also super weird, like you will get some people who call foul if you make YOU in this fantasy world. And you will get some that don't care till your character just "happens" to have 15+ in all stats, proficiency in everything, knows 90% of all language (even the ones that are class specific), etc... etc... etc...
you can't polymorph into a humanoid, only into a beast. So it's fine if you want to be a person who becomes a beast, but if you want to be a beast who becomes a person..... welp get to grinding you're going to need to be MUCH higher level/ Challenge rating to get access to that spell.
A variant of Fireball that's basically Dancing Lights with a bit more oomph is not on par with a 3rd level spell. A variant of True Polymorph can be equivalent to a 9th level spell or it could be equivalent to a cantrip.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I guess one of the main questions here is -- does the player have this thing because of special treatment by the DM? Is the DM allowing this player something that no other player would be allowed? In that case, then I have a problem with it -- all players must be treated using the same standards.
Now... If the DM would allow *anyone* to have that 9th level item, then OK. But if only Joe the DM's best buddy can have a 9th level item and everyone else gets bupkus, that is not fair.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Don't need homebrew. You can heal as a wizard using official content if you allow Eberron. Mark of Healing Halflings add healing spells to any spellcasting class they take.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Eh. I usually go with rolled stats. If one player gets particularly unlucky with their stat array, throwing in an item or some other benefit just for them may be just the ticket. Same standards and fair aren't always the same thing.
And if this 9th level spell emulating item in practice just makes a non-humanoid appear to be humanoid both visually and in terms of stats, it's pretty much purely aesthetical. Purely aesthetical items aren't powerful, whether they use a 9th level spell to achieve their aesthetic effect or are entirely mundane. This would be the perfect example of there being something to this "artifact" that a quick glance at someone else's character sheet wouldn't reveal. It's like seeing "Holy Avenger" on someone's equipment list without realizing in this case that refers to a wooden replica sword made for a kid's birthday rather than the genuine article.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Let me try it another way. Does it matter if you don't know? Of course not. How can you object to something you don't know? But the moment you do know, it can become a problem. In the example of the Wizard with healing spells, all was well until they cast that first heal. Then I knew something was up. We were in Exandria, and nobody was playing a "Mark of" character of any kind. I commented about how everyone else at the table got something and I didn't. That's because I was the last one to create a character. The DM didn't really have the time to figure out what to give me.
With the character who starts out as a dog, all is well at the start. If I meet them as a dog, and they changed shape into a humanoid, it would raise my eyebrows. I probably wouldn't object at this point, but I would start to wonder. They could shift back and forth freely, but if they were playing something that obviously wasn't a Druid, then it's a problem to me. How were they doing that? Why don't I have something like that?
It's never fair to give one person something and nobody else gets anything equivalent. Even at a Birthday Party, one person gets a bunch of gifts, but everyone else gets to have a party, and there's usually cake and ice cream at least, and maybe other treats as well. Everyone gets something, and it's ok for the Birthday Girl to get more, so long as their siblings get the same treatment on their birthdays.
If you give one character something, overpowered or not, everyone else needs to get something similar. If I am playing a Fighter, and you give the Wizard a scroll of Fireball, it takes a 5th level caster to cast that, so I want a magic item of the same power level. Give me a consumable item with a plus one bonus. Some arrows would do. If they get to scribe it into their spell book, I want a +1 Longsword. If you give someone the ability to Wildshape, that's only a 2nd level ability for Druids, as long as it has the same limitations as the Druid version, I'm ok with having the same item, or some other item that I can use the same number of time per day. I wouldn't have any use for something that only let me turn into a dog, so I'd if there's a number of times per day, I'd need a magic item with charges. If they have no limit to it's use, I'm back to my +1 Longsword again.
<Insert clever signature here>
Part special, part not.
Like if say the PC who had the item were to die, the other players couldn't loot the item thus gaining access to the spell effect (san's the limitations the PC had been playing under). But I would think that the DM would approve something of similar power, if another player had a good reason for why they have such an item, and could be trusted to not abuse such a powerful item.
So special in the sense of not allowing other players to use / steal the item.
Not special in the sense that "anyone" can have an artifact level item, that is 99.9999% just an RP prop.
Everyone doesn't have to have the exact same item for it to be fair.
Rather, every player needs to have a unique something, if one player gets to have a unique something. If Joe gets to play an ancient red dragon with full CR 20+ stats, it's not fair that everyone else is playing a level 1 character. If other people get to pick other CR 20+ monsters to play, then they don't have to be ancient red dragons.
And if the DM gave everyone the MM and let them pick any monster they want, and Joe picked Ancient Red Dragon and you freely chose "pixie," you don't get to complain that Joe is OP.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Seems like it's one or the other to me.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].