Agreed. You don’t need a novella. It doesn’t take much to put a little something unique on a character. Although, that doesn’t really tell me anything about the character’s home life, there is not a “significant event” listed, nor the all important “why become an adventurer?” So I would probably add a couple more sentences to that. But the maximum would still be my 15 sentences.
You must hate Peter in Deadpool 2.
Why? He was an NPC, they don’t need backstories.
You take that back. Peter was the crux of the whole movie.
Nobody ever gets any "me-time" in Dennis' games? Nobody ever has a big moment? Nobody has a specific role that allows them to shine? No side quests where one character takes the lead for a session or two?
Is Dennis part of a hive mind? Wait...
I'm 40 years old. I have been playing D&D for almost 30 years and I started back with 2/e, and a little OD&D. I am secretly an illithid on an undercover mission to learn about "games".
Would it matter? I’m 40, have been playing D&D for almost 30 years, and started back w/ 2e (and a little OD&D). And even though I keep showing them how easy it is to make a more detailed backstory in as few as 3 sentences I’m just as wrong as you are.
Unless we start at 5th level. Then I want three sentences that got you to 1st level, and three more that got you from 1st to 5th level. 😜
And by 5th level, the player's backstory will fill volumes, as it is the history of what the chars have done.
My favourite char now takes a little trinket from each and every fight/ major event. That trinket might be a tiny bit of a braid of hair (body was looted by the time my char got it it) from a Blood Cleric, to a spell book from a White Witch the group defeated, to a tooth from the first dragon the group saw (and defeated). Each one is a reminder for a story the char will tell when he gets home, in front of a warm fire and a cold brew in hand.
THOSE stories will be his backstory.
Nahh, just add what you wrote there to the first three sentences. That’s paragraph two right there, sentences four, five, and six.
PS- I’m not interested in the players’ backstories, they’re my friends. I know where they come from and their significant events. I need their characters’ backstories.
You take that back. Peter was the crux of the whole movie.
Gandalf was an NPC too.
Now you are just being mean.
Gandalf was a demigod. He was the fellowships group patron, just as he was group patron to Thorin’s 13 before that. Gandalf was an NPC.
More importantly, Gandalf was an NPC and Thorin, Bilbo and so on was just a side quest. As soon as the main quest developed, Gandalf dropped the side quest and went off to deal with much more important things!
In theory, Gandalf was a character in a different, much higher level campaign making a guest appearance in a lower level campaign, possibly whilst the player missed a session in the higher level campaign.
I will say it one more time. If I had to choose between a player who said "I am just starting out as an adventurer", but knows the rules cold, and realizes their char is there to complement the group's objectives, versus someone who gives me a 2 page treatise on the injustices against their family, how they are actually royalty, "here is a picture of my char", but does not know the rules of the game, I know which one I would take every time.
I'm pretty sure you'd take the one who knows the rules over the one who doesn't regardless of anything else, if you had to choose. More pertinent is, if it's not between players but just whether you'd accept someone at you table would you turn someone down because they wrote a 2-page backstory?
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what I always find amusing is the player who brings a 20 page backstory and history for his 24 year old human character. Way back when I may have actually told a player, this is great, but you have written the backstory to a level 16 character we are starting at level 1 so I am sorry your going to have to wait to play him.
Now an elf player, brining me his background for his 150 year old elf, I dont mind of it is a little more involved, but I am still careful to make sure there is no experiance in there that makes the player more experienced then they should be.
what I always find amusing is the player who brings a 20 page backstory and history for his 24 year old human character. Way back when I may have actually told a player, this is great, but you have written the backstory to a level 16 character we are starting at level 1 so I am sorry your going to have to wait to play him.
Now an elf player, brining me his background for his 150 year old elf, I dont mind of it is a little more involved, but I am still careful to make sure there is no experiance in there that makes the player more experienced then they should be.
A 20 page backstory doesn't have to contain adventerer experience. Obviously we're both exagerating but the point stands that an elaborate backstory doesn't have to be a gary /mary sue for a lvl 1 character. You could easily include the character's family tree, the history of where they grew up, their childhood, lifestyle, friends and family and even their profession etc.
A 20 page backstory doesn't have to contain adventerer experience. Obviously we're both exagerating but the point stands that an elaborate backstory doesn't have to be a gary /mary sue for a lvl 1 character. You could easily include the character's family tree, the history of where they grew up, their childhood, lifestyle, friends and family and even their profession etc.
I mean, that's all fine, I just wouldn't expect the DM to try and incorporate 20 pages of a novella into the campaign. I am sure some DMs would... I would say, don't expect it from me. If you're going to be disappointed, either (1) you DM (fine by me, less work for me!), or (2) make up a different character with a 3-sentence background so you won't be disappointed.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
what I always find amusing is the player who brings a 20 page backstory and history for his 24 year old human character. Way back when I may have actually told a player, this is great, but you have written the backstory to a level 16 character we are starting at level 1 so I am sorry your going to have to wait to play him.
Now an elf player, brining me his background for his 150 year old elf, I dont mind of it is a little more involved, but I am still careful to make sure there is no experiance in there that makes the player more experienced then they should be.
Considering either one of them (24 yo human or 150 yo elf) could have the Soldier background and have served two tours in a war prior to 1st level…. What’s “more experienced than they should be” supposed to be?
The problem of backstory is less a question of length than it's a question of how relevant is it going to be to the campaign. If you've got a character who's story is all about how they hate dragons because a dragon killed their family and they became a Paladin and swore the Oath of Vengeance against all dragonkind, that's an interesting backstory but does not really fit very well if the GM is running the party through Tomb of Annihilation or Rime of the Frostmaiden.
The problem of backstory is less a question of length than it's a question of how relevant is it going to be to the campaign. If you've got a character who's story is all about how they hate dragons because a dragon killed their family and they became a Paladin and swore the Oath of Vengeance against all dragonkind, that's an interesting backstory but does not really fit very well if the GM is running the party through Tomb of Annihilation or Rime of the Frostmaiden.
Hey look, a good point!
A lot could be said about this. What I like to do is leave gaps for the DM to fill, and for me to fill as we go. Many of them simply don't need to be filled at all, and if you fill them, you're only restricting yourself. Here's an example from my current character.
He was born in a mountain tribe {somewhere}. The tribe was in contact with {some outsiders} but only during trading seasons. His tribe was killed by {something -- turns out it was gnolls, found out in session 0}, and he was one of the {few survivors}. He has a rival who's on a quest too, and it's at {some level of completion}. She's {somewhere} and probably has {some allies}. His father's body {was never recovered}, though that might just be because many were mutilated beyond recognition. He's been touring human cities for {some time} less than a year, and he's been to {some places -- at least Candlekeep, which I decided on when our quest took us there}.
This isn't a backstory that feels especially integrated into the adventure we're playing, but since I left the DM these gaps, I feel confident that it will be, even though I don't currently know how.
Hey, Conan’s backstory was relevant to Conan: The Barbarian, but the thief’s wasn’t. Doesn’t mean Subotai didn’t have a backstory. Like I said, I ask for the three* things I ask for not because I need it, or it’ll be relevant. I do it to learn what the player knows about their character. (Not the PC, the Character.) The contents are less relevant than the fact that the player put 120 seconds of thought into the character as a person and not just a page of combat stats. (That background can be as dragontactic as they want as long as it’s no more than 15 sentences long.) Of course, I don’t use pre-written 1-10+ campaigns either, so if I get a dragon-rific backstory, at some point there’s gonna be some dragons youbetcha. (I mean, it isn’t “Dungeons & Dandilions” after all.)
*(One fact about home life; one significant event in the character’s life, good or bad; and why they became an Adventurer.)
I will say it one more time. If I had to choose between a player who said "I am just starting out as an adventurer", but knows the rules cold, and realizes their char is there to complement the group's objectives, versus someone who gives me a 2 page treatise on the injustices against their family, how they are actually royalty, "here is a picture of my char", but does not know the rules of the game, I know which one I would take every time.
Hell, even if they knew the rules equally well, I would still take the player not interested in a background for their char. That person seems to be me more invested in the group as a whole as opposed to the other one throwing up flags that say "I will need me-time in the game".
I will say it one more time. Who the **** asked for two gorram pages?!? I don’t want 2 ****ing pages.
All I asked for was 3 little sentences.
One little sentence. Two little sentences. Three little sentences. Ha ha ha….
(It’s the same number of sentences as the number of licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.)
that right there is a rarified reference.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Nobody ever gets any "me-time" in Dennis' games? Nobody ever has a big moment? Nobody has a specific role that allows them to shine? No side quests where one character takes the lead for a session or two?
Is Dennis part of a hive mind? Wait...
I'm 40 years old. I have been playing D&D for almost 30 years and I started back with 2/e, and a little OD&D. I am secretly an illithid on an undercover mission to learn about "games".
Is that a Rick and Morty reference?
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Hey, Conan’s backstory was relevant to Conan: The Barbarian, but the thief’s wasn’t. Doesn’t mean Subotai didn’t have a backstory. Like I said, I ask for the three* things I ask for not because I need it, or it’ll be relevant. I do it to learn what the player knows about their character. (Not the PC, the Character.) The contents are less relevant than the fact that the player put 120 seconds of thought into the character as a person and not just a page of combat stats. (That background can be as dragontactic as they want as long as it’s no more than 15 sentences long.) Of course, I don’t use pre-written 1-10+ campaigns either, so if I get a dragon-rific backstory, at some point there’s gonna be some dragons youbetcha. (I mean, it isn’t “Dungeons & Dandilions” after all.)
*(One fact about home life; one significant event in the character’s life, good or bad; and why they became an Adventurer.)
I don’t know. A possessed green dragon guarding a court of demonic dandelions who are planning on tearing up the forests of the material plane to make room for their fiendish spawn, sounds like it could be an unexpected twist in any campaign.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
A 20 page backstory doesn't have to contain adventerer experience. Obviously we're both exagerating but the point stands that an elaborate backstory doesn't have to be a gary /mary sue for a lvl 1 character. You could easily include the character's family tree, the history of where they grew up, their childhood, lifestyle, friends and family and even their profession etc.
I mean, that's all fine, I just wouldn't expect the DM to try and incorporate 20 pages of a novella into the campaign. I am sure some DMs would... I would say, don't expect it from me. If you're going to be disappointed, either (1) you DM (fine by me, less work for me!), or (2) make up a different character with a 3-sentence background so you won't be disappointed.
I don't expect DMs to do anything with whatever campaign we're playing that's specific to my character. If they do, great, I'm on board for that; if they don't, doesn't really matter, we're still playing. However, I think how much of a character's backstory gets incorporated into a campaign is largely not going to depend on the length of that backstory anyway. DMs will likely pick one character hook and run with that, if they're so inclined, whether the backstory has one, five or 500 hooks to hang something on.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
what I always find amusing is the player who brings a 20 page backstory and history for his 24 year old human character. Way back when I may have actually told a player, this is great, but you have written the backstory to a level 16 character we are starting at level 1 so I am sorry your going to have to wait to play him.
Now an elf player, brining me his background for his 150 year old elf, I dont mind of it is a little more involved, but I am still careful to make sure there is no experiance in there that makes the player more experienced then they should be.
Considering either one of them (24 yo human or 150 yo elf) could have the Soldier background and have served two tours in a war prior to 1st level…. What’s “more experienced than they should be” supposed to be?
If you consider that 2-3 fights at level 1 gets you to that next level then for me personally there needs to be a clear reason why after serving 2 tours and fighting many enemies they are not more “experienced” in game terms.
But I am generally talking about players (and I have had this) who give me a story about how parents where killed, they spent 2 years planning and plotting and them avenges that murder, they then met the love of their life, married, she was killed or kidnapped or cursed, they avenged her and so now they are here having lost everything twice.
If you consider that 2-3 fights at level 1 gets you to that next level then for me personally there needs to be a clear reason why after serving 2 tours and fighting many enemies they are not more “experienced” in game terms.
It's not really that hard. I had an Eberron character with the Soldier background who was part of a cleanup/scavenger unit that didn't see any heavy combat, just swept in after a battle to recover whatever usable equipment they could.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Gandalf was an NPC too.
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Excuse me, you quoted the wrong person there.
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Nahh, just add what you wrote there to the first three sentences. That’s paragraph two right there, sentences four, five, and six.
PS- I’m not interested in the players’ backstories, they’re my friends. I know where they come from and their significant events. I need their characters’ backstories.
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Gandalf was a demigod. He was the fellowships group patron, just as he was group patron to Thorin’s 13 before that. Gandalf was an NPC.
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More importantly, Gandalf was an NPC and Thorin, Bilbo and so on was just a side quest. As soon as the main quest developed, Gandalf dropped the side quest and went off to deal with much more important things!
In theory, Gandalf was a character in a different, much higher level campaign making a guest appearance in a lower level campaign, possibly whilst the player missed a session in the higher level campaign.
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I'm pretty sure you'd take the one who knows the rules over the one who doesn't regardless of anything else, if you had to choose. More pertinent is, if it's not between players but just whether you'd accept someone at you table would you turn someone down because they wrote a 2-page backstory?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
what I always find amusing is the player who brings a 20 page backstory and history for his 24 year old human character. Way back when I may have actually told a player, this is great, but you have written the backstory to a level 16 character we are starting at level 1 so I am sorry your going to have to wait to play him.
Now an elf player, brining me his background for his 150 year old elf, I dont mind of it is a little more involved, but I am still careful to make sure there is no experiance in there that makes the player more experienced then they should be.
A 20 page backstory doesn't have to contain adventerer experience. Obviously we're both exagerating but the point stands that an elaborate backstory doesn't have to be a gary /mary sue for a lvl 1 character. You could easily include the character's family tree, the history of where they grew up, their childhood, lifestyle, friends and family and even their profession etc.
I mean, that's all fine, I just wouldn't expect the DM to try and incorporate 20 pages of a novella into the campaign. I am sure some DMs would... I would say, don't expect it from me. If you're going to be disappointed, either (1) you DM (fine by me, less work for me!), or (2) make up a different character with a 3-sentence background so you won't be disappointed.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Considering either one of them (24 yo human or 150 yo elf) could have the Soldier background and have served two tours in a war prior to 1st level…. What’s “more experienced than they should be” supposed to be?
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Do you think three sentences is a long enough backstory…? 🤔 🤷♂️
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The problem of backstory is less a question of length than it's a question of how relevant is it going to be to the campaign. If you've got a character who's story is all about how they hate dragons because a dragon killed their family and they became a Paladin and swore the Oath of Vengeance against all dragonkind, that's an interesting backstory but does not really fit very well if the GM is running the party through Tomb of Annihilation or Rime of the Frostmaiden.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Hey look, a good point!
A lot could be said about this. What I like to do is leave gaps for the DM to fill, and for me to fill as we go. Many of them simply don't need to be filled at all, and if you fill them, you're only restricting yourself. Here's an example from my current character.
He was born in a mountain tribe {somewhere}. The tribe was in contact with {some outsiders} but only during trading seasons. His tribe was killed by {something -- turns out it was gnolls, found out in session 0}, and he was one of the {few survivors}. He has a rival who's on a quest too, and it's at {some level of completion}. She's {somewhere} and probably has {some allies}. His father's body {was never recovered}, though that might just be because many were mutilated beyond recognition. He's been touring human cities for {some time} less than a year, and he's been to {some places -- at least Candlekeep, which I decided on when our quest took us there}.
This isn't a backstory that feels especially integrated into the adventure we're playing, but since I left the DM these gaps, I feel confident that it will be, even though I don't currently know how.
Hey, Conan’s backstory was relevant to Conan: The Barbarian, but the thief’s wasn’t. Doesn’t mean Subotai didn’t have a backstory. Like I said, I ask for the three* things I ask for not because I need it, or it’ll be relevant. I do it to learn what the player knows about their character. (Not the PC, the Character.) The contents are less relevant than the fact that the player put 120 seconds of thought into the character as a person and not just a page of combat stats. (That background can be as dragontactic as they want as long as it’s no more than 15 sentences long.) Of course, I don’t use pre-written 1-10+ campaigns either, so if I get a dragon-rific backstory, at some point there’s gonna be some dragons youbetcha. (I mean, it isn’t “Dungeons & Dandilions” after all.)
*(One fact about home life; one significant event in the character’s life, good or bad; and why they became an Adventurer.)
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
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that right there is a rarified reference.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Is that a Rick and Morty reference?
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I don’t know. A possessed green dragon guarding a court of demonic dandelions who are planning on tearing up the forests of the material plane to make room for their fiendish spawn, sounds like it could be an unexpected twist in any campaign.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I don't expect DMs to do anything with whatever campaign we're playing that's specific to my character. If they do, great, I'm on board for that; if they don't, doesn't really matter, we're still playing. However, I think how much of a character's backstory gets incorporated into a campaign is largely not going to depend on the length of that backstory anyway. DMs will likely pick one character hook and run with that, if they're so inclined, whether the backstory has one, five or 500 hooks to hang something on.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
If you consider that 2-3 fights at level 1 gets you to that next level then for me personally there needs to be a clear reason why after serving 2 tours and fighting many enemies they are not more “experienced” in game terms.
But I am generally talking about players (and I have had this) who give me a story about how parents where killed, they spent 2 years planning and plotting and them avenges that murder, they then met the love of their life, married, she was killed or kidnapped or cursed, they avenged her and so now they are here having lost everything twice.
It's not really that hard. I had an Eberron character with the Soldier background who was part of a cleanup/scavenger unit that didn't see any heavy combat, just swept in after a battle to recover whatever usable equipment they could.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)