OK, first off I'm not talking about rolld20, Fantasy Grounds etc. I'n not familiar with those platforms, maybe people do it already - I don't know.
I'm talking about paying a real life DM to prep and run a table top game for a group wanting to try out D&D. Could be a group of friends, or new folks wanting to get together to try it out.
For example, say $25 per player for a 3.5 hour game. Cost would include everything needed - dice, character, quick tutorial. and adventure.
I probably wouldn't, You can already play for free with the Basic Rules. You can get dice for like 5$. And get a pre-made adventure for free all over the internet. To me unless you are throwing in beer and food I would just get everything I need for 5$ and be ready to go.
I think he means you are also paying for the DM's time to run the game. I have seen this popping up a lot lately. I personally would have no need for this because we have a local game store that hosts Adventure League, so I can just pop down there and play for free, but if you live in remote areas, or if you wanted to play with a particular celebrity or writer, I could see this being a paid service.
I know that there are DM's that charge an hourly or subscription rate to run games for people. $25 per player seems a bit steeper than the prices I've seen floated around, but I know that there are, in fact, people who pay sums of money to play D&D.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yes, the intent is to have an experienced DM run a game for people who want to try it out.
People pay $ for evenings out at the movies, escape room sessions that are $20 and up for 35 min sessions etc so ballpark $25 for 4 hours of one of a kind entertainment with your friends is a great deal. Say $100 for group up to 4-5 players great value to try out the game .
l'd do it for free just thinking about it lately 👍
If I could find interested people near me, I would run learning one shots for free just for the hopes of getting more players in the area interested in the game/my campaign(we are short on players at the moment). I tend to get as much enjoyment out of running a game as I did playing the game and I don't think I could stomach running it as a service.
As a side note, conventions are usually a good place to learn the game. If they are running adventure league, they will usually have several beginner tables with all the stuff you mentioned for free. The most I've ever payed personally was a few dollars to help cover the printing costs of the adventure and maps and such.
dawnforgedcast did a video about this. giving 6 reasons why he thinks its a good idea. To me D&D should be a personalized experience for the players. The DM should know his players and what they enjoy. If you pay a professional DM (I think DFC charges up to $250 a session) for a few hours a week that is throwing money away, you can easily figure it out on your own, and work as a team with your group. I just think that money could be better used to get everything you need to run it yourself.
It seems odd even to me, but the fact that I am constantly DMing for my own group is why I'd probably not actually pay someone else to DM so that I could play.
To try and unpack that a bit; I think that once paying the DM (rather than other compensation factors like members of the group bringing food and drinks, buying gaming supplies, or even being a bit extra generous with the gift giving to the DM when it comes to things like birthdays and holidays) comes into play that expectations and social dynamics will invariably change. I know I would make my best effort not to feel entitled to particular things because I had paid more than my time to participate, but I also imagine that statements like "I don't pay you to kill my character" or "What do you mean I can't have my character [insert in-character action that is potentially disruptive to out-of-character group dynamics]?" and other sorts of entitlements felt as a result of directly paying to play would be floating around the table over time, possibly even worming their way into me despite my efforts to not feel that way.
I also think I'd become even more selective about the quality and style of the DM if I were being asked to pay them. As is I am more tolerant of DMs that aren't very experienced, or don't have full grasp of the rules, than any other player I know. But if I were being asked for cash, I think any flaws or foibles would become grating, insurmountable problems for me - because it's one thing for me to help a DM get better at DMing while we sit at the table as friends, but a whole different animal if we are sitting at the table as customer and service provider.
Yet I do think that it is totally okay for a DM - some DM out there in the world, not one running for me - to receive monetary compensation. I think the most logical case of doing so would be someone employed by a gaming store to run demos, tutorials, and that sort of thing.
I think you would have to $25 for 2 sets of dice, players choice, tutorial and helping people build their own character.
Then $20 for 5, 6 hour sessions per person.
I think this would take the passion out of the game though and how would you do other items, tell your players for an extra 5 bucks you get a +1 item, for 10 bucks a +2 item and for 15 bucks a +3 item.
You as the DM would basically charge for the luck of the party.
Do they get a refund if their character dies to early.
What barbarulo said, I'd pay to have a session with Matt Mercer and maybe Matt Colville, anyone else, they get to drink and eat on my dime and that's it ;)
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Do not kill. Do not ****. Do not steal. These are principles which every person of every faith can embrace.
Again, talking about D&D specifically for a group that wants to try it out and see what the fuss is all about, not experienced players. Nobody needs to read SRD, buy dice, and so on.
Escape rooms don't give $ back if puzzles not solved, $ not refunded if you don't like movie, etc. Goal is to have fun and try out the game. Clearly the session would be geared to new players.
As I said earlier, I'd run an adventure for free (maybe pizza 👍😬) if I ever came across some players who wanted to try the game. Problem is no one is asking. If a DM wanted to actively look for people I wouldn't fault them for charging for a session. Sounds like a lot of work to me, although the current popularity of the game makes me think if a person wanted to do the work there would be a demand for it.
I don't have a problem with it and maybe it suits the psychology of certain players. Not something I'd be interested in offering or paying for. As a DM I'd rather not have the pressure of turning my hobby into a job and, provided I had time, I'd consider it a fun project to teach new players.
For years, players of D&D have had their lunch money stolen from them. Now people want to take that money even before they become pretend elves and wizards!
What next - pyramid schemes?
I think Aaron nailed my viewpoint too.
I used to think that television rotted your brain - compared with some of the stuff on youtube, it's positively 24 hour science documentaries. "Look, I'm un-boxing something!" "Watch as I apply foundation to my face!" "I'm a female goblin!" "Hey, I can play the opening bars of 'Smoke on the Water' !" "Look - I'm playing a video game and I can swear a lot! And laugh until it hurts at stuff that is just not funny. Click below to help fund my drug habit!"
Sheesh.
I've changed my mind - there is probably a massive market for pay-to-play DMs.
In youtube's defence, without it I would never have seen the Foo Fighters playing "2112" in skin tight white trousers and kimonos. Now that's entertainment!
Heck, I'd pay $100 to play in a game with Matt Mercer as the DM (probably more, but that get's into Spousal Tribute arrangements). As for paying to play... for a One-Shot just to try a game? No, probably not. That reminds me too much of Convention gaming or PUGs (one of which is tolerated because of the venue and the excitement of everything else going on). However, I would gladly pay $25 for a once per month session (maybe even $50 for twice a month) to play with quality players on a consistent basis. How you would establish some kind of reputation system that is fair to the players and is not subject to crowd-abuse is beyond me, but it is something I would be willing to pay for.
Like, for example, I don't ask my players to pay a flat fee, but I do have a running "supplies fund" that is completely optional. It's sort of like the collection plate at church. You pay what you can if you can. If not, no worries. My players also bring snacks and drinks to share with me. So in a way, I am being paid, even though all of that money goes back into the game.
However, I've recently been asked to start DMing one-offs for a monthly game night at a local tavern (hehehe). Now, I'm a pretty busy guy. I have a 9-5 day job, I have a bi-weekly game that I DM, I play in a different weekly game, and I run a weekly stand-up comedy open mic (and I try to make appearances at others), and sometimes I get booked on actual shows. I also produce comedy shows every few months. Plus I'm single and I like to have some free time to have a dating life, and I also have fallen deep into the mini painting/3D printing/terrain crafting hobby.
So taking on a new project is going to eat into my time. I have agreed to do the first one just to see exactly how taxing it is without bringing up compensation. But if it proves to be a big hassle, I'm going to ask for a reasonable cut to do it again. Whether this comes out of the player's pockets or beer sales is between the bar and its patrons, but I do guarantee that I will offer a premium experience. 100% painted and accurate minis, 3D printed painted dungeons, pre-generated characters, and all utilities (pencils, paper, dice, etc) provided. Plus, I like to think I'm a decent DM. My comedy experience does lend itself to being quick on my feet and I'm not shy about doing voices and acting out the NPCs.
I also offer this service to my friends with kids as a birthday party option (although none have taken me up on it yet, some have said it sounds fun and interesting).
If anyone decides that the game I offer isn't worth paying me for, or they know other people who will do it for free, they're free to make that choice. I just know what my time is worth.
And ultimately that's what it comes down to. If people are willing to pay a DM and feel like it's worth it, then good for everyone involved. I do know lots of people who can't find a game in my area because there's a severe lack of DMs, so if they ever find a game or not may end up depending on how badly they want to play. Personally, I don't want to take on another regular game, but I wouldn't fault another DM for charging for his time. Or one of those people could just suck it up and learn how to DM for their friends, and that's great.
But I would never outright charge for what I consider to be MY game, as the fun I get out of hanging out with my friends and crafting an adventure for them to explore is worth it. But if I'm running a one-off game for strangers, I'm essentially on the clock as far as I'm concerned.
OK, first off I'm not talking about rolld20, Fantasy Grounds etc. I'n not familiar with those platforms, maybe people do it already - I don't know.
I'm talking about paying a real life DM to prep and run a table top game for a group wanting to try out D&D. Could be a group of friends, or new folks wanting to get together to try it out.
For example, say $25 per player for a 3.5 hour game. Cost would include everything needed - dice, character, quick tutorial. and adventure.
So 25$ for a one-shot session?
I probably wouldn't, You can already play for free with the Basic Rules. You can get dice for like 5$. And get a pre-made adventure for free all over the internet. To me unless you are throwing in beer and food I would just get everything I need for 5$ and be ready to go.
I think he means you are also paying for the DM's time to run the game. I have seen this popping up a lot lately. I personally would have no need for this because we have a local game store that hosts Adventure League, so I can just pop down there and play for free, but if you live in remote areas, or if you wanted to play with a particular celebrity or writer, I could see this being a paid service.
I know that there are DM's that charge an hourly or subscription rate to run games for people. $25 per player seems a bit steeper than the prices I've seen floated around, but I know that there are, in fact, people who pay sums of money to play D&D.
Yes, the intent is to have an experienced DM run a game for people who want to try it out.
People pay $ for evenings out at the movies, escape room sessions that are $20 and up for 35 min sessions etc so ballpark $25 for 4 hours of one of a kind entertainment with your friends is a great deal. Say $100 for group up to 4-5 players great value to try out the game .
l'd do it for free just thinking about it lately 👍
If I could find interested people near me, I would run learning one shots for free just for the hopes of getting more players in the area interested in the game/my campaign(we are short on players at the moment). I tend to get as much enjoyment out of running a game as I did playing the game and I don't think I could stomach running it as a service.
As a side note, conventions are usually a good place to learn the game. If they are running adventure league, they will usually have several beginner tables with all the stuff you mentioned for free. The most I've ever payed personally was a few dollars to help cover the printing costs of the adventure and maps and such.
dawnforgedcast did a video about this. giving 6 reasons why he thinks its a good idea. To me D&D should be a personalized experience for the players. The DM should know his players and what they enjoy. If you pay a professional DM (I think DFC charges up to $250 a session) for a few hours a week that is throwing money away, you can easily figure it out on your own, and work as a team with your group. I just think that money could be better used to get everything you need to run it yourself.
It seems odd even to me, but the fact that I am constantly DMing for my own group is why I'd probably not actually pay someone else to DM so that I could play.
To try and unpack that a bit; I think that once paying the DM (rather than other compensation factors like members of the group bringing food and drinks, buying gaming supplies, or even being a bit extra generous with the gift giving to the DM when it comes to things like birthdays and holidays) comes into play that expectations and social dynamics will invariably change. I know I would make my best effort not to feel entitled to particular things because I had paid more than my time to participate, but I also imagine that statements like "I don't pay you to kill my character" or "What do you mean I can't have my character [insert in-character action that is potentially disruptive to out-of-character group dynamics]?" and other sorts of entitlements felt as a result of directly paying to play would be floating around the table over time, possibly even worming their way into me despite my efforts to not feel that way.
I also think I'd become even more selective about the quality and style of the DM if I were being asked to pay them. As is I am more tolerant of DMs that aren't very experienced, or don't have full grasp of the rules, than any other player I know. But if I were being asked for cash, I think any flaws or foibles would become grating, insurmountable problems for me - because it's one thing for me to help a DM get better at DMing while we sit at the table as friends, but a whole different animal if we are sitting at the table as customer and service provider.
Yet I do think that it is totally okay for a DM - some DM out there in the world, not one running for me - to receive monetary compensation. I think the most logical case of doing so would be someone employed by a gaming store to run demos, tutorials, and that sort of thing.
I think you would have to $25 for 2 sets of dice, players choice, tutorial and helping people build their own character.
Then $20 for 5, 6 hour sessions per person.
I think this would take the passion out of the game though and how would you do other items, tell your players for an extra 5 bucks you get a +1 item, for 10 bucks a +2 item and for 15 bucks a +3 item.
You as the DM would basically charge for the luck of the party.
Do they get a refund if their character dies to early.
What we do in our group, money wise is someone will usually put something up for the DM for food or something like that.
Nope.
Is Matt Mercer the DM?
What barbarulo said, I'd pay to have a session with Matt Mercer and maybe Matt Colville, anyone else, they get to drink and eat on my dime and that's it ;)
Again, talking about D&D specifically for a group that wants to try it out and see what the fuss is all about, not experienced players. Nobody needs to read SRD, buy dice, and so on.
Escape rooms don't give $ back if puzzles not solved, $ not refunded if you don't like movie, etc. Goal is to have fun and try out the game. Clearly the session would be geared to new players.
As I said earlier, I'd run an adventure for free (maybe pizza 👍😬) if I ever came across some players who wanted to try the game. Problem is no one is asking. If a DM wanted to actively look for people I wouldn't fault them for charging for a session. Sounds like a lot of work to me, although the current popularity of the game makes me think if a person wanted to do the work there would be a demand for it.
I don't have a problem with it and maybe it suits the psychology of certain players. Not something I'd be interested in offering or paying for. As a DM I'd rather not have the pressure of turning my hobby into a job and, provided I had time, I'd consider it a fun project to teach new players.
For years, players of D&D have had their lunch money stolen from them. Now people want to take that money even before they become pretend elves and wizards!
What next - pyramid schemes?
I think Aaron nailed my viewpoint too.
I used to think that television rotted your brain - compared with some of the stuff on youtube, it's positively 24 hour science documentaries.
"Look, I'm un-boxing something!"
"Watch as I apply foundation to my face!"
"I'm a female goblin!"
"Hey, I can play the opening bars of 'Smoke on the Water' !"
"Look - I'm playing a video game and I can swear a lot! And laugh until it hurts at stuff that is just not funny. Click below to help fund my drug habit!"
Sheesh.
I've changed my mind - there is probably a massive market for pay-to-play DMs.
In youtube's defence, without it I would never have seen the Foo Fighters playing "2112" in skin tight white trousers and kimonos. Now that's entertainment!
Roleplaying since Runequest.
So resounding NO then...
As a tangent, I wonder if the crews from Critical Role / Dice Camera Action are compensated in any way for playing?
Heck, I'd pay $100 to play in a game with Matt Mercer as the DM (probably more, but that get's into Spousal Tribute arrangements). As for paying to play... for a One-Shot just to try a game? No, probably not. That reminds me too much of Convention gaming or PUGs (one of which is tolerated because of the venue and the excitement of everything else going on). However, I would gladly pay $25 for a once per month session (maybe even $50 for twice a month) to play with quality players on a consistent basis. How you would establish some kind of reputation system that is fair to the players and is not subject to crowd-abuse is beyond me, but it is something I would be willing to pay for.
I think it all depends on the situation.
Like, for example, I don't ask my players to pay a flat fee, but I do have a running "supplies fund" that is completely optional. It's sort of like the collection plate at church. You pay what you can if you can. If not, no worries. My players also bring snacks and drinks to share with me. So in a way, I am being paid, even though all of that money goes back into the game.
However, I've recently been asked to start DMing one-offs for a monthly game night at a local tavern (hehehe). Now, I'm a pretty busy guy. I have a 9-5 day job, I have a bi-weekly game that I DM, I play in a different weekly game, and I run a weekly stand-up comedy open mic (and I try to make appearances at others), and sometimes I get booked on actual shows. I also produce comedy shows every few months. Plus I'm single and I like to have some free time to have a dating life, and I also have fallen deep into the mini painting/3D printing/terrain crafting hobby.
So taking on a new project is going to eat into my time. I have agreed to do the first one just to see exactly how taxing it is without bringing up compensation. But if it proves to be a big hassle, I'm going to ask for a reasonable cut to do it again. Whether this comes out of the player's pockets or beer sales is between the bar and its patrons, but I do guarantee that I will offer a premium experience. 100% painted and accurate minis, 3D printed painted dungeons, pre-generated characters, and all utilities (pencils, paper, dice, etc) provided. Plus, I like to think I'm a decent DM. My comedy experience does lend itself to being quick on my feet and I'm not shy about doing voices and acting out the NPCs.
I also offer this service to my friends with kids as a birthday party option (although none have taken me up on it yet, some have said it sounds fun and interesting).
If anyone decides that the game I offer isn't worth paying me for, or they know other people who will do it for free, they're free to make that choice. I just know what my time is worth.
And ultimately that's what it comes down to. If people are willing to pay a DM and feel like it's worth it, then good for everyone involved. I do know lots of people who can't find a game in my area because there's a severe lack of DMs, so if they ever find a game or not may end up depending on how badly they want to play. Personally, I don't want to take on another regular game, but I wouldn't fault another DM for charging for his time. Or one of those people could just suck it up and learn how to DM for their friends, and that's great.
But I would never outright charge for what I consider to be MY game, as the fun I get out of hanging out with my friends and crafting an adventure for them to explore is worth it. But if I'm running a one-off game for strangers, I'm essentially on the clock as far as I'm concerned.
Your in to deep, get out. No, I think that is great, but if your looking to date you might need a D and D player that is in your games.