Insight is a social skill, used to determine what a person is likely to do or say. It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma). It should belong to Charisma. 5.5 here I come.
Charisma is more about your ability to influence people, at least when it comes to the skills associated with it.
Persuade someone to your point of view. Deceive them. Hold their attention with a performance, or make them feel fear through intimidation.
Insight is about reading their body language or getting into their head. It's kind of like perception but for social cues. I think it fits better under wisdom. I could even see a better arguement for intelligence, if you were say trying to figure out someone's motivations via clues you know rather than observing their behavior or speech. I don't think it really makes sense as CHA.
Insight is the ability to pick up on subtle clues in body language, changes in speech pattern, nervous ticks, looking away, not making eye contact etc. It is almost always going to based on your perception and ability to interpret what you see, hear, smell etc. Charisma is about your strength of personality, how friendly and approachable you are, it also used to be considered as a mark of how good looking you are. There is no real correlation between the two.
Insight isn't inherently a social skill. There are a number of different abilities or even other skills that draw into what sorts of cues to you can pick up on to gain insight. If you imagine the sort of Sherlock Holmes character typified by Jonny Lee Miller and Benedict Cumberbatch, they'd do extremely well with most Insight checks, but they have low Charisma.
I think, if you want to open this door, you have to consider how far you want to open it. Situationally, Strength may be better suited to Intimidation and Intelligence to Persuasion, for instance. I could even contrive a situation where Constitution might be better for Deception. I get that what you are talking about here is about what ability is generally best for Insight rather than some edge case, but I don't know how much I'd agree. I'd say a number of abilities or skills could incidentally give you insight in a given scenario, but Wisdom is the discernment to make effective use of those cues and apply them to a predictive model. It's the least conditional ability that applies here.
I can't really agree with you about Intimidation and Strength, because I think you misunderstand how Charisma (Intimidation) is supposed to work.
If we look in the PHB where it describes Variant Skills it says, "Similarly, when your half-orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma."
Otherwise it's all an act of yelling, threatening, and using body language, but not actually your strength. Acting, angry, creepy, or malicious is Charisma. Flexing your muscles or breaking something is Strength.
I'd only say that Charisma, especially in present mechanics is more like what's represented by WILL or even COOL in other games.. Charisma does not mean you're a nice person, it means you have a personality others fall into line behind. Charisma is something you project onto other. Wisdom is something measuring your ability to take things, or in the case of Insight, a person, in.
Let's remember Sorcerers and Warlocks do not have CHR based magic because they're necessarily nice people, it's more reflective of their ability to command powers beyond normal mortals grasp. It's a matter will or "force" of personality
Basically a high WIS character will use their aptitude to glean an understanding of a personality, a high CHR character may well walk over that personality, or get them to roll with the character regardless of the personality.
Insight is a social skill, used to determine what a person is likely to do or say. It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma). It should belong to Charisma. 5.5 here I come.
For Charisma, here's one guideline (of several) I'd use to determine if a skill should qualify for it somehow: can the skill be used even when the target doesn't know you're using it?
In this case, picture your character hidden inside a barrel somewhere in the corner of a tavern, observing all the inhabitants through a knothole. He spots his target, and observes him the entire time he's in the tavern--his mannerisms, his body language, what he buys, his accent, his dress, and more. Your character is clearly using the Insight skill to read his target--but he's doing it while hidden from view, literally from inside a barrel.
While it might (but I'd argue shouldn't) incur a penalty, I'd imagine most DMs would even allow you to use the skill while remotely scrying on the target, half a continent away, while he's at home alone, concocting his nefarious plans.
In any such case, it seems completely unreasonable to me to claim that your character is using Charisma, when he's not in any way (even indirectly) interacting with his target.
EDIT: Just to be clear, Charisma in 5e isn't "intuition." From the basic rules, it's defined as:
Charisma measures your ability to interact effectively with others. It includes such factors as confidence and eloquence, and it can represent a charming or commanding personality.
Who says intuition is charisma? Honestly insight and intuition are pretty close to synonyms, and both should be wisdom skills. Many wisdom skills are about practice, like Survival and Medicine, but the stronger common bond is experience. Insight isn't necessarily a skill you practice by doing it, because it isn't especially a thing that you actively do, but you do improve with experience, and essentially only with experience. The only wisdom skill that isn't strongly tied to experience is Perception (a bit of a weird fit, actually). And Perception is strongly tied to attentiveness, as is Insight.
Plus, from a game-design perspective, having Insight as a Charisma skill would make anyone with good Charisma a Swiss Army knife of social encounters. It's good in a team-based game to make sure one character can't do it all by themself, and at least two members of the party are engaged in every encounter.
Exactly. Some skills are more flexible than others.
Intimidation is charisma by default because it's about convincing the person you can and will make good on the threat/otherwise making yourself intimidating. This isn't always through strength, but could be through threatening a loved one, etc. But strength can situationally be an apt substitution.
I could also see arguements for intelligence persuasion if you're going into detail on advanced, complicated subjects like arcana to persuade someone that your theory is correct.
I could see athletics being tied to con rather than strength if the DM wants to test your ability to do it for long periods of time for endurance.
Insight I couldn't imagine being tied to any of the physical stats or charisma. The only thing I could imagine is maybe intelligence, if you're piecing together clues about someone's behavior distantly to try and get into their head and guess their next move, rather than observing them in real time.
I honestly have a hard time thinking of any of the RAW skills that aren't CHA by default where CHA would be applicable.
Insight is a social skill, used to determine what a person is likely to do or say. It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma). It should belong to Charisma. 5.5 here I come.
Wisdom is not practice and Charisma is not intuition. Wisdom is a measure of how well attuned you are to yourself (strength of will), your surroundings (perceptiveness) and the people you interact with (insight). Charisma is a measure of how strongly you can impress, connect with and impose your will on others. There are certainly skill proficiencies that i could see moved to another default ability (Animal Handling could just as easily go under Charisma I think, I'm sure the only reason it's under Wisdom is because it involves communication with non-humanoids; Medicine could go under Intelligence) and ability checks in general can be fluid in how they pair with certain skills, but Insight by default going under Wisdom is just common sense.
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I don't see insight as a social or charisma based thing. Can you watch a movie and get a feel for whether the actors are depicting the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing? Anything you could measure without talking to or being seen by your target (subject) isn't a charisma based skill. Charisma is about interacting with your target (subject).
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It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma).
That is wrong in at least three ways.
1: Wisdom isn't about practice. It's about awareness and the ability to process information gained from that awareness. That's why it's used for Perception and Insight (which is determining a person's motives based on observations). Wisdom saving throws are used against effects that can be countered by the awareness of the nature of the influence coming against the character.
2: There is nothing hypothetical about Insight. As I already said, it's about forming an accurate conclusion based on observed facts. An insightful character might detect another character is being untruthful, fearful, nervous, etc based on a change in their tone of voice, a shyness from eye contact, fidgeting with their hands, or any number of other tells. See the multiple references to Sherlock Holmes above, he's a classic example of a high intelligence, high wisdom, and low charisma character and he uses his wisdom and intelligence to discover hard facts, not form unproven hypotheses.
3: Charisma has nothing to do with intuition. Intuition is, for the purposes of this conversation, exactly what the Insight skill represents, and that's a wisdom trait for the reasons already stated. Charisma is a purely "output" ability, the ability to project thoughts, feelings, and concepts to others. External force of will, most often factoring into D&D when overlapping with Deception (convincing others that falsehoods are true) and Persuasion (convincing someone that you're telling the truth or that the ideas you are presenting to them are otherwise valid); it's always about influencing others. Insight as a skill is an application of one's own wisdom to parse another person's use of their charisma and determine why and how they are presenting something to you.
I recommend you read the actual descriptions of ability scores in the Player's Handbook before declaring yourself a visionary on rules you're clearly unfamiliar with.
It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma).
That is wrong in at least three ways.
1: Wisdom isn't about practice. It's about awareness and the ability to process information gained from that awareness. That's why it's used for Perception and Insight (which is determining a person's motives based on observations). Wisdom saving throws are used against effects that can be countered by the awareness of the nature of the influence coming against the character.
2: There is nothing hypothetical about Insight. As I already said, it's about forming an accurate conclusion based on observed facts. An insightful character might detect another character is being untruthful, fearful, nervous, etc based on a change in their tone of voice, a shyness from eye contact, fidgeting with their hands, or any number of other tells. See the multiple references to Sherlock Holmes above, he's a classic example of a high intelligence, high wisdom, and low charisma character and he uses his wisdom and intelligence to discover hard facts, not form unproven hypotheses.
3: Charisma has nothing to do with intuition. Intuition is, for the purposes of this conversation, exactly what the Insight skill represents, and that's a wisdom trait for the reasons already stated. Charisma is a purely "output" ability, the ability to project thoughts, feelings, and concepts to others. External force of will, most often factoring into D&D when overlapping with Deception (convincing others that falsehoods are true) and Persuasion (convincing someone that you're telling the truth or that the ideas you are presenting to them are otherwise valid); it's always about influencing others. Insight as a skill is an application of one's own wisdom to parse another person's use of their charisma and determine why and how they are presenting something to you.
I recommend you read the actual descriptions of ability scores in the Player's Handbook before declaring yourself a visionary on rules you're clearly unfamiliar with.
You understand that to be effective when using your charisma that you need to play to your audience, right? You have to read them. By your point, to be effective at Charisma checks, you must have good insight, which is pretty pointless.
Here's the thing about Intelligence vs. Wisdom vs. Charisma: intelligence based skills aren't a thing you can practice. You can read, write, and understand, but you can't do a religion. You can't do a nature. Go ahead and try to do a History. "Oh, but what about Investigation!" I hear you say. "Ignoring the failure of language that D&D is rife with, I can investigate." To which I say, "Investigation is about recognizing that something is off. Just because something is off doesn't mean that it's wrong, but but you recognize something is uncommon."
You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.
There's the PHB's blurb. Less about testing for what kind of knife made a wound and more about noticing wound depth and the cleanness of a cut not meshing with the ax someone else suggested. Heck, the very few Intelligence saving throws are about pattern recognition, not pattern sensing. "That doesn't sound like me." And "Why does his cape billow so much inside?" Are Intelligence saving throws.
How about Wisdom then? Wisdom skills are things you can practice / physically do, that require what you physically do. "Don't fall off a horse." Yep, that takes special training. "Listen through the noise for footsteps coming towards you." Again, you need to practice that, but you don't need special jargon. "Clean up and bandage that wound." Is better done by someone with experience than someone who can tell you to use sutures on their poplar abrasion." Finding food and water is a skill you won't have unless you've done it. The only one that's off is Insight, but it's off because of how Charisma skills work. Wisdom saves are all about mental endurance.
Charisma skills all involve how you handle another intelligent person who's likely around as smart as you are. Reading a person is a people skill, just like tapping into their insecurities, fears, dreams, and biases. Lastly, Charisma saving throws, if you read the spells are generally about making a good judgement about people or places.
I don't see insight as a social or charisma based thing. Can you watch a movie and get a feel for whether the actors are depicting the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing? Anything you could measure without talking to or being seen by your target (subject) isn't a charisma based skill. Charisma is about interacting with your target (subject).
That's a good enough description of Charisma, but I ask you, what is insight?
Your Wisdom (Insight) check decides whether you can determine the true intentions of a creature, such as when searching out a lie or predicting someone’s next move. Doing so involves gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms.
If you read a description about "body language", "speech habits" , and "mannerisms" anywhere else, would your gut day "Oh yeah, wisdom for sure!" Or would your Cha Saving Throw make you say, "Sounds like Charisma to me."
Insight is a social skill, used to determine what a person is likely to do or say. It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma). It should belong to Charisma. 5.5 here I come.
Wisdom is not practice and Charisma is not intuition. Wisdom is a measure of how well attuned you are to yourself (strength of will), your surroundings (perceptiveness) and the people you interact with (insight). Charisma is a measure of how strongly you can impress, connect with and impose your will on others. There are certainly skill proficiencies that i could see moved to another default ability (Animal Handling could just as easily go under Charisma I think, I'm sure the only reason it's under Wisdom is because it involves communication with non-humanoids; Medicine could go under Intelligence) and ability checks in general can be fluid in how they pair with certain skills, but Insight by default going under Wisdom is just common sense.
I would agree with you in earlier editions of D&D. And while I agree with you about why Animal Handling is Wisdom, I also believe that there's a big difference between altering a person's beliefs as you do with Charisma, versus recognizing what drives an animal as in animal handling.
In another response, I flippantly said that Animal Handling is a thing you physically do, because it doesn't matter how many books you read, nor horses you pet, when that horse bucks, you need to be physically ready to stay on and in control, and that takes practice on a horse. Then if we look at the Lost Mines of Phandelver, there's an AH check with some angry wolves. A success reveals that these animals are just abused and hungry. Give them what they want, ir prove that you aren't going to do the bad thing, and they'll leave you alone. Your working with their instincts, not higher thought patterns.
I don't see insight as a social or charisma based thing. Can you watch a movie and get a feel for whether the actors are depicting the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing? Anything you could measure without talking to or being seen by your target (subject) isn't a charisma based skill. Charisma is about interacting with your target (subject).
That's a good enough description of Charisma, but I ask you, what is insight?
Your Wisdom (Insight) check decides whether you can determine the true intentions of a creature, such as when searching out a lie or predicting someone’s next move. Doing so involves gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms.
If you read a description about "body language", "speech habits" , and "mannerisms" anywhere else, would your gut day "Oh yeah, wisdom for sure!" Or would your Cha Saving Throw make you say, "Sounds like Charisma to me."
There are some charismatic people, like Tony Robbins, who use Insight in the form of cold reading to enhance their ability to influence people. But there are also charismatic people, like Tom Cruise, who charm the majority of moviegoers despite having no insight on most of them. Insight can help you in social situations. The DM might give you advantage if you target your persuasive or intimidating language to the particular weakness of the target, e.g. greed, lust, fear. But not everything useful in a social situation is charisma. It would be a boring game if it was.
I would agree with you in earlier editions of D&D.
While how things were in previous editions doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how they are in this one, I don't see any indication in the writeups of the various abilities on 5E that makes them significantly different from how they were before.
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Who says intuition is charisma? Honestly insight and intuition are pretty close to synonyms, and both should be wisdom skills. Many wisdom skills are about practice, like Survival and Medicine, but the stronger common bond is experience. Insight isn't necessarily a skill you practice by doing it, because it isn't especially a thing that you actively do, but you do improve with experience, and essentially only with experience. The only wisdom skill that isn't strongly tied to experience is Perception (a bit of a weird fit, actually). And Perception is strongly tied to attentiveness, as is Insight.
Plus, from a game-design perspective, having Insight as a Charisma skill would make anyone with good Charisma a Swiss Army knife of social encounters. It's good in a team-based game to make sure one character can't do it all by themself, and at least two members of the party are engaged in every encounter.
It feels a bit weird, but my current feeling is, "Isn't that how most parties tend to play already?" You have a face who's good in social interactions, and when that breaks down the others try. You have the Explorer who has most of the Wisdom skills and keeps the party alive when outside... except a ton of them are fairly pointless so they focus on Perception and pack Goodbarry.
As for Insight vs. Intuition, I'f like to point you to the concept, "Failure of Language". This means that you can generally argue anything by looking at the words in a vacuum instead of their context. As an example, Hard Liquor is bad because it resulted in Hitler's rise to power. Sure, you CAN argue that a guy playing around with his Still through some crude oil in and figured out kerosene, which a few degrees of separation later gets you to 1930's Germany and their war plan to collect oil, but it ignores context.
Insight and Intuition are synonymous in English, but Insight is a specific jargon in D&D, unlike intuition. I have seen players argue that the DM should let them to "get some insight on this trap." Which was missed by the DM because the sentence worked in English, even though it broke the rules. (My inner rules lawyer was hard to fight back that day, but I kept him quiet). D&D is FULL of language failures.
Dexterity is specifically hand-eye coordination. Sometimes even as specific as your Right Handedness. This would apply to sleight-of-hand, and finesse attacks. This wouldn't apply to ranged accuracy, your reflexes (dex saves), your balance, stealth, nor acrobatics. None of those are even close, but game jargon doesn't have to match normal English, and thus it doesn't, and assuming the Language does match is setting you up for failure.
I don't see insight as a social or charisma based thing. Can you watch a movie and get a feel for whether the actors are depicting the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing? Anything you could measure without talking to or being seen by your target (subject) isn't a charisma based skill. Charisma is about interacting with your target (subject).
That's a good enough description of Charisma, but I ask you, what is insight?
Your Wisdom (Insight) check decides whether you can determine the true intentions of a creature, such as when searching out a lie or predicting someone’s next move. Doing so involves gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms.
If you read a description about "body language", "speech habits" , and "mannerisms" anywhere else, would your gut day "Oh yeah, wisdom for sure!" Or would your Cha Saving Throw make you say, "Sounds like Charisma to me."
There are some charismatic people, like Tony Robbins, who use Insight in the form of cold reading to enhance their ability to influence people. But there are also charismatic people, like Tom Cruise, who charm the majority of moviegoers despite having no insight on most of them. Insight can help you in social situations. The DM might give you advantage if you target your persuasive or intimidating language to the particular weakness of the target, e.g. greed, lust, fear. But not everything useful in a social situation is charisma. It would be a boring game if it was.
Your example ignores the fact that Performance is a Charisma skill and not Charisma in its entirety. Insight isn't the same thing as a different skill because it isn't that skill.
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Insight is a social skill, used to determine what a person is likely to do or say. It's less about practice (wisdom), isn't a thing that's mosty hypothetical (intelligence) and more about intuition (charisma). It should belong to Charisma. 5.5 here I come.
Charisma is more about your ability to influence people, at least when it comes to the skills associated with it.
Persuade someone to your point of view. Deceive them. Hold their attention with a performance, or make them feel fear through intimidation.
Insight is about reading their body language or getting into their head. It's kind of like perception but for social cues. I think it fits better under wisdom. I could even see a better arguement for intelligence, if you were say trying to figure out someone's motivations via clues you know rather than observing their behavior or speech. I don't think it really makes sense as CHA.
While not perfect by any means, it can be helpful to consider the mental and physical attributes in the following context:
Constitution and Charisma. A character's physical and personality integrity. (How well actualized they are in the world.)
Dexterity and Wisdom. A character's reflexes and intuitions. (Their ability to understand and respond to the world around them.)
Strength and Intelligence. A character's ability to manifest change. (Their capacity for brute force or planning.)
The nature of D&D classes bends these pretty liberally, but this seems to be the pattern at its core.
Insight is the ability to pick up on subtle clues in body language, changes in speech pattern, nervous ticks, looking away, not making eye contact etc. It is almost always going to based on your perception and ability to interpret what you see, hear, smell etc. Charisma is about your strength of personality, how friendly and approachable you are, it also used to be considered as a mark of how good looking you are. There is no real correlation between the two.
I can't really agree with you about Intimidation and Strength, because I think you misunderstand how Charisma (Intimidation) is supposed to work.
If we look in the PHB where it describes Variant Skills it says, "Similarly, when your half-orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma."
Otherwise it's all an act of yelling, threatening, and using body language, but not actually your strength. Acting, angry, creepy, or malicious is Charisma. Flexing your muscles or breaking something is Strength.
I'd only say that Charisma, especially in present mechanics is more like what's represented by WILL or even COOL in other games.. Charisma does not mean you're a nice person, it means you have a personality others fall into line behind. Charisma is something you project onto other. Wisdom is something measuring your ability to take things, or in the case of Insight, a person, in.
Let's remember Sorcerers and Warlocks do not have CHR based magic because they're necessarily nice people, it's more reflective of their ability to command powers beyond normal mortals grasp. It's a matter will or "force" of personality
Basically a high WIS character will use their aptitude to glean an understanding of a personality, a high CHR character may well walk over that personality, or get them to roll with the character regardless of the personality.
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For Charisma, here's one guideline (of several) I'd use to determine if a skill should qualify for it somehow: can the skill be used even when the target doesn't know you're using it?
In this case, picture your character hidden inside a barrel somewhere in the corner of a tavern, observing all the inhabitants through a knothole. He spots his target, and observes him the entire time he's in the tavern--his mannerisms, his body language, what he buys, his accent, his dress, and more. Your character is clearly using the Insight skill to read his target--but he's doing it while hidden from view, literally from inside a barrel.
While it might (but I'd argue shouldn't) incur a penalty, I'd imagine most DMs would even allow you to use the skill while remotely scrying on the target, half a continent away, while he's at home alone, concocting his nefarious plans.
In any such case, it seems completely unreasonable to me to claim that your character is using Charisma, when he's not in any way (even indirectly) interacting with his target.
EDIT: Just to be clear, Charisma in 5e isn't "intuition." From the basic rules, it's defined as:
Emphasis added.
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Who says intuition is charisma? Honestly insight and intuition are pretty close to synonyms, and both should be wisdom skills. Many wisdom skills are about practice, like Survival and Medicine, but the stronger common bond is experience. Insight isn't necessarily a skill you practice by doing it, because it isn't especially a thing that you actively do, but you do improve with experience, and essentially only with experience. The only wisdom skill that isn't strongly tied to experience is Perception (a bit of a weird fit, actually). And Perception is strongly tied to attentiveness, as is Insight.
Plus, from a game-design perspective, having Insight as a Charisma skill would make anyone with good Charisma a Swiss Army knife of social encounters. It's good in a team-based game to make sure one character can't do it all by themself, and at least two members of the party are engaged in every encounter.
Exactly. Some skills are more flexible than others.
Intimidation is charisma by default because it's about convincing the person you can and will make good on the threat/otherwise making yourself intimidating. This isn't always through strength, but could be through threatening a loved one, etc. But strength can situationally be an apt substitution.
I could also see arguements for intelligence persuasion if you're going into detail on advanced, complicated subjects like arcana to persuade someone that your theory is correct.
I could see athletics being tied to con rather than strength if the DM wants to test your ability to do it for long periods of time for endurance.
Insight I couldn't imagine being tied to any of the physical stats or charisma. The only thing I could imagine is maybe intelligence, if you're piecing together clues about someone's behavior distantly to try and get into their head and guess their next move, rather than observing them in real time.
I honestly have a hard time thinking of any of the RAW skills that aren't CHA by default where CHA would be applicable.
Wisdom is not practice and Charisma is not intuition. Wisdom is a measure of how well attuned you are to yourself (strength of will), your surroundings (perceptiveness) and the people you interact with (insight). Charisma is a measure of how strongly you can impress, connect with and impose your will on others. There are certainly skill proficiencies that i could see moved to another default ability (Animal Handling could just as easily go under Charisma I think, I'm sure the only reason it's under Wisdom is because it involves communication with non-humanoids; Medicine could go under Intelligence) and ability checks in general can be fluid in how they pair with certain skills, but Insight by default going under Wisdom is just common sense.
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I don't see insight as a social or charisma based thing. Can you watch a movie and get a feel for whether the actors are depicting the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing? Anything you could measure without talking to or being seen by your target (subject) isn't a charisma based skill. Charisma is about interacting with your target (subject).
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Let me stop you right there. Intuition is squarely in the domain of Wisdom.
That is wrong in at least three ways.
1: Wisdom isn't about practice. It's about awareness and the ability to process information gained from that awareness. That's why it's used for Perception and Insight (which is determining a person's motives based on observations). Wisdom saving throws are used against effects that can be countered by the awareness of the nature of the influence coming against the character.
2: There is nothing hypothetical about Insight. As I already said, it's about forming an accurate conclusion based on observed facts. An insightful character might detect another character is being untruthful, fearful, nervous, etc based on a change in their tone of voice, a shyness from eye contact, fidgeting with their hands, or any number of other tells. See the multiple references to Sherlock Holmes above, he's a classic example of a high intelligence, high wisdom, and low charisma character and he uses his wisdom and intelligence to discover hard facts, not form unproven hypotheses.
3: Charisma has nothing to do with intuition. Intuition is, for the purposes of this conversation, exactly what the Insight skill represents, and that's a wisdom trait for the reasons already stated. Charisma is a purely "output" ability, the ability to project thoughts, feelings, and concepts to others. External force of will, most often factoring into D&D when overlapping with Deception (convincing others that falsehoods are true) and Persuasion (convincing someone that you're telling the truth or that the ideas you are presenting to them are otherwise valid); it's always about influencing others. Insight as a skill is an application of one's own wisdom to parse another person's use of their charisma and determine why and how they are presenting something to you.
I recommend you read the actual descriptions of ability scores in the Player's Handbook before declaring yourself a visionary on rules you're clearly unfamiliar with.
You understand that to be effective when using your charisma that you need to play to your audience, right? You have to read them. By your point, to be effective at Charisma checks, you must have good insight, which is pretty pointless.
Here's the thing about Intelligence vs. Wisdom vs. Charisma: intelligence based skills aren't a thing you can practice. You can read, write, and understand, but you can't do a religion. You can't do a nature. Go ahead and try to do a History. "Oh, but what about Investigation!" I hear you say. "Ignoring the failure of language that D&D is rife with, I can investigate." To which I say, "Investigation is about recognizing that something is off. Just because something is off doesn't mean that it's wrong, but but you recognize something is uncommon."
You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.
There's the PHB's blurb. Less about testing for what kind of knife made a wound and more about noticing wound depth and the cleanness of a cut not meshing with the ax someone else suggested. Heck, the very few Intelligence saving throws are about pattern recognition, not pattern sensing. "That doesn't sound like me." And "Why does his cape billow so much inside?" Are Intelligence saving throws.
How about Wisdom then? Wisdom skills are things you can practice / physically do, that require what you physically do. "Don't fall off a horse." Yep, that takes special training. "Listen through the noise for footsteps coming towards you." Again, you need to practice that, but you don't need special jargon. "Clean up and bandage that wound." Is better done by someone with experience than someone who can tell you to use sutures on their poplar abrasion." Finding food and water is a skill you won't have unless you've done it. The only one that's off is Insight, but it's off because of how Charisma skills work. Wisdom saves are all about mental endurance.
Charisma skills all involve how you handle another intelligent person who's likely around as smart as you are. Reading a person is a people skill, just like tapping into their insecurities, fears, dreams, and biases. Lastly, Charisma saving throws, if you read the spells are generally about making a good judgement about people or places.
That's a good enough description of Charisma, but I ask you, what is insight?
Your Wisdom (Insight) check decides whether you can determine the true intentions of a creature, such as when searching out a lie or predicting someone’s next move. Doing so involves gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms.
If you read a description about "body language", "speech habits" , and "mannerisms" anywhere else, would your gut day "Oh yeah, wisdom for sure!" Or would your Cha Saving Throw make you say, "Sounds like Charisma to me."
I would agree with you in earlier editions of D&D. And while I agree with you about why Animal Handling is Wisdom, I also believe that there's a big difference between altering a person's beliefs as you do with Charisma, versus recognizing what drives an animal as in animal handling.
In another response, I flippantly said that Animal Handling is a thing you physically do, because it doesn't matter how many books you read, nor horses you pet, when that horse bucks, you need to be physically ready to stay on and in control, and that takes practice on a horse. Then if we look at the Lost Mines of Phandelver, there's an AH check with some angry wolves. A success reveals that these animals are just abused and hungry. Give them what they want, ir prove that you aren't going to do the bad thing, and they'll leave you alone. Your working with their instincts, not higher thought patterns.
There are some charismatic people, like Tony Robbins, who use Insight in the form of cold reading to enhance their ability to influence people. But there are also charismatic people, like Tom Cruise, who charm the majority of moviegoers despite having no insight on most of them. Insight can help you in social situations. The DM might give you advantage if you target your persuasive or intimidating language to the particular weakness of the target, e.g. greed, lust, fear. But not everything useful in a social situation is charisma. It would be a boring game if it was.
While how things were in previous editions doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how they are in this one, I don't see any indication in the writeups of the various abilities on 5E that makes them significantly different from how they were before.
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It feels a bit weird, but my current feeling is, "Isn't that how most parties tend to play already?" You have a face who's good in social interactions, and when that breaks down the others try. You have the Explorer who has most of the Wisdom skills and keeps the party alive when outside... except a ton of them are fairly pointless so they focus on Perception and pack Goodbarry.
As for Insight vs. Intuition, I'f like to point you to the concept, "Failure of Language". This means that you can generally argue anything by looking at the words in a vacuum instead of their context. As an example, Hard Liquor is bad because it resulted in Hitler's rise to power. Sure, you CAN argue that a guy playing around with his Still through some crude oil in and figured out kerosene, which a few degrees of separation later gets you to 1930's Germany and their war plan to collect oil, but it ignores context.
Insight and Intuition are synonymous in English, but Insight is a specific jargon in D&D, unlike intuition. I have seen players argue that the DM should let them to "get some insight on this trap." Which was missed by the DM because the sentence worked in English, even though it broke the rules. (My inner rules lawyer was hard to fight back that day, but I kept him quiet). D&D is FULL of language failures.
Dexterity is specifically hand-eye coordination. Sometimes even as specific as your Right Handedness. This would apply to sleight-of-hand, and finesse attacks. This wouldn't apply to ranged accuracy, your reflexes (dex saves), your balance, stealth, nor acrobatics. None of those are even close, but game jargon doesn't have to match normal English, and thus it doesn't, and assuming the Language does match is setting you up for failure.
Your example ignores the fact that Performance is a Charisma skill and not Charisma in its entirety. Insight isn't the same thing as a different skill because it isn't that skill.