Literally playing it at thirteenth level right now, Optimus. Sundays at either noon or five-thirty, depending on DM schedule. Have been since Feburary-ish when the game kicked into gear. I have the Disintegrate/Barbs combo ready to hand at my fingertips. I don't have Disintegrate prepared at time of writing this post because we were engaging in a gladiatorial exhibition match against another team of adventurers and Disintegrating a coworker was kinna sorta maybe just a twinge not kosher, but I have the combo prepared most days.
I've never cast it. Because anything worth Disintegrating almost universally has a double-digit Dex save bonus, and even with Barbs the odds are much better than even that I'd blow an entire turn and a sixth-level spell slot doing dick-all when I cannot afford to do that. Not as my team's only full-flight caster. The warlock can back me up occasionally, but their goal is generally blasting and CLS. I'm the one nigh-solely responsible for Teh Majicks, and that means making every turn and every spell slot count. Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere - these are the tools I can rely on, and the ones I end up using. When I need to do damage? I upcast Rime's Binding Ice, or I use a transformation spell to give myself round-over-round damage worthy of blowing a spell slot on.
Barbs hasn't been a big deal for me because even with it, I can't trust big-punch save-or-suck spells that fizzle entirely on a save. Does Barbs improve their reliability? Sure. Does it improve their reliability enough? No. Not when your team's asses are hanging in the balance of your every cast.
You wouldn't be able to cast silvery barbs and disintegrate on the same turn anyway (link).
Literally playing it at thirteenth level right now, Optimus. Sundays at either noon or five-thirty, depending on DM schedule. Have been since Feburary-ish when the game kicked into gear. I have the Disintegrate/Barbs combo ready to hand at my fingertips. I don't have Disintegrate prepared at time of writing this post because we were engaging in a gladiatorial exhibition match against another team of adventurers and Disintegrating a coworker was kinna sorta maybe just a twinge not kosher, but I have the combo prepared most days.
I've never cast it. Because anything worth Disintegrating almost universally has a double-digit Dex save bonus, and even with Barbs the odds are much better than even that I'd blow an entire turn and a sixth-level spell slot doing dick-all when I cannot afford to do that. Not as my team's only full-flight caster. The warlock can back me up occasionally, but their goal is generally blasting and CLS. I'm the one nigh-solely responsible for Teh Majicks, and that means making every turn and every spell slot count. Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere - these are the tools I can rely on, and the ones I end up using. When I need to do damage? I upcast Rime's Binding Ice, or I use a transformation spell to give myself round-over-round damage worthy of blowing a spell slot on.
Barbs hasn't been a big deal for me because even with it, I can't trust big-punch save-or-suck spells that fizzle entirely on a save. Does Barbs improve their reliability? Sure. Does it improve their reliability enough? No. Not when your team's asses are hanging in the balance of your every cast.
You wouldn't be able to cast silvery barbs and disintegrate on the same turn anyway (link).
You wouldn't be able to cast silvery barbs and disintegrate on the same turn anyway (link).
Reactions are independent of that rule. It's only if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action that you can't cast a levelled spell as an Action. You can cast Disintegrate and Silvery Barbs in the same round, no problem.
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Another thing that Silvery Barbs can do that is a somewhat rare ability in 5e is the ability to negate an enemy's critical hit. The only other things that I can think of that can do such a thing is Runic Shield, Sentinel at Death's Door, and Adamantine Armor. The former two are subclass features that are 6th level or higher and the latter is a magic item.
This 1st level spell can do that AND give you or an ally advantage on your next roll on top of that. Not to mention, the spell then also has versatility beyond that application (so it is not as limited to only affecting one type of roll like Sentinel at Death's Door and the effect of the armor).
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
And that brings us back full circle, this does not work.
Yes of course it does, it forces the target to reroll and take the lowest. Just like if you have disadvantage. Just because you roll a nat 20 it doesn’t mean you ignore the fact you have disadvantage.
So no one in either campaign I'm running has used this spell yet, although one person has taken it. The more I think about it though I don't really think it's really OP. Especially the way most people thought it would be when it first came out and I think it's also because it is a reaction ability (which it also wouldn't make sense to do it any other way) and depending on who has the spell, what you're facing and that character's capabilities you kind of have to be careful when you use your reaction/what you use your reaction for.
Another thing that Silvery Barbs can do that is a somewhat rare ability in 5e is the ability to negate an enemy's critical hit. The only other things that I can think of that can do such a thing is Runic Shield, Sentinel at Death's Door, and Adamantine Armor. The former two are subclass features that are 6th level or higher and the latter is a magic item.
This 1st level spell can do that AND give you or an ally advantage on your next roll on top of that. Not to mention, the spell then also has versatility beyond that application (so it is not as limited to only affecting one type of roll like Sentinel at Death's Door and the effect of the armor).
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
Yeah, this the only thing that this spell does reliably.
Another thing that Silvery Barbs can do that is a somewhat rare ability in 5e is the ability to negate an enemy's critical hit. The only other things that I can think of that can do such a thing is Runic Shield, Sentinel at Death's Door, and Adamantine Armor. The former two are subclass features that are 6th level or higher and the latter is a magic item.
This 1st level spell can do that AND give you or an ally advantage on your next roll on top of that. Not to mention, the spell then also has versatility beyond that application (so it is not as limited to only affecting one type of roll like Sentinel at Death's Door and the effect of the armor).
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
And that brings us back full circle, this does not work.
Yes of course it does, it forces the target to reroll and take the lowest. Just like if you have disadvantage. Just because you roll a nat 20 it doesn’t mean you ignore the fact you have disadvantage.
You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
Yeah, considering the assortment of spells you kind of have to tell players anymore what the monster rolled because of things like Shield, Bend Luck, and so on.
Yeah, considering the assortment of spells you kind of have to tell players anymore what the monster rolled because of things like Shield, Bend Luck, and so on.
I don’t know what Bend Luck is, but you definitely do not have to tell players what the monster rolled. I certainly don’t.
Some GMs do, and that’s fine, definitely not arguing against that. But the idea that you “have to” is absurd.
Yeah, considering the assortment of spells you kind of have to tell players anymore what the monster rolled because of things like Shield, Bend Luck, and so on.
I don’t know what Bend Luck is, but you definitely do not have to tell players what the monster rolled. I certainly don’t.
Some GMs do, and that’s fine, definitely not arguing against that. But the idea that you “have to” is absurd.
Bend Luck
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. You can do so after the creature rolls but before any effects of the roll occur.
If a participant have abilities that depend on a roll or outcome to be used, it should be informed of it. But game elements may differ from one another on this perspective, for exemple Cutting Word needs to be informed of the roll but not the outcome while the spells Shield or Silvery Bard must be informed of the outcome but not the roll necessarily.
DMs may always decide to be more or less transparent if they wish.
You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
That is utterly dependent on the table, I generally always roll in the open. Not only that but there are a number of magical items that specifically rely on the players knowing if it was a critical hit or not, such as a Guardian Emblem which says - When you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you suffers a critical hit while you’re wearing the armor or wielding the shield that bears the emblem, you can use your reaction to expend 1 charge to turn the critical hit into a normal hit instead. So if you didn't know then you couldn't use this item or any other of the abilities and items.
Yeah, considering the assortment of spells you kind of have to tell players anymore what the monster rolled because of things like Shield, Bend Luck, and so on.
You are not actually required to do so. It's a significant nerf to shield, and to abilities such as cutting words or bend luck, but absolutely nothing in the rules says you have to do it.
You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
That is utterly dependent on the table, I generally always roll in the open. Not only that but there are a number of magical items that specifically rely on the players knowing if it was a critical hit or not, such as a Guardian Emblem which says - When you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you suffers a critical hit while you’re wearing the armor or wielding the shield that bears the emblem, you can use your reaction to expend 1 charge to turn the critical hit into a normal hit instead. So if you didn't know then you couldn't use this item or any other of the abilities and items.
This Item especially mentions a critical roll. So if you go by that, it means that in all other cases you don't know, as there is no mention of the crit in other spells, abilities, etc..
You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
That is utterly dependent on the table, I generally always roll in the open. Not only that but there are a number of magical items that specifically rely on the players knowing if it was a critical hit or not, such as a Guardian Emblem which says - When you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you suffers a critical hit while you’re wearing the armor or wielding the shield that bears the emblem, you can use your reaction to expend 1 charge to turn the critical hit into a normal hit instead. So if you didn't know then you couldn't use this item or any other of the abilities and items.
This Item especially mentions a critical roll. So if you go by that, it means that in all other cases you don't know, as there is no mention of the crit in other spells, abilities, etc..
That's not what I got from the quoted text. It says that when you see a creature suffer one - it doesn't say anything about a special knowledge being granted of it happening. Indeed, I'd say this implies that players generally know of crits. Are the designers honestly going to expect DMs to remember that this one player has this particular item and so go out if their way to declare crits seen by the player within 30ft of them? That's tall order, I think. Generally, abilities etc rely on the player to keep track of them and declare them, not the DM. Instead, I think there is an unwritten assumption that DMs declare crits or otherwise communicate them to the players.
Personally, I roll hidden. Mostly because it means that I can tweak things without the players feeling robbed, but also I think it is implied that it's intended due to the DM screen (if others roll openly, then this is isn't a criticism, it's just my reasoning for my table, play however you wish). However, I do declare crits, for two reasons - one in-game and one meta. The meta reason is so that players know I'm playing fair. If their Gobbo gets an absurdly high damage roll, they know it's just roll of the dice. The in-game reason is that crits represent a solid blow to a vital area - the character would know that it had happened and therefore I communicate it to the players. Of course, the tension that builds as they realise that I'm rolling a second dice doesn't do any harm either!
Personally, I'm reasonably confident that players are intended do know when crits happen - regardless of what item they're holding.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I tell my players what I roll to hit and when I'm rolling against their DC saves I just say whether I succeed or fail (unless it's a really low role for fail, than Im kind of laughing especially depending on what the save is against). I do announce when I roll a nat 20 regardless of what it is for (in combat, if it happens outside of combat it only depends if they find that out because that's mostly rolling during the RP part of the campaign).
I technically roll behind a DM screen most of the time (although based off the table set ups we have it's unnecessary due to how were spread apart and we roll on dice trays to keep the dice off the ground of puppies) and I think announcing the roles is something that is done for fairness sake at my table so people can try to figure out next steps, what can be utilized, etc.
That doesn't mean I judge anyone for running their table a different way or think it's unfair if they don't run a table like the way I run it. It just means that's how I consider things at the table I run.
I roll openly for several reasons, mostly because I am reactive to the rolls, so there are regular “woo hoo I crit”, or “ahh man another 4” type statements. But also it helps the players decide whether to use abilities like shield or gift of the metallic dragon or whatever. Especially for newer players, or when I am running games for groups of people completely new to D&D. It’s just much easier for everyone.
You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
That is utterly dependent on the table, I generally always roll in the open. Not only that but there are a number of magical items that specifically rely on the players knowing if it was a critical hit or not, such as a Guardian Emblem which says - When you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you suffers a critical hit while you’re wearing the armor or wielding the shield that bears the emblem, you can use your reaction to expend 1 charge to turn the critical hit into a normal hit instead. So if you didn't know then you couldn't use this item or any other of the abilities and items.
This Item especially mentions a critical roll. So if you go by that, it means that in all other cases you don't know, as there is no mention of the crit in other spells, abilities, etc..
That's not what I got from the quoted text. It says that when you see a creature suffer one - it doesn't say anything about a special knowledge being granted of it happening. Indeed, I'd say this implies that players generally know of crits. Are the designers honestly going to expect DMs to remember that this one player has this particular item and so go out if their way to declare crits seen by the player within 30ft of them? That's tall order, I think. Generally, abilities etc rely on the player to keep track of them and declare them, not the DM. Instead, I think there is an unwritten assumption that DMs declare crits or otherwise communicate them to the players.
Personally, I roll hidden. Mostly because it means that I can tweak things without the players feeling robbed, but also I think it is implied that it's intended due to the DM screen (if others roll openly, then this is isn't a criticism, it's just my reasoning for my table, play however you wish). However, I do declare crits, for two reasons - one in-game and one meta. The meta reason is so that players know I'm playing fair. If their Gobbo gets an absurdly high damage roll, they know it's just roll of the dice. The in-game reason is that crits represent a solid blow to a vital area - the character would know that it had happened and therefore I communicate it to the players. Of course, the tension that builds as they realise that I'm rolling a second dice doesn't do any harm either!
Personally, I'm reasonably confident that players are intended do know when crits happen - regardless of what item they're holding.
As you look at rulings on things, an inclusion makes the difference. Here in this case crit is included, in all other cases it isn't. And yes, I roll hidden most of the time. I announce hits, wait for reactions, and then assign damage. SB wouldn't be a problem even in the worst case scenario brought up by the doom patrol in this thread.
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You wouldn't be able to cast silvery barbs and disintegrate on the same turn anyway (link).
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HERE.When are you casting a BA spell?
Reactions are independent of that rule. It's only if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action that you can't cast a levelled spell as an Action. You can cast Disintegrate and Silvery Barbs in the same round, no problem.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yes of course it does, it forces the target to reroll and take the lowest. Just like if you have disadvantage. Just because you roll a nat 20 it doesn’t mean you ignore the fact you have disadvantage.
So no one in either campaign I'm running has used this spell yet, although one person has taken it. The more I think about it though I don't really think it's really OP. Especially the way most people thought it would be when it first came out and I think it's also because it is a reaction ability (which it also wouldn't make sense to do it any other way) and depending on who has the spell, what you're facing and that character's capabilities you kind of have to be careful when you use your reaction/what you use your reaction for.
Yeah, this the only thing that this spell does reliably.
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You don't know when a crit is rolled but after the damage is dealt. You only know if an attack hits or misses.
Many DM's roll openly. In such a game, you would know.
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Depends how the DM rolls the dice. Most DMs will tell you when a monster crits.
Yeah, considering the assortment of spells you kind of have to tell players anymore what the monster rolled because of things like Shield, Bend Luck, and so on.
I don’t know what Bend Luck is, but you definitely do not have to tell players what the monster rolled. I certainly don’t.
Some GMs do, and that’s fine, definitely not arguing against that. But the idea that you “have to” is absurd.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
If a participant have abilities that depend on a roll or outcome to be used, it should be informed of it. But game elements may differ from one another on this perspective, for exemple Cutting Word needs to be informed of the roll but not the outcome while the spells Shield or Silvery Bard must be informed of the outcome but not the roll necessarily.
DMs may always decide to be more or less transparent if they wish.
That is utterly dependent on the table, I generally always roll in the open. Not only that but there are a number of magical items that specifically rely on the players knowing if it was a critical hit or not, such as a Guardian Emblem which says - When you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you suffers a critical hit while you’re wearing the armor or wielding the shield that bears the emblem, you can use your reaction to expend 1 charge to turn the critical hit into a normal hit instead. So if you didn't know then you couldn't use this item or any other of the abilities and items.
You are not actually required to do so. It's a significant nerf to shield, and to abilities such as cutting words or bend luck, but absolutely nothing in the rules says you have to do it.
This Item especially mentions a critical roll. So if you go by that, it means that in all other cases you don't know, as there is no mention of the crit in other spells, abilities, etc..
That's not what I got from the quoted text. It says that when you see a creature suffer one - it doesn't say anything about a special knowledge being granted of it happening. Indeed, I'd say this implies that players generally know of crits. Are the designers honestly going to expect DMs to remember that this one player has this particular item and so go out if their way to declare crits seen by the player within 30ft of them? That's tall order, I think. Generally, abilities etc rely on the player to keep track of them and declare them, not the DM. Instead, I think there is an unwritten assumption that DMs declare crits or otherwise communicate them to the players.
Personally, I roll hidden. Mostly because it means that I can tweak things without the players feeling robbed, but also I think it is implied that it's intended due to the DM screen (if others roll openly, then this is isn't a criticism, it's just my reasoning for my table, play however you wish). However, I do declare crits, for two reasons - one in-game and one meta. The meta reason is so that players know I'm playing fair. If their Gobbo gets an absurdly high damage roll, they know it's just roll of the dice. The in-game reason is that crits represent a solid blow to a vital area - the character would know that it had happened and therefore I communicate it to the players. Of course, the tension that builds as they realise that I'm rolling a second dice doesn't do any harm either!
Personally, I'm reasonably confident that players are intended do know when crits happen - regardless of what item they're holding.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I tell my players what I roll to hit and when I'm rolling against their DC saves I just say whether I succeed or fail (unless it's a really low role for fail, than Im kind of laughing especially depending on what the save is against). I do announce when I roll a nat 20 regardless of what it is for (in combat, if it happens outside of combat it only depends if they find that out because that's mostly rolling during the RP part of the campaign).
I technically roll behind a DM screen most of the time (although based off the table set ups we have it's unnecessary due to how were spread apart and we roll on dice trays to keep the dice off the ground of puppies) and I think announcing the roles is something that is done for fairness sake at my table so people can try to figure out next steps, what can be utilized, etc.
That doesn't mean I judge anyone for running their table a different way or think it's unfair if they don't run a table like the way I run it. It just means that's how I consider things at the table I run.
I roll openly for several reasons, mostly because I am reactive to the rolls, so there are regular “woo hoo I crit”, or “ahh man another 4” type statements. But also it helps the players decide whether to use abilities like shield or gift of the metallic dragon or whatever. Especially for newer players, or when I am running games for groups of people completely new to D&D. It’s just much easier for everyone.
As you look at rulings on things, an inclusion makes the difference. Here in this case crit is included, in all other cases it isn't. And yes, I roll hidden most of the time. I announce hits, wait for reactions, and then assign damage. SB wouldn't be a problem even in the worst case scenario brought up by the doom patrol in this thread.