Is it broken in terms of gameplay disruption? Absolutely yes. Interrupting the normal flow of events like this on a regular basis is annoying, and managing the turn sequence gets fuzzier. You're constantly on the lookout for rolls to disrupt, and when you do you're interjecting additional effects mid-resolution, and also then triggering even more additional steps for someone to need to resolve. Is it unbearable? I don't think so, but the "flow" of events is being repeatedly and consistently thrown out of wack.
I hadn't thought of this aspect of it before, but it definitely is a thing. I don't really have an opinion about it yet, I'll be paying attention to it now though when trying to evaluate the spells impact.
Is it broken in terms of gameplay disruption? Absolutely yes. Interrupting the normal flow of events like this on a regular basis is annoying, and managing the turn sequence gets fuzzier. You're constantly on the lookout for rolls to disrupt, and when you do you're interjecting additional effects mid-resolution, and also then triggering even more additional steps for someone to need to resolve. Is it unbearable? I don't think so, but the "flow" of events is being repeatedly and consistently thrown out of wack.
That is the best argument I've seen against this spell (which I haven't seen come up regularly in play, yet). I know that I hate Peace clerics a lot more than Twilight not because they're stronger, but because the constant calling out of bonuses ("Don't forget your d4! Wait, I also gave you bless, so 2d4. No, not you, I only gave you 1d4...") and the need to refresh the ability and remember if it's up or not. It got very disruptive, more than the power level of the ability justified in my opinion. Maybe this will feel the same. I'm not sure, we'll see.
I really agree with you. Status tracking was the worst thing about 4e. More of that is not good because it really bogs things down.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I really agree with you. Status tracking was the worst thing about 4e. More of that is not good because it really bogs things down.
The big reason why status tracking is easier in 5e is because most significant status effects require concentration, so any time they introduce a status effect that doesn't consume concentration it creates a problem.
... But once you actually play with the spell for a while, I think y'all will find that it is not, in fact, all that and a kettle bell.
Just want to report, since this thing got necro'd to heck and back.
I have, in fact, played with Barbs for a while. It has been prepared by my saucy tabaxiwizard in the high-level game I joined on here back in January; I've kept it available in her spells list since I started playing her. I've gotten good use out of it. I've stopped a couple of nasty attacks from landing on vulnerable party members, and I've overturned a save once or twice. I've also cast Barbs and watched it accomplish dick-all, generally more often than I've cast it and gotten lucky. I've also gone for multiple sessions in a row without ever having a worthwhile chance to cast it once. Overall? It has been mostly a nonfactor. A cool trick that occasionally lets me poke the DM, but it hasn't altered the course of the campaign at all, and the DM has never once asked me to remove it. Frankly, the DM's never even brought it up outside of giving a conditional okay for me to playtest it at the start of the campaign.
The fact that after this thread died four months ago, nobody bothered talking about Barbs tells me Barbs is in fact perfectly fine. It stopped being New and Weird and just became a spell. People talk about things that bother them. Incessantly. People can't stop talking about the species ASI things, as the current primo example...but nobody's complaining about Barbs anymore, and they stopped complaining about it awful quick.
I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say 'called it'. Barbs is good. It is not, however, All That and a Kettle Bell.
Honestly? After playing with it for a while I'm less on board with kicking it up to 2nd. Frankly even at first it feels iffy and whiffy, inasmuch as it tends to whiff on me and burn up my spell slot for nothing. Burning a spell slot - yes, even a first-level on my level 13 wizard - for "ehhh...let's see if I can make you be really unlucky" is often not, as the kids say these days, #werth. Far more often than punching down an enemy's save, I've found myself wishing I could use Barbs to somehow punch up an ally's at their moment of need, but barbs doesn't allow that. Not really. As a conscientous wizard player who carries the team's arcane needs on my back so the warlock's freed to do fun flavorful stuff and everybody else can focus on martial romps, I can't be blowing spell slots on Hail Mary passes. Barbs at second level would simply not be worth its cost.
Honestly? After playing with it for a while I'm less on board with kicking it up to 2nd. Frankly even at first it feels iffy and whiffy, inasmuch as it tends to whiff on me and burn up my spell slot for nothing. Burning a spell slot - yes, even a first-level on my level 13 wizard - for "ehhh...let's see if I can make you be really unlucky" is often not, as the kids say these days, #werth. Far more often than punching down an enemy's save, I've found myself wishing I could use Barbs to somehow punch up an ally's at their moment of need, but barbs doesn't allow that. Not really. As a conscientous wizard player who carries the team's arcane needs on my back so the warlock's freed to do fun flavorful stuff and everybody else can focus on martial romps, I can't be blowing spell slots on Hail Mary passes. Barbs at second level would simply not be worth its cost.
I think the fact it's value exponentially gets better at higher levels warrants it but as I said it's not really something the groups I'm in are doing because they are just not taking it as to not create an issue in the first place.
Overall I'm sure each group will handle it different but each is valid in my opinion.
Literally playing it at thirteenth level right now, Optimus. Sundays at either noon or five-thirty, depending on DM schedule. Have been since Feburary-ish when the game kicked into gear. I have the Disintegrate/Barbs combo ready to hand at my fingertips. I don't have Disintegrate prepared at time of writing this post because we were engaging in a gladiatorial exhibition match against another team of adventurers and Disintegrating a coworker was kinna sorta maybe just a twinge not kosher, but I have the combo prepared most days.
I've never cast it. Because anything worth Disintegrating almost universally has a double-digit Dex save bonus, and even with Barbs the odds are much better than even that I'd blow an entire turn and a sixth-level spell slot doing dick-all when I cannot afford to do that. Not as my team's only full-flight caster. The warlock can back me up occasionally, but their goal is generally blasting and CLS. I'm the one nigh-solely responsible for Teh Majicks, and that means making every turn and every spell slot count. Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere - these are the tools I can rely on, and the ones I end up using. When I need to do damage? I upcast Rime's Binding Ice, or I use a transformation spell to give myself round-over-round damage worthy of blowing a spell slot on.
Barbs hasn't been a big deal for me because even with it, I can't trust big-punch save-or-suck spells that fizzle entirely on a save. Does Barbs improve their reliability? Sure. Does it improve their reliability enough? No. Not when your team's asses are hanging in the balance of your every cast.
Honestly? After playing with it for a while I'm less on board with kicking it up to 2nd. Frankly even at first it feels iffy and whiffy, inasmuch as it tends to whiff on me and burn up my spell slot for nothing. Burning a spell slot - yes, even a first-level on my level 13 wizard - for "ehhh...let's see if I can make you be really unlucky" is often not, as the kids say these days, #werth. Far more often than punching down an enemy's save, I've found myself wishing I could use Barbs to somehow punch up an ally's at their moment of need, but barbs doesn't allow that. Not really. As a conscientous wizard player who carries the team's arcane needs on my back so the warlock's freed to do fun flavorful stuff and everybody else can focus on martial romps, I can't be blowing spell slots on Hail Mary passes. Barbs at second level would simply not be worth its cost.
I think the fact it's value exponentially gets better at higher levels warrants it but as I said it's not really something the groups I'm in are doing because they are just not taking it as to not create an issue in the first place.
Overall I'm sure each group will handle it different but each is valid in my opinion.
By your own admission you and your group have not used it at all so I recommend that you try it before making a decision. In actual play, I have not found this spell to be all that reliable regardless of level of the caster.
Honestly? After playing with it for a while I'm less on board with kicking it up to 2nd. Frankly even at first it feels iffy and whiffy, inasmuch as it tends to whiff on me and burn up my spell slot for nothing. Burning a spell slot - yes, even a first-level on my level 13 wizard - for "ehhh...let's see if I can make you be really unlucky" is often not, as the kids say these days, #werth. Far more often than punching down an enemy's save, I've found myself wishing I could use Barbs to somehow punch up an ally's at their moment of need, but barbs doesn't allow that. Not really. As a conscientous wizard player who carries the team's arcane needs on my back so the warlock's freed to do fun flavorful stuff and everybody else can focus on martial romps, I can't be blowing spell slots on Hail Mary passes. Barbs at second level would simply not be worth its cost.
I think the fact it's value exponentially gets better at higher levels warrants it but as I said it's not really something the groups I'm in are doing because they are just not taking it as to not create an issue in the first place.
Overall I'm sure each group will handle it different but each is valid in my opinion.
By your own admission you and your group have not used it at all so I recommend that you try it before making a decision. In actual play, I have not found this spell to be all that reliable regardless of level of the caster.
I am saying that as both a Player and a DM.
We did use it as I mentioned but quickly retracted
Overall I'm not worried about it too much either way.
Literally playing it at thirteenth level right now, Optimus. Sundays at either noon or five-thirty, depending on DM schedule. Have been since Feburary-ish when the game kicked into gear. I have the Disintegrate/Barbs combo ready to hand at my fingertips. I don't have Disintegrate prepared at time of writing this post because we were engaging in a gladiatorial exhibition match against another team of adventurers and Disintegrating a coworker was kinna sorta maybe just a twinge not kosher, but I have the combo prepared most days.
I've never cast it. Because anything worth Disintegrating almost universally has a double-digit Dex save bonus, and even with Barbs the odds are much better than even that I'd blow an entire turn and a sixth-level spell slot doing dick-all when I cannot afford to do that. Not as my team's only full-flight caster. The warlock can back me up occasionally, but their goal is generally blasting and CLS. I'm the one nigh-solely responsible for Teh Majicks, and that means making every turn and every spell slot count. Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere - these are the tools I can rely on, and the ones I end up using. When I need to do damage? I upcast Rime's Binding Ice, or I use a transformation spell to give myself round-over-round damage worthy of blowing a spell slot on.
Barbs hasn't been a big deal for me because even with it, I can't trust big-punch save-or-suck spells that fizzle entirely on a save. Does Barbs improve their reliability? Sure. Does it improve their reliability enough? No. Not when your team's asses are hanging in the balance of your every cast.
Fair! Glad you are finding the spell within balance within your group.
Another thing that Silvery Barbs can do that is a somewhat rare ability in 5e is the ability to negate an enemy's critical hit. The only other things that I can think of that can do such a thing is Runic Shield, Sentinel at Death's Door, and Adamantine Armor. The former two are subclass features that are 6th level or higher and the latter is a magic item.
This 1st level spell can do that AND give you or an ally advantage on your next roll on top of that. Not to mention, the spell then also has versatility beyond that application (so it is not as limited to only affecting one type of roll like Sentinel at Death's Door and the effect of the armor).
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
Another thing that Silvery Barbs can do that is a somewhat rare ability in 5e is the ability to negate an enemy's critical hit. The only other things that I can think of that can do such a thing is Runic Shield, Sentinel at Death's Door, and Adamantine Armor. The former two are subclass features that are 6th level or higher and the latter is a magic item.
This 1st level spell can do that AND give you or an ally advantage on your next roll on top of that. Not to mention, the spell then also has versatility beyond that application (so it is not as limited to only affecting one type of roll like Sentinel at Death's Door and the effect of the armor).
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
And that brings us back full circle, this does not work.
I think that a lot of things in Strixhaven are really overpowered, and Silvery Barbs is no exeption. It is great to be able to interefer with your enemies roles, esspecially for such a low level spell.
It does scale very well, but at low levels, you can only do it a few times.
Overall though, this spell is OP.
Edit: As others have suggested, this spell could be fixed (I think) if they just made it second level.
I hadn't thought of this aspect of it before, but it definitely is a thing. I don't really have an opinion about it yet, I'll be paying attention to it now though when trying to evaluate the spells impact.
That is the best argument I've seen against this spell (which I haven't seen come up regularly in play, yet). I know that I hate Peace clerics a lot more than Twilight not because they're stronger, but because the constant calling out of bonuses ("Don't forget your d4! Wait, I also gave you bless, so 2d4. No, not you, I only gave you 1d4...") and the need to refresh the ability and remember if it's up or not. It got very disruptive, more than the power level of the ability justified in my opinion. Maybe this will feel the same. I'm not sure, we'll see.
I really agree with you. Status tracking was the worst thing about 4e. More of that is not good because it really bogs things down.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The big reason why status tracking is easier in 5e is because most significant status effects require concentration, so any time they introduce a status effect that doesn't consume concentration it creates a problem.
I notice most of the people who are chomping at the bit to try this out are players not DMs.
It is telling in itself.
I have a party with two magic casters both picked up Silvery Barbs AND Banishment. So yeah, dwell on that for a bit.
I am a DM. A number of other people here who wanted to try it out do both.
Dwell on that for a bit.
Yeah, DM and Player here too.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Read the sig.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Just want to report, since this thing got necro'd to heck and back.
I have, in fact, played with Barbs for a while. It has been prepared by my saucy tabaxi wizard in the high-level game I joined on here back in January; I've kept it available in her spells list since I started playing her. I've gotten good use out of it. I've stopped a couple of nasty attacks from landing on vulnerable party members, and I've overturned a save once or twice. I've also cast Barbs and watched it accomplish dick-all, generally more often than I've cast it and gotten lucky. I've also gone for multiple sessions in a row without ever having a worthwhile chance to cast it once. Overall? It has been mostly a nonfactor. A cool trick that occasionally lets me poke the DM, but it hasn't altered the course of the campaign at all, and the DM has never once asked me to remove it. Frankly, the DM's never even brought it up outside of giving a conditional okay for me to playtest it at the start of the campaign.
The fact that after this thread died four months ago, nobody bothered talking about Barbs tells me Barbs is in fact perfectly fine. It stopped being New and Weird and just became a spell. People talk about things that bother them. Incessantly. People can't stop talking about the species ASI things, as the current primo example...but nobody's complaining about Barbs anymore, and they stopped complaining about it awful quick.
I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say 'called it'. Barbs is good. It is not, however, All That and a Kettle Bell.
Please do not contact or message me.
Same here, I used it as a player. I asked the DM if it bothered her. All of us at the table didn't see any problems with it after playing with it.
I've had the opposite experience as I've only played with it a few times but each time the DM didn't really care for it.
It's been like old Yuan-Ti since then as players don't pick it because they don't want to have the inevitable argument about it.
I did suggest that we go with it as a 2nd level but it seemed nobody really missed it at all anyway so it's just been... gone.
Honestly? After playing with it for a while I'm less on board with kicking it up to 2nd. Frankly even at first it feels iffy and whiffy, inasmuch as it tends to whiff on me and burn up my spell slot for nothing. Burning a spell slot - yes, even a first-level on my level 13 wizard - for "ehhh...let's see if I can make you be really unlucky" is often not, as the kids say these days, #werth. Far more often than punching down an enemy's save, I've found myself wishing I could use Barbs to somehow punch up an ally's at their moment of need, but barbs doesn't allow that. Not really. As a conscientous wizard player who carries the team's arcane needs on my back so the warlock's freed to do fun flavorful stuff and everybody else can focus on martial romps, I can't be blowing spell slots on Hail Mary passes. Barbs at second level would simply not be worth its cost.
Please do not contact or message me.
I think the fact it's value exponentially gets better at higher levels warrants it but as I said it's not really something the groups I'm in are doing because they are just not taking it as to not create an issue in the first place.
Overall I'm sure each group will handle it different but each is valid in my opinion.
Literally playing it at thirteenth level right now, Optimus. Sundays at either noon or five-thirty, depending on DM schedule. Have been since Feburary-ish when the game kicked into gear. I have the Disintegrate/Barbs combo ready to hand at my fingertips. I don't have Disintegrate prepared at time of writing this post because we were engaging in a gladiatorial exhibition match against another team of adventurers and Disintegrating a coworker was kinna sorta maybe just a twinge not kosher, but I have the combo prepared most days.
I've never cast it. Because anything worth Disintegrating almost universally has a double-digit Dex save bonus, and even with Barbs the odds are much better than even that I'd blow an entire turn and a sixth-level spell slot doing dick-all when I cannot afford to do that. Not as my team's only full-flight caster. The warlock can back me up occasionally, but their goal is generally blasting and CLS. I'm the one nigh-solely responsible for Teh Majicks, and that means making every turn and every spell slot count. Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere - these are the tools I can rely on, and the ones I end up using. When I need to do damage? I upcast Rime's Binding Ice, or I use a transformation spell to give myself round-over-round damage worthy of blowing a spell slot on.
Barbs hasn't been a big deal for me because even with it, I can't trust big-punch save-or-suck spells that fizzle entirely on a save. Does Barbs improve their reliability? Sure. Does it improve their reliability enough? No. Not when your team's asses are hanging in the balance of your every cast.
Please do not contact or message me.
By your own admission you and your group have not used it at all so I recommend that you try it before making a decision. In actual play, I have not found this spell to be all that reliable regardless of level of the caster.
I am saying that as both a Player and a DM.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
We did use it as I mentioned but quickly retracted
Overall I'm not worried about it too much either way.
Fair! Glad you are finding the spell within balance within your group.
This is absolutely what I use it for more often than not. Getting critted by a fire giant is far less scary when someone drops this spell.
And that brings us back full circle, this does not work.
I think that a lot of things in Strixhaven are really overpowered, and Silvery Barbs is no exeption. It is great to be able to interefer with your enemies roles, esspecially for such a low level spell.
It does scale very well, but at low levels, you can only do it a few times.
Overall though, this spell is OP.
Edit: As others have suggested, this spell could be fixed (I think) if they just made it second level.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.