I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Yup, In the build where I thought Portent worked, portent was just one of the many things it could do, and it relied a lot on making use of the action economy, which Barbs is awesome for.
As you said, you can easily use 3 spells in a round with Barbs, as long as one is a cantrip. Or you ca do what I did and cast 2 spells per round, + nimble escape as the bonus action.
Either way, one thing about Silvery Barbs that is undeniable is that it's awesome to be able to use it for your reaction and the other stuff for your actions & bonus actions.
I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
No, that's incorrect. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, leveled or not, the Action spell you cast can only be a Cantrip of 1 Action. You're flipping the rule a little.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
No, that's incorrect. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, leveled or not, the Action spell you cast can only be a Cantrip of 1 Action. You're flipping the rule a little.
Oops, I misread Silver as having written firebolt not fireball, my mistake. However, it is still. possible to cast three spells in one turn, as long as two are cantrips.
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I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
No, that's incorrect. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, leveled or not, the Action spell you cast can only be a Cantrip of 1 Action. You're flipping the rule a little.
Oops, I misread Silver as having written firebolt not fireball, my mistake. However, it is still. possible to cast three spells in one turn, as long as two are cantrips.
No, you can’t cast a reaction spell in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell. You have to wait until the turn is over.
I just realized that with silvery barbs, you could cast fireball as an action, silvery as a reaction, and then a bonus action spell.
3 spells in one turn
Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
No, that's incorrect. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, leveled or not, the Action spell you cast can only be a Cantrip of 1 Action. You're flipping the rule a little.
Oops, I misread Silver as having written firebolt not fireball, my mistake. However, it is still. possible to cast three spells in one turn, as long as two are cantrips.
No, you can’t cast a reaction spell in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell. You have to wait until the turn is over.
Fair, I reread the rules on this and I think you're right. However, just because you can't use Silvery Barbs to cast three spells in one turn doesn't mean it's not an awesome spell. It's great at making use of the action economy and would make a lot more sense as an L2 spell rather than an L1 spell.
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Sure but those high level enemies, which often have high stats and can easily succeed even with a reroll, aren't going to be standing there doing nothing. most also get legendary actions too.
Mage casts spells Enemy resists Mage uses reaction for the Silvery barbs Enemy rerolls, fails and uses legendary resistance End of mage turn, enemy uses legendary action to bring some hurt to mage Enemy turn, they focus on the mage that made them use their LR Squishy mage be dead in no time. Silver barbs cant save that mage.
So again, Useful? Very. Broken? Nah.
You forget silvery barbs hits Attack roles as well, so it can at least help delay the mages death.
Sure but those high level enemies, which often have high stats and can easily succeed even with a reroll, aren't going to be standing there doing nothing. most also get legendary actions too.
Mage casts spells Enemy resists Mage uses reaction for the Silvery barbs Enemy rerolls, fails and uses legendary resistance End of mage turn, enemy uses legendary action to bring some hurt to mage Enemy turn, they focus on the mage that made them use their LR Squishy mage be dead in no time. Silver barbs cant save that mage.
So again, Useful? Very. Broken? Nah.
You forget silvery barbs hits Attack roles as well, so it can at least help delay the mages death.
I agree with @Sweet_JizzOf_God. Also, in the original post in that quote chain, one first level spell slot making a high-level monster expend a use of legendary resistance, when otherwise nothing else would've happened, is still really good value.
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If that's the case, is Silvery barbs truly so busted as all that?
No.
Ok, let's look at this logically, yes it allows a player to use a 1st level spell to counter a D20 roll. It does not stop what the d20 is for, and as a 1st level spell it is restricted by the amount of spell slots the player has. It also has no up cast bonus, so using it as a 2nd level or higher spell wastes spell potential. Also as a reaction, it can only be used once per turn, per player with it. It also doesn't stop AOE attacks or environmental dangers. As a DM, I never attack with just one monster, and if there is a caster, I usually have counters for the caster in the monster groups I pick. As a DM I prepare the events a head of time, taking in consideration of what a player might be able to do in any engagement. Silvery Bards, sure, lots of AOE, lots of Legendary Actions, resistances, and other tools that counter the counter. Hells, I will put a NPC caster with counterspell in a large important fight just to counter these things. No but with more words.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Which is more specific, Silvery Barbs or the Lucky Feat? Because what if you SB'ed a partymate with Lucky, who then turns it into choose the best out of three d20's and then you also give Advantage to another partymate?
Edit: Never mind, the timing doesn't work out like that. Lucky happens before a success, SB happens after a success. I think I pointed that out to someone before and just forgot.
Edit: Never mind, the timing doesn't work out like that. Lucky happens before a success, SB happens after a success. I think I pointed that out to someone before and just forgot.
Lucky is in this weird space where it's after rolling but before finding out if you succeed. Which is fairly problematic because frequently you immediately know whether a given roll will succeed.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Actually it only breaks down because you are forgetting a part of the spell, which should have a massive effect on the outcome of these situations. Silvery Barbs makes the target glow with sparkly silvery light (which gives the to hit advantage on next hit, or until the end of the casters next turn.) So if not in combat, and you caster uses it to make a NPC fail a roll, it would be obvious to everyone that your caster did this as the NPC will glow for 6 seconds, and your caster had to verbalize "Silvery Barbs" as it has a Verbal component.
Sure they failed the Social roll, but now your Caster needs to make a social roll at disadvantage for doing that. Or else the NPC will auto succeed now.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Actually it only breaks down because you are forgetting a part of the spell, which should have a massive effect on the outcome of these situations. Silvery Barbs makes the target glow with sparkly silvery light (which gives the to hit advantage on next hit, or until the end of the casters next turn.) So if not in combat, and you caster uses it to make a NPC fail a roll, it would be obvious to everyone that your caster did this as the NPC will glow for 6 seconds, and your caster had to verbalize "Silvery Barbs" as it has a Verbal component.
Sure they failed the Social roll, but now your Caster needs to make a social roll at disadvantage for doing that. Or else the NPC will auto succeed now.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Actually it only breaks down because you are forgetting a part of the spell, which should have a massive effect on the outcome of these situations. Silvery Barbs makes the target glow with sparkly silvery light (which gives the to hit advantage on next hit, or until the end of the casters next turn.) So if not in combat, and you caster uses it to make a NPC fail a roll, it would be obvious to everyone that your caster did this as the NPC will glow for 6 seconds, and your caster had to verbalize "Silvery Barbs" as it has a Verbal component.
Sure they failed the Social roll, but now your Caster needs to make a social roll at disadvantage for doing that. Or else the NPC will auto succeed now.
I think you're mistaking Silvery Barbs for Guiding Bolt.
Nope, it's in the fluff and rules of D&D, all spells in RP have an effect, unless you take subclasses or feats that hide the effect you will always out yourself when casting in a social situations. A player can choose how these spell effect look and feel, but they always happen (except in the aforementioned took a feat or subclass). A good DM is always ensures the table remembers this.
there is a second way to do it, but it takes extra effort, start in stealth and/or deception to make it look like the spell came from someone else.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Actually it only breaks down because you are forgetting a part of the spell, which should have a massive effect on the outcome of these situations. Silvery Barbs makes the target glow with sparkly silvery light (which gives the to hit advantage on next hit, or until the end of the casters next turn.) So if not in combat, and you caster uses it to make a NPC fail a roll, it would be obvious to everyone that your caster did this as the NPC will glow for 6 seconds, and your caster had to verbalize "Silvery Barbs" as it has a Verbal component.
Sure they failed the Social roll, but now your Caster needs to make a social roll at disadvantage for doing that. Or else the NPC will auto succeed now.
Not really, it doesn't specify how sparkly the light is, and anyways the one type of roll that that specific effect could possibly interfere with would be stealth checks. Otherwise it would just be a, "Why is that guy shiny? Oh it's gone now."
Nope, it's in the fluff and rules of D&D, all spells in RP have an effect, unless you take subclasses or feats that hide the effect you will always out yourself when casting in a social situations. A player can choose how these spell effect look and feel, but they always happen (except in the aforementioned took a feat or subclass). A good DM is always ensures the table remembers this.
Do you always know when you’re under the effect of a spell?
You’re aware that a spell is affecting you if it has a perceptible effect or if its text says you’re aware of it (see PHB , under “Targets”). Most spells are obvious. For example, fireball burns you, cure wounds heals you, and command forces you to suddenly do something you didn’t intend. Certain spells are more subtle, yet you become aware of the spell at a time specified in the spell’s description. Charm person and detect thoughts are examples of such spells.
Some spells are so subtle that you might not know you were ever under their effects. A prime example of that sort of spell is suggestion. Assuming you failed to notice the spellcaster casting the spell, you might simply remember the caster saying, “The treasure you’re looking for isn’t here. Go look for it in the room at the top of the next tower.” You failed your saving throw, and off you went to the other tower, thinking it was your idea to go there. You and your companions might deduce that you were beguiled if evidence of the spell is found. It’s ultimately up to the DM whether you discover the presence of inconspicuous spells. Discovery usually comes through the use of skills like Arcana, Investigation, Insight, and Perception or through spells like detect magic.
Because that kind of says that the perceptibility of each spell is one a case by case basis with some being very noticeable, and others not being noticeable at all.
Nope, it's in the fluff and rules of D&D, all spells in RP have an effect, unless you take subclasses or feats that hide the effect you will always out yourself when casting in a social situations. A player can choose how these spell effect look and feel, but they always happen (except in the aforementioned took a feat or subclass). A good DM is always ensures the table remembers this.
Do you always know when you’re under the effect of a spell?
You’re aware that a spell is affecting you if it has a perceptible effect or if its text says you’re aware of it (see PHB , under “Targets”). Most spells are obvious. For example, fireball burns you, cure wounds heals you, and command forces you to suddenly do something you didn’t intend. Certain spells are more subtle, yet you become aware of the spell at a time specified in the spell’s description. Charm person and detect thoughts are examples of such spells.
Some spells are so subtle that you might not know you were ever under their effects. A prime example of that sort of spell is suggestion. Assuming you failed to notice the spellcaster casting the spell, you might simply remember the caster saying, “The treasure you’re looking for isn’t here. Go look for it in the room at the top of the next tower.” You failed your saving throw, and off you went to the other tower, thinking it was your idea to go there. You and your companions might deduce that you were beguiled if evidence of the spell is found. It’s ultimately up to the DM whether you discover the presence of inconspicuous spells. Discovery usually comes through the use of skills like Arcana, Investigation, Insight, and Perception or through spells like detect magic.
Because that kind of says that the perceptibility of each spell is one a case by case basis with some being very noticeable, and others not being noticeable at all.
Yes Some spells are by nature stealthy, but unless the rules state specifically that it is an undetectable spell, unless you take efforts to hide the casting of the spell, everyone in the room will notice you cast it. It's like when you are in a room with people who are religiously apposed to Bacon, and Vegans and you start to chew on bacon jerky. It just gets seen. As a DM I will always rule against the player who doesn't RP out a way to hide it, and any good DM should do the same. Silvery Barbs is a good spell, but it's not busted, not even in social situations.
Now a smart player, using it, and taking the effort to hide their spell castings, but in the end I reward smart gameplay, not meme gameplay.
edit:
Also the All spells are seen come from 1st edition, and are a part of the lore, and the basic concept of how magic works in D&D. Sometimes the spell causes sparkles, sometimes it causes sparkles on the caster, or the target, sometimes makes a big loud Knock when working (See Knock). It's always been a balance point for magic, that unless you hide magic, it is very noticeably magic.
Yup, In the build where I thought Portent worked, portent was just one of the many things it could do, and it relied a lot on making use of the action economy, which Barbs is awesome for.
As you said, you can easily use 3 spells in a round with Barbs, as long as one is a cantrip. Or you ca do what I did and cast 2 spells per round, + nimble escape as the bonus action.
Either way, one thing about Silvery Barbs that is undeniable is that it's awesome to be able to use it for your reaction and the other stuff for your actions & bonus actions.
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HERE.Nope. Casting a spell as a bonus action means you cannot cast any other spells on the same turn other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, which excludes silvery barbs. The only way of casting three spells in one turn is action surge (either a bonus action spell and then two cantrips, or two standard action spells and a reaction).
The way ShhinySilver phrased it, he is correct. As long as the bonus action spell is not "leveled", it is within the rules on page 202 of The Players Handbook.
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HERE.No, that's incorrect. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, leveled or not, the Action spell you cast can only be a Cantrip of 1 Action. You're flipping the rule a little.
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Oops, I misread Silver as having written firebolt not fireball, my mistake. However, it is still. possible to cast three spells in one turn, as long as two are cantrips.
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HERE.No, you can’t cast a reaction spell in the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell. You have to wait until the turn is over.
Fair, I reread the rules on this and I think you're right. However, just because you can't use Silvery Barbs to cast three spells in one turn doesn't mean it's not an awesome spell. It's great at making use of the action economy and would make a lot more sense as an L2 spell rather than an L1 spell.
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HERE.You forget silvery barbs hits Attack roles as well, so it can at least help delay the mages death.
I agree with @Sweet_JizzOf_God. Also, in the original post in that quote chain, one first level spell slot making a high-level monster expend a use of legendary resistance, when otherwise nothing else would've happened, is still really good value.
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HERE.No.
Ok, let's look at this logically, yes it allows a player to use a 1st level spell to counter a D20 roll. It does not stop what the d20 is for, and as a 1st level spell it is restricted by the amount of spell slots the player has. It also has no up cast bonus, so using it as a 2nd level or higher spell wastes spell potential. Also as a reaction, it can only be used once per turn, per player with it. It also doesn't stop AOE attacks or environmental dangers. As a DM, I never attack with just one monster, and if there is a caster, I usually have counters for the caster in the monster groups I pick. As a DM I prepare the events a head of time, taking in consideration of what a player might be able to do in any engagement. Silvery Bards, sure, lots of AOE, lots of Legendary Actions, resistances, and other tools that counter the counter. Hells, I will put a NPC caster with counterspell in a large important fight just to counter these things. No but with more words.
It is a good spell but the issue with your description is you focus on combat. My experience is players us it for anything other then in combat, I have seen a player cast it, willingly, on the high stealth rogue so they can then use it to buff the disadvantaged plate armor cleric for a stealth check, I have seen them use it to force an npc to re roll a social roll, maybe deception, or a charisma check to try and sway an argument.
This is where comparing it to Farie Fire or Shield breaks down, they have a very clear purpose silvery barbs has so many different ways it can be utilised any time any character rolls a dice.
Which is more specific, Silvery Barbs or the Lucky Feat? Because what if you SB'ed a partymate with Lucky, who then turns it into choose the best out of three d20's and then you also give Advantage to another partymate?
Edit: Never mind, the timing doesn't work out like that. Lucky happens before a success, SB happens after a success. I think I pointed that out to someone before and just forgot.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Lucky is in this weird space where it's after rolling but before finding out if you succeed. Which is fairly problematic because frequently you immediately know whether a given roll will succeed.
Actually it only breaks down because you are forgetting a part of the spell, which should have a massive effect on the outcome of these situations. Silvery Barbs makes the target glow with sparkly silvery light (which gives the to hit advantage on next hit, or until the end of the casters next turn.) So if not in combat, and you caster uses it to make a NPC fail a roll, it would be obvious to everyone that your caster did this as the NPC will glow for 6 seconds, and your caster had to verbalize "Silvery Barbs" as it has a Verbal component.
Sure they failed the Social roll, but now your Caster needs to make a social roll at disadvantage for doing that. Or else the NPC will auto succeed now.
I think you're mistaking Silvery Barbs for Guiding Bolt.
Canto alla vita
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Nope, it's in the fluff and rules of D&D, all spells in RP have an effect, unless you take subclasses or feats that hide the effect you will always out yourself when casting in a social situations. A player can choose how these spell effect look and feel, but they always happen (except in the aforementioned took a feat or subclass). A good DM is always ensures the table remembers this.
there is a second way to do it, but it takes extra effort, start in stealth and/or deception to make it look like the spell came from someone else.
Not really, it doesn't specify how sparkly the light is, and anyways the one type of roll that that specific effect could possibly interfere with would be stealth checks. Otherwise it would just be a, "Why is that guy shiny? Oh it's gone now."
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HERE.The spell description doesn’t mention any light at all. What are you even talking about?
Are you referring to this advice from the Sage Advice Compendium:
Because that kind of says that the perceptibility of each spell is one a case by case basis with some being very noticeable, and others not being noticeable at all.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yes Some spells are by nature stealthy, but unless the rules state specifically that it is an undetectable spell, unless you take efforts to hide the casting of the spell, everyone in the room will notice you cast it. It's like when you are in a room with people who are religiously apposed to Bacon, and Vegans and you start to chew on bacon jerky. It just gets seen. As a DM I will always rule against the player who doesn't RP out a way to hide it, and any good DM should do the same. Silvery Barbs is a good spell, but it's not busted, not even in social situations.
Now a smart player, using it, and taking the effort to hide their spell castings, but in the end I reward smart gameplay, not meme gameplay.
edit:
Also the All spells are seen come from 1st edition, and are a part of the lore, and the basic concept of how magic works in D&D. Sometimes the spell causes sparkles, sometimes it causes sparkles on the caster, or the target, sometimes makes a big loud Knock when working (See Knock). It's always been a balance point for magic, that unless you hide magic, it is very noticeably magic.