Overall I think the major concern is that if you pre-order and the book ends up being errata and others don't have to pay for the same content as it is updated automatically (as was done with the examples of artificer and Bladesinger) then you can't get a refund per their policy and paid for nothing.
Some think it's not providing enough information to make an informed purchase which could be illegal in some countries.
Also people are upset about the lack of communication from DDB staff in general as there is sufficient evidence to suggest staff are not routinely engaging the community. This comes in the form of lack of posts on the forum, lack of discord activity, and cancellation of Dev Talks. Even the other social media posts are majority marketing and non-business related chatter.
These combined has seemingly angered a likely minority of total users but more than likely power users of the platform.
With books and subscriptions you are looking at close to a $800 worth of investment into the platform with people looking for answers to what they view as very simple questions about the product before purchasing.
I tried my best to make it about objective information but let me know where I could be more neutral to provide better context.
These are completely different versions and therefore are in another book. Therefore you purchase it again. It makes sense that if you want new content you have to buy it.
Except the couple of times in the past that wasn't true and WotC said "these are errata and they become the new official version that replaces the old version - you don't have to pay for it but you can't opt out either", thereby setting precedent and creating an expectation. Lest we forget, the automatic updates on DDB are promoted as a feature, as an advantage to having a digital ruleset. WotC now likely blurring the lines and changing the concept of errata they created and pushed themselves doesn't change that.
MMM isn't errata however. And as I saw you've shown yourself there's been examples of DDB being inconsistent with how they treat new book content. Had SCAG but not TCoE? F*ck you, bladesinger's elf requirement is gone from your character builder (whether or not many folks liked that change is besides the point here btw). FToD put out new versions of the dragonborn! Oh the PHB version is still here. ERftLW gave us a new class! Woo! Oh, TCoE reprinted it with changes and it overrid my version even though I didn't buy TCoE.
Either way, my point was that this is entirely different content. Not just mere errata. If it was just mere errata, we would've gotten this trash content for free last year. We would've gotten it with the recent errata to VGtM. And because it is entirely different content, it makes sense that you have to pay for it. Contesting the point that somehow Fantasy Grounds saying "you want it, you buy it" is unfair.
Overall I think the major concern is that if you pre-order and the book ends up being errata and others don't have to pay for the same content as it is updated automatically (as was done with the examples of artificer and Bladesinger) then you can't get a refund per their policy and paid for nothing.
Some think it's not providing enough information to make an informed purchase which could be illegal in some countries.
Also people are upset about the lack of communication from DDB staff in general as there is sufficient evidence to suggest staff are not routinely engaging the community. This comes in the form of lack of posts on the forum, lack of discord activity, and cancellation of Dev Talks. Even the other social media posts are majority marketing and non-business related chatter.
These combined has seemingly angered a likely minority of total users but more than likely power users of the platform.
With books and subscriptions you are looking at close to a $800 worth of investment into the platform with people looking for answers to what they view as very simple questions about the product before purchasing.
I tried my best to make it about objective information but let me know where I could be more neutral to provide better context.
Some notes: the high, high, HIGH majority of the folks in this thread at least have stated that their issue is with the potential of having DDB override their previously purchased content with entirely different versions from this book.
If you meant this post to be a summary of the whole situation, including criticism from places OUTSIDE this thread instead of having it be a summary of THIS thread, then I would say my above description would still be likely to be the main point of discontent, but I am way more unsure. The folks at least in the comment section of DDB's trailer for MMM seem to be more concerned with having to "pay for updates" if they have any discontent at all. (This is just an example)
You do not know this. You are arguing it, but you do not know this.
As much as I don't know whether we live in a simulation or not.
It would be labeled as errata if it was errata. If WotC and DDB then go and act as if it is errata once it comes out, then they were lying to their customers and not advertising it correctly. And going against their precedent of giving out errata for free.
You do not know this. You are arguing it, but you do not know this.
As much as I don't know whether we live in a simulation or not.
It would be labeled as errata if it was errata. If WotC and DDB then go and act as if it is errata once it comes out, then they were lying to their customers and not advertising it correctly. And going against their precedent of giving out errata for free.
It's been advertised as an update. All errata are technically updates, but not all updates are errata. There's enough ambiguity that it would be nice if they just told which it was.
You'll almost certainly be told what we've been told already. 'We're working on it. I know that's a lame answer. But it is what it is.'
Otherwise, I suspect they would have announced it already. But who knows, maybe they are just crossing t's and dotting i's this morning. I wouldn't bet on it though. These things always take longer than it seems like they should from the outside.
Overall I think the major concern is that if you pre-order and the book ends up being errata and others don't have to pay for the same content as it is updated automatically (as was done with the examples of artificer and Bladesinger) then you can't get a refund per their policy and paid for nothing.
Some think it's not providing enough information to make an informed purchase which could be illegal in some countries.
Also people are upset about the lack of communication from DDB staff in general as there is sufficient evidence to suggest staff are not routinely engaging the community. This comes in the form of lack of posts on the forum, lack of discord activity, and cancellation of Dev Talks. Even the other social media posts are majority marketing and non-business related chatter.
These combined has seemingly angered a likely minority of total users but more than likely power users of the platform.
With books and subscriptions you are looking at close to a $800 worth of investment into the platform with people looking for answers to what they view as very simple questions about the product before purchasing.
I tried my best to make it about objective information but let me know where I could be more neutral to provide better context.
Some notes: the high, high, HIGH majority of the folks in this thread at least have stated that their issue is with the potential of having DDB override their previously purchased content with entirely different versions from this book.
If you meant this post to be a summary of the whole situation, including criticism from places OUTSIDE this thread instead of having it be a summary of THIS thread, then I would say my above description would still be likely to be the main point of discontent, but I am way more unsure. The folks at least in the comment section of DDB's trailer for MMM seem to be more concerned with having to "pay for updates" if they have any discontent at all. (This is just an example)
Overall I think the major concern is that if you pre-order and the book ends up being errata and others don't have to pay for the same content as it is updated automatically (as was done with the examples of artificer and Bladesinger) then you can't get a refund per their policy and paid for nothing.
Some think it's not providing enough information to make an informed purchase which could be illegal in some countries.
Also people are upset about the lack of communication from DDB staff in general as there is sufficient evidence to suggest staff are not routinely engaging the community. This comes in the form of lack of posts on the forum, lack of discord activity, and cancellation of Dev Talks. Even the other social media posts are majority marketing and non-business related chatter.
These combined has seemingly angered a likely minority of total users but more than likely power users of the platform.
With books and subscriptions you are looking at close to a $800 worth of investment into the platform with people looking for answers to what they view as very simple questions about the product before purchasing.
I tried my best to make it about objective information but let me know where I could be more neutral to provide better context.
Some notes: the high, high, HIGH majority of the folks in this thread at least have stated that their issue is with the potential of having DDB override their previously purchased content with entirely different versions from this book.
If you meant this post to be a summary of the whole situation, including criticism from places OUTSIDE this thread instead of having it be a summary of THIS thread, then I would say my above description would still be likely to be the main point of discontent, but I am way more unsure. The folks at least in the comment section of DDB's trailer for MMM seem to be more concerned with having to "pay for updates" if they have any discontent at all. (This is just an example)
Other than that, pretty spot on.
I am one of those who DOES NOT WANT the new changes. I don't want to lose the existing races from the character builder, and I don't want the new monster stats. I paid for X I want to use X.
This is not errata, it is new versions of old things, not corrections of existing things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Some notes: the high, high, HIGH majority of the folks in this thread at least have stated that their issue is with the potential of having DDB override their previously purchased content with entirely different versions from this book.
I'm sure there will be differences. Entirely different though? I'm just as sure everything will still be very recognizeable and familiar. It's not like scrapping the roleplaying suggestions or absolute alignment for beholders made any difference whatsoever to the species, after all...
That said, it appears these fears can now officially be put to rest. Whether anyone considers that the right call or the wrong one aside, at least we can move past that already. Good thing too, I was planning to set aside some time for the Tal'Dorei Reborn book that arrived in the mail today rather than to reiterate over and over again that both sides have a valid point and that it's unfortunate those points are irreconcilable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Overall I think the major concern is that if you pre-order and the book ends up being errata and others don't have to pay for the same content as it is updated automatically (as was done with the examples of artificer and Bladesinger) then you can't get a refund per their policy and paid for nothing.
Some think it's not providing enough information to make an informed purchase which could be illegal in some countries.
Also people are upset about the lack of communication from DDB staff in general as there is sufficient evidence to suggest staff are not routinely engaging the community. This comes in the form of lack of posts on the forum, lack of discord activity, and cancellation of Dev Talks. Even the other social media posts are majority marketing and non-business related chatter.
These combined has seemingly angered a likely minority of total users but more than likely power users of the platform.
With books and subscriptions you are looking at close to a $800 worth of investment into the platform with people looking for answers to what they view as very simple questions about the product before purchasing.
I tried my best to make it about objective information but let me know where I could be more neutral to provide better context.
MMM isn't errata however. And as I saw you've shown yourself there's been examples of DDB being inconsistent with how they treat new book content. Had SCAG but not TCoE? F*ck you, bladesinger's elf requirement is gone from your character builder (whether or not many folks liked that change is besides the point here btw). FToD put out new versions of the dragonborn! Oh the PHB version is still here. ERftLW gave us a new class! Woo! Oh, TCoE reprinted it with changes and it overrid my version even though I didn't buy TCoE.
Either way, my point was that this is entirely different content. Not just mere errata. If it was just mere errata, we would've gotten this trash content for free last year. We would've gotten it with the recent errata to VGtM. And because it is entirely different content, it makes sense that you have to pay for it. Contesting the point that somehow Fantasy Grounds saying "you want it, you buy it" is unfair.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
You do not know this. You are arguing it, but you do not know this.
Some notes: the high, high, HIGH majority of the folks in this thread at least have stated that their issue is with the potential of having DDB override their previously purchased content with entirely different versions from this book.
If you meant this post to be a summary of the whole situation, including criticism from places OUTSIDE this thread instead of having it be a summary of THIS thread, then I would say my above description would still be likely to be the main point of discontent, but I am way more unsure. The folks at least in the comment section of DDB's trailer for MMM seem to be more concerned with having to "pay for updates" if they have any discontent at all. (This is just an example)
Other than that, pretty spot on.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
As much as I don't know whether we live in a simulation or not.
It would be labeled as errata if it was errata. If WotC and DDB then go and act as if it is errata once it comes out, then they were lying to their customers and not advertising it correctly. And going against their precedent of giving out errata for free.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
It's been advertised as an update. All errata are technically updates, but not all updates are errata. There's enough ambiguity that it would be nice if they just told which it was.
1 hour until Dev Update. No cancellation as yet! I wonder what we, the 'vocal minority' in our 'echo chambers' will be told...
Gonna get my popcorn ready for this 🍿🍿🍿
10 to 1 odds on a cancellation...
Dev Update confirmed on Twitter! Should have taken that bet with you 😂
You'll almost certainly be told what we've been told already. 'We're working on it. I know that's a lame answer. But it is what it is.'
Otherwise, I suspect they would have announced it already. But who knows, maybe they are just crossing t's and dotting i's this morning. I wouldn't bet on it though. These things always take longer than it seems like they should from the outside.
AD
Totally, just a bit of tongue in cheek fun. :-) I'm certain they want answers as much as we do.
Pretend $10 bet that they either ignore it entirely or just say we’re waiting on more details from WoTC.
Fair points!
I am one of those who DOES NOT WANT the new changes. I don't want to lose the existing races from the character builder, and I don't want the new monster stats. I paid for X I want to use X.
This is not errata, it is new versions of old things, not corrections of existing things.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
They may ignore the problem, but they didn't ignore the product since they just advertised it.
It will not be considered arrata other than that they're not quite sure how they will be implementing it.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
They said that it will NOT replace current content
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I was working and got in right as they said "And that's enough of MMM". What did they say/not say?
Joe said "This will not replace my previously purchased content at D&D Beyond"
I'm sure there will be differences. Entirely different though? I'm just as sure everything will still be very recognizeable and familiar. It's not like scrapping the roleplaying suggestions or absolute alignment for beholders made any difference whatsoever to the species, after all...
That said, it appears these fears can now officially be put to rest. Whether anyone considers that the right call or the wrong one aside, at least we can move past that already. Good thing too, I was planning to set aside some time for the Tal'Dorei Reborn book that arrived in the mail today rather than to reiterate over and over again that both sides have a valid point and that it's unfortunate those points are irreconcilable.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].