Yep, the answer given was no content will be lost and he mentioned it was being treated as 'new content'.
The people who have the issue with this will be the ones who bought in to DDB's mantra of 'always updated to the latest version'. By clarifying it as 'new content', they can take this approach.
I'm one of the people who aren't happy with this decision but it is what it is and I fully expected them to take this path. I'll get over it of course 😂 At least now we know.
Now we know - M3 is its own thing, you won't lose your old bad books, you have to pay for the New Hotness, and Volo's Guide is still the worst 5e book ever released by a country mile. Customers are now able to make a reasonably informed decision on whether or not M3 is worth obtaining for their particular situation. That's all it took.
I guess one good thing for the way this all worked out is I can look at my physical copy and then decide if I want the digital resources of the new book. I normally preorder both and get them the same day.
Yeah, I think we can move on -- possibly even forgive -- but I'd caution against forgetting. Future releases, including The Big One in 2024, really need to be handled better than this.
Anyway, that's good to hear. Huzzah!
I'm probably skipping this book. I don't really see anything wrong with most of the content it's fixing. At least not anything that I can't easily fix with some free homebrewing. That may change after release, when more info comes out, but we'll see. I've bought more than enough material to be able to run excellent games already.
They also acknowledged the generic feature system (boons, blessings, etc), how it has been continuing in the background, and why it had to be partially sidelined for a while. Honestly, pretty good update, imo.
Now we know - M3 is its own thing, you won't lose your old bad books, you have to pay for the New Hotness, and Volo's Guide is still the worst 5e book ever released by a country mile. Customers are now able to make a reasonably informed decision on whether or not M3 is worth obtaining for their particular situation. That's all it took.
That's all it ever needed to take.
Freaking jeez.
Disagree, Volo's intoduced the gobbos to 5e and so that automatically makes it the best book by default. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is. xP
Hopefully that answer remains consistent for content updates in new books. I wish they treated other updates under the same title/book (errata) the same as updates in new books but as long as it stays consistent great I'm happy. 👍
If there are changes to how this will work in the future I hope they'll at least give us notice (WotC tells DDB so they can pass it on to us) prior to offering anything for purchase.
They also acknowledged the generic feature system (boons, blessings, etc), how it has been continuing in the background, and why it had to be partially sidelined for a while. Honestly, pretty good update, imo.
So they addressed everything that we complained about in this thread lol.
Now I just wish DDB would post this news on their front page and add a disclaimer to the store page. Information is split between the forums, social media, Discord, and YouTube but it never gets posted to the actual website... I would greatly prefer just to read this news as an article on the front page.
So, if I am understanding this correctly MMM is not going to fall under errata and that means that if I don't purchase it my current content will not be changed. What if I do purchase it? Will I have 2 versions? Or will there be a toggle like Tasha's content? Thanks in advance for any clarification. I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what they announced today.
The particulars of how this will all work have not been announced yet. What has been announced is the M3 will be considered its own, new content. if you own, as an example, the kobold species from Volo's Guide to DM Headaches, the new kobold in M3 will not override that stat block. You will be able to use the existing Volo's version of the kobold, and to use the M3 version you will need to purchase M3. Same with monster stat blocks, presumably. The how is foggy yet, as the book is still most of five months out and they haven't begun implementing it yet.
I wish they treated other updates under the same title/book (errata) the same as updates in new books but as long as it stays consistent great I'm happy. 👍
By treated the same way I assume you don't mean "have to be paid for". :p That aside though, just having dozens (and potentially hundreds) of optionals included in books everywhere isn't anything to get excited about, I think.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Thanks for trying to help clear it up. I guess it back to waiting for some more information from DnDB. I had hoped that today's Dev update would have been more helpful.
The particulars of how this will all work have not been announced yet. What has been announced is the M3 will be considered its own, new content. if you own, as an example, the kobold species from Volo's Guide to DM Headaches, the new kobold in M3 will not override that stat block. You will be able to use the existing Volo's version of the kobold, and to use the M3 version you will need to purchase M3. Same with monster stat blocks, presumably. The how is foggy yet, as the book is still most of five months out and they haven't begun implementing it yet.
Honestly, the how is the least of my concerns. Whether it's using toggles or asterisks or different names isn't going to change anything meaningful for me. Bottom line is: if there are two versions of something, you'll get to all the ones you paid for (or can access through sharing). The how is window dressing.
Thanks for trying to help clear it up. I guess it back to waiting for some more information from DnDB. I had hoped that today's Dev update would have been more helpful.
Honest question, because I just can't see it: what sort of info would include something that would meaningfully affect you or your game, beyond what we got?
I wish they treated other updates under the same title/book (errata) the same as updates in new books but as long as it stays consistent great I'm happy. 👍
By treated the same way I assume you don't mean "have to be paid for". :p That aside though, just having dozens (and potentially hundreds) of optionals included in books everywhere isn't anything to get excited about, I think.
Yeh, I guess I should have specified. Regardless of which decision they made with how this was to be implemented and regardless of if we have to pay for said updates I would have liked all updates to be treated the same. Either separate versions or archiving old content for both. I do know that's not how it works though.
For new books/"new content" updates as long as it's a single toggle and/or filter for each books content I don't see it being a problem. No more so than people having to copy it all into their homebrew collections before being archived. This decision also eliminates the extra storage required for all those homebrew copies. 👍
I also don't think it would take more work to add content rather then remove/archive and also add content despite the claims that it would. Now to do the backlog and change previous updates yes there would be more work but if it was done as it was happening it really wouldn't be more than the alternative.
Errata'd content in the text of books could be a simple as the video I posted in the other thread but I'll post it here again in the spoiler below. Again I would prefer this would have a single toggle (only have to code it once) to show/hide all together the errata dropdown/link in books. The errata link would only be visible with this toggle on and you'd still have to click it to see what the original was. Either tie this toggle into errata'd content in the tools as well or maybe one more filter/toggle for those. Still nothing crazy let alone dozens/hundreds.
No clutter, no extra work if done as updates are made, no extra storage space.
Now we know - M3 is its own thing, you won't lose your old bad books, you have to pay for the New Hotness, and Volo's Guide is still the worst 5e book ever released by a country mile. Customers are now able to make a reasonably informed decision on whether or not M3 is worth obtaining for their particular situation. That's all it took.
That's all it ever needed to take.
Freaking jeez.
Disagree, Volo's intoduced the gobbos to5e and so that automatically makes it the best book by default. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is. xP
Pangurjan: If we can toggle between the two versions it would make MMM more interesting to me. In general, I'm not sure I like some of the changes that WOTC has been making. I understand some of the reasons for the changes but I kind of like the "old stuff" For example I think that "floating ASIs" take all the individuality out of the various races. I don't want to start that discussion here but that is something I want the option to turn on and off. I have every book WOTC produced for 3E and would like to own all of 5E here on DnDB but I don't want to lose the "old stuff". So, I guess that is what I most want to hear from DnDB before I purchase. Because even now it seems that it is not clear if I buy MMM what will happen to the old versions.
Except that having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different, conflicting rulesets for every last change - an entirely separate version of the DDB digital toolset sharded off every time Wizards so much as fixes a spelling error in a book, the way folks like October are demanding - is the very definition of "clutter". It's egregiously unnecessary and deeply unhealthy for the business goals of both Wizards and DDB to have many hundreds of random variations of the 5e ruleset floating around being touted as The One True Official Version, and it'd also mean every DM has to spend dozens/hundreds of extra hours meticulously auditing and re-auditing their players' digital sheets to ensure they're using the exactly correct version number for all the various bitsies on their sheet - or troubleshooting what the issue is when two players get into a fight over a rule that was changed/errata'd on one player's sheet but not the other's.
It's a giant snarled tangled mess waiting to happen, which is why versioning/sharding is basically a Last Resort thing they do only when their other options are volcanically unpalatable. They have to keep versioning/sharding to a minimum or their digital toolset stops making sense and there's no more reason to bother using it or spending money on it.
Except that having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different, conflicting rulesets for every last change - an entirely separate version of the DDB digital toolset sharded off every time Wizards so much as fixes a spelling error in a book, the way folks like October are demanding - is the very definition of "clutter". It's egregiously unnecessary and deeply unhealthy for the business goals of both Wizards and DDB to have many hundreds of random variations of the 5e ruleset floating around being touted as The One True Official Version, and it'd also mean every DM has to spend dozens/hundreds of extra hours meticulously auditing and re-auditing their players' digital sheets to ensure they're using the exactly correct version number for all the various bitsies on their sheet - or troubleshooting what the issue is when two players get into a fight over a rule that was changed/errata'd on one player's sheet but not the other's.
It's a giant snarled tangled mess waiting to happen, which is why versioning/sharding is basically a Last Resort thing they do only when their other options are volcanically unpalatable. They have to keep versioning/sharding to a minimum or their digital toolset stops making sense and there's no more reason to bother using it or spending money on it.
I wasn't suggesting that in my post. Nor did I suggest sharding off. Having which rules you use that are older is no different than having a list of homebrew rules session 0. *shrug* I think the example I provided would have 0 clutter for those who didn't want the other options as nothing would change for them.
I'm curious to the hundred and hundreds of changes that keep being referenced. Has any single thing/line of text been changed that many times or are you referencing as a whole hundreds of things have?
I wish they treated other updates under the same title/book (errata) the same as updates in new books but as long as it stays consistent great I'm happy. 👍
By treated the same way I assume you don't mean "have to be paid for". :p That aside though, just having dozens (and potentially hundreds) of optionals included in books everywhere isn't anything to get excited about, I think.
Yeh, I guess I should have specified. Regardless of which decision they made with how this was to be implemented and regardless of if we have to pay for said updates I would have liked all updates to be treated the same. Either separate versions or archiving old content for both. I do know that's not how it works though.
For new books/"new content" updates as long as it's a single toggle and/or filter for each books content I don't see it being a problem. No more so than people having to copy it all into their homebrew collections before being archived. This decision also eliminates the extra storage required for all those homebrew copies. 👍
I also don't think it would take more work to add content rather then remove/archive and also add content despite the claims that it would. Now to do the backlog and change previous updates yes there would be more work but if it was done as it was happening it really wouldn't be more than the alternative.
Errata'd content in the text of books could be a simple as the video I posted in the other thread but I'll post it here again in the spoiler below. Again I would prefer this would have a single toggle (only have to code it once) to show/hide all together the errata dropdown/link in books. The errata link would only be visible with this toggle on and you'd still have to click it to see what the original was. Either tie this toggle into errata'd content in the tools as well or maybe one more filter/toggle for those. Still nothing crazy let along dozens/hundreds.
No clutter, no extra work if done as updates are made, no extra storage space.
I honestly think the video posted would be a great way to implement errata versioning on the site. Literally just copy-pasting the text from the errata PDF's and having that listed in the dropdown. Nothing more though. It is much more of a pipe dream to have DDB update their site to support every version of all the races, classes, spells, etc in the character builder and letting you roll off of it. Would get in the way of all the more important updates and would cause issues with everyone not being on the same patch. There's been plenty of times when someone turned on homebrew for my games and they gave themselves the "BOON OF SPEED" as a feat, when they definitely weren't supposed to have it and I didn't ask for them to turn homebrew on. If we actually had every patch version of everything such issues would get so, so much worse.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Yep, the answer given was no content will be lost and he mentioned it was being treated as 'new content'.
The people who have the issue with this will be the ones who bought in to DDB's mantra of 'always updated to the latest version'. By clarifying it as 'new content', they can take this approach.
I'm one of the people who aren't happy with this decision but it is what it is and I fully expected them to take this path. I'll get over it of course 😂 At least now we know.
See?
Question answered.
Was that really so hard, DDB?
Now we know - M3 is its own thing, you won't lose your old bad books, you have to pay for the New Hotness, and Volo's Guide is still the worst 5e book ever released by a country mile. Customers are now able to make a reasonably informed decision on whether or not M3 is worth obtaining for their particular situation. That's all it took.
That's all it ever needed to take.
Freaking jeez.
Please do not contact or message me.
I guess one good thing for the way this all worked out is I can look at my physical copy and then decide if I want the digital resources of the new book. I normally preorder both and get them the same day.
Yeah, I think we can move on -- possibly even forgive -- but I'd caution against forgetting. Future releases, including The Big One in 2024, really need to be handled better than this.
Anyway, that's good to hear. Huzzah!
I'm probably skipping this book. I don't really see anything wrong with most of the content it's fixing. At least not anything that I can't easily fix with some free homebrewing. That may change after release, when more info comes out, but we'll see. I've bought more than enough material to be able to run excellent games already.
They also acknowledged the generic feature system (boons, blessings, etc), how it has been continuing in the background, and why it had to be partially sidelined for a while. Honestly, pretty good update, imo.
Disagree, Volo's intoduced the gobbos to 5e and so that automatically makes it the best book by default. I don't make the rules, that's just the way it is. xP
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
I glad we got an answer.
Hopefully that answer remains consistent for content updates in new books. I wish they treated other updates under the same title/book (errata) the same as updates in new books but as long as it stays consistent great I'm happy. 👍
If there are changes to how this will work in the future I hope they'll at least give us notice (WotC tells DDB so they can pass it on to us) prior to offering anything for purchase.
So they addressed everything that we complained about in this thread lol.
Now I just wish DDB would post this news on their front page and add a disclaimer to the store page. Information is split between the forums, social media, Discord, and YouTube but it never gets posted to the actual website... I would greatly prefer just to read this news as an article on the front page.
Thanks
So, if I am understanding this correctly MMM is not going to fall under errata and that means that if I don't purchase it my current content will not be changed. What if I do purchase it? Will I have 2 versions? Or will there be a toggle like Tasha's content? Thanks in advance for any clarification. I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what they announced today.
The particulars of how this will all work have not been announced yet. What has been announced is the M3 will be considered its own, new content. if you own, as an example, the kobold species from Volo's Guide to DM Headaches, the new kobold in M3 will not override that stat block. You will be able to use the existing Volo's version of the kobold, and to use the M3 version you will need to purchase M3. Same with monster stat blocks, presumably. The how is foggy yet, as the book is still most of five months out and they haven't begun implementing it yet.
Please do not contact or message me.
By treated the same way I assume you don't mean "have to be paid for". :p That aside though, just having dozens (and potentially hundreds) of optionals included in books everywhere isn't anything to get excited about, I think.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Thanks for trying to help clear it up. I guess it back to waiting for some more information from DnDB. I had hoped that today's Dev update would have been more helpful.
Honestly, the how is the least of my concerns. Whether it's using toggles or asterisks or different names isn't going to change anything meaningful for me. Bottom line is: if there are two versions of something, you'll get to all the ones you paid for (or can access through sharing). The how is window dressing.
Honest question, because I just can't see it: what sort of info would include something that would meaningfully affect you or your game, beyond what we got?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Yeh, I guess I should have specified. Regardless of which decision they made with how this was to be implemented and regardless of if we have to pay for said updates I would have liked all updates to be treated the same. Either separate versions or archiving old content for both. I do know that's not how it works though.
For new books/"new content" updates as long as it's a single toggle and/or filter for each books content I don't see it being a problem. No more so than people having to copy it all into their homebrew collections before being archived. This decision also eliminates the extra storage required for all those homebrew copies. 👍
I also don't think it would take more work to add content rather then remove/archive and also add content despite the claims that it would. Now to do the backlog and change previous updates yes there would be more work but if it was done as it was happening it really wouldn't be more than the alternative.
Errata'd content in the text of books could be a simple as the video I posted in the other thread but I'll post it here again in the spoiler below. Again I would prefer this would have a single toggle (only have to code it once) to show/hide all together the errata dropdown/link in books. The errata link would only be visible with this toggle on and you'd still have to click it to see what the original was. Either tie this toggle into errata'd content in the tools as well or maybe one more filter/toggle for those. Still nothing crazy let alone dozens/hundreds.
No clutter, no extra work if done as updates are made, no extra storage space.
Planeshift laughs in corner.
My homebrew content: Monsters, subclasses, Magic items, Feats, spells, races, backgrounds
Pangurjan: If we can toggle between the two versions it would make MMM more interesting to me. In general, I'm not sure I like some of the changes that WOTC has been making. I understand some of the reasons for the changes but I kind of like the "old stuff" For example I think that "floating ASIs" take all the individuality out of the various races. I don't want to start that discussion here but that is something I want the option to turn on and off. I have every book WOTC produced for 3E and would like to own all of 5E here on DnDB but I don't want to lose the "old stuff". So, I guess that is what I most want to hear from DnDB before I purchase. Because even now it seems that it is not clear if I buy MMM what will happen to the old versions.
Except that having hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different, conflicting rulesets for every last change - an entirely separate version of the DDB digital toolset sharded off every time Wizards so much as fixes a spelling error in a book, the way folks like October are demanding - is the very definition of "clutter". It's egregiously unnecessary and deeply unhealthy for the business goals of both Wizards and DDB to have many hundreds of random variations of the 5e ruleset floating around being touted as The One True Official Version, and it'd also mean every DM has to spend dozens/hundreds of extra hours meticulously auditing and re-auditing their players' digital sheets to ensure they're using the exactly correct version number for all the various bitsies on their sheet - or troubleshooting what the issue is when two players get into a fight over a rule that was changed/errata'd on one player's sheet but not the other's.
It's a giant snarled tangled mess waiting to happen, which is why versioning/sharding is basically a Last Resort thing they do only when their other options are volcanically unpalatable. They have to keep versioning/sharding to a minimum or their digital toolset stops making sense and there's no more reason to bother using it or spending money on it.
Please do not contact or message me.
I wasn't suggesting that in my post. Nor did I suggest sharding off. Having which rules you use that are older is no different than having a list of homebrew rules session 0. *shrug* I think the example I provided would have 0 clutter for those who didn't want the other options as nothing would change for them.
I'm curious to the hundred and hundreds of changes that keep being referenced. Has any single thing/line of text been changed that many times or are you referencing as a whole hundreds of things have?
I honestly think the video posted would be a great way to implement errata versioning on the site. Literally just copy-pasting the text from the errata PDF's and having that listed in the dropdown. Nothing more though. It is much more of a pipe dream to have DDB update their site to support every version of all the races, classes, spells, etc in the character builder and letting you roll off of it. Would get in the way of all the more important updates and would cause issues with everyone not being on the same patch. There's been plenty of times when someone turned on homebrew for my games and they gave themselves the "BOON OF SPEED" as a feat, when they definitely weren't supposed to have it and I didn't ask for them to turn homebrew on. If we actually had every patch version of everything such issues would get so, so much worse.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
