Yeah, buying it won't change the way everything works. You may have noticed a lot of races, etc. Are listed as "legacy." Volo's and tome of foes are no longer going to be sold. You have them, you can still use them, but nobody will be able to buy them (until hopefully Wizards realizes their mistake). You get M3, you will still have access to the "legacy" content.
I honestly kind of wish they were actually replacing the content if you buy M3 so I could have a reason besides "I want to boycott your pandering" to cancel my preorder... I would much rather just homebrew the genasi changes...
They could have just continued selling everything and made the changes be variant races, but no.[REDACTED]
Volos and Tomb of Foes will still be sold as paper versions, WOTC is not stopping publishing those 2 books, DnD Beyond is delisting them, but, as has been commented throughout the internet this has caused concern about all the lore info that will no longer be available ot buy in DnD Beyond.
Do you have a source saying they will still continue being printed? I find it strange that they would stop all digital distribution (not just through D&D Beyond), but continue printing the physical books.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
It actually makes less sense for them to print the originals if they're pushing this as a replacement than continuing distribution of the digital copy. The physical printing costs them money. They want to sell this new version, so they want to stop selling the old version so people will buy the new version. Why would they spend money printing something they don't want to or expect to sell?
The fact that both books are available via Amazon and B&N (and my FFLGS) is an indicator that the physical books will be around for some time, I'm guessing at least through the next holiday season (maybe at discounts/clearance, or mark ups since they're not "collectors") items. WotC is not going to go through the expense of pulping the books that are in the supply chain, let alone recalling and pulping books already in retailers possession.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
I think you're missing how WotC is involved with physical distirbution, or rather how WotC isn't really involved once the books go off the printing presses and into shipping containers. There isn't a WotC warehouse. There are distributors who've already bought the stock (the books not Hasbro shares) or hold that stock for major retail stakeholders (Amazon, B&N who in some cases act as distributors themselves). Retailers have paid for the copies their stores currently have in stock. That's why WotC can't just make the books disappear with MMM "replaces" them. Will distributors try to liquidate the "de listed" books quickly? Maybe, but there's a whole secondary market for "collectors" books, FLGS who do more trade volume in that space on eBay to keep the lights on than they do regular sales at their physical stores etc (there's a whole sub industry, speaking as someone who developed a rolodex when I developed the Covid hobby of tracking down some out of print games). And all that will or at least may happen because there's really no point in recalling and pulping the delisted. Publishers only do that if something on the par with literal criminal conduct happened during the writing or publication of the book that the publisher wasn't aware of.
It's also no secret that MMM is the way WotC will be stat blocking monsters going forward, they did their own written and video press on this plus it's been in the churn of game journalism since pretty much the book was announced with the gift set. There's nothing wrong with maintaining a preference for older edition books at your table. There's also nothing particularly noble in it either. Yet we have I don't know how many threads on this board with folks planting flags, though it seems more a secret war unknown or irrelevant to most players judging from broader board traffic here and elsewhere.
Out of curiosity, I just learned that my FLGS has 3 copies of Volo's sitting on its shelf and sees no problem getting more in the foreseeable future. They also have 8 copies of the Monster Card set WotC put out of the Volo's monsters. On Ebay it lists for $300-700 ... oh wait, psych, that's the limited edition cover from back when it first came out. The actual Volo's is currently selling on eBay for $16-$35, with a lot of sellers having upward of 20 copies. Some folks may want Volo's and MToF to be the TTRPG versions of Samizdat, but it's just not the case.
You can find OD&D through 4e in DMsGuild too. Wonder if we'll be seeing these forbidden texts in that marketplace soon too.
The fact that both books are available via Amazon and B&N (and my FFLGS) is an indicator that the physical books will be around for some time, I'm guessing at least through the next holiday season (maybe at discounts/clearance, or mark ups since they're not "collectors") items. WotC is not going to go through the expense of pulping the books that are in the supply chain, let alone recalling and pulping books already in retailers possession.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
I think you're missing how WotC is involved with physical distirbution, or rather how WotC isn't really involved once the books go off the printing presses and into shipping containers. There isn't a WotC warehouse. There are distributors who've already bought the stock (the books not Hasbro shares) or hold that stock for major retail stakeholders (Amazon, B&N who in some cases act as distributors themselves). Retailers have paid for the copies their stores currently have in stock. That's why WotC can't just make the books disappear with MMM "replaces" them. Will distributors try to liquidate the "de listed" books quickly, maybe, but there's a whole secondary market for "collectors" books, FLGS who do more trade volume in that space on eBay to keep the lights on than they do regular sales at their physical stores etc (there's a whole sub industry, speaking as someone who developed a rolodex when I developed the Covid hobby of tracking down some out of print games).
It's also no secret that MMM is the way WotC will be stat blocking monsters going forward, they did their own written and video press on this plus it's been in the churn of game journalism since pretty much the book was announced with the gift set. There's nothing wrong with maintaining a preference for older edition books at your table. There's also nothing particularly noble in it either. Yet we have I don't know how many threads on this board with folks planting flags, though it seems more a secret war unknown or irrelevant to most players judging from broader board traffic here and elsewhere.
"You're wrong. Now let me use more words to explain exactly what you said."
The person you replied to never said anything about them pulling unsold copies. All that was said was that it's unlikely that they will print more, so when they're sold out, they're sold out.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
It actually makes less sense for them to print the originals if they're pushing this as a replacement than continuing distribution of the digital copy. The physical printing costs them money. They want to sell this new version, so they want to stop selling the old version so people will buy the new version. Why would they spend money printing something they don't want to or expect to sell?
So here's some insight as to how often WotC actually prints books. Has anyone seen a copy of Volo's with either the revised racial modifiers to abilities that took away negative modifiers OR seen a copy of Volo's with lore edits/removals that were so controversial a few months ago? I got my copy of Volo's a year after the racial modifier changes and it wasn't reflected in the text. The idea that WotC is constantly churning out books just doesn't connect with how books are actually physically produced and distributed. There is an existing stock of both books available for retail, my guess is they likely won't become scarce until 2024, to pick a random year.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
It actually makes less sense for them to print the originals if they're pushing this as a replacement than continuing distribution of the digital copy. The physical printing costs them money. They want to sell this new version, so they want to stop selling the old version so people will buy the new version. Why would they spend money printing something they don't want to or expect to sell?
So here's some insight as to how often WotC actually prints books. Has anyone seen a copy of Volo's with either the revised racial modifiers to abilities that took away negative modifiers OR seen a copy of Volo's with lore edits/removals that were so controversial a few months ago? I got my copy of Volo's a year after the racial modifier changes and it wasn't reflected in the text. The idea that WotC is constantly churning out books just doesn't connect with how books are actually physically produced and distributed. There is an existing stock of both books available for retail, my guess is they likely won't become scarce until 2024, to pick a random year.
And nobody gave a date on when they will be gone from your particular local game store. Some stores may buy three copies and never sell them all. Others may sell a dozen or more each week and regularly need to order more. The fact of the matter is you're trying to argue with people who agree with you. Why?
The fact that both books are available via Amazon and B&N (and my FFLGS) is an indicator that the physical books will be around for some time, I'm guessing at least through the next holiday season (maybe at discounts/clearance, or mark ups since they're not "collectors") items. WotC is not going to go through the expense of pulping the books that are in the supply chain, let alone recalling and pulping books already in retailers possession.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
I think you're missing how WotC is involved with physical distirbution, or rather how WotC isn't really involved once the books go off the printing presses and into shipping containers. There isn't a WotC warehouse. There are distributors who've already bought the stock (the books not Hasbro shares) or hold that stock for major retail stakeholders (Amazon, B&N who in some cases act as distributors themselves). Retailers have paid for the copies their stores currently have in stock. That's why WotC can't just make the books disappear with MMM "replaces" them. Will distributors try to liquidate the "de listed" books quickly? Maybe, but there's a whole secondary market for "collectors" books, FLGS who do more trade volume in that space on eBay to keep the lights on than they do regular sales at their physical stores etc (there's a whole sub industry, speaking as someone who developed a rolodex when I developed the Covid hobby of tracking down some out of print games). And all that will or at least may happen because there's really no point in recalling and pulping the delisted. Publishers only do that if something on the par with literal criminal conduct happened during the writing or publication of the book that the publisher wasn't aware of.
It's also no secret that MMM is the way WotC will be stat blocking monsters going forward, they did their own written and video press on this plus it's been in the churn of game journalism since pretty much the book was announced with the gift set. There's nothing wrong with maintaining a preference for older edition books at your table. There's also nothing particularly noble in it either. Yet we have I don't know how many threads on this board with folks planting flags, though it seems more a secret war unknown or irrelevant to most players judging from broader board traffic here and elsewhere.
Out of curiosity, I just learned that my FLGS has 3 copies of Volo's sitting on its shelf and sees no problem getting more in the foreseeable future. They also have 8 copies of the Monster Card set WotC put out of the Volo's monsters. On Ebay it lists for $300-700 ... oh wait, psych, that's the limited edition cover from back when it first came out. The actual Volo's is currently selling on eBay for $16-$35, with a lot of sellers having upward of 20 copies. Some folks may want Volo's and MToF to be the TTRPG versions of Samizdat, but it's just not the case.
You can find OD&D through 4e in DMsGuild too. Wonder if we'll be seeing these forbidden texts in that marketplace soon too.
I have no issues with the layout of the book or the way they combined the monsters, my concern is in the lore that has been written and will no longer be available and wizards seeming refusal to tell us what’s happening with that.
Will we see it repacked one a series of books, copy pasted across, will they make that lore available to buy through DND beyond. There has been a complete lack of communication here about that. For me that is the concern.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Do you have a source saying they will still continue being printed? I find it strange that they would stop all digital distribution (not just through D&D Beyond), but continue printing the physical books.
Apparently, WotC hasn't said anything about physical copies. It makes sense that they would send it out of print, but they haven't said so (or that they won't, for that matter).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WotC want M3 to replace VGtM and MToF, so it makes sense that they would just not reprint them after the current print-run sells out. It is logical. If they aren't going to sell them on DDB, then they are okay with giving up that revenue stream online, they would equally be okay with giving up the physical revenue stream. It makes NO sense to keep one but not the other. This is intentional on their part to erase VGtM ad MToF and replace it with M3. In addition, you can surely bet that any new products that include monsters will be done like M3 with special powers, etc.
I won't be buying any new D&D products that aren't story or lore-based.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
It actually makes less sense for them to print the originals if they're pushing this as a replacement than continuing distribution of the digital copy. The physical printing costs them money. They want to sell this new version, so they want to stop selling the old version so people will buy the new version. Why would they spend money printing something they don't want to or expect to sell?
The fact that both books are available via Amazon and B&N (and my FFLGS) is an indicator that the physical books will be around for some time, I'm guessing at least through the next holiday season (maybe at discounts/clearance, or mark ups since they're not "collectors") items. WotC is not going to go through the expense of pulping the books that are in the supply chain, let alone recalling and pulping books already in retailers possession.
I think you're missing how WotC is involved with physical distirbution, or rather how WotC isn't really involved once the books go off the printing presses and into shipping containers. There isn't a WotC warehouse. There are distributors who've already bought the stock (the books not Hasbro shares) or hold that stock for major retail stakeholders (Amazon, B&N who in some cases act as distributors themselves). Retailers have paid for the copies their stores currently have in stock. That's why WotC can't just make the books disappear with MMM "replaces" them. Will distributors try to liquidate the "de listed" books quickly? Maybe, but there's a whole secondary market for "collectors" books, FLGS who do more trade volume in that space on eBay to keep the lights on than they do regular sales at their physical stores etc (there's a whole sub industry, speaking as someone who developed a rolodex when I developed the Covid hobby of tracking down some out of print games). And all that will or at least may happen because there's really no point in recalling and pulping the delisted. Publishers only do that if something on the par with literal criminal conduct happened during the writing or publication of the book that the publisher wasn't aware of.
It's also no secret that MMM is the way WotC will be stat blocking monsters going forward, they did their own written and video press on this plus it's been in the churn of game journalism since pretty much the book was announced with the gift set. There's nothing wrong with maintaining a preference for older edition books at your table. There's also nothing particularly noble in it either. Yet we have I don't know how many threads on this board with folks planting flags, though it seems more a secret war unknown or irrelevant to most players judging from broader board traffic here and elsewhere.
Out of curiosity, I just learned that my FLGS has 3 copies of Volo's sitting on its shelf and sees no problem getting more in the foreseeable future. They also have 8 copies of the Monster Card set WotC put out of the Volo's monsters. On Ebay it lists for $300-700 ... oh wait, psych, that's the limited edition cover from back when it first came out. The actual Volo's is currently selling on eBay for $16-$35, with a lot of sellers having upward of 20 copies. Some folks may want Volo's and MToF to be the TTRPG versions of Samizdat, but it's just not the case.
You can find OD&D through 4e in DMsGuild too. Wonder if we'll be seeing these forbidden texts in that marketplace soon too.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
"You're wrong. Now let me use more words to explain exactly what you said."
The person you replied to never said anything about them pulling unsold copies. All that was said was that it's unlikely that they will print more, so when they're sold out, they're sold out.
So here's some insight as to how often WotC actually prints books. Has anyone seen a copy of Volo's with either the revised racial modifiers to abilities that took away negative modifiers OR seen a copy of Volo's with lore edits/removals that were so controversial a few months ago? I got my copy of Volo's a year after the racial modifier changes and it wasn't reflected in the text. The idea that WotC is constantly churning out books just doesn't connect with how books are actually physically produced and distributed. There is an existing stock of both books available for retail, my guess is they likely won't become scarce until 2024, to pick a random year.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
And nobody gave a date on when they will be gone from your particular local game store. Some stores may buy three copies and never sell them all. Others may sell a dozen or more each week and regularly need to order more. The fact of the matter is you're trying to argue with people who agree with you. Why?
I have no issues with the layout of the book or the way they combined the monsters, my concern is in the lore that has been written and will no longer be available and wizards seeming refusal to tell us what’s happening with that.
Will we see it repacked one a series of books, copy pasted across, will they make that lore available to buy through DND beyond. There has been a complete lack of communication here about that. For me that is the concern.